[ChemistryOn!] SpaceChem! Demo on Steam, good for four hours.

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  • csuzwcsuzw Registered User regular
    As expected I didn't even get close to troubling the standings although 1 of my solutions did feature in the video (haven't heard the audio so was probably shown as an example of how not to do it). I'm not entirely sure this competition is for me as I knew I could massively improve my MM solution by tailoring it to the input order but I just couldn't be bothered, I like my solutions to run indefinitely. The solutions I was most interested to see were for Fructose Factory and I was a little disappointed, I was expecting something a lot more outlandish, a bit like pseudodude's challenge solution. Round 2 challenges seem like quite a step up, much more challenging to complete, let alone optimise.

  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    The first few were basically warm ups. These are tougher but they're not too bad. Ct100 is slightly deceptive, though entirely possible to do the hard way. Three just takes a little planning, though I'm sure my symbol count could be brought down a bit. Haven't done the challenge yet, but I've got the numbers down.

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Even if you don't place in the top 8 or 16, it's still worth trying all the puzzles to improve your general skill - last year's tournament improved my SpaceChem aptitude by quite a bit.

    I've got some solutions for all three of this round's puzzles, but I think it's a little difficult to talk about benchmarks without making obvious statements. Then again, that won't stop me from being proud of confirming that 1-waldo solutions to the challenge puzzle are indeed possible.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • csuzwcsuzw Registered User regular
    Yes I'm still going to take part as much as possible. This round I seem to be completely distracted by Ct100 which I think I've got a good solution for but I'm also sure someone will have done it in half the time so I keep trying to improve it instead of solving the other 2 problems. Think I'm close to a solution on the 2nd problem but I'm struggling to think in terms of symbols instead of cycles on it. Not put any time into the challenge 1 yet but I really hope to have a 1 waldo solution by the end.

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Any solution is a good solution when you're starting out. Trying to figure out how a puzzle works at all helps you explicitly see what steps are necessary so that you can then move on to the optimization conditions for the specific puzzle at hand. So I'd recommend just trying to get any solution on Three without regard to symbol or cycle efficiency and just use both waldos when constructing Precious Oxygen. Besides, participation points are available for any working solution and in later rounds, it may be possible to land in the top 16 by default just for completion.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
    ecco the dolphin
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Yay! Join usssss, csuzw. =P

    I gotta agree with MrB - get some solutions in, even if you know they're not the best you can do. =)

    I've only got time to focus on one or two puzzles every week, so I knowingly put in sub-optimal solutions for the ones I'm not focussing on. Keeps me on par with the rest of the crowd!

    Especially you folk. =P Geeze - keeping me on my toes, I tells you.

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    The Something Awful folks are talking about benchmarks on the challenge puzzle, with Serbaldrig (2012 tournament champion) claiming a sub-600 (presumably one-waldo) solution - in case anybody wanted something to shoot for. My current solution is at least 3rd place or worse, and I suspect there's a fundamental flaw that I need to tweak in order to cut off a chunk more.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Hmmmmmmm

    That's pretty darned impressive, actually

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    It's way better than mine. It came down to the wire, but I managed to get a 1-waldo solution, early this morning. I was too stubborn to even try 2. It's ugly and spends a lot of time doing nothing, but it was such a relief when it finally worked.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    It's way better than mine. It came down to the wire, but I managed to get a 1-waldo solution, early this morning. I was too stubborn to even try 2. It's ugly and spends a lot of time doing nothing, but it was such a relief when it finally worked.

    Yeah - that was surprisingly difficult!

    I did come up with a sub-600 1 waldo solution in the end, but who can truly say if it was good enough?

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    I suspect that, though I did not get to the top benchmark, my challenge solution is good enough for Top 8; hopefully I got my Counting to 100 solution to the limit and early enough to get Top 8 there as well. I am almost certain that I did not get Top 8 on Three, but I have never been all that great at pure symbol optimization. I'll probably be slapping my forehead over something stupid on that one once the results roll out.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Since the deadline has truly gone past, is there a faux pas if we post our solutions?

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Since the deadline has truly gone past, is there a faux pas if we post our solutions?
    I don't see a problem with it. I'm interested to see how poorly I did, in comparison. Let me dig through my emails.

    Edit:

    ContentContext on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Just dropped my fiance off at work, and on the drive home, I realised how I could improve my solution dramatically.

    /facepalm

    Edit2: Idea didn't work - *phew* (or at least not without more tweaking)

    Edit
    Since the deadline has truly gone past, is there a faux pas if we post our solutions?
    I don't see a problem with it. I'm interested to see how poorly I did, in comparison. Let me dig through my emails.

    Ditto!

    Ct100: 117/1/27 (participation points ahoy!)
    p94j.png

    Three: 2460/1/26
    g2t.png

    PO: 1/560/1/64
    wwz3.png

    Step 1: Split Au into two parts - use Zr junction at top to place the split into a strategic location
    Step 2: Go back and fetch Ag, and split that into two parts - use non-output (non-oxygen) path to fuse into Gd and Sm (flip flops used so that next three runs through this during the Gd split will not try to fuse anything)
    Step 3: Discard Sm, so that we are guaranteed that any split into O will be O-O, instead of O-N
    Step 4a: Split split split - every time there no oxygen as a result of the split, use the non-output path (this should happen three more times before the final O=O)
    Step 4b: Split split split - every time an oxygen appears, use the oxygen path (this should happen exactly four times, so use 2 flip flops to count up and go back to step 1)

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013

    Ct100: So neat! I knew that there was a ton of optimising that could be done there - so elegant =)

    Three: Love your flip flop delays on the edge of the grid - I was all O_o !!? until I figured it out.

    PO: Wow, that's... certainly something! Participation points ahoy!

    Edit: Man, these PO solutions need explanations! =P (including mine!)

    (I definitely need to put your chain of flipflops at the bottom of the grid into SpaceChem to see what's happening - it's to count to something, I'm certain, but what and how?!)

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Holy crap ecco, that Precious Oxygen solution is absolutely brilliant. Using the molecule chains like that is pseudodudean, to borrow a term from the 2012 Tournament. I'm also slapping my forehead at Three, where I wanted to mash one of the waldos on a bond symbol but never figured out which one or how.

    I'll upload my pack of solutions for this round when I get home, but man, they just don't compare. (Except maybe Count to 100, to which I have a better cycle count than ContentContext.)

    EDIT: ContentContext, I am having so much trouble following your Precious Oxygen solution on sight and I love it.

    MrBlarney on
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  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I knew I was at least 10 over what was possible on Three. Attemps to straighten things out just added symbols. Nice work on that one.

    These challenges have been a real sore spot, and I can't imagine them getting any easier. I'll be less distracted in the upcoming rounds, so I hope I can step up my game.

    Edit: Ecco, I don't even know how I got that to work. I was having the hardest time getting it to loop, so I threw flip flops at it, until things stopped crashing.

    ContentContext on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Thanks!

    I finalised my PO at roughly 2am local time (entry deadline is 5am local time). I was pumped with adrenaline!

    Don't tell ahava, 'k? =P

    Hearing you quote sub-500 from the other SA guys makes me wonder how they did it.

    They're forces to be reckoned with!

    Edit:
    Ecco, I don't even know how I got that to work. I was having the hardest time getting it to loop, so I threw flip flops at it, until things stopped crashing.

    Hahaha - you should have seen my earlier solutions! I had one where I was trying to count to 5 on the flip flops on the non-oxygen path. I tried all sorts of random configurations until I just gave up, and noticed that by using that Zr, I could actually "escape" the loop so that the non-oxygen path only had to count to 4.

    I think that was at about 11pm last night.

    ...

    and now... I feel like I need to catch up on my sleep.

    *yawn*

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • csuzwcsuzw Registered User regular
    Damn! I really need to pay attention to the deadline dates. 1st round I thought it finished a week earlier than it actually did, this round I thought it was finishing a week later. Only got a solution in for Counting to 100 and at 74 cycles I'm guessing it missed out.

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Hearing you quote sub-500 from the other SA guys makes me wonder how they did it.

    If I said sub-500, I must have misspoke. Sub-600 was the best benchmark that I saw reported in the SA thread, so I suspect you might end up in the top 3 again for this round on the upper tier puzzle.

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  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Alright, my solution pack is here. Knowing individuals' scores kinds of takes a little bit of the mystery and anticipation out of waiting for the results, but I'm still very interested to see what the top solutions and other interesting variations look like.

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    csuzw wrote: »
    Damn! I really need to pay attention to the deadline dates. 1st round I thought it finished a week earlier than it actually did, this round I thought it was finishing a week later. Only got a solution in for Counting to 100 and at 74 cycles I'm guessing it missed out.

    I think the rest of the tournament has one week per round now?
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    Hearing you quote sub-500 from the other SA guys makes me wonder how they did it.

    If I said sub-500, I must have misspoke.

    I admit, I was pumped full of adrenaline and starting to see the matrix when we were talking - I may have misread things. All I saw really after a point were red waldos, blu... wait, single waldo solution, so no blue waldo. Just one red waldo.

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Round 3
    Round 3 - Destroying Atoms

    Did you know that you can make molecules that shouldn't even exist? And furthermore, did you know that the game has a hidden atom? Well, this week is about those.

    By the way, feel free to talk about particle smashing here. This is a weird concept, so if you want to help make it more clear, by all means. But let's not explain the atom in the upper tier puzzle.

    Bonder Priority + Particle Smash Tutorial Video



    6: Hypothetical Synthesis

    Image:
    dhZexNI.png

    Task: Generate Θ-tetroxide using hypothetite. What do you do with all that extra element theta?
    Goal Priority: LEAST CYCLES/LEAST SYMBOLS/SUBMISSION TIME

    H4sIAD2qxFEA/42QwU7EIBCGX8XMeZsA8UDoC3gxHtzEg/GA7dSSsNDAkFib+hz7VPtMTls1u+
    tFDgR+Zr7/ZyZwYShUfcSAGcwEYtlWja/PExyix6Z4BAN34xCpR3KE9en4UCupBK9aSi0F7KCJ
    JRAYqeaXeQfy/6AV8IO7AjEpFvob8Qx3OlZ7pBTfXbvyPsUtIxmmVC2FFqoWUiv OqbRYbPSFiV
    gsepsrb9MbVpsZmM76jDt4jaHFVH0X660yY8gxgaFUcFO6kjH9 Nq01g3dEVyKhxyGmc5nGYflD
    wow2NT0HC/ZwMaTG+pvHMfA5u8zvtlC/uMOT8+09C63rOsezoBGMmL8ABX7y89IBAAA=

    7: Superhydracetylene

    Image:
    YzHzdlU.png

    Task: Double-bond hydrogen to carbon to create a rather unstable version of acetylene.
    Goal Priority: LEAST CYCLES/LEAST SYMBOLS/SUBMISSION TIME

    H4sIAHSqxFEA/3WQPWvDMBCG/0q4OQZJgWLsMR2yBA8dOpQOqn2OBYpk9AFxjfvbe7LT4rrtII
    Fe3T33SCMo08eQvVuDHooRWNrmjI4vI1ytxjpqhAKO0r1Zsztb Y2+qwfJYlYLnjJWcPwgGe6ht
    NAEKLqbXaQ/8f9JpaJy9oNk9qgVVfTBxKoVINME548TM+ZZJUBvDb90V+Sn26 DrCyxrDoNGQZm
    LTKhnn4i5LQ9J+oFHrIexLe0WsbgOZzoZJau7NN13U1kmfaeku mC2KULRSe9wDfVmDLrsX50ul
    R+Ot+65JURs9/kx8r1UImzCgxt66dRyGPok69Chd3ZGZkde/P4PuZAxdGg3PSjdnChrVtooeGw
    Yo2PQJ09XDnhECAAA=

    Challenge 3: Intro to Templates
    Inspired by Leveling

    Image:
    6X42iSs.png

    Task: Complete this maleic acid molecule.
    Goal Priority: LEAST CYCLES/LEAST SYMBOLS/SUBMISSION TIME

    H4sIAKqqxFEA/3WSPWvDMBCG/0rR1EIMd3IJwRpKyJIOIUuhQ+mg2ufaoFhGkoc0pL+9d3Yako
    YOOuRHB+8HPqi264eUffmOoioOCmSMjD/fDmrnHZWDI1WojXXUlncvtOudTWRW3/C45rPlc//0
    YBDmiAYRAA1oQDCYy+Qjdz0XDvxiNCyE5wu+5zkzI4N5zlzNVO mHLqkC9fH9OFP4v6VlScm6ip
    p9xX7YTL5ab1kQRVB02c5oSiOMsqCNRjGihfyRYi0/pNs6bjtYlm11lZ8Dj5o4hVycQ06xp2qk
    DTi5G6NyeCGYz3/ruHAE4qexMXM2fFI2OVNFbV2kmfrwXUUhOy3DtBmpiz6cdwTVQ yQmKQwnEH
    vXpkTXW4kc9T5c4rTvJXCgSDaUDRvr7E7Ic5eCv0v+/CNEfrNDakRZvbau2jCo2rpuubS0Z3fH
    H4x4kqBnAgAA

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Also

    Particle smashing?

    W.T.F

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    Also

    Particle smashing?

    W.T.F

    I was a little upset that the 3rd round of puzzles required knowledge of a glitch, but at least WildM put up a video explaining it. Of course, this was after I had already solved the first one, using The Google.

  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Even after watching the video, I still don't quite understand particle smashing, but at least I've been making some progress with trial and error. Maybe it will become more intuitive as the week goes on.

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  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Round 2 Results



    Overall Standings - Upper Tier

    Code:
    Pseudodude 11
    ecco2 8
    Carlbunk 8
    Serbaldrig 7
    GuavaMoment 7
    CannibalK9 6
    MrBlarney 6
    gggol 5
    Waypoint 5
    ContentContext 4
    csuzw 2
    Everyone Else <=4

    Overall Standings - Lower Tier

    Code:
    Serbaldrig 17
    Pseudodude 16
    gggol 16
    CannibalK9 16
    DariusRaider 16
    GuavaMoment 15
    Blueeyedrat 14
    TheKnife 14
    Leylite 13
    Carlbunk 13
    MrBlarney 13
    ecco2 12
    Waypoint 12
    ContentContext 11
    csuzw 8
    Everyone Else <=11

    Detailed Results

    4: Counting to 100
    Code:
    Cycles Reactor Symbols
    1st gggol 51 1 47
    2nd Serbaldrig 52 1 51
    3rd Cannibal9K 56 1 96
    4th Waypoint 59 1 38
    5th ToughThought 59 1 53
    6th MrBlarney 62 1 37
    7th TheKnife 62 1 46
    8th Amphigorist 62 1 69

    5: Three
    Code:
    Cycles Reactor Symbols
    1st Blueeyedrat 1945 1 24
    2nd CannibalK9 3019 1 24
    3rd Amphigorist 2204 1 25
    4th lardnar 2274 1 25
    5th ecco2 2490 1 26
    6th DariusRaider 3390 1 26
    7th GuavaMoment 2177 1 27
    8th Waypoint 1362 1 28
    Histogram

    Challenge 2: Precious Oxygen
    Code:
    Waldos Cycles Reactor Symbols
    1st Carlbunk 1 482 1 58
    2nd Pseudodude 1 517 1 67
    3rd GuavaMoment 1 549 1 52
    4th gggol 1 559 1 66
    5th ecco2 1 560 1 64
    6th Serbaldrig 1 573 1 67
    7th MrBlarney 1 631 1 66
    8th CannibalK9 1 641 1 54

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    I'm actually kind of surprised that I placed in the Top 8 for two of the three puzzles on Round 2, and was close on the one I didn't get in on.

    I've got preliminary solutions for all of Round 3's puzzles and finally have sort of a handle on particle smashing. The lower tier puzzles aren't so bad once you understand particle smashing a little bit, though I still have room to optimize. I'm most interested to see the variety of solutions on this week's challenge - my preliminary solution is obviously poor.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I'm actually kind of surprised that I placed in the Top 8 for two of the three puzzles on Round 2, and was close on the one I didn't get in on.

    That was a tough round.
    MrBlarney wrote: »
    I've got preliminary solutions for all of Round 3's puzzles and finally have sort of a handle on particle smashing. The lower tier puzzles aren't so bad once you understand particle smashing a little bit, though I still have room to optimize. I'm most interested to see the variety of solutions on this week's challenge - my preliminary solution is obviously poor.

    I'm particle smashing as well

    But I don't have to like it. =P

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    Oh, believe you me, I hate particle smashing too, and I hope I don't have to do any more of it after the end of this round.

    Really though, we all know deep down that there's going to be one advanced particle smashing puzzle later in the tournament and we're all going to loathe it so much.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    In case anyone needed some 'early' benchmarks to fret about, there's sub-130 on Hypothetical Synthesis and sub-200 on Superhydracetylene to think about.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    Not quite there yet, but knowing sub-130 is possible has compelled me to split the distance between it and my old solution. That's something.

  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    I just woke up.

    And I think I have just come up with the craziest way of getting sub-130...

    Edit: Nope, didn't work

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    Sub 450 for the challenge puzzle, with plenty of room to optimise.

    How are you chaps doing?

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    About the same. Took me a while to get around to it, because I spent so much trying to get sub-130 on the first one. Still didn't get there, but the sub-200 benchmark was easy enough.

    Seems a few others weren't happy with with this round, judging by the Steam forum. Looks like puzzles that require smashing are out, moving forward.

    ContentContext on
  • MrBlarneyMrBlarney Registered User regular
    I cut past 400 cycles on Intro to Templates last night - I am tempted to believe that sub-300, or at least something very close to that next benchmark, is a possibility for the top scorers. I believe CannibalK9 over on SA is suggesting he has sub-180 on Superhydracetylene, so I'm probably going to have to take another look at that one.

    4463rwiq7r47.png
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    Man, you guys go =)

    I'm going to have to dedicate the rest of my free time to the challenge puzzle this week, and maybe if I have spare time I'll try a sub-130 solution.

    Edit:

    There, sub-370 on Intro to Templates.

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ContentContextContentContext Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    For anyone interested:
    http://i.imgur.com/hu0mV87.jpg
    Hypothetical Synthesis 165/1/51
    http://i.imgur.com/UMoGnsT.jpg
    Superhydractylene 181/1/31
    http://i.imgur.com/zFcvNBe.jpg
    Intro to Templates 368/1/55
    Already saw all of these scores bested, in the Steam thread. Hopefully they're not too bad.

    Edit:
    Seeing a few sub-130's and talk of using 1 input, I understand the mistake I made.

    ContentContext on
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    I'm interested!

    I ended up focussing most of my spare time into Templates this week:

    Hypothetical Synthesis 135/1/32
    6yx2.png

    Superhydractylene 392/1/56 *
    * My only excuse is that I put little effort into this one
    w2r4.png

    Intro to templates 326/1/61 **
    ivem.png
    ** There's actually a little direction arrow in the top left that's redundant, which I forgot to remove

    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
  • ecco the dolphinecco the dolphin Registered User regular
    edited June 2013
    http://i.imgur.com/UMoGnsT.jpg
    Superhydractylene 181/1/31[/spoiler]

    Now that's a nice elegant solution!

    Please don't judge my monstrosity of a solution to that problem too harshly =P

    ecco the dolphin on
    Penny Arcade Developers at PADev.net.
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