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"Girl troubles"
acadia
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'll make it as short as possible. Met a girl in November 2009 and started seeing her as often as I could. I lived in State College, PA, and she lived in Pittsburgh. Every possible weekend, I'd visit or she'd visit. It was amazing. We were in sync and mutually attracted to each other. The sex was amazing as well. There was a snag, though.
She wasn't interested in "dating."
I put that in quotes because it deserves quotes. It is a label that she did not want to apply to our relationship. She did insist on exclusivity, though, so I figured "what's the difference?" and decided to accept it. Things continued being great. I graduated college in May, and moved in with her in Pittsburgh. I'd never been happier. I'd fallen in love with this girl, but thanks to the nature of our relationship (not dating), I could never tell her that for fear of losing her. So, things continued as they were until August. In August, she went to London for 4 months (study abroad -- she's still in school).
I was living in her apartment during that time, and we kept in close contact. She didn't want to feel any obligation to "stay" with me, though, so she would repeatedly emphasize that we weren't dating. I pretended to be fine with it, and let her enjoy her time in Europe. By some odd turn of events, she didn't end up seeing anyone in the entire time she spent abroad. She didn't intend to, but she stayed loyal to me. I took this as a sign of our relationship evolving into something that more closely resembled "dating." She came home, and things were great again. We were still living together, still having great sex, still very close emotionally, etc.
Then she met a guy. Another guy. A guy who isn't me. She became friends with this guy, and even started going to lunch and plays and whatnot with this guy. She felt guilty about it, but didn't WANT to feel guilty about it (a la the "not dating" thing coming up again). I was not happy about this, obviously, but couldn't really object beyond telling her I didn't like it (because we weren't "dating"). She didn't like that I didn't like it, but she wanted to keep being friends with this guy. Then it became more than friendship. I left town for a weekend. She had him over. He spent the night. With her. In my bed. I was none the wiser. To my knowledge, they did not have sex, but they did sleep together. Based on the rules surrounding our "not dating" relationship, this was okay. I was definitely not okay.
I did my best to swallow the situation. Here's this girl that I love (who didn't want to "date") starting to become close with another guy. What could I do? I flipped. I told her all of my anxieties about it concerns and hoped that she would see things from my perspective. I hoped she would see how much she was hurting me and stop. Instead, she ran away from the conversation.
She ran to his place. She was looking for somewhere that didn't make her feel like shit. I had apparently, in my misery, made her feel much the same. Not because she was hurting me, but because I was making her feel guilty. Instead of making her happy, I was making her upset. She saw it from that perspective. I was making her upset, so she had to leave. She came back later that night, calmer and more collected, but seemed fine again. I went to sleep because, fuck, I was emotionally exhausted and did not want a repeat just yet.
I did some thinking for a day or so and finally decided that, fuck it, fuck her, I was moving out. I was emotional and not thinking straight. I told her that I was moving out, but I didn't tell her when. She was upset by this, obviously. I had become part of her support system. She was emotionally dependent on me, leaning on me and venting to me when she needed it. I was "home" to her. She saw that I was unhappy. She knew. She ignored it, though, and hoped it went away. She hoped that I'd see logic, that I'd realize that our relationship was not one of mutual exclusivity anymore, but still meaningful to her. I couldn't handle that, so told her that I had to move out.
She saw this as abandonment. She was hurt and angry and felt alone. This guy she was seeing wasn't her emotional rock, I was. She was physically attracted to him, she thought he was cute and funny and interesting, but she didn't know him like she knew me. Even though I'd made it clear that I wouldn't stick around if she were to see someone else, she thought that my feelings for her would make it impossible for me to leave. She hoped that, at least.
Here comes my shitty part. Two days after the initial blow-up, I sent her a text while she was in class. "I'm moving my stuff out this morning. You might not want to come home for that. Just a heads up."
I sprung the move on her. I left in a hurry, knowing in a moment of clarity that if I didn't move out as soon as humanly possible, I would stick around in misery forever. I'd tie myself to this girl for as long as she'd have me and shrivel up in depression. She came back from class while I was moving the last few boxes out of the apartment. She said nothing, came in, gathered a few things into a backpack, and left (presumably to stay with him). At least that's the conclusion I jumped to. I was endlessly suspicious of her. I didn't trust her, and she gave me no reason to. She refused to be exclusive with me, I was jealous, and though she felt no moral obligation to be true to me, I clearly thought that she did. When I saw that she didn't, I bolted.
I spent 1 year and 4 months with this girl. They were the happiest of my life. Now I've moved out at will, away from a girl that I love, leaving her free to see whomever she wishes.
She hates me for moving out. I made her financial situation much more stressful. I made her already very stressful life MORE stressful. Job, school, friends, new pet, little money. Because I couldn't handle it emotionally, I willingly made her life more difficult in an effort to retain my sanity.
Now, here's where I need advice. We have pretty much nothing but mutual friends. All of my friends are also her friends. All of them. Literally. Every friend that I have within a 50 mile radius is friends with her on an individual level. They're not friends of mine who are friendly to her, they are my friends who are also her friends.
Now she claims that she wants to remain friends with me. I know this will be difficult for her because she fucking hates me for making her life harder. It will make my life more difficult because I'm still in love with her. It still hurts (physically, in the chest) when I see her and think of her with that other guy. I know for a fact that he's been sleeping over. That knowledge makes me shudder. I still haven't met him. I don't ever intend to. I know it's not his fault, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but he represents something that I never wanted to learn. She will never love me the way that I love her.
Fuck.
What do I do?
She wasn't interested in "dating."
I put that in quotes because it deserves quotes. It is a label that she did not want to apply to our relationship. She did insist on exclusivity, though, so I figured "what's the difference?" and decided to accept it. Things continued being great. I graduated college in May, and moved in with her in Pittsburgh. I'd never been happier. I'd fallen in love with this girl, but thanks to the nature of our relationship (not dating), I could never tell her that for fear of losing her. So, things continued as they were until August. In August, she went to London for 4 months (study abroad -- she's still in school).
I was living in her apartment during that time, and we kept in close contact. She didn't want to feel any obligation to "stay" with me, though, so she would repeatedly emphasize that we weren't dating. I pretended to be fine with it, and let her enjoy her time in Europe. By some odd turn of events, she didn't end up seeing anyone in the entire time she spent abroad. She didn't intend to, but she stayed loyal to me. I took this as a sign of our relationship evolving into something that more closely resembled "dating." She came home, and things were great again. We were still living together, still having great sex, still very close emotionally, etc.
Then she met a guy. Another guy. A guy who isn't me. She became friends with this guy, and even started going to lunch and plays and whatnot with this guy. She felt guilty about it, but didn't WANT to feel guilty about it (a la the "not dating" thing coming up again). I was not happy about this, obviously, but couldn't really object beyond telling her I didn't like it (because we weren't "dating"). She didn't like that I didn't like it, but she wanted to keep being friends with this guy. Then it became more than friendship. I left town for a weekend. She had him over. He spent the night. With her. In my bed. I was none the wiser. To my knowledge, they did not have sex, but they did sleep together. Based on the rules surrounding our "not dating" relationship, this was okay. I was definitely not okay.
I did my best to swallow the situation. Here's this girl that I love (who didn't want to "date") starting to become close with another guy. What could I do? I flipped. I told her all of my anxieties about it concerns and hoped that she would see things from my perspective. I hoped she would see how much she was hurting me and stop. Instead, she ran away from the conversation.
She ran to his place. She was looking for somewhere that didn't make her feel like shit. I had apparently, in my misery, made her feel much the same. Not because she was hurting me, but because I was making her feel guilty. Instead of making her happy, I was making her upset. She saw it from that perspective. I was making her upset, so she had to leave. She came back later that night, calmer and more collected, but seemed fine again. I went to sleep because, fuck, I was emotionally exhausted and did not want a repeat just yet.
I did some thinking for a day or so and finally decided that, fuck it, fuck her, I was moving out. I was emotional and not thinking straight. I told her that I was moving out, but I didn't tell her when. She was upset by this, obviously. I had become part of her support system. She was emotionally dependent on me, leaning on me and venting to me when she needed it. I was "home" to her. She saw that I was unhappy. She knew. She ignored it, though, and hoped it went away. She hoped that I'd see logic, that I'd realize that our relationship was not one of mutual exclusivity anymore, but still meaningful to her. I couldn't handle that, so told her that I had to move out.
She saw this as abandonment. She was hurt and angry and felt alone. This guy she was seeing wasn't her emotional rock, I was. She was physically attracted to him, she thought he was cute and funny and interesting, but she didn't know him like she knew me. Even though I'd made it clear that I wouldn't stick around if she were to see someone else, she thought that my feelings for her would make it impossible for me to leave. She hoped that, at least.
Here comes my shitty part. Two days after the initial blow-up, I sent her a text while she was in class. "I'm moving my stuff out this morning. You might not want to come home for that. Just a heads up."
I sprung the move on her. I left in a hurry, knowing in a moment of clarity that if I didn't move out as soon as humanly possible, I would stick around in misery forever. I'd tie myself to this girl for as long as she'd have me and shrivel up in depression. She came back from class while I was moving the last few boxes out of the apartment. She said nothing, came in, gathered a few things into a backpack, and left (presumably to stay with him). At least that's the conclusion I jumped to. I was endlessly suspicious of her. I didn't trust her, and she gave me no reason to. She refused to be exclusive with me, I was jealous, and though she felt no moral obligation to be true to me, I clearly thought that she did. When I saw that she didn't, I bolted.
I spent 1 year and 4 months with this girl. They were the happiest of my life. Now I've moved out at will, away from a girl that I love, leaving her free to see whomever she wishes.
She hates me for moving out. I made her financial situation much more stressful. I made her already very stressful life MORE stressful. Job, school, friends, new pet, little money. Because I couldn't handle it emotionally, I willingly made her life more difficult in an effort to retain my sanity.
Now, here's where I need advice. We have pretty much nothing but mutual friends. All of my friends are also her friends. All of them. Literally. Every friend that I have within a 50 mile radius is friends with her on an individual level. They're not friends of mine who are friendly to her, they are my friends who are also her friends.
Now she claims that she wants to remain friends with me. I know this will be difficult for her because she fucking hates me for making her life harder. It will make my life more difficult because I'm still in love with her. It still hurts (physically, in the chest) when I see her and think of her with that other guy. I know for a fact that he's been sleeping over. That knowledge makes me shudder. I still haven't met him. I don't ever intend to. I know it's not his fault, I'm sure he's a nice guy, but he represents something that I never wanted to learn. She will never love me the way that I love her.
Fuck.
What do I do?
acadia on
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She should've thought of the potential ramifications for her actions when she decided you weren't "dating" but moved in with you, had sex with you, and basically started what was a committed relationship. You were short of marriage by a piece of paper, a tax break, and a piece of metal on your finger.
You learned from this, hopefully, and will not make the same mistake. If she falls on hard times? That is not your problem, really, you weren't "dating."
Like I said, keep moving on with your life, and cheer up. It hurts, but hey, at least you're not getting crabs (or worse!) when she decides to do more without telling you.
That's not a "what do you do", though. Talk to people, see who wants to keep in touch and hang out and then do so with them, but chances are really good that you're going to have to make some new friends here. And that's okay. That's good.
At this point your main goal should be to do everything you can to establish a life that is yours.
All of this. I can't think of any reason to maintain contact with this girl that doesn't eventually boil down to "some part of me is holding out that I can get her back."
You're obviously heavily conflicted between the rational side of you that recognizes what Bowen's saying, and the emotional side of you which is hung up on "this girl I love." The heart wants what it wants, but this was not a healthy relationship. Learn from this (specifically about communicating what you want from a relationship) and be better for it.
Look, bowen's right, she was flat out using you. Emotionally, physically, financially, the works. Don't beat yourself up for dumping her - though by her standards you never officially broke up since you were never officially dating. As for the friends thing, just hang out with whoever you want to hang out with. If you find out she's going to be at a shindig, well, you should probably avoid that shindig for the time being. You need some time apart from this girl to get your head straight.
Try making some new friends.
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For your mutual friends, I would say let them know that while you aren't actively fighting or anything, it would be best if they could spend time with you separately for a while so that you can both adjust.
Also, good job for moving out - you now have wonderful memories, and can pursue the kind of relationship that you want when you're ready.
Also this. God, I feel like I need a flow chart.
Not to sound dismissive, but you're not the first person who is upset after a breakup. And, like millions of other people who went through a bad breakup, you'll get over it in time and meet someone new. Just give it some time and it'll be fine.
Rigorous Scholarship
Yeah I saw where it was going ahead of time. She basically wanted someone to be there for her emotionally but didn't really want to be attached to someone. Think of the "nice-guy" situation.
When you say things like "even started going to lunch and plays", that sets off huge alarms. Her going to lunch with another man upsets you? That's really bad.
You are, of course, absolutely justified in having left. Some people can deal with polyamorous partners--some can't. That's just the way things go, and while it's unfortunate that you spent so much time with her without testing that part of you, you did so with the explicit knowledge of what was coming and with the supremely unhealthy hope of "changing" her. You basically led her on about your commitment to her in perpetuating a relationship founded upon something that you did not believe in. To claim that she can't love you the way you love her is offensive and demeaning, because love for one person and polyamorous inclinations are not intrinsically mutually exclusive.
I am not saying this to hurt you, but just so that you don't get into the emotional space of a martyr over this, because this isn't something that was arbitrarily inflicted upon you. You have been in the driver's seat this whole time, and you continue to be so. Now you can use that positively.
Now. All that said, you have to choose. If you don't think you can be friends with her WITHOUT hopes to be more than friends, resentment over the relationship, or a desire to somehow "change" her sexuality, then don't. If you can, then do. If she's willing after what happened between the two of you, be open and communicative with her, tell her your feelings, and work it out, but this doesn't mean that you are obligated to form a new relationship with her.
@ Charlie: That's what I was going to say too, but she DID say to him that she wanted them to be exclusive.
That being said, I will reiterate, I think the OP should have confronted her with his feelings instead of pretending they weren't there.
I don't think she was seeing other people. She had a male friend from outside of their circle and this seemed to upset him greatly.
Who slept in OP's bed with OP's "friend with benefits."
Woops, ok, I missed that.
I still think that immediately defaulting to "she was USING you" is a little reductive and, frankly, somewhat misogynistic, but the blame is a little more equally spread now.
You weren't unjustified in leaving when you were hurt, but make sure that you learn from the experience and understand that chemistry isn't everything. You and this girl wanted fundamentally different things out of the relationship, and that's too big a hurdle to try to change with nothing but hope.
EDIT: She did say exclusive, but she also said they weren't dating. Exclusively not dating isn't what OP wanted.
And he was being deceptive when he continued to pretend as though he was happy in a relationship that he disagreed with a very basic aspect of.
So she isn't a bitch and he isn't an innocent, sweet guy, they are two people who were trying to be in a content and mutually beneficial relationship that couldn't manage it. It happens, no need to demonize her, time to move on.
I may have missed it, but where was the term "friends with benefits" used?
There was never any proof of her and this other guy having anything romantic going on. While, yeah, sleeping in the same bed is a little suspect, it's not definitive proof of anything.
Fuck her. Relationship's done man.
Dude, this had nothing to do with your emotional shortcomings. She was touching your winky in exchange for financial/emotional support.
That's fucked up and you shouldn't have to be on the backburner paying half the rent/utilities for someone who was basically exploiting your emotions.
It hurts, but move on. Call your bros for some booze time and fuck anyone that chooses her side over yours. They're shitty people/friends.
O_o
You are not going to be able to be friends with her for a long time, if ever, because you have these feelings of affection and also probably of resentment that are going to be difficult to work through. So do yourself a favor and let her get on with her life while you get on with yours.
And let this be a lesson that lying to yourself and your partner is a bad idea.
Given the information I was presented, this relationship looked like a duck, smelled like a duck, quacked like a duck, fooled around like a duck, and agreed to exclusivity like a duck (not to mention lived together like a duck). So even if one of the people involved said "we're totally not a duck," I'm inclined to call it a duck.
This is an enormously vitriolic approach to things. If you want to pin all the relationships failings on her and remember yourself as the tragic hero, do things this way. If you want to come out of this a stronger and more thoughtful person with a better understanding of what you need from a relationship, I recommend you give things a little more thought than this.
Pretty sure her actions contradict her words.
It's relatively difficult to have an exclusive sexual relationship while moving in with someone, getting a pet with them, and pretty much doing what married/commonwealth/same sex couples do.
Regardless of what she said. I agree, he was boneheaded, but that doesn't excuse either side's behavior of treating one person like a sex object, hypothetically, or the other side like a rational human being.
Yes that was a loaded statement.
You're making a lot of assumptions and perpetuating a lot of stereotypes here.
Usagi is spot-fucking-on here.
I don't really give a shit how much this LOOKED like a different kind of a relationship. She was straightforward with you about things that you lied to her about. She was also apparently misleading about things that were important to you. Both of you can learn from this. Full stop.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, a doctor, or a garbage man.
BD knows the score.
Whether or not she is poly, kinbote, the bottom line is he bent over backwards trying to cope with the rules this girl laid out from the get-go and left because those rules are making him miserable-- that's his prerogative and IMO, I think "Good on ya!" for the OP!
I went through a very similarly bad relationship with the same type of double-standard "rules" and getting out of that mess was the smartest move I could have made. Do not turn back. With regard to the friends thing-- some of your old friends might stick around, some might not, but there are always new friends to be made somewhere else.
Get into a hobby you like and find a Meetup for it or something.
Pittsburgh is a big enough area that you should be able to find a new social group without a ton of trouble but it might take a little time. (my family's originally from the Castle Shannon area and Pittsburgh is one of my favorite places on Earth.... yeah, I know I'm weird.)
It is not the OP's fault that she's going to struggle financially because of this. She should take it up with the new boyfriend. This is a pretty classic niceguy bill of goods on the part of the "not dating" girl.
edit: not that I'm saying the OP did everything right, but this girl's behavior was devious with the purpose of using him, and it is totally OK to put one's foot down and walk away from a relationship like that.
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The Mad Writers Union
Yeah, no it's not. Genders can very easily be reversed here and it still works, and it happens with both genders reversed, so no, this is not misogynistic.
Girl: "We're not in a relationship and I may pursue other dudes"
Boy: "I'm ok with that if it means I get to spend time with you"
Except that he obviously wasn't.
If he didn't want to be in a non-committed poly/plural relationship it was his responsibility to speak up.
Maybe she "used" him, but he "used" her just as much.
Edit: Just to clarify, a double standard would be if they both wanted to hook up with others, and she said that she could but he wasn't allowed to. THAT'S a double standard.
So you are demonizing a girl based on the sort of relationship she wants to have? I honestly think you are projecting your own normative views of a relationship onto this--it doesn't matter how much what they did looks like "dating," she was straightforward and honest with him, and he did not reciprocate. I don't see anything wrong at all with her distaste for labels.
Just because I don't say, "murder" doesn't mean killing someone isn't. She intentionally mislead him into believing they were having an exclusive relationship while perchance she might leave if she finds something better. That is pretty much text book definition for "dating."
Do your best to get over her. She was using you, emotionally. She wanted her cake and to eat it too, but that's just not how it works. Consider this a "lesson learned". To be fair, she did tell you that she wasn't wanting to date you.. but moving in together was a bad idea, considering how emotionally attached you became (and she didn't reciprocate).
Good on you to move out, and be it a hasty decision or not, it was the right decision to make. Just move on, man.. things will get better.
I'm not disagreeing with that.
Speaking from the perspective of having been in a similar situation before, what I can say is that it is entirely possible to convince yourself that you ARE okay with something and that when it actually happens, it turns out that you're NOT okay with it.
Self deception is not always known immediately when it occurs. And I'd say that the OP was at least trying to cope with his mistake for a while before springing it on her that he couldn't deal with it. I can't tell from these posts but I don't think a heart to heart about a well... change of heart, was going to fix things.
so the next best thing is to up and get out of that mess and walk away.
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And then she went to plays and lunch and anyone here would tell him to get over that, except she slept next to the dude in the OP's bed. Which definitely crosses a line if that's not established as okay.
When he got upset, instead of discussing it and trying to compromise and trying to deal with the trust issue at hand like an adult interested in a poly/plural relationship, she ran off to the house of this other guy and cried that the OP was ruining her life.
OP, I hope you understand that this is a person you are in every way better off without.