I dont think it is fair to predict a games quality prior to release, unless you have worked on the game.
Will it leave up to the hype, absolutely not, will it be successful, as mentioned it has already gone gold, it has been worked on by a company (gearbox) that is not only familiar with, but has a vested emotional interest in the success of the game.
borderlands (81)
brothers in arms, road to hill 30 (87) earned in blood (84) hells highway (79)
they have also worked on half life and counter strike. (metacritic scores)
they seem to have a really good grasp on this FPS thing, and im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at least until i can play the demo and have something to compare my unfound hopes and dreams too.
I dont think it is fair to predict a games quality prior to release, unless you have worked on the game.
Will it leave up to the hype, absolutely not, will it be successful, as mentioned it has already gone gold, it has been worked on by a company (gearbox) that is not only familiar with, but has a vested emotional interest in the success of the game.
borderlands (81)
brothers in arms, road to hill 30 (87) earned in blood (84) hells highway (79)
they have also worked on half life and counter strike. (metacritic scores)
they seem to have a really good grasp on this FPS thing, and im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at least until i can play the demo and have something to compare my unfound hopes and dreams too.
See, I'm not going to buy the game based on the hype, I'm buying it because I now know exactly what I'm going to be getting from it:
MORE DUKE!!!
That fact alone will make me happy with my purchase.
DNF is going to be so mediocre, but nobody will be willing to admit it...
That's odd, I've seen quite the contrary. I've read a lot of people's comments, both here in this forum and in talk-back sections for other sites, that pretty much expect a mediocre game. "Fun to re-live but not worth the wait and quickly forgettable" is the gist of what I usually see as an expectation.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the game to be a fantastically presented, humorous story inside a challenging and groundbreaking game for a dozen and a half hours, but I think we can all agree that the reality is any game frankenstein'ed together by a 3rd party, after such a tumultuous development cycle by the original developers is going to have many flaws.
Being in the older "buying the game purely on nostalgia" crowd, a lot of those rough edges will be forgiven, but most certainly not ignored.
Decoy on
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
As someone interested in Duke from a nostalgic perspective, my primary worry about the game is that over the past few years Duke has developed a nasty case of consolitis.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
TetraNitroCubane on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
As someone interested in Duke from a nostalgic perspective, my primary worry about the game is that over the past few years Duke has developed a nasty case of consolitis.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
When it was at 3D Realms, it was PC only, when it came to Gearbox it went multi-platform. 90% of the game was done when handed over, so it was technically PC-minded at first.
At the same time, considering the simplicity of the actual controls of Duke Nukem 3D, which stood in contrast with unusually complex (even by many of today's standards) environments...I don't think "consolitis" is something to worry about when applied to a Duke game, at least in this area.
Hell, Duke only has two postures: standing and action-movie crouch. It's pretty simple already, in those respects. Hell, do we know if DNF is actually going to have alternate fires or reloading, much less complex things common to console games like fire selection.
As someone interested in Duke from a nostalgic perspective, my primary worry about the game is that over the past few years Duke has developed a nasty case of consolitis.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
My big concern is some of the known features, like weapon juggling. Also afraid that the levels won't be 90's-style labyrinths but corridors in a line with some BioShock back-tracking.
Otherwise, I expect we'll get some good raunchy humour, throw some turds, punch some alien nuts, and then forget the game happened while waiting for the next Duke Nukem game.
Man, personally I am psyched for the release of this. Less then a year ago if you would have told people that DNF is coming out in 2011 people would think your crazy. I have one small problem with many of the gameplay show-off footage though.
I am not one to usually complain that the graphics of something look awful, and while I am not saying that DNF doesnt look pretty in the graphics department, Some effects (Mostly things such as gibs or duke stepping on a shrunk baddie) look kinda... Naff. I should mention that of course graphics arnt everything, yet when watching a trailer its one of the few things you can actually focus on as opposed to more important things like level design and actual gameplay. Im not seeing any little puddles of blood when the shrink ray is demonstrated for example
Still, I have my BOSE preorder ready and I am counting down the days until its release
At this point the game could look like it was created in the Build engine for all I care about it's graphics. I really just hope it delivers in the gameplay and personality department.
The level design is key for me as well. Duke Nukem should not be a corridor shooter. Bioshock came close enough to being fully developed levels to make it painfully obvious where they stopped short.
Anyone else seen Duke Nudem? It's incredibly NSFW, so I won't link to it, but a quick Google will turn it up. It's a shooting gallery, if you win you get topless girls. As funny as it is, I have to say it's pretty embarrassing.
Chris FOM on
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TetraNitroCubaneThe DjinneratorAt the bottom of a bottleRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
Like I said, consolitis is a minor concern for me. When I refer to the influence of consoles, I'm mainly puzzled about the fact that Duke can only carry two weapons (instead of the freaking arsenal he used to have), and seems to now have regenerating health. If the game were to introduce cover-based shooting as a major mechanic, I'd be even more concerned. Duke don't need no chest-high walls. And even if it was PC centric to begin with, I distinctly remember some footage leaked from the 3D Realms days had 360 button prompts on screen, so I think there was a shift to console release prior to Gearbox's involvement.
Don't get me wrong. I'm still buying the game, and console influence remains a very minor concern. I'm in it for the classic Duke stylings that we all know and love. Hell, I'd probably wind up buying it if it turned out to be a Tetris clone, where for every line you clear, Jon St. John would utter some new Dukeism. I'm that shamelessly tuned into the nostalgia.
regenerating health is something all game sshould have regardless of console or PC, but I am annoyed about the limited weapons thing, it just seems stupid. Can you at least HAVE like 10 weapons at a time but you have to equip 2? Or can you only ever have 2?
Anyone else seen Duke Nudem? It's incredibly NSFW, so I won't link to it, but a quick Google will turn it up. It's a shooting gallery, if you win you get topless girls. As funny as it is, I have to say it's pretty embarrassing.
You should see the old duke porn parody where you walk around with penis-cannons trying to fuck things. It is called Duke Screw'em
This is an actual thing
Zzulu on
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
regenerating health is something all game sshould have regardless of console or PC, but I am annoyed about the limited weapons thing, it just seems stupid. Can you at least HAVE like 10 weapons at a time but you have to equip 2? Or can you only ever have 2?
All games? Action RPGs? Survival Horror games?
I appreciate that regenerating health certainly has helped streamline a good many things in today's games, but there is still a place for the risk and tension that comes with a non-regenerative health system. Whether or not that works with the way this new Duke game plays, that remains to be seen.
Regenerating health is for assbutts. I remember getting Goldeneye 007 for christmas and being amazed a developer had the balls to make a game where health loss was 100% permanent (within each level).
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Regenerating health is for assbutts. I remember getting Goldeneye 007 for christmas and being amazed a developer had the balls to make a game where health loss was 100% permanent (within each level).
And, just like grunge rock, it was thankfully left in the 90s
Meh. Regnerating health makes for dull gameplay. Medical supplies make for the best systems. I'd like to see more games take the FarCry 2 approach to first aiding yourself.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
As someone interested in Duke from a nostalgic perspective, my primary worry about the game is that over the past few years Duke has developed a nasty case of consolitis.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
When it was at 3D Realms, it was PC only, when it came to Gearbox it went multi-platform. 90% of the game was done when handed over, so it was technically PC-minded at first.
When 3DR restarted the project in 2007, it was spec'd out with a 360 version in mind.
Gearbox is just finishing the 360 port that 3DR started.
As someone interested in Duke from a nostalgic perspective, my primary worry about the game is that over the past few years Duke has developed a nasty case of consolitis.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
When it was at 3D Realms, it was PC only, when it came to Gearbox it went multi-platform. 90% of the game was done when handed over, so it was technically PC-minded at first.
When 3DR restarted the project in 2007, it was spec'd out with a 360 version in mind.
Gearbox is just finishing the 360 port that 3DR started.
I just gotta wonder, We know there were at least 3 diffrent big reversions of DNF (1997, 2001 and 2007-2011) but I personally wonder what was going on in the intervening time between the 2001 version and the "Restart" in 07.
There was an old interview that basically explained what was happening, and was discussed in the previous gigantic Duke thread. Broussard is a perfectionist, and even after they would finish a level or feature and be ready to move on, a game would have a neat new thing that he'd also like to have, or he'd not like a little thing in a level, and would have the artist trash the entire thing and start over.
But people wouldn't tell George "no, live with it and move on to the next milestone".
Then they finally hired a producer in about late 2006 / early 2007 who actually started telling George "no" and this is why it was actually almost about to come out before Take2 tried to play legal games with it. Because this producer was actually forcing George to accept that a level was done and move on to the next one.
Regenerating health is for assbutts. I remember getting Goldeneye 007 for christmas and being amazed a developer had the balls to make a game where health loss was 100% permanent (within each level).
And, just like grunge rock, it was thankfully left in the 90s
I seriously would be very, very sad if regenerating health became standard in every game.
EDIT: I mean, there isn't anything WRONG with regenerating health, but there's also nothing wrong with healing through healthpacks and whatnot. They both offer different kinds of strategy and gameplay. I'd be saddened if the "Okay, I'm low on health and need to get to that healthpack over there before the badguys get a bead on me." scenerio was dropped forever for "Okay, I'm low on health, let me hide behind this chest-high wall for 5 seconds. Okay, all better."
True, having to chose between two weapons does not work for all games, though at the same time, there are quite a few games that I'm glad have imposed weapons limitations, particularly survival and survival horror games.
Also, regenerating health and weapon limits didn't start with consoles. "Consolization" is just a fucking boogeyman that PC gamers have invented to rationalize why they don't like a game they bought for their PC.
A game with regen health is designed around regen health. A game with healthpacks is designed around healtpacks. A game with lean is designed and balanced with lean in mind, a game without jumping doesn't take jumping into consideration for level design, etc. Regen health would totally break Perfect Dark, but healthpacks in regen-health FPSes would make them into trial-and-error games or they'd just dump a bunch of healtpacks on you after each encounter to keep you going, so might as well cut the middle man out on those games.
We even have a game with a multiplayer mode (Halo: Reach) where one side (Spartans) has to use healthpacks to get all their health back, but the other side (Elites) slowly regen all their health. The downside for Elites is they cannot pick up health packs so they can't bail themselves out by running up to a wall and grabbing one to instantly bring their health back and shields, they have to back out of combat and wait.
True, there may be some devs that just slap in regen health or two weapon limits because GAME_X did it (and not understanding WHY the game did it, and not understanding that it has nothing to do with why GAME_X was successful). But they're a minority.
Heck, I've already heard enough bitching from PC gamers that they didn't like carrying around 20 guns in Perfect Dark because they didn't like using a quick rose-select system to choose them.
FyreWulff on
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CaptainGanzSalt Lake City, UtahRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
Why are we all concerned that this game has regenerating health?
It's already confirmed to be health packs + "Ego Boosting" actions.
In first person shooters regenerating health when handled correctly is pretty much the way to go. It means you rely on strategy and tactics not just happening to stumble across some healthpack on the floor.
In first person shooters regenerating health when handled correctly is pretty much the way to go. It means you rely on strategy and tactics not just happening to stumble across some healthpack on the floor.
I could easily say exactly the opposite thing: that healthpacks, when handled correctly are the way to go, since it means you need to rely on strategy and tactics and not just hiding behind behind a column for five seconds every time you take a serious amount of damage.
In first person shooters regenerating health when handled correctly is pretty much the way to go. It means you rely on strategy and tactics not just happening to stumble across some healthpack on the floor.
Actually, theres stratagy in both.
With health packs (I play ALOT of old FPS games. Mostly shitty ones) it puts extra emphasis first on dodging slow moving projectiles or saving health, or using only thoose mega health packs when you need them. Plus some of the more iconi and masochistic FPS moves like the rocket jump loose their sting. Its also somewhat more (but not by much, mind you) realistic if I may say so. Wounds, especially larger ones, take a while to heal.
For Duke on the other hand, Regenerating health only makes too much sense. He is after all, Duke.
Oh yeah, I should point out I have no issues with Duke have regenerating health. (Hell, I could be persuaded to have regenerating ammo with the Dukester.) I'm just arguing against the idea that regenerating health is either the "correct" way of doing things, or that a finite health system is in some way outdated or bad.
Undead Scottsman on
0
Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
Posts
Will it leave up to the hype, absolutely not, will it be successful, as mentioned it has already gone gold, it has been worked on by a company (gearbox) that is not only familiar with, but has a vested emotional interest in the success of the game.
borderlands (81)
brothers in arms, road to hill 30 (87) earned in blood (84) hells highway (79)
they have also worked on half life and counter strike. (metacritic scores)
they seem to have a really good grasp on this FPS thing, and im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at least until i can play the demo and have something to compare my unfound hopes and dreams too.
See, I'm not going to buy the game based on the hype, I'm buying it because I now know exactly what I'm going to be getting from it:
MORE DUKE!!!
That fact alone will make me happy with my purchase.
That's odd, I've seen quite the contrary. I've read a lot of people's comments, both here in this forum and in talk-back sections for other sites, that pretty much expect a mediocre game. "Fun to re-live but not worth the wait and quickly forgettable" is the gist of what I usually see as an expectation.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love for the game to be a fantastically presented, humorous story inside a challenging and groundbreaking game for a dozen and a half hours, but I think we can all agree that the reality is any game frankenstein'ed together by a 3rd party, after such a tumultuous development cycle by the original developers is going to have many flaws.
Being in the older "buying the game purely on nostalgia" crowd, a lot of those rough edges will be forgiven, but most certainly not ignored.
But that's a pretty minor worry, because so long as the writing, quips, and crude humor are true to classic Duke form, I'll be getting what I want. My expectations are not high.
When it was at 3D Realms, it was PC only, when it came to Gearbox it went multi-platform. 90% of the game was done when handed over, so it was technically PC-minded at first.
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Hell, Duke only has two postures: standing and action-movie crouch. It's pretty simple already, in those respects. Hell, do we know if DNF is actually going to have alternate fires or reloading, much less complex things common to console games like fire selection.
So that was what they were waiting for. That's why they delayed it. They wanted to make sure the world didn't end on the weekend.
My big concern is some of the known features, like weapon juggling. Also afraid that the levels won't be 90's-style labyrinths but corridors in a line with some BioShock back-tracking.
Otherwise, I expect we'll get some good raunchy humour, throw some turds, punch some alien nuts, and then forget the game happened while waiting for the next Duke Nukem game.
Truly, this is our final hour.
I am not one to usually complain that the graphics of something look awful, and while I am not saying that DNF doesnt look pretty in the graphics department, Some effects (Mostly things such as gibs or duke stepping on a shrunk baddie) look kinda... Naff. I should mention that of course graphics arnt everything, yet when watching a trailer its one of the few things you can actually focus on as opposed to more important things like level design and actual gameplay. Im not seeing any little puddles of blood when the shrink ray is demonstrated for example
Still, I have my BOSE preorder ready and I am counting down the days until its release
Steam ID: slashx000______Twitter: @bill_at_zeboyd______ Facebook: Zeboyd Games
Xbox | x Dredgen Yor x |
Don't get me wrong. I'm still buying the game, and console influence remains a very minor concern. I'm in it for the classic Duke stylings that we all know and love. Hell, I'd probably wind up buying it if it turned out to be a Tetris clone, where for every line you clear, Jon St. John would utter some new Dukeism. I'm that shamelessly tuned into the nostalgia.
You should see the old duke porn parody where you walk around with penis-cannons trying to fuck things. It is called Duke Screw'em
This is an actual thing
All games? Action RPGs? Survival Horror games?
I appreciate that regenerating health certainly has helped streamline a good many things in today's games, but there is still a place for the risk and tension that comes with a non-regenerative health system. Whether or not that works with the way this new Duke game plays, that remains to be seen.
And, just like grunge rock, it was thankfully left in the 90s
Twitter
But you do it between your toes to hide the track marks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWjoadyb2Eg&feature=related
I mean, who doesn't want to play a game where you cauterise your own festering wound with a cigar?
When 3DR restarted the project in 2007, it was spec'd out with a 360 version in mind.
Gearbox is just finishing the 360 port that 3DR started.
I just gotta wonder, We know there were at least 3 diffrent big reversions of DNF (1997, 2001 and 2007-2011) but I personally wonder what was going on in the intervening time between the 2001 version and the "Restart" in 07.
Food for thought?
But people wouldn't tell George "no, live with it and move on to the next milestone".
Then they finally hired a producer in about late 2006 / early 2007 who actually started telling George "no" and this is why it was actually almost about to come out before Take2 tried to play legal games with it. Because this producer was actually forcing George to accept that a level was done and move on to the next one.
Farcry 2 was funny because it was Wolverine style regeneration. No just snapping your thumb back will not fix a broken thumb.
I never asked for this!
hey, HEY!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY
I seriously would be very, very sad if regenerating health became standard in every game.
EDIT: I mean, there isn't anything WRONG with regenerating health, but there's also nothing wrong with healing through healthpacks and whatnot. They both offer different kinds of strategy and gameplay. I'd be saddened if the "Okay, I'm low on health and need to get to that healthpack over there before the badguys get a bead on me." scenerio was dropped forever for "Okay, I'm low on health, let me hide behind this chest-high wall for 5 seconds. Okay, all better."
A game with regen health is designed around regen health. A game with healthpacks is designed around healtpacks. A game with lean is designed and balanced with lean in mind, a game without jumping doesn't take jumping into consideration for level design, etc. Regen health would totally break Perfect Dark, but healthpacks in regen-health FPSes would make them into trial-and-error games or they'd just dump a bunch of healtpacks on you after each encounter to keep you going, so might as well cut the middle man out on those games.
We even have a game with a multiplayer mode (Halo: Reach) where one side (Spartans) has to use healthpacks to get all their health back, but the other side (Elites) slowly regen all their health. The downside for Elites is they cannot pick up health packs so they can't bail themselves out by running up to a wall and grabbing one to instantly bring their health back and shields, they have to back out of combat and wait.
True, there may be some devs that just slap in regen health or two weapon limits because GAME_X did it (and not understanding WHY the game did it, and not understanding that it has nothing to do with why GAME_X was successful). But they're a minority.
Heck, I've already heard enough bitching from PC gamers that they didn't like carrying around 20 guns in Perfect Dark because they didn't like using a quick rose-select system to choose them.
It's already confirmed to be health packs + "Ego Boosting" actions.
And like Hitman, I don't think one should be penalized for wanting to immediately go to a section of a level.
I could easily say exactly the opposite thing: that healthpacks, when handled correctly are the way to go, since it means you need to rely on strategy and tactics and not just hiding behind behind a column for five seconds every time you take a serious amount of damage.
Actually, theres stratagy in both.
With health packs (I play ALOT of old FPS games. Mostly shitty ones) it puts extra emphasis first on dodging slow moving projectiles or saving health, or using only thoose mega health packs when you need them. Plus some of the more iconi and masochistic FPS moves like the rocket jump loose their sting. Its also somewhat more (but not by much, mind you) realistic if I may say so. Wounds, especially larger ones, take a while to heal.
For Duke on the other hand, Regenerating health only makes too much sense. He is after all, Duke.
Ok that I did not know. Cheers
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