As a New Yorker, I think NYC is a *TERRIBLE* location for PAX East. Hotels are not very close to the convention center. The closest hotels that I know of outside of the one across the street are half a mile away. Most other cities sensibly have multiple hotels nearby (including at least one attached to the center for the staff and vendors). Big cons often have to rent buses to get to the other hotels in the area, which certainly isn't cheap. Maybe the new extension will help when it finally opens up.
Whenever I go to the Javits, I feel trapped there, and the industrial feel of the area isn't exactly friendly to travelers, but there isn't any other place big enough here, and I suspect ticket prices would have to be considerably higher to pay the costs of the center. Note also that cheap food isn't as easy to find nearby as people would want.
Fair enough regarding the hotels. But frankly, a half mile walk isn't that unreasonable. Considering most of the hotels in Boston were far (save the Westin Boston Waterfront, where I stayed) had a reasonable drive/walk and shuttle services were offered. I'm sure the Javits has deals with all of the local hotels to make things a little more affordable for those who have more limited resources.
What is also nice is that the Javits is outside of the Lincoln Tunnel, so travelers on a budget can stay in hotels in north Jersey if needed, and take a bus through the tunnel which would be significantly cheaper than staying the city, and I would also argue that it could be cheaper than staying at even the most modest hotels in Boston due to its location.
While I respect your opinion as a New Yorker, I still feel that NYC would be a superior venue for PAX, and I think they could have even greater numbers due to the fact that NYC is more accessible than Boston.
Fair enough regarding the hotels. But frankly, a half mile walk isn't that unreasonable. Considering most of the hotels in Boston were far (save the Westin Boston Waterfront, where I stayed) had a reasonable drive/walk and shuttle services were offered. I'm sure the Javits has deals with all of the local hotels to make things a little more affordable for those who have more limited resources.
Seaport was directly opposite the convention centre, I believe there were other "immediate vicinity" hotels too, and one of the biggest complaints from people afterwards was how much they hated travelling to/from the convention centre. Now, if you really do mean half a mile... yeah, okay, ignore what I just said, but shuttle services really don't work so well (because everyone wants to get them at the same time in the morning/evening and they get swamped, and/or simply time standing around waiting for them), and walking after 8+ hours around PAX doesn't go well either. Driving would require parking space, which seems unlikely.
What is also nice is that the Javits is outside of the Lincoln Tunnel, so travelers on a budget can stay in hotels in north Jersey if needed, and take a bus through the tunnel which would be significantly cheaper than staying the city, and I would also argue that it could be cheaper than staying at even the most modest hotels in Boston due to its location.
While I respect your opinion as a New Yorker, I still feel that NYC would be a superior venue for PAX, and I think they could have even greater numbers due to the fact that NYC is more accessible than Boston.
PAX is not constrained by accessibility (talking here as someone who travels from Europe, and I know there are people who travel further), but by available space. That said, Javits can apparently host 85,000 ( http://www.pcf-p.com/a/p/7917/s.html ), and while I can't directly get numbers for BCEC, PAX East apparently had 69,000 attendees ( http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/14/pax-east-2011-attendance-69-500-officially-becomes-biggest-pax/ ). So, if they need to expand, there is that option, but I suspect we would be more likely to see an additional PAX.
2 paxs is a lot, and they are thinking about pax Europe. Having another one on the east coast would be crazy.
As far shuttle services, I mean not everyone was able to stay at the westin, andeverypne was able to make it to the event with little problem.
NYC is more accessible given the likely center of what could hold pax. Close to the Lincoln tunnel makes it I think more accessible to a wide variety of hotels both in the city and outside of it. But eh that is my opinion.
Since you live here or nearby, and you likely do cons as an all day thing you might not realize how important nearby space is, FireWater. Cosplayers do not simply come in once from the hotel to the convention center and leave at the end of the day. Many try to change or take a break at least once during the day (if not more), and having the hotel that far away is a problem. Worse is the location for the guests, vendors and exhibitors, so they would have the first crack at the hotel across the street since they would need to rest after the long days there.
What about the big community get togethers? Pre-PAX gaming was at the Westin and the Waterfront already, and lots of other get togethers in other nearby hotels. Again, the other hotels being so far away makes it more difficult to have those get togethers that helps to make PAX a PAX.
Hotels being in NJ is worse as you can't walk over to the hotel is needed but would have to wait for the buses and back. Let's also not forget that most of the NJ buses stop running at midnight. That's a good way to make the year after that a disaster if people come in and have a terrible time trying to get back to their room after the concerts.
We simply disagree with how inconvenient it would be for the non-natives, but having done AnimeNEXT the last few years, and seeing how many cosplayers come to PAX, I don't think it's good to underestimate the value of having the hotels nearby. The complaints about the travel to the other hotels was pretty bad this year if you were in the Back Bay, where people who booked the Westin and were overbooked were sent to. Plus, if you got much swag, you really got bogged down by midday with no easy way to just go and drop them off if you were farther out.
Rnicoll, the walk to the closest hotels really are a half mile or more. A google map search will show the long bocks between the center and the hotels near Madison Square Garden, where many people coming in from Penn Station will be arriving from. Parking isn't going to be that great either.
2 paxs is a lot, and they are thinking about pax Europe. Having another one on the east coast would be crazy.
As far shuttle services, I mean not everyone was able to stay at the westin, andeverypne was able to make it to the event with little problem.
NYC is more accessible given the likely center of what could hold pax. Close to the Lincoln tunnel makes it I think more accessible to a wide variety of hotels both in the city and outside of it. But eh that is my opinion.
I believe PAX Europe is looking decidedly shaky, apparently because of the Eurogamer Expo (to give you a hint about how I feel about this, I'm skipping Eurogamer to save up to make it to PAX East 2012; one of these is in the same country as me, it's not PAX East). I was thinking PAX Mid-US or something, rather than PAX-East(2)!
I thought I remembered "Why on earth did I stay in a shuttle hotel?" was only second to the food hall in post-PAX regrets, though? Possibly a vocal minority, but I really got the impression that travelling was a major pain for a lot of people, and personally I loved being in the Seaport.
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Moe FwackyRight Here, Right NowDrives a BuickModeratorMod Emeritus
People will NOT want to stay in New Jersey and have to rely on public transit to get to PAX. Yes, not everybody stayed in the immediate vicinity for PAX East this year. However, there were a lot of people in that vicinity. The more hotels in the immediate area (and there were several, not just one) the better. From what it sounds like, there's one hotel near the convention center in NYC. Additionally, everything in NYC costs more. One of the great appeals of PAX is the low cost of entry and the good hotel deals, both of these things would be gone if PAX East was in NYC.
Yes, NYCC is there and it works for them, but how many people are traveling from all over the US and parts of the world to attend that convention? Additionally, PA and Reed look at more than just convention center size and hotels when they pick a location. Everything from the proximity of game developers to available dates to labor unions went into consideration when they chose Boston. I see little reason for them to do all that work again to choose a new loaction. Especially considering that when they did the work the first time, they chose Boston. Why wouldn't they choose Boston again, based on those things?
Because we aren't/shouldn't get the full picture of what goes behind Penny Arcade business decision. That is their business, and their's alone. Who knows? They maybe forced to choose a new location in 2013, as again we do not know.
Don't get me wrong, Boston is a good location, however, NYC is more accessible and I think can hold more people. And what evidence do you have that people will not want to stay in Hotels in NJ? also, the hotel prices that I saw (again non PAX rate) were comparable to Boston. Boston is a very expensive city as well as NYC. I mean it really depends on where you stay. As far as proximity to developers, I would have a hard time believing that any Dev that traveled to Boston, would refuse to goto NYC due to distance. Last I heard that NYCC didn't beat people over the head for money either. As far as where all their people come from, I would have to personally see and research it. Though 90,000 people coming from the Tri State area alone is a little crazy in my opinion.
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Moe FwackyRight Here, Right NowDrives a BuickModeratorMod Emeritus
As an upcoming 9 time PAX veteran who has been close to the community that entire time, I think I'm qualified to know that people will NOT want to stay that far away. Additionally, the Devs I'm talking about are based in Boston, meaning that moving PAX East out of Boston will be much more expensive for them.
Also you're forgetting the immense number of students in Boston, including MIT, which is probably the largest school of geeks and gamers on the eastern seaboard. Most of those students will not have the means nor the desire to travel to NYC for PAX.
As an upcoming 9 time PAX veteran who has been close to the community that entire time, I think I'm qualified to know that people will NOT want to stay that far away. Additionally, the Devs I'm talking about are based in Boston, meaning that moving PAX East out of Boston will be much more expensive for them.
Well, yes, but if you're going to base your argument on facts that's going to be dang inconvenient :-D
considering we had 69,000 ish attendees at PAX E 2010 and there was still massive amounts of space left at the BCEC I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about it moving anytime soon.
However, I also think Firewater is correct. We don't know what PA's business plan is and it's probably a waste of our time debating this issue. If PA decides to move PAX, it will be a decision that this conversation will have no impact on. Like he said, it's theirs and theirs alone.
"we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
PAX in NYC just seems like even more of a clusteryou-know-what than it already is, considering how busy and crowded New York is at all times. Sure, it's a great city, but it's not really conducive to what the PAX community seems to be.
Also, trying to organize something all over again in a new place when things are just fine in Boston doesn't seem worth it. I mean, don't fix it if it's not broken, right? And New York is even FURTHER away than Boston for those coming from central/west, so it's basically just giving those on the more eastern coast a benefit rather than really making things more convenient for everyone. If you're going to argue for "centrality" then you'd have to say Kansas or Missouri (though I know those aren't really viable options - that's just a glance at a map!)
Also, if New York already HAS a con, why would PAX move there?
Firewater - New York might be great for you, but there are far too many issues with New York. That's a resounding "no".
The BCEC, while not the best space as far as hotels or dining go, is probably the best place for PAX on the east coast for a bunch of reasons.
1) It's the largest convention center in the northeast.
2) It's in Boston, which is a hotbed for games development.
As far as the idea of having the expo in NY but the hotels in NJ, that's never going to happen. The hotels for PAX need to be under a mile or two from the convention center. Ideally they need to be under a BLOCK or two from the convention center. Putting the hotels in an entirely different city is not a good idea and I doubt it would ever happen.
Also, keep in mind that this discussion is largely moot. As others have said, we have no idea what variables are at play on the Penny Arcade side of things. We're also not going to change much by talking about it here. PA has more than likely put dozens or hundreds more hours into this conversation than we have, and they've already thought of everything we're thinking of. Believe me, a truly massive amount of time and effort goes into planning PAX.
We're also never going to find a perfect venue. Never. It doesn't exist.
Like this, not like the gas station.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
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NYC is more accessible - A 60min, $50 cab ride from JFK to midtown is better than a $2, 15min ride on the silver line to get from Logan to the Waterfront? It's also only a half-mile from the major bus hub of Boston and it's right by the highway. What do you mean by more accessible?
Pricewise, Boston is expensive, but I'd say NYC is still significantly more expensive as a whole. You can manage a hotel room for ~$100 in Boston and only be 30min or so from BCEC via public transportation.
Boston is also a very nerdy city. Rt 128 is a huge tech corridor. There are also a ton of 20-30somethings in the area due to all the colleges. There's also that little place called MIT.
I just dont see the appeal of NYC over Boston for PAX.
I am IRCs resident nerdbro and member of the PokeCrawl planning committee.
Red B/Gold Professor
[15:53] <+juju-work> ArsonIsFun is one of the best people I know.
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RelativioxHalo NerdForerunner shield world OnyxRegistered Userregular
As an upcoming 9 time PAX veteran who has been close to the community that entire time, I think I'm qualified to know that people will NOT want to stay that far away. Additionally, the Devs I'm talking about are based in Boston, meaning that moving PAX East out of Boston will be much more expensive for them.
Also you're forgetting the immense number of students in Boston, including MIT, which is probably the largest school of geeks and gamers on the eastern seaboard. Most of those students will not have the means nor the desire to travel to NYC for PAX.
While I won't keep pressing the issue, I'm gonna call BS on your arguments. It is a 10 min bus ride if you stay in the hotels by the Lincoln tunnel in NJ to get to the Javits Center. Those hotels will definitely be cheaper than boston. Not to mention many people complained about the shuttle service to the BCEC, which most likely took more than 15 minutes.
You being a PAX 9 year vet has nothing to do with any argument about location. Why you think that is relevant really is a head scratcher. Also how many MIT students did actually attend PAX? And consider people travel far and wide to goto PAX, selling out will never be an issue, regardless of venue. Hardcore nerds travel far and wide for this event.
Also most of the above points don't really support any sound/logical argument, and the biggest fallacy was commited by you Moe.
If you know so much why are you even having suggestion threads on this forum? It should be considered blasphemy to veterans like yourself.
Anyways, I just thought it was for good discussion, now I feel it has deteriorated. PAX is a great event and will be successful anywhere it is held.
NYC is more accessible - A 60min, $50 cab ride from JFK to midtown is better than a $2, 15min ride on the silver line to get from Logan to the Waterfront? It's also only a half-mile from the major bus hub of Boston and it's right by the highway. What do you mean by more accessible?
Pricewise, Boston is expensive, but I'd say NYC is still significantly more expensive as a whole. You can manage a hotel room for ~$100 in Boston and only be 30min or so from BCEC via public transportation.
Boston is also a very nerdy city. Rt 128 is a huge tech corridor. There are also a ton of 20-30somethings in the area due to all the colleges. There's also that little place called MIT.
I just dont see the appeal of NYC over Boston for PAX.
NYC has the most extensive public transportation system in the world. Again if you were to compare the cab rides to cab rides, our public transportation to public transportation, your argument is completely invalid.
Sorry for the double post but this a prime example of an argument that is baseless and of poor logic. Really can't be reasoned with.
Firewater no one really wants to go to a rat infested nyc. You can whine and string people along all day long about how great and easy it is to get around that city but no one cares. Boston is clean nice and has been great to the pax community. So how about you bring this up in 2013 when someone cares and there's a small chance the venue will change.
<ZeroHourHero> I have a tiny penis
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks #paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
Calling arguments invalid and saying someone can't be reasoned with, without posting actual data, is just conjecture. Disagreeing with people is perfectly normal even in a suggestions thread, and it's obvious that you disagree, but you're just describing an opinion without doing anything other than saying other people's opinions are wrong when they try to argue with you (or disagree with you).
The fact is, you've stated that you want PAX in NYC (even though earlier in this thread, back in March, you said you thought it wouldn't work in NYC), and others have stated otherwise. As a suggestions thread, that's about all that can be expected. Weighing all the facts in such a way to make an argument that has enough "validity" to prove the point beyond a shadow of a doubt is a huge undertaking that frankly none of us are equipped for (especially considering we don't have access to the inner workings of PAX). We have our opinions, and a few bits and pieces of data, and that's all we can offer.
Just out of curiosity, where does stating "I'm a 9 year Veteran so I am right" fit into your bit about validity. As far as my post in March, I didn't realize how close the Javits center was to the Lincoln, nor did I realize how many people the Javits could hold. So I am accountable for that. I have posted data to support my arguments, I can't say the same for the OpFor.
It also seems that I am outnumbered by the IRC crew for which I have general disagreements with anyway, so I didn't expect much support from them. Again, the likelihood to get through to some of the posters is greatly diminished.
As far as "no one wants it in rat infested NYC" is just ignorant and quike frankly stupid. NYC is the wealthiest city in the world, and the Javits center is in a very nice area of Manhattan.
And this opinion is supposed to be taken "seriously" lol.... enjoy people.
Sorry wrong again firewater Tokyo is the wealthiest. Also people disagree with you because you are wrong. You say that people whine about getting to the BCEC so you propose a convention center that's older than the one in Boston and then suggest that people stay in another state and bus in across a body of water. Sorry exactly what problem did you fix?
The fact is Boston is nice people like it and it's doubtful it will change.
<ZeroHourHero> I have a tiny penis
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks #paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
Actually if you read all of my posts it has been addressed, but since i am not an IRC good ole boy (which i am completely ok with) I don't expect much support from that sub population of PAX.
But it seems that whenever there is a educated disagreement it is met with logic like "I have been doing this for x years so you are wrong" not to mention that most other opinions are completely baseless.
The pseudo intellects in this thread have made their point and I have made mine, but I am curious since you guys know so much, why even have a thread like this?
This thread is for people to post after the event what kinds of things and changes they would like to see.
However, it is NOT a thread for saying what city you would like pax to be in. We see these posts all the time, and no matter how well argued, PA is not going to change the city that pax resides in based on any posts in this thread.
If you'd like a debate on what city would be best for PAX, please feel free to start a thread in the Debate and Discourse sub-forum. The PAX forums are really not the place for it, and it just clogs up this thread.
As for not being an IRC "good o' boy" what I tried to explain to you many months ago, is that if you are going to come into a community being intentionally provocative, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they react badly. You decided because of the outcome of your behavior, you would not like to be part of our community. Please don't come here and be surprised when people have no reason to be "on your side."
"we're just doing what smalllady told us to do" - @Heels
This thread is for people to post after the event what kinds of things and changes they would like to see.
However, it is NOT a thread for saying what city you would like pax to be in. We see these posts all the time, and no matter how well argued, PA is not going to change the city that pax resides in based on any posts in this thread.
Don't really see a difference, a suggestion for PAX East is a suggestion for PAX East.
If you'd like a debate on what city would be best for PAX, please feel free to start a thread in the Debate and Discourse sub-forum. The PAX forums are really not the place for it, and it just clogs up this thread.
With respect, so would any other idea that people had disagreements on.
As for not being an IRC "good o' boy" what I tried to explain to you many months ago, is that if you are going to come into a community being intentionally provocative, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they react badly. You decided because of the outcome of your behavior, you would not like to be part of our community. Please don't come here and be surprised when people have no reason to be "on your side."
Again its a good thing (at least for me). I was never intentionally provactive, I came in to the IRC the first time asking for BYOC information and was met with unnecessary hostility from several IRC members (including you I believe as well.). The forum community is fine, but if "intentionally provactive" is confused with asking honest questions and than firing back when internet insulted, than I am thankful everyday for that
It seems when a disagreement comes up with the mod, his underlings come to the "rescue". Quite the irony considering PAX is supposed to be a convention for ALL gamers, not a certain section of them. I would expect PAX Veterans to understand that the best.
And if you really didn't want to clog up the thread, you would have sent me a private message Can't be that much of an issue can it.
Anyways,
Boston was a great time, I look forward to coming to PAX East again next year (though its on Easter, so I will have to short myself a day), and maybe even get a group of friends to join the BYOC.
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Moe FwackyRight Here, Right NowDrives a BuickModeratorMod Emeritus
First, you cam into IRC to complain about BYOC being sold out, and continued to complain about it. That action did not endear you with anybody.
Second, the spirit behind this thread is to make suggestions for NEXT PAX East, not any random PAX East in the future.
Thirdly, if anybody is clogging up the thread, it's you. These people didn't "come to my rescue". Nobody who posted in contradiction to you did so for any other reason other than the fact that they disagreed with your position.
Now, since the thread has been sufficiently diverted far away from the topic, there isn't really much point in keeping it around anymore.
Posts
Whenever I go to the Javits, I feel trapped there, and the industrial feel of the area isn't exactly friendly to travelers, but there isn't any other place big enough here, and I suspect ticket prices would have to be considerably higher to pay the costs of the center. Note also that cheap food isn't as easy to find nearby as people would want.
What is also nice is that the Javits is outside of the Lincoln Tunnel, so travelers on a budget can stay in hotels in north Jersey if needed, and take a bus through the tunnel which would be significantly cheaper than staying the city, and I would also argue that it could be cheaper than staying at even the most modest hotels in Boston due to its location.
While I respect your opinion as a New Yorker, I still feel that NYC would be a superior venue for PAX, and I think they could have even greater numbers due to the fact that NYC is more accessible than Boston.
Seaport was directly opposite the convention centre, I believe there were other "immediate vicinity" hotels too, and one of the biggest complaints from people afterwards was how much they hated travelling to/from the convention centre. Now, if you really do mean half a mile... yeah, okay, ignore what I just said, but shuttle services really don't work so well (because everyone wants to get them at the same time in the morning/evening and they get swamped, and/or simply time standing around waiting for them), and walking after 8+ hours around PAX doesn't go well either. Driving would require parking space, which seems unlikely.
PAX is not constrained by accessibility (talking here as someone who travels from Europe, and I know there are people who travel further), but by available space. That said, Javits can apparently host 85,000 ( http://www.pcf-p.com/a/p/7917/s.html ), and while I can't directly get numbers for BCEC, PAX East apparently had 69,000 attendees ( http://www.joystiq.com/2011/03/14/pax-east-2011-attendance-69-500-officially-becomes-biggest-pax/ ). So, if they need to expand, there is that option, but I suspect we would be more likely to see an additional PAX.
As far shuttle services, I mean not everyone was able to stay at the westin, andeverypne was able to make it to the event with little problem.
NYC is more accessible given the likely center of what could hold pax. Close to the Lincoln tunnel makes it I think more accessible to a wide variety of hotels both in the city and outside of it. But eh that is my opinion.
What about the big community get togethers? Pre-PAX gaming was at the Westin and the Waterfront already, and lots of other get togethers in other nearby hotels. Again, the other hotels being so far away makes it more difficult to have those get togethers that helps to make PAX a PAX.
Hotels being in NJ is worse as you can't walk over to the hotel is needed but would have to wait for the buses and back. Let's also not forget that most of the NJ buses stop running at midnight. That's a good way to make the year after that a disaster if people come in and have a terrible time trying to get back to their room after the concerts.
We simply disagree with how inconvenient it would be for the non-natives, but having done AnimeNEXT the last few years, and seeing how many cosplayers come to PAX, I don't think it's good to underestimate the value of having the hotels nearby. The complaints about the travel to the other hotels was pretty bad this year if you were in the Back Bay, where people who booked the Westin and were overbooked were sent to. Plus, if you got much swag, you really got bogged down by midday with no easy way to just go and drop them off if you were farther out.
Rnicoll, the walk to the closest hotels really are a half mile or more. A google map search will show the long bocks between the center and the hotels near Madison Square Garden, where many people coming in from Penn Station will be arriving from. Parking isn't going to be that great either.
I believe PAX Europe is looking decidedly shaky, apparently because of the Eurogamer Expo (to give you a hint about how I feel about this, I'm skipping Eurogamer to save up to make it to PAX East 2012; one of these is in the same country as me, it's not PAX East). I was thinking PAX Mid-US or something, rather than PAX-East(2)!
I thought I remembered "Why on earth did I stay in a shuttle hotel?" was only second to the food hall in post-PAX regrets, though? Possibly a vocal minority, but I really got the impression that travelling was a major pain for a lot of people, and personally I loved being in the Seaport.
Yes, NYCC is there and it works for them, but how many people are traveling from all over the US and parts of the world to attend that convention? Additionally, PA and Reed look at more than just convention center size and hotels when they pick a location. Everything from the proximity of game developers to available dates to labor unions went into consideration when they chose Boston. I see little reason for them to do all that work again to choose a new loaction. Especially considering that when they did the work the first time, they chose Boston. Why wouldn't they choose Boston again, based on those things?
Don't get me wrong, Boston is a good location, however, NYC is more accessible and I think can hold more people. And what evidence do you have that people will not want to stay in Hotels in NJ? also, the hotel prices that I saw (again non PAX rate) were comparable to Boston. Boston is a very expensive city as well as NYC. I mean it really depends on where you stay. As far as proximity to developers, I would have a hard time believing that any Dev that traveled to Boston, would refuse to goto NYC due to distance. Last I heard that NYCC didn't beat people over the head for money either. As far as where all their people come from, I would have to personally see and research it. Though 90,000 people coming from the Tri State area alone is a little crazy in my opinion.
Also you're forgetting the immense number of students in Boston, including MIT, which is probably the largest school of geeks and gamers on the eastern seaboard. Most of those students will not have the means nor the desire to travel to NYC for PAX.
Well, yes, but if you're going to base your argument on facts that's going to be dang inconvenient :-D
considering we had 69,000 ish attendees at PAX E 2010 and there was still massive amounts of space left at the BCEC I'm pretty sure we don't have to worry about it moving anytime soon.
However, I also think Firewater is correct. We don't know what PA's business plan is and it's probably a waste of our time debating this issue. If PA decides to move PAX, it will be a decision that this conversation will have no impact on. Like he said, it's theirs and theirs alone.
Also, trying to organize something all over again in a new place when things are just fine in Boston doesn't seem worth it. I mean, don't fix it if it's not broken, right? And New York is even FURTHER away than Boston for those coming from central/west, so it's basically just giving those on the more eastern coast a benefit rather than really making things more convenient for everyone. If you're going to argue for "centrality" then you'd have to say Kansas or Missouri (though I know those aren't really viable options - that's just a glance at a map!)
Also, if New York already HAS a con, why would PAX move there?
Firewater - New York might be great for you, but there are far too many issues with New York. That's a resounding "no".
1) It's the largest convention center in the northeast.
2) It's in Boston, which is a hotbed for games development.
As far as the idea of having the expo in NY but the hotels in NJ, that's never going to happen. The hotels for PAX need to be under a mile or two from the convention center. Ideally they need to be under a BLOCK or two from the convention center. Putting the hotels in an entirely different city is not a good idea and I doubt it would ever happen.
Also, keep in mind that this discussion is largely moot. As others have said, we have no idea what variables are at play on the Penny Arcade side of things. We're also not going to change much by talking about it here. PA has more than likely put dozens or hundreds more hours into this conversation than we have, and they've already thought of everything we're thinking of. Believe me, a truly massive amount of time and effort goes into planning PAX.
We're also never going to find a perfect venue. Never. It doesn't exist.
Organizer of the Post-PAX Party. You should come!
Satellite Theater for life!
Pricewise, Boston is expensive, but I'd say NYC is still significantly more expensive as a whole. You can manage a hotel room for ~$100 in Boston and only be 30min or so from BCEC via public transportation.
Boston is also a very nerdy city. Rt 128 is a huge tech corridor. There are also a ton of 20-30somethings in the area due to all the colleges. There's also that little place called MIT.
I just dont see the appeal of NYC over Boston for PAX.
Red B/Gold Professor
[15:53] <+juju-work> ArsonIsFun is one of the best people I know.
Not until we build it. hehehe
While I won't keep pressing the issue, I'm gonna call BS on your arguments. It is a 10 min bus ride if you stay in the hotels by the Lincoln tunnel in NJ to get to the Javits Center. Those hotels will definitely be cheaper than boston. Not to mention many people complained about the shuttle service to the BCEC, which most likely took more than 15 minutes.
You being a PAX 9 year vet has nothing to do with any argument about location. Why you think that is relevant really is a head scratcher. Also how many MIT students did actually attend PAX? And consider people travel far and wide to goto PAX, selling out will never be an issue, regardless of venue. Hardcore nerds travel far and wide for this event.
Also most of the above points don't really support any sound/logical argument, and the biggest fallacy was commited by you Moe.
If you know so much why are you even having suggestion threads on this forum? It should be considered blasphemy to veterans like yourself.
Anyways, I just thought it was for good discussion, now I feel it has deteriorated. PAX is a great event and will be successful anywhere it is held.
NYC has the most extensive public transportation system in the world. Again if you were to compare the cab rides to cab rides, our public transportation to public transportation, your argument is completely invalid.
Sorry for the double post but this a prime example of an argument that is baseless and of poor logic. Really can't be reasoned with.
Again sorry for the double post.
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks
#paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
The fact is, you've stated that you want PAX in NYC (even though earlier in this thread, back in March, you said you thought it wouldn't work in NYC), and others have stated otherwise. As a suggestions thread, that's about all that can be expected. Weighing all the facts in such a way to make an argument that has enough "validity" to prove the point beyond a shadow of a doubt is a huge undertaking that frankly none of us are equipped for (especially considering we don't have access to the inner workings of PAX). We have our opinions, and a few bits and pieces of data, and that's all we can offer.
It also seems that I am outnumbered by the IRC crew for which I have general disagreements with anyway, so I didn't expect much support from them. Again, the likelihood to get through to some of the posters is greatly diminished.
As far as "no one wants it in rat infested NYC" is just ignorant and quike frankly stupid. NYC is the wealthiest city in the world, and the Javits center is in a very nice area of Manhattan.
And this opinion is supposed to be taken "seriously" lol.... enjoy people.
The fact is Boston is nice people like it and it's doubtful it will change.
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks
#paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
But it seems that whenever there is a educated disagreement it is met with logic like "I have been doing this for x years so you are wrong" not to mention that most other opinions are completely baseless.
The pseudo intellects in this thread have made their point and I have made mine, but I am curious since you guys know so much, why even have a thread like this?
However, it is NOT a thread for saying what city you would like pax to be in. We see these posts all the time, and no matter how well argued, PA is not going to change the city that pax resides in based on any posts in this thread.
If you'd like a debate on what city would be best for PAX, please feel free to start a thread in the Debate and Discourse sub-forum. The PAX forums are really not the place for it, and it just clogs up this thread.
As for not being an IRC "good o' boy" what I tried to explain to you many months ago, is that if you are going to come into a community being intentionally provocative, you have nobody to blame but yourself if they react badly. You decided because of the outcome of your behavior, you would not like to be part of our community. Please don't come here and be surprised when people have no reason to be "on your side."
Don't really see a difference, a suggestion for PAX East is a suggestion for PAX East.
With respect, so would any other idea that people had disagreements on.
Again its a good thing (at least for me). I was never intentionally provactive, I came in to the IRC the first time asking for BYOC information and was met with unnecessary hostility from several IRC members (including you I believe as well.). The forum community is fine, but if "intentionally provactive" is confused with asking honest questions and than firing back when internet insulted, than I am thankful everyday for that
It seems when a disagreement comes up with the mod, his underlings come to the "rescue". Quite the irony considering PAX is supposed to be a convention for ALL gamers, not a certain section of them. I would expect PAX Veterans to understand that the best.
And if you really didn't want to clog up the thread, you would have sent me a private message
Anyways,
Boston was a great time, I look forward to coming to PAX East again next year (though its on Easter, so I will have to short myself a day), and maybe even get a group of friends to join the BYOC.
Second, the spirit behind this thread is to make suggestions for NEXT PAX East, not any random PAX East in the future.
Thirdly, if anybody is clogging up the thread, it's you. These people didn't "come to my rescue". Nobody who posted in contradiction to you did so for any other reason other than the fact that they disagreed with your position.
Now, since the thread has been sufficiently diverted far away from the topic, there isn't really much point in keeping it around anymore.