Good points all around, Zero; thanks! The selection was definitely competitive; even with good marks (as far as I know) on the whole application, I didn't make the regular or alternate list. I've already basically prepared myself to be in a constant state of applying to OCS for the next four or five years; I just figure that four or five years as an enlisted man would "count" a little more than four or five years elsewhere.
The website doesn't tell me, well, anything about whether or not a degree helps with enlisted advancement; I'll add that to my list of things I need to ask about.
Since it's been a while since I started posting about it, for context I'm 24 with a BS in English and an MA in Writing.
Which branch? The Army gives considerable promotion points towards E-5 / E-6 for college, and you start out as E-4 as well with a finished degree.
Good points all around, Zero; thanks! The selection was definitely competitive; even with good marks (as far as I know) on the whole application, I didn't make the regular or alternate list. I've already basically prepared myself to be in a constant state of applying to OCS for the next four or five years; I just figure that four or five years as an enlisted man would "count" a little more than four or five years elsewhere.
The website doesn't tell me, well, anything about whether or not a degree helps with enlisted advancement; I'll add that to my list of things I need to ask about.
Since it's been a while since I started posting about it, for context I'm 24 with a BS in English and an MA in Writing.
Which branch? The Army gives considerable promotion points towards E-5 / E-6 for college, and you start out as E-4 as well with a finished degree.
Coast Guard. I poked around the Personnel Manual, but didn't see anything. If nothing else, I picked up some skills and experiences at school that should make me a good candidate, regardless of whether the degrees themselves count.
Took some time to think about it and went through wanting to enlist, to wanting to be an officer, to waiting until I get a masters and going in as an Entomologist, to not wanting to join, and now all the way back to wanting to enlist. What I am looking at right now is becoming a Warrant Officer with the goal of becoming a pilot.
Got a call from the local Army recruiter Monday, and two things I want to ask about before I go. The first thing are two things I forgot to mention when he called. When he asked if I'd ever had any broken bones, surgeries or any medical history stuff I forgot about getting my wisdom teeth out (which I don't expect to be any big deal, I'm often just a full story sort of person), and my history and current counseling for depression. Should I bring up at least that I am currently seeing a counselor for it when I go in, and say that it just slipped my mind? I'm pretty sure I shouldn't be as worried about that as I am, but I just worry that is going to cause problems in some way.
The other thing is what are good questions/information I should go in with? Is it worth taking a practice ASVAB and taking in what I get on it? The types questions I have for the recruiter now are general pay, benefits, training, commitment, availability of MOS, DEP, options if becoming a pilot doesn't work, things like that.
Thanks to everyone who helped or offered there help before, and thanks for any help now.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your incidence of depression may be a roadblock. Here's what the Army tells the physicians who screen applicants:
[From item 2-27, "Mental Disorders" of the Standards of Medical Fitness]
"d. Current mood disorders including, but not limited to, major depression (296.2–3), bipolar (296.4–7), affective psychoses (296.8–9), depressive not otherwise specified (311), do not meet the standard.
(1) History of mood disorders requiring outpatient care for longer than 6 months by a physician or other mental health professional (V65.40), or inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility does not meet the standard.
The Medical Fitness Standards for Flight Duty are even more strict. From later in that same document:
[Item 4-23, "Mental Disorders", under Standards for Flight Duty]
"The minimum psychiatric evaluation will include Axis I, II, and III, using diagnostic criteria and terms found in DSM–IV. The causes of medical unfitness for flying duty Classes 1/2/2F/3/4 are the causes in paragraph 2–27 , except as modified by the following:
...b. History of mood disorder, to include major mood disorders, depression, cyclothymic, dysthymic, and mood disorders not otherwise specified."
The document quoted above is Army Regulation 40–501, "Medical Services Standards of Medical Fitness." It's easily googled if you wish to do your own research.
Now. Please understand that each case is handled individually by the Army, and that your case may be unique. If you are truly committed to the process, I encourage you to apply and see where your own case takes you. Regardless of your chosen course, I wish you the best of luck.
If you do elect to apply for WOFT, feel free to PM me with any questions you have. I was selected for the program earlier this year, and I am more than happy to answer any questions you might have about the process.
A family friend of mine went AWOL(twice) in the Corps, right after SOI, because of hazing. First time he went AWOL for something short like over a long weekend (they had already put all his stuff into storage and because the supply nco was on leave, couldn't get his cammies for over a week) and got NJP'd; the 2nd time he went AWOL for 3+ months, coming back only for the investigation and court martial.
Even though he was hazed, he got an OTH discharge for going AWOL. The big thing mentioned was that, while the Corps doesn't condone hazing, he should've used the resources available to him to get the issue resolved (ex: chain of command, requesting mast, speaking with MP's or a counselor, JAG, IG, etc...).
Evigilant on
XBL\PSN\Steam\Origin: Evigilant
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ZeroFillFeeling much better.A nice, green leaf.Registered Userregular
A family friend of mine went AWOL(twice) in the Corps, right after SOI, because of hazing. First time he went AWOL for something short like over a long weekend (they had already put all his stuff into storage and because the supply nco was on leave, couldn't get his cammies for over a week) and got NJP'd; the 2nd time he went AWOL for 3+ months, coming back only for the investigation and court martial.
Even though he was hazed, he got an OTH discharge for going AWOL. The big thing mentioned was that, while the Corps doesn't condone hazing, he should've used the resources available to him to get the issue resolved (ex: chain of command, requesting mast, speaking with MP's or a counselor, JAG, IG, etc...).
Whoops, forgot to respond to this. Sorry about that.
AWOL, or as the Navy calls it being UA (unauthorized absence) is considered a lesser crime than being a deserter. There are varying conditions for desertion, but they're usually considered an absence that goes longer than 28 days, or 4 weeks or so. Desertion is a free ride out of the military with a bad conduct discharge.
I've seen it happen plenty of times with junior personnel who feel they were wronged, or otherwise suffered some injustice take off and not report to work for a few days or more. Once they come back, they face non-judicial punishment, which for a junior guy certainly sucks, but isn't the end of all things. The quicker they get back where they need to be and report in, the easier things will go for them. I understand why people do it, though I don't agree with it. There are certainly better paths to recourse than up and leaving; it's hard to do things the right way sometimes, but ultimately the payoff is usually better in these cases.
I'm really surprised the person Evigilant mentioned was kicked straight out for going AWOL once. I'm guessing there's a little more to the story that compounded the infraction, i.e. they missed unit movement, wasn't the first offense, was longer than a month or something along those lines.
I had this terrible dream last night where I was sent to military prison. I was harassed by two relentless Corporals. The first thing they did was make me mop. But the mop was old, and it wouldn't clean the floor, and it was the middle of the day so people kept walking through and leaving footprints and I kept having to mop over and over and over.
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming, tears in my eyes.
I had this terrible dream last night where I was sent to military prison. I was harassed by two relentless Corporals. The first thing they did was make me mop. But the mop was old, and it wouldn't clean the floor, and it was the middle of the day so people kept walking through and leaving footprints and I kept having to mop over and over and over.
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming, tears in my eyes.
I did exactly that when I was in the air force, cleaning an entire office all day while people constantly walk through it.
Although that was probably the best part of my job because I got to stay in the AC while I ran a mop around the office for 10 hours. Literally, sweep, mop, sweep, mop. You literally never stop.
I had this terrible dream last night where I was sent to military prison. I was harassed by two relentless Corporals. The first thing they did was make me mop. But the mop was old, and it wouldn't clean the floor, and it was the middle of the day so people kept walking through and leaving footprints and I kept having to mop over and over and over.
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming, tears in my eyes.
Sounds like someone doesn't like being a joe in garrison.
After last week it has become very apparent that I'm not doing anywhere near as well mentally as I thought I had been doing, so I've decided it is best not to try and join. I still have other options on where to go so it doesn't put me in a bad spot, but certainly not how I like to have my decisions made on such things.
Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, and I wish the best of luck to everyone out there who is either serving or working towards serving.
I had this terrible dream last night where I was sent to military prison. I was harassed by two relentless Corporals. The first thing they did was make me mop. But the mop was old, and it wouldn't clean the floor, and it was the middle of the day so people kept walking through and leaving footprints and I kept having to mop over and over and over.
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming, tears in my eyes.
Sounds like someone doesn't like being a joe in garrison.
Liked it so little, in fact, that I completed my contract and left the Marine Corps in March :P
Really, though, I would go to Afghan, if I had the choice. Tried to land a contracting gig out there, at least, but the timing wasn't right.
(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.
Though no one has been put to death since one person in WWII, that technically is the maximum punishment. For desertion from combat, deserters typically have gotten a maximum of 18 months since the Iraq war.
Also depending on the circumstances, the case can be made for desertion even if someone is gone less than 30 days, but it's dependent on being able to show that they had no intention of coming back to the military.
A good example was a recruit who took off from boot camp, left all of his uniforms and personal belongings behind, including his military ID card. It was argued that since he left his ID he had no intention of coming back, and was immediately processed for separation for desertion.
In regards to Gate's quote about the Marine Corps becoming the 2nd Army, I kind of agree with him, but it'll be a hell of an effort trimming the fat.
You try convincing the Armed Services Committee, Joint Chiefs, the Senators, the President, and most of all the voters that the right thing to do, during an election season, is institute mandatory retirement and forced separation because your service is getting too large to sustain/and or differentiate itself from another branch.
But I'd like the trimming to happen not just to the Corps, but all the service branches respectively. As you get up there, it's hard as hell to get promoted because the guy who's in that position has been camping it since before I was born. "Come on, man! Retire already so I can take your spot!"
I'm having trouble finding the link now, my google-fu is pathetic, and no the comment was recent as he is preparing to depart. If someone could help me find it I would appreciate it.
The short version is that Gates is worried the Corps is becoming a "2nd Army" since they're doing stuff that "should" be under the purview of the Army. They aren't carrying out amphibious operations, they're clearing Fallujah in 2006.
FPA20111 on
The paranoid man believes that everyone is out to get him. The intelligent man knows that everyone is out to get him.
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TurksonNear the mountains of ColoradoRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I'm late to the party, when did they start having campaign stars for Iraq and presumably Afghanistan?
Regarding Gates comments, the Marine Corps has to really bulk up in order to meet deployment requirements. Literally went from 170,000ish to 203,000+. That's not cheap, we're talking at least $60 million in pay at the very least and more likely $100 million plus per year. This isn't including medical/dental, training, dependents, equipment, etc etc etc. It adds up quickly. The increase in troop numbers came because the Marine Corps has to step into traditional roles of the Army in order to free up more of their assets to be used elsewhere.
Long story short, we ain't really got the people to occupy and safeguard a medium sized country, let alone two.
(4) ONE BRONZE SERVICE STAR SHALL BE WORN ON THE
SUSPENSION AND CAMPAIGN RIBBON OF THE ICM FOR ONE OR MORE DAYS OF
PARTICIPATION IN EACH DESIGNATED CAMPAIGN PHASE.
Which is silly since having the medal demonstrates participation in one of the campaigns anyway.
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ZeroFillFeeling much better.A nice, green leaf.Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
That is really odd. I need to see if there is specific Navy guidance on it, since that looks to be Army specific.
I just finished Generation Kill after snagging it for $25. Are there seriously Officers like Captain "America" that exist? If so holy shit.
Better yet, you can find Encino man on facebook. He's a Lt Col now.
He doesn't have generation kill in his favorite book selections.
Yeah, there isn't a lot of turnover in terrible officers. Murdering (last name here) is still kicking around last my squad leader knew (nickname acquired by murdering a subordinate through gross incompetence that he was specifically warned ahead of time was a bad idea).
I just finished Generation Kill after snagging it for $25. Are there seriously Officers like Captain "America" that exist? If so holy shit.
Better yet, you can find Encino man on facebook. He's a Lt Col now.
He doesn't have generation kill in his favorite book selections.
Yeah, there isn't a lot of turnover in terrible officers. Murdering (last name here) is still kicking around last my squad leader knew (nickname acquired by murdering a subordinate through gross incompetence that he was specifically warned ahead of time was a bad idea).
That is fucking tragic, but on the plus side it gives me a chance to use this gif.
Greetings! Long time lurker and first time poster here. I've been visiting PA religiously since almost the beginning, but never really got into the forums until a few months ago. 152H (Apache Pilot) CW2 (Chief Warrant Officer 2) here in the Active Army. I've been a huge fan of the strip since my days of staying up late in High School playing Tribes. I've graduated to bigger and better (although this may be arguable by some) games but I still load up PA on an almost daily basis internet permitting. I'm currently just starting a tour in Afghanistan (RC-East). I have 2 year-long tours to Iraq under my belt as well. Always been a gamer for as long as I can remember. (MMORPG/RTS/FPS/etc) Most of my friends know me as the resident geek, but I think I hide it pretty well. One of my bucket list items is to be able to meet the PA staff in person, and maybe even tour the studios. I know it'll probably never happen but a guy can dream right?
Klearmind on
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ZeroFillFeeling much better.A nice, green leaf.Registered Userregular
You know, especially if you just fly it to PAX and see them there :P
They're not exactly recluses.
It would be pretty awesome if we could just borrow them whenever lol. Unfortunately the Army isn't a big fan of that sort of thing any more. I'm definitely going to try and make the next PAX after this tour though! I've always wanted to go to one. The hardest part for me is just getting time off from work to go. (I live in Central Texas)
Klearmind on
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Waffles or whateverPreviously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen"Registered Userregular
Greetings! Long time lurker and first time poster here. I've been visiting PA religiously since almost the beginning, but never really got into the forums until a few months ago. 152H (Apache Pilot) CW2 (Chief Warrant Officer 2) here in the Active Army. I've been a huge fan of the strip since my days of staying up late in High School playing Tribes. I've graduated to bigger and better (although this may be arguable by some) games but I still load up PA on an almost daily basis internet permitting. I'm currently just starting a tour in Afghanistan (RC-East). I have 2 year-long tours to Iraq under my belt as well. Always been a gamer for as long as I can remember. (MMORPG/RTS/FPS/etc) Most of my friends know me as the resident geek, but I think I hide it pretty well. One of my bucket list items is to be able to meet the PA staff in person, and maybe even tour the studios. I know it'll probably never happen but a guy can dream right?
I am SO jealous right now. I hate you. I would do anything to jump into your shoes. If I was guaranteed to go to WOCS followed by Flight School I'd drop my ROTC Program in a heart beat to go.
Klearmind, that's pretty awesome what you do and I fully anticipate to apply to WOFT (again) after my RC-W tour. I tried as a civilian but didn't get accepted, maybe a year deployment in a combat arms branch will get me over the top.
If you don't mind I might pick your brain in the future for any tips/suggestions you may have.
Klearmind, that's pretty awesome what you do and I fully anticipate to apply to WOFT (again) after my RC-W tour. I tried as a civilian but didn't get accepted, maybe a year deployment in a combat arms branch will get me over the top.
If you don't mind I might pick your brain in the future for any tips/suggestions you may have.
Absolutely! If you want to put me up on the boards for anyone interested in putting in a WOFT packet for the Army I'll do my best to answer any questions they may have.
I've only ridden in a helicopter once: a CH-47. I definitely preferred it over the C130...that is, until we got pinged and I thought we were going to get shot and die in a firey crash.
But it's nice being able to look out the windows and see what's going on.
Just discovered my former Senior Drill Instructor is still the literal poster boy for Marine recruiters. He's the front guy in the lineup on the website, and I've seen him in magazine ads and such. He even got a life-sized cardboard cutout!
He's a pretty cool guy, but (of course) scary as shit when he was angry.
Just think it's cool I got to meet a guy (and be trained by a guy) who's so influential.
Posts
Which branch? The Army gives considerable promotion points towards E-5 / E-6 for college, and you start out as E-4 as well with a finished degree.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but your incidence of depression may be a roadblock. Here's what the Army tells the physicians who screen applicants:
[From item 2-27, "Mental Disorders" of the Standards of Medical Fitness]
"d. Current mood disorders including, but not limited to, major depression (296.2–3), bipolar (296.4–7), affective psychoses (296.8–9), depressive not otherwise specified (311), do not meet the standard.
(1) History of mood disorders requiring outpatient care for longer than 6 months by a physician or other mental health professional (V65.40), or inpatient treatment in a hospital or residential facility does not meet the standard.
The Medical Fitness Standards for Flight Duty are even more strict. From later in that same document:
[Item 4-23, "Mental Disorders", under Standards for Flight Duty]
"The minimum psychiatric evaluation will include Axis I, II, and III, using diagnostic criteria and terms found in DSM–IV. The causes of medical unfitness for flying duty Classes 1/2/2F/3/4 are the causes in paragraph 2–27 , except as modified by the following:
...b. History of mood disorder, to include major mood disorders, depression, cyclothymic, dysthymic, and mood disorders not otherwise specified."
The document quoted above is Army Regulation 40–501, "Medical Services Standards of Medical Fitness." It's easily googled if you wish to do your own research.
Now. Please understand that each case is handled individually by the Army, and that your case may be unique. If you are truly committed to the process, I encourage you to apply and see where your own case takes you. Regardless of your chosen course, I wish you the best of luck.
If you do elect to apply for WOFT, feel free to PM me with any questions you have. I was selected for the program earlier this year, and I am more than happy to answer any questions you might have about the process.
~V
A family friend of mine went AWOL(twice) in the Corps, right after SOI, because of hazing. First time he went AWOL for something short like over a long weekend (they had already put all his stuff into storage and because the supply nco was on leave, couldn't get his cammies for over a week) and got NJP'd; the 2nd time he went AWOL for 3+ months, coming back only for the investigation and court martial.
Even though he was hazed, he got an OTH discharge for going AWOL. The big thing mentioned was that, while the Corps doesn't condone hazing, he should've used the resources available to him to get the issue resolved (ex: chain of command, requesting mast, speaking with MP's or a counselor, JAG, IG, etc...).
Whoops, forgot to respond to this. Sorry about that.
AWOL, or as the Navy calls it being UA (unauthorized absence) is considered a lesser crime than being a deserter. There are varying conditions for desertion, but they're usually considered an absence that goes longer than 28 days, or 4 weeks or so. Desertion is a free ride out of the military with a bad conduct discharge.
I've seen it happen plenty of times with junior personnel who feel they were wronged, or otherwise suffered some injustice take off and not report to work for a few days or more. Once they come back, they face non-judicial punishment, which for a junior guy certainly sucks, but isn't the end of all things. The quicker they get back where they need to be and report in, the easier things will go for them. I understand why people do it, though I don't agree with it. There are certainly better paths to recourse than up and leaving; it's hard to do things the right way sometimes, but ultimately the payoff is usually better in these cases.
I'm really surprised the person Evigilant mentioned was kicked straight out for going AWOL once. I'm guessing there's a little more to the story that compounded the infraction, i.e. they missed unit movement, wasn't the first offense, was longer than a month or something along those lines.
I woke up in a cold sweat, screaming, tears in my eyes.
Although that was probably the best part of my job because I got to stay in the AC while I ran a mop around the office for 10 hours. Literally, sweep, mop, sweep, mop. You literally never stop.
Sounds like someone doesn't like being a joe in garrison.
Thanks to everyone for the help and advice, and I wish the best of luck to everyone out there who is either serving or working towards serving.
Liked it so little, in fact, that I completed my contract and left the Marine Corps in March :P
Really, though, I would go to Afghan, if I had the choice. Tried to land a contracting gig out there, at least, but the timing wasn't right.
Are you talking about his comments from last year?
Though no one has been put to death since one person in WWII, that technically is the maximum punishment. For desertion from combat, deserters typically have gotten a maximum of 18 months since the Iraq war.
Also depending on the circumstances, the case can be made for desertion even if someone is gone less than 30 days, but it's dependent on being able to show that they had no intention of coming back to the military.
A good example was a recruit who took off from boot camp, left all of his uniforms and personal belongings behind, including his military ID card. It was argued that since he left his ID he had no intention of coming back, and was immediately processed for separation for desertion.
You try convincing the Armed Services Committee, Joint Chiefs, the Senators, the President, and most of all the voters that the right thing to do, during an election season, is institute mandatory retirement and forced separation because your service is getting too large to sustain/and or differentiate itself from another branch.
But I'd like the trimming to happen not just to the Corps, but all the service branches respectively. As you get up there, it's hard as hell to get promoted because the guy who's in that position has been camping it since before I was born. "Come on, man! Retire already so I can take your spot!"
Linky?
The short version is that Gates is worried the Corps is becoming a "2nd Army" since they're doing stuff that "should" be under the purview of the Army. They aren't carrying out amphibious operations, they're clearing Fallujah in 2006.
http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=13366
Regarding Gates comments, the Marine Corps has to really bulk up in order to meet deployment requirements. Literally went from 170,000ish to 203,000+. That's not cheap, we're talking at least $60 million in pay at the very least and more likely $100 million plus per year. This isn't including medical/dental, training, dependents, equipment, etc etc etc. It adds up quickly. The increase in troop numbers came because the Marine Corps has to step into traditional roles of the Army in order to free up more of their assets to be used elsewhere.
Long story short, we ain't really got the people to occupy and safeguard a medium sized country, let alone two.
I got a star for being out there a year (two consecutive tours)
Edit:
I wonder if I'm supposed to have a star on my ICM. Speaking of awards, I just got a COM for my end of tour. Pretty excited about that.
Yup
http://dva.state.wi.us/Docs/OEF-OIF_Campaign_Stars.pdf
Which is silly since having the medal demonstrates participation in one of the campaigns anyway.
Wii U NNID: MegaSpooky
I've not watched the whole thing (just 3 eps) but yes, there are.
Better yet, you can find Encino man on facebook. He's a Lt Col now.
He doesn't have generation kill in his favorite book selections.
Yeah, there isn't a lot of turnover in terrible officers. Murdering (last name here) is still kicking around last my squad leader knew (nickname acquired by murdering a subordinate through gross incompetence that he was specifically warned ahead of time was a bad idea).
That is fucking tragic, but on the plus side it gives me a chance to use this gif.
http://imgur.com/gallery/KG6nA
Edit: Story
it's hard to say no to someone flying an Apache
They're not exactly recluses.
Edit: Not sure how often they're doing studio tours, though.
It would be pretty awesome if we could just borrow them whenever lol. Unfortunately the Army isn't a big fan of that sort of thing any more. I'm definitely going to try and make the next PAX after this tour though! I've always wanted to go to one. The hardest part for me is just getting time off from work to go. (I live in Central Texas)
I am SO jealous right now. I hate you.
If you don't mind I might pick your brain in the future for any tips/suggestions you may have.
Absolutely! If you want to put me up on the boards for anyone interested in putting in a WOFT packet for the Army I'll do my best to answer any questions they may have.
But it's nice being able to look out the windows and see what's going on.
He's a pretty cool guy, but (of course) scary as shit when he was angry.
Just think it's cool I got to meet a guy (and be trained by a guy) who's so influential.