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Possibly getting two job offers? [Update: Got an offer!]
urahonky
Cynical Old ManRegistered User regular
Cynical Old ManRegistered User regular
Hi all,
First of all: ceres I'm sorry for making so many threads as of late. I promise all advice given in the threads has been taken into consideration!
Second: I have been interviewing with two companies for the past few weeks. Job A is with a large company, and I've had two interviews, two tests, and a drug test already. Job B is with a small company (15 or so people) and I've had two interviews. All the interviews have gone well... Well Job B says that they will have a decision Friday or Monday, whereas Job A won't know until next week.
So what's the protocol here? If Job B calls me and offers me a job... Does it look bad if I ask them when they need an answer by? See, to me, it seems like at that point I'm not excited to join that company. On the other hand if Job A offers more money and benefits... You get what I'm saying?
How would you handle this? I'm hoping that someone with hiring experience will speak here.
First of all: ceres I'm sorry for making so many threads as of late. I promise all advice given in the threads has been taken into consideration!
Second: I have been interviewing with two companies for the past few weeks. Job A is with a large company, and I've had two interviews, two tests, and a drug test already. Job B is with a small company (15 or so people) and I've had two interviews. All the interviews have gone well... Well Job B says that they will have a decision Friday or Monday, whereas Job A won't know until next week.
So what's the protocol here? If Job B calls me and offers me a job... Does it look bad if I ask them when they need an answer by? See, to me, it seems like at that point I'm not excited to join that company. On the other hand if Job A offers more money and benefits... You get what I'm saying?
How would you handle this? I'm hoping that someone with hiring experience will speak here.
urahonky on
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I tried that once. The offering company got very offended and insinuated I was wasting their time.
Personally I would take the job, and if the other company offers you a better deal just tell Job A that you got a better offer and can they match it?
Personally, if HR pressed me for a decision that instant it would be a huge turnoff and a possible sign that I wouldn't want to work there at all
Have you gotten the job after you waited a few days? I'm just worried that they'll think that I don't actually want the job. You know?
By the time you've heard back from the second company, you'll probably have not even started for the first company besides signing some paperwork.
This. Usagi is a smart lady.
Sometimes companies need people immediately.
And sometimes they don't. And taking a job and then not long later saying goodbye because you got something better is kind of unprofessional and depending on the field it can come back to bite you in the ass.
"Oh that's fantastic! Could you give me a few days to think about it, and talk about it with my wife?" Something to that effect?
"This is great! If you don't mind, I'd like to talk this over with my wife/husband/dog/cat. I'll get back to you by DATE/TIME."
I've never hired anyone who was even close to being up and productive at a new job in less than two weeks from their first day in any sort of professional career.
Company B is just going to be able to move faster because they're a smaller company and don't have the layers of HR and hiring managers to get through to get you an offer. Let them know you'd like a couple of days to consider it and go back to company A. It may not make Company A move any faster, depending on how entrenched the whole hiring process is. Though if they've had you take the drug test, I would imagine you're getting an offer unless you failed the test.
Congrats and good luck with whichever one you decide on.
The reason why Company A is taking so long (now) is because their hiring manager was out of town for the week... But I talked with the company's recruiter and she told me to let her know if I get an offer and she'll see what she can do about expediting the process if possible.
Usagi I will use that exact line (not including DATE/TIME. :P ) if I decide to wait for the other one as well. I'm just worried they'll move on to the next person...
And thanks Kakodaimonos
Maybe if it's construction. Everything else needs ramp-up, and if it's IT/biz/gov related at all, your ID's won't work the first few weeks anyway.
Company A:
Large company, very reputable. Uses C#, .NET programming. Good benefits? (I've not seen their benefits yet, but I assume they will be good)
Company B:
Small company. Uses Teradata, some Java, WebSphere. Decent benefits (no dental/vision); paid once a month.
I guess I feel like I should wait out Company A because I took two of their tests (1 hour a piece) and holy hell were they difficult.
Also keep in mind that if you get an offer letter, like actually written and mailed/emailed to you, they typically have a Use By date on them.
You'd be surprised. I've worked at large companies that have some pretty poor benefits packages.
You should also think about which direction you want to go in your career technically. Are you interested in moving more towards the Windows/.Net side or more of the Java/Websphere stuff? Would you prefer a more structured environment with more clearly articulated responsibilities? Or more of a free-form environment with less structure and possibly more responsibility?
As a developer in a large company, you have a lot less leeway in what you're allowed to do and what you're allowed to change. Smaller companies usually let you get involved in more of the overall process, from development to possibly customer rollouts.
Bah. Why is this decision so hard?
This was my situation, obviously, but it's fairly normal for us working stiffs to need some time to make the decision. If they did get all weird and had their feelings hurt by it, then like Usagi said, it's probably a bad sign.
The only risk you would probably be running is if they had someone else in mind already, but if they have already offered you the job then it's pretty clear that you are the person that they want to hire.
How does the pay between the two compare?
Jesus Christ don't do this. It is very rude, and on the extremely off chance his current employer (of maybe a week) actually agrees to this, he will have a massive target on his back for pulling this move. Never ever accept an offer and then almost immediately try to renegotiate it.
If you decide to go with the other offer just tell them a long shot came down the pipe and while you appreciate the opportunity, Company B seems like a better fit. No bridges burned, they won't even remember you in a month.
The pay will be about the same, 35K - 40K. And I know what you mean about the dental... I just had a root canal done without insurance: $1700. Our tax return had to pay for it.
I'm still leaning on waiting on the other offer before I decide... I mean, if the other place offers more than Company B, why not go with that?
(Heard that Company A has a free gym membership, and a full cafeteria.)
You don't owe Company B anything, mang. If they call you up today, they'll probably say congratulate you and Fed Ex you an offer letter. It's likely that they won't even ask for a yes/no on the spot.
If something comes down the pipeline that is a better fit, there aint no shame in taking it.
Thanks
You get an offer letter in hand, on paper, from Company B. No verbal offer - you get it on paper. Then you give them the "I need to discuss this with my family, and I'll reply on DATETIME" line. This way, they will not have filled the position if/when you return to them.
If it's not on paper, IT DID NOT HAPPEN. What people say to you is worth exactly nothing.
This should give you a few days to figure out if the second place wants you. If you call the second place and tell them you've got an offer in hand, they'll either have to fish or cut bait at that point.
Rigorous Scholarship
Always look at the entirety of the benefits. Money is good, but access to stuff like that is also good.
If Company A offers you a lot of money, good benefits, and so on, go with them. Small companies are usually not even worth your time as they will actively fuck you in the ass.
This is my additional friendly advice for you, one of your negotiating things should be overtime, I see that you're listing your pay as below $45,000 a year:
Keep in mind, you're not "exempt" even if you're salaried as a software engineer unless you make around $43,000, so, overtime is owed and they can get in deep serious shit with DoL and the government if they don't pay overtime. It's something like anything less than $23/hr (even if you're salaried) makes you non-exempt in terms of, at least, overtime pay. This is a huge piece of your benefits and one you should negotiate with. Tell them you're more than willing to go exempt with the right salary.
Like I said, I think that's been reduced to $23 an hour though.
Urahonky, what Bowen is referring to is the Fair Labor Standards Act, which you can educate yourself about here if you're unfamiliar, along with computer work specific info here
There should be an indication of which status the jobs you've applied for are on the listing
edit: also, the salary test is either $23,600/year salary OR $27.63/hour non-salary, so if you're salaried above $35-40k you'll probably be exempt
1. If they offer you Job 1 on the phone, certainly don't accept immediately. Do ask if they can send you an offer letter.
2. You may also be able to ask for a draft contact - these tend to be where all our benefits/hours are worked out, but given you're US based, these may already be in the offer letter.
3. Someone mentioned that small firms are better for career prospects; I'm not sure if this si true in your area of the US, but I've found that working at a big firm, if it has brand recognition, has been very helpful career-wise. YMMV. Now if this is a small start up, you have the potential to make a fortune and retire at 25, but the risk is commensurate.
4. That said, do think about your career direction language/protocol-wise. Web dev and backend dev can become categories it's easy to be pigeon-holed into...
5. Think about the environment - as mentioned above, how exactly do you want to be working, what is the company like to work for? I once worked somewhere with excellent salary/benefits, but the environment was sufficiently toxic that I was looking again in the first three months; if you think you will enjoy one of these jobs, that is a factor to consider.
Finally, as has been said repeatedly already: Don't commit yourself until you've seen both offers; certainly not until you have seen the first in writing, and had *at least* a verbal from the second. Personally, I'd want both offers in writing before committing to either.
It is acceptable, professionally, to wait a few days to review offers (as Usagi said). Accepting an offer and then reneging looks far worse.
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With that we should be able to compare salary/benefits and other such things that we come to an informed decision.
This is, of course, all dependent on if they call me.
Ugh... You might have just majorly shanked that one, bro. But whatevs, congrats on the new job!
Well The other day I asked them if I would know an answer by Tuesday (just curious on what's going on with the hiring process) and she asked me if I had received an offer yet and that if I did to let her know so she could talk to the hiring manager and hopefully expedite the process for me.