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Cry Havok and let loose the dogs of the [Military Thread]

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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I mean in my MOS (35P) everyone was just completing their tours and getting the hell out, but that's because people could ets and get their same job at the same desk working for a contractor making 80k+ a year, and not having to do PT. Overall it's probably a lot more dependent on where the people are from and their education levels rather than their generation. It seemed like anyone that didn't have aspirations to anything else stayed in the Army, but people who wanted to go to college and/or have a career got out of dodge. I know in my unit, the general consensus was that it just wasn't worth it putting up with all the shit anymore so most people just got out after their 5 years. At one point the career counselors were going insane because the unit had like the lowest retention rate in the Army for a couple years.

    The disconnect between officers (and E7+) and reality seemed to play a big part of it as well. I imagine in the few years since I got out and social awareness of minority groups has grown so much that the Army probably hasn't kept up well and it's just shitting all over everyone. I know I got tired of hearing all the "back in my army X" or "the new army is weak because Y" from the old people. It's just like, oh sure we should go back to physically assaulting people because they didn't scrub the floor hard enough since you have nothing better to do with your time because it's the damn cold war. Gotta love E7+s talking shit about physical fitness when they are on 5 different permanent profiles and can't even do the walking PT test.

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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    edited July 2017
    God I wish I could have finished DLI and got over to 35P. Had me a slot with 7th group too.

    I guess now that I'm in acquisitions and can fall right into a gs12 slot without even trying is about the same thing. Plus I fucking love this job, but I really wanted to finish my language.

    If I want indef I would get out tomorrow. I'm over all the army bullshit and not to bring politics into this, but Trump isn't helping this.

    I have a lot of buddies that got out after 10 years, which when I first came in was unheard of. Back then if you had over 8 then you were a lifer. Now people are doing 12 and just gtfo.

    Military is in a shitty place right now. The army doesn't have any identity and in the struggles to find a new one it's just ruining everyone's moral and will to make this a career.

    If I don't get my SFC this look I'm just going to take up my neurologists offer to start a medical board for me.

    Bloodycow on
    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Just because you aren't at DLI doesn't mean you can't keep going with the language. There were plenty of 35N that had to swap out from 35P because they didn't finish DLI, and some of them ended up in 35P positions anyway because they knew enough of the language to do the job. If you can basically just read/listen to the news in whatever language that's pretty much where everyone ends up anyway, unless they get some in-country experience.

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    mosssnackmosssnack Yeah right, man, Bishop should go! Good idea!Registered User regular
    Chief results out tomorrow at 11 est. I'm not freaking out or anything

    XBL: mosssnack12
    bnet: moss*1454
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Good luck to you guys looking out for that list. Army's won't be out till mid September :(

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    mosssnackmosssnack Yeah right, man, Bishop should go! Good idea!Registered User regular
    Well fuck me, it happened. I'm a Chief select. Holy shit you guys

    XBL: mosssnack12
    bnet: moss*1454
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Congrats!!!!! Here's hoping the luck continues for all of us looking for that E-7.

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Iceman.USAFIceman.USAF Major East CoastRegistered User regular
    Bloodycow wrote: »
    The army doesn't have any identity and in the struggles to find a new one it's just ruining everyone's moral and will to make this a career.

    That's a large problem for the Air Force as well.

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    furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    I commission in few weeks. OCS was a blast but very long. I even got the dream branch selection of aviation.

    Problem though, had a flight physical a few weeks back and it turned up an abnormal ekg. On Thursday I have a stress test/echo being done. I don't have any problems with physical fitness, but I'm a little worried.

    Edit:

    All Clear! I was a bit worried because cardiomyopathy runs in my family. Looks like I'm going to Rucker. What a journey this has been... Joined 3 years ago, went to basic then AIT. A year later I started OCS. Now, 18 months later I'm ready to commission. Then in May I'll sell my house, quit my job, and move my family down to Ft. Rucker for 2 years of flight school. I didn't realize how rare an aviation slot going to an OCS candidate was until phase 3. I was the only OC out of almost 200 that branched aviation.

    I joined right around the time my son was conceived and I won't be finished training until he is about 5. Now that medically I'm cleared I can start thinking about what comes next again! Man, my run today was soo good after finding out that news and knowing I could really push myself.

    furbat on
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    This wait for for the SFC board results are killing me. Hopefully someone gets a hold of the preposition list before I go to bed. That way I can either go to bed pissed off or happy. Stressing out over this won't be very conducive to falling asleep.

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    Did you make it @Bloodycow ?

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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Every day i visit the Pentagon clinic someone is having a heart attack.

    Government employees have a heart attack problem.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    Every day i visit the Pentagon clinic someone is having a heart attack.

    Government employees have a heart attack problem.

    Its because if you try to do anything preventative in the military you get called a bitch and told to suck it up. Then by the time you go to the doctors its because your shit is totally fucked. The stress from that kind of attitude/culture messes people up. It's a leadership problem.

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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Enigmedic wrote: »
    Cantido wrote: »
    Every day i visit the Pentagon clinic someone is having a heart attack.

    Government employees have a heart attack problem.

    Its because if you try to do anything preventative in the military you get called a bitch and told to suck it up. Then by the time you go to the doctors its because your shit is totally fucked. The stress from that kind of attitude/culture messes people up. It's a leadership problem.

    It turns into this
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3441290/Air-Force-Major-General-FAINTS-middle-press-briefing-120billion-budget.html

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    List leaked for Captains. I didn't make it.

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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Sorry @Waffen I didn't make the 7 list either :( Next year though!

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    I might be boned. I got a derregoatory OER as a second lieutenant.

    I was the fall guy for a bulk miles gear draw gone bad. Commander fired me at the time and tried to state that I was the single point of failure for it. The IO did his investigation and discovered that I was not at fault and there was a cover up involving the XO and the number 1 LT in the squadron, and an NCO. Same time my commander just came up on a piss test for being a pain pill popper. So instead of doing the right thing and redoing the OER my senior rater instead changed the oer from Relief for Cause to annual but instead checked the capable block.

    What this means is I get paired with all of the DUIs and ethics violation Officers for promotion purposes.

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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    That...that is some horse shit.

    I don't know what else to say.

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    RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Waffen wrote: »
    I might be boned. I got a derregoatory OER as a second lieutenant.

    I was the fall guy for a bulk miles gear draw gone bad. Commander fired me at the time and tried to state that I was the single point of failure for it. The IO did his investigation and discovered that I was not at fault and there was a cover up involving the XO and the number 1 LT in the squadron, and an NCO. Same time my commander just came up on a piss test for being a pain pill popper. So instead of doing the right thing and redoing the OER my senior rater instead changed the oer from Relief for Cause to annual but instead checked the capable block.

    What this means is I get paired with all of the DUIs and ethics violation Officers for promotion purposes.

    Can you get a copy of the IO report? I don't know if there is an office you could plea the case to, but having that report could be handy.

    Radiation on
    PSN: jfrofl
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Yeah, the reason that I think I didn't get picked up this year is that I failed an APFT (was having serious muscle fatigue from doing too much crossfit). Fast forward a week and I'm in the ICU for a 6 days with the post's worst case of Rhabdo. My command didn't care and still kept the APFT flag. I recovered enough to pass the APFT 30 days later and the flag was removed.

    I have a bad feeling that even though I had a fucking amazing NCOER (besides my Presence being 'Met Standard') it didn't mention anything about coming back from a failed APFT and illness. I thought omission would have been better then putting it on there. So I think they seen the flag I had for 30 days and decided I shouldn't be picked up.

    I was rated by a GS13 and Maj(P) too, don't know if that hurt or helped as I don't have a green suiter to be my rater in my CoC.

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Radiation wrote: »
    Waffen wrote: »
    I might be boned. I got a derregoatory OER as a second lieutenant.

    I was the fall guy for a bulk miles gear draw gone bad. Commander fired me at the time and tried to state that I was the single point of failure for it. The IO did his investigation and discovered that I was not at fault and there was a cover up involving the XO and the number 1 LT in the squadron, and an NCO. Same time my commander just came up on a piss test for being a pain pill popper. So instead of doing the right thing and redoing the OER my senior rater instead changed the oer from Relief for Cause to annual but instead checked the capable block.

    What this means is I get paired with all of the DUIs and ethics violation Officers for promotion purposes.

    Can you get a copy of the IO report? I don't know if there is an office you could plea the case to, but having that report could be handy.

    I tried to do a rebuttal to the OER last year. The board responded that I needed to gather more evidence because the most I proved was that my Rater didn't like me and had issues, but I didn't prove that I "didn't serve poorly" during that rated time. Doing a counseling with no evidence of poor performance is enough to say, "You aren't performing".

    It was coincidental that I ran into the IO last year at Fort Huachuca. That Captain was the one who told me about everything that happened behind the scenes. In his report, he mentioned to me that I should be reinstated as a Platoon Leader, and that the individuals involved receive UCMJ for integrity violations. He told me our LTC instead fixated on "going after me" and not those responsible. He (The IO) was relieved though to hear that I didn't get charged in the end.

    I thought about emailing him for his findings and recommendations from time to time, but I never did it. What frustrates me though at the end of the day is those two Lieutenants are now Captains and that NCO made the 7 List. Meanwhile LT Waffen will be lucky to make it to Captain at this point for doing the right thing.
    Yeah, the reason that I think I didn't get picked up this year is that I failed an APFT (was having serious muscle fatigue from doing too much crossfit). Fast forward a week and I'm in the ICU for a 6 days with the post's worst case of Rhabdo. My command didn't care and still kept the APFT flag. I recovered enough to pass the APFT 30 days later and the flag was removed.

    I have a bad feeling that even though I had a fucking amazing NCOER (besides my Presence being 'Met Standard') it didn't mention anything about coming back from a failed APFT and illness. I thought omission would have been better then putting it on there. So I think they seen the flag I had for 30 days and decided I shouldn't be picked up.

    I was rated by a GS13 and Maj(P) too, don't know if that hurt or helped as I don't have a green suiter to be my rater in my CoC.

    I'm not too familiar with NCOERs but are they like the Officer ones where if you fail HT/WT, you too get lumped with the DUIs/Rapists/Murders/Ethic Violaters, etc.?

    Waffles or whatever on
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Just had a conversation with my Branch Detail Branch Manager. Was not pretty. He told me I need to go back to BCT Land from Signal World (Main Branch is signal) to work as an AS3 until the unit "finds me worthy" of being an XO or PL again. I told him to take his crossed sabers and spurs, put them into his stedson, and "with the upmost courtesy and professionalism, to shove it up you and the rest of the Armor branches' ass".

    Lets see how that works out for me.

    Waffles or whatever on
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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    I passed my APFT just 30 days after my failure. So on my NCOER it says that I passed. My 1SG at the time said they would sweep it under the rug, but I have my suspicions that the flag still made it into my board file (the restricted one) so they seen that I had a APFT failure during my rating period, then subsequently passed 3 more during that rating period.

    There is nothing else I can think of, I got my Associates finally this year and another 15 credits towards my BS. Had a top 24% NCOER from my senior rater, got an two ASI's, and three SQI's (and a PDSI) all in this rating period. Then I see people on that list that were in my ALC class (that I made commandants list) back in '13 that were dumb as shit and barely made it through had made the damn list....

    I just wish they would give a 1 or 2 line AAR for why I didn't get a sequence number....

    Sorry about all your troubles, if it makes you feel any better you are at least the kind of officer all of us enlisted here want to work with. I really hope all the bad karma catches up to those fucks sooner or later.

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    Real kick in the balls is seeing the guy on reddit who received a GOMOR for a DUI getting picked his first look. He posted his name blurred out next to the GOMOR for comparison.

    I fucking hate the Army.

    Waffles or whatever on
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Bloodycow wrote: »
    I really hope all the bad karma catches up to those fucks sooner or later.

    It won't. Those people just get sent away for special training so the actual unit doesn't have to deal with them, but then when it comes time for promotions they have all the certs and training and so get promoted.

    I don't know how long you have left in your commission Waffen, but it sounds like you should network really hard with whatever civilian personnel you might work with, especially if you work with contractors. Sometimes you can just get out and go right back to doing the same thing on the other side.

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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    Yeah, I work with a ton of Full/temp term GS employees and Contractors. That is definitely the way to go. If I wasn't indef I could fall right into a GS 12 Training Developer job or a contractor Doctrine, Tactics, Training Instructor for 100k a year, but the army has me for another 4 1/2 years at the least.

    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited August 2017
    I need to research more when my absolute get out date is. Once i hit that one year out marker I can start ACAPing and preparing to get out. Just don't know what I want to do exactly other than needing that drive to serve/work for a cause. I could never work for a profit driven company. There's nothing motivating for me to work towards any kind of profit margin. I'd be bored to death.

    As for career. I tell all my coworkers that I'll be fine, I don't think anyone realizes just how screwed you are if you get a crazy/psycho rater who decides to end your career and a weak Senior Rater that lets it happen. More suck when it happened on your first OER in K/D assignment. The only saving grace I might have at this point is I'll have six OERs for the next board and HRC's website "claims" they only look at your last five.

    Waffles or whatever on
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    furbatfurbat Registered User regular
    I just commisioned. Next stop is flight school.

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    Space PickleSpace Pickle Registered User regular
    Highway to the danger zone!

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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    How did you guys handle transitioning anyway? It's starting to look like my chances for promotion aren't good mostly due to bad luck. The whole transition to civilian life right now looks terrifying since I've been doing this military thing for close to a decade and let's face it, by 10 years, you're already indoctrinated and institutionalize.

    Only positive note though is my BC recognizes that I was done a disservice by my branch detail organization and wants to recommend me to go warrant towards the CID route or any other warrant options that might be open.

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    RadiationRadiation Registered User regular
    I'm a contractor, and hearing people being let go with little/no notice at first freaked me out. Still worries me, but I'm building the savings up to float longer and building the network to where I shouldn't have to worry as much.

    Build your network of contacts up. I think that was what really hurt me (that and getting out around government shutdown time 2013). I didn't stay in touch with people that got out or contractors I had worked with. Work a bit on translating military accomplishments to a civilian resume, that was also hard for me and something I'm still working on.

    My transition was done after 8 years and I was burned a bit on things. So that may have helped my attitude towards transition.

    I'd suggest looking at GS jobs that are either similar to what you're doing now or near what you want to be doing. GS would allow you to put your time served into their system for retirement (so you can not have 'wasted' those years), and it still gets you in the service mindset. Contracting isn't bad, depending. There are certainly horror stories, as there are with everything.

    For perspective though, the outside isn't all that bad. I had a bunch of people ask 'What are you going to do when you get out' in that tone of voice that suggests there are no jobs anywhere. It felt like a cult response. If only 1% of the population serves, then 99% of the population does just fine without serving. Plus you have 10 years of doing some amazing shit, and have a clearance, and being willing to put in blood/sweat/tears into the job.

    You'll be fine. If you need help reach out.

    PSN: jfrofl
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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    Waffen wrote: »
    How did you guys handle transitioning anyway? It's starting to look like my chances for promotion aren't good mostly due to bad luck. The whole transition to civilian life right now looks terrifying since I've been doing this military thing for close to a decade and let's face it, by 10 years, you're already indoctrinated and institutionalize.

    Only positive note though is my BC recognizes that I was done a disservice by my branch detail organization and wants to recommend me to go warrant towards the CID route or any other warrant options that might be open.

    The Army lets people go from commissioned to warrant officers? I've never even heard of that. I know warrants get often get more respect than junior officers, but it is technically a demotion, right?

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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    I'd only do it if I were going Pilot. I would never go anywhere near the MP Corps. The quality of the MP Corps is something to be desired.

    Breakdown of the promotion list came out today. 99% to make Captain and I'm the fucker that rolled the 1%. God fucking damnit. More rage when I realized 3/7 Armor Officers that didn't make it this year were from my Battalion. Ironically, we all had the same exact jobs that net us the bad OERs. Headquarter Platoon Leaders.

    Waffles or whatever on
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    Waffen wrote: »
    I'd only do it if I were going Pilot. I would never go anywhere near the MP Corps. The quality of the MP Corps is something to be desired.

    Breakdown of the promotion list came out today. 99% to make Captain and I'm the fucker that rolled the 1%. God fucking damnit. More rage when I realized 3/7 Armor Officers that didn't make it this year were from my Battalion. Ironically, we all had the same exact jobs that net us the bad OERs. Headquarter Platoon Leaders.

    Pretty sure that is indicative of a problem with the unit. Not really sure what recourse you could take to get someone to shine a light on the unit (probably none), but I might look around. What's the worst that could happen, stay an LT for longer?

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    Waffles or whateverWaffles or whatever Previously known as, I shit you not, "Waffen" Registered User regular
    Sorry for all of my ranting the last week. It opened some bad memories and unresolved personal issues relating to the job.

    Do you guys know of anyone who got out to work for the Government, specifically in the Intelligence Community side of the house? The big thing for me getting out is that I have a big committment to continue serving the nation. I can't imagine myself being happy working for a job that works for quarterly or annual profit margins. I'd prefer to do something that has more meaning in life.

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    BloodycowBloodycow Registered User regular
    " I am a warrior, so that my son may be a merchant, so that his son may be a poet.”
    ― John Quincy Adams
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    mosssnack wrote: »
    Well fuck me, it happened. I'm a Chief select. Holy shit you guys

    Congrats! No luck for me but I know most of the people that made it in my rate and they all deserve it so I'm not too torn up about it.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Though in slightly cheerier news, I got to be a proud sea dad and pin my guy's fish during a swim call. Dude destroyed that qual and knocked it out in a couple months while keeping on top of his 12 hour shifts. Other sailors were already halfway done when he showed up, are still working on it, and now they are shamed.

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    DiplominatorDiplominator Hardcore Porg Registered User regular
    edited September 2017
    That's rad as hell. I'm just starting to work on my first qual and I am inspired.

    Being an E4 with no warfare device feels so completely fake. Like, people can take one look at me and go noooooooob.

    Diplominator on
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    EnigmedicEnigmedic Registered User regular
    I know where I was stationed the Navy command was forcing everyone to get their eidws pins, and so nobody even cared about it anymore. I would have gone for it (as army) but the different commands wouldnt sign off on it. That kind of pissed me off because there was some army dude who got a navy pin who was deployed in the gulf so there was certainly a precedent.

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