[ChemistryOn!] SpaceChem! Demo on Steam, good for four hours.

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  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    subedii wrote: »
    I think this is the only game I've ever played where upon completing a level I feel awesome, then I see how everyone else did and I'm right back to feeling stupid again.

    That's the beauty of it. Getting a solution is just the beginning. Those top solutions have likely been optimized, several times over.

    Hopefully, I can do better this year. At least I'll be able to get in on this one from the start.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    !!

    Hey @MrBlarney - thanks for the heads up on this (from ahava)

    Time to see if we can SpaceChem like we did at PAX last year =P

    Edit:

    Also, obfuscation challenge?!

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Oh, absolutely. It might be nice to see how we all do as a group over here.

    ContentContext, looks like you would have probably made top 16 last year if you had been in from the start... I mostly only got my rank going into the closed tournament last time due to the fact I submitted something for every challenge.

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  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I haven't played in ages either. Might be a good excuse to fire it up again.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    That's the spirit. I was a little worried about the number of puzzles per week, but it seems alright, so far. The real test will be when the difficulty ramps up. Also, I kind of miss being able to read the SA thread. Seeing people boast about their cycle/symbol ranges made me take harder looks at my solutions.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Hmmmmm - well, my first blush at Fructose Factory gives <150 cycles using <30 symbols.

    Looking at the weird waldo paths I've got, I'm sure the number of symbols can definitely go down - I also have a feeling that the cycles can go down if I nut at it more, but I think for now, I'll move on.

    Edit:

    Hahaha, I didn't notice Misfortune Modifier's 33%/33%/33% random placement until now

    Well played, sirs, well played.

    Edit 2:

    Alrighty

    Misfortune Modifier (for speed) <120 cycles @ < 30 symbols

    Edit 3:

    Rounded numbers re: feedback

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    You might not want to get too specific on your counts. Information like that gives people a hard target to shoot for.

  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Oops, double post.

    ContentContext on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Whoops - I see your point.

    I'm not particularly fussed about those two solutions, since I have a feeling that they can definitely be improved on.

    Working on Sun Simulator right now, but have to leave the house!

    Once I get back, I'll finish the warm ups, and get on to the challenge!

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    The general guideline, if you want to talk about cycle/symbol counts, is to use rounded numbers, like "sub-150 cycles" for example for your Fructose Factory solution. As far as the SA thread goes, there hasn't been any benchmark talk so far, but then again it is still quite early in the solving period.

    So far, I'm very pleased with the quality of the puzzles in the first set. Considering the creativity of these puzzles, I'm afraid to think of what will come up in the rest of the open tournament.

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  • csuzwcsuzw Registered User regular
    I seem to be terrible at optimising for cycles but tend to naturally create solutions with low symbol counts. Got solutions in for all now but the only 1 I'm really happy with is my challenge solution and that's only because I think it's elegant, I doubt it'll come close to the best solutions on cycles or symbols.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    csuzw wrote: »
    I seem to be terrible at optimising for cycles but tend to naturally create solutions with low symbol counts. Got solutions in for all now but the only 1 I'm really happy with is my challenge solution and that's only because I think it's elegant, I doubt it'll come close to the best solutions on cycles or symbols.

    I am the exact opposite.

    I am perfectly happen to throw symbols at a problem just to make the solution go that extra cycle faster.

    There we go - Sun Simulator - < 140 cycles @ < 40 symbols

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    Looks like I need to shave off some cycles on a few solutions. I'm fairly happy with Misfortune Modifier and its challenge version, at sub-100 and sub-300, respectively. Fortunately, this first round is long, so there's plenty of time to make improvements.

  • csuzwcsuzw Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I appear to need to knock about 50 cycles off each of my solutions other than perhaps the challenge 1 to be competitive. I didn't think I was too bad at this game but I'm at a loss here. Although in the process of writing this I've just thought of a possibility for Fructose Factory.

    edit: Well that idea only saved me 15 cycles. Guess it's progress at least.

    csuzw on
    ecco the dolphin
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Looks like I need to shave off some cycles on a few solutions. I'm fairly happy with Misfortune Modifier and its challenge version, at sub-100 and sub-300, respectively.

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

    ... well, once I get home from work tonight.

    Edit:

    Pssst, my challenge version is sub-200

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Looks like I need to shave off some cycles on a few solutions. I'm fairly happy with Misfortune Modifier and its challenge version, at sub-100 and sub-300, respectively.

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

    ... well, once I get home from work tonight.

    Edit:

    Pssst, my challenge version is sub-200

    It shouldn't be too much of a challenge. My solution is pretty straightforward.

    I knew there was a lot of room for improvement with the challenge. I wasted a lot of cycles accounting for every case and breaking excess bonds. Pretty sure I know what to do, now that I've thought about it some more.

    Edit: Sub-200 achieved. Starting too fast made me go slow.

    ContentContext on
  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    I loaded up Sword of the Stars: The Pit last night just to have a quick play before getting stuck into the Spacechem puzzles. Then it was bedtime. Will have to jump into them tonight.

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    Origin: KafkaAU B-Net: Kafka#1778
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    My numbers seem to be keeping pace with ecco and ContentContext's reports. I'm most interested in seeing how people are handle the Misfortune Modifier puzzles, both the regular and challenge versions. Those puzzles seem to be the ones that have the most potential in terms of ways to approach them, so I'm hoping my method stacks up well.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Looks like I need to shave off some cycles on a few solutions. I'm fairly happy with Misfortune Modifier and its challenge version, at sub-100 and sub-300, respectively.

    CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!

    ... well, once I get home from work tonight.

    Edit:

    Pssst, my challenge version is sub-200

    It shouldn't be too much of a challenge. My solution is pretty straightforward.

    There: Non-challenge version is now sub-95!

    Can't believe I didn't think about this particular way to solve it before.

    Silly me

    Hey, (code obfuscation related) - is the order of the NaCl always the same for everyone, even though it was "randomly" distributed?

    Like do you guys get 2xNaCl in the top left to start off with, followed by 2xNaCl in the bottom right?

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    In order to allow for equal leaderboard comparisons, everybody has the same input orders (i.e. generated from the same starting seed). I think this doesn't necessary apply for certain platforms the game has been ported to, but once you have seen what the input order is, you can consider it reliable for everyone.

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    In order to allow for equal leaderboard comparisons, everybody has the same input orders (i.e. generated from the same starting seed). I think this doesn't necessary apply for certain platforms the game has been ported to, but once you have seen what the input order is, you can consider it reliable for everyone.

    Interesting...

    By making certain assumptions about input order, I can actually shave a few cycles off here and there.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    *Wrong thread. SO wrong.*

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    One of the Something Awful folks has reported benchmarks of sub-40 on Misfortune Modifier (standard) and sub-120 on Sun Simulator, in case anyone needed more goals to push for. I had to tweak my solution on the latter puzzle to meet their claim, but I'm feeling pretty good about my solutions right now.

    EDIT: Another poster is claiming sub-150 on Fructose Factory and sub-120 on Misfortune Modifier (challenge)...

    MrBlarney on
    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    One of the Something Awful folks has reported benchmarks of sub-40 on Misfortune Modifier (standard) and sub-120 on Sun Simulator, in case anyone needed more goals to push for. I had to tweak my solution on the latter puzzle to meet their claim, but I'm feeling pretty good about my solutions right now.

    EDIT: Another poster is claiming sub-150 on Fructose Factory and sub-120 on Misfortune Modifier (challenge)...

    Oh yes, I'm able to meet the sub-150 (Fructose Factory) and sub-120 MM (challenge) claims with my existing solutions. =)

    Edit:

    I'm actually at around low 80s for my MM (standard) - not assuming input order.

    If I do assume input order on MM, I have a feeling that I can get close to sub 40.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    I'm sub-50 on MM, so not too far off. Others need some extra work.

  • NibbleNibble Registered User regular
    I have found that a number of levels list my "best" statistics as "0" under all three categories, which should be some sort of bug. Has anyone else experienced this?
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  • FandaFanda Hang a shining star upon the highest boughRegistered User regular
    Not with my own scores, but on my friends leaderboard @rRootagea has a 0 cycle score for Settling Into The Routine on the third planet.

    Molybdenum wrote: »
    Soon you will be as tadpoles finding their legs, heaving yourselves out of the muscle butter baths and onto the beaches, croaking the songs of war.
  • rRootagearRootagea MadisonRegistered User regular
    edited June 2013
    It's a mystery! see nothing here out of the ordinary:

    rRootagea on
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    Today was the first time , this tournament, that I was compelled to draw a paper grid, at work. That's how I know it's getting serious.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Today was the first time , this tournament, that I was compelled to draw a paper grid, at work. That's how I know it's getting serious.

    I am sitting here right now with the epic SpaceChem background music blaring, optimising.

    This is serious fun business. =P

    Edit:

    AHA!

    Took me several hours, but I agree with MrB that there exists a sub-40 solution for MM (non-challenge)

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Just cracked 40 myself. Now to clean up the rest.

    Edit:
    There goes Fructose Factory.

    ContentContext on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    It's fairly encouraging that the benchmark numbers haven't changed over the past few days. I might still be a few cycles off of the actual bests, but at least I've got a chance that I'm at optimality for at least one puzzle.

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  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    In case anyone needed something to do for the tournament before the first round ends (in about 22 hours from now), pseudodude over on Something Awful (who was known for some of the most unique and surprising solutions during the 2012 tournament) has claimed ~80 cycles on the challenge version of Misfortune Modifier. I can vaguely see how it's possible, but my brain hasn't quite figured out how he was able to make it all fit together. (Pseudodude is also trying to improve even further, that's a whole different story.)

    MrBlarney on
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  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    I've all but given up on trying to get fewer cycles on that one. I'm still in the 150-200 range. Looking at the minimum number of inputs needed, it's clear what needs to be done. I just can't work out the spacing.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Haha, and I thought I was doing so well with my sub-100 solution. =P

    I think I see how to do it - but I'm spending my time sorting out car problems today. Suspected starter motor fault. *sigh*

    It's GG for me =P

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Round 2!

    Game on!

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    At first glance, these look a bit more challenging. I have to get up early, for a tournament, but I'm tempted to stay up late and bang out some solutions.

    Edit: That first one was cute.

    ContentContext on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Oh my gentlemen!

    Round 1 Results

    Round 1 video



    Overall Standings - Upper Tier

    Pseudodude 6
    ecco2 5
    Serbaldrig 4
    Waypoint 3
    LittleBigDej 3
    CannibalK9 3
    MrBlarney 3
    GuavaMoment 3
    ContentContext 2
    csuzw 2
    Everyone Else 2

    Overall Standings - Lower Tier

    Pseudodude 12
    CannibalK9 11
    DariusRaider 11
    GuavaMoment 10
    Serbaldrig 10
    Leylite 9
    Carlbunk 9
    TheKnife 9
    gggol 8
    MrBlarney 8
    cearn 7
    Roonespism 7
    ContentContext 7
    ecco2 7
    LittleBigDej 7
    csuzw 6
    Everyone Else 6,4, or 2

    Anyone else from PA competing?

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Very nicely done on the Misfortune Modifier challenge, ecco! I also wish I hadn't missed the input-fuse trick on Sun Simulator, I might have ranked better on that one. If anyone's interested in my solutions, I've got a link here.

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Thanks! Good job on your MM non-challenge as well - beat me by 10 symbols! =P

    As it turns out, my Fructose Factory and Sun Simulator solutions were... lacking. I'll just leave them out, but here's my MM solutions:

    MM non-challenge - "What a Mess"
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    MM challenge - "Swizzle Stick"
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    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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