As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/

Today's Topic: Bullying

SliderSlider Registered User regular
edited March 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
I assume all of you have seen the video of Casey Heynes: an Australian kid who got sick of being bullied. If you have not yet seen it, I found a nice blog that adds a personal element to what Casey and other people who are bullied experience.

Here.

When I was young, I don't recall ever really being bullied. In elementary school, there were some big kids who would chase me around. If they caught me, they would just hold me and that was it. No big deal, but I didn't like it.

I recall another time when I felt like I was being bullied so, like a crazed monkey, I jumped on the kid when he turned around, grabbed a huge chunk of hair on his head and tried to pull it all out. He started to cry and we got in trouble, but he never picked on me again.

I didn't have any problems in middle school and very few problems in high school.

I remember one of the few black kids at my high school saying hello and patting me on the back after he had been eating cheetos. I didn't know he had gotten that cheesy crap all over the back of my shirt until my friend pointed it out. I was angry, but didn't plan on doing anything about it, until my friend said to me, "Look what he did!? Are you just going to take that!?"

After my friend managed to get my blood pumping, I walked over to the kid and pushed him. I was surprised when he flew through the air and landed on the ground. I was shocked and didn't know what to do, except to pick up his can of pop that had dropped out of his hand when he landed.

He wanted to fight me, but we never did. I went to class and he never bothered me again. I think he told people that I attacked him, because he was black.

Feel free to share your stories about bullying.

Slider on
«13456713

Posts

  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It's an interesting story, but I think it is hardly a time to say Casey Heynes "FTW".

    That guys anecdote is valid, I guess, but the times we live in today are completely and utterly different.

    I was never severely bullied in school, but I was the butt of some jokes and in my group of friends I was always the one that ate the most shit from everyone else. It was tough.

    I feel for kids that are/were severely bullied and I did my part to, when I was in any position of popularity in high school, never bully anyone. I just didn't have it in me.

    I just can't justify Heynes response, if only from a standpoint of safety. That kid looked mighty fucked up afterwards. He probably had the wind knocked out of him and has a few bone bruises to show for it. He also will leave Heynes alone, more likely than not.

    But if Heynes dropped that kid a little more angrily, maybe with a little more force, you have a situation where that kid's neck is broken. He drops that kid on his head and you have a situation where the kid is brain damaged.

    The way litigation works, you've then got a situation on your hands where Heynes family is being sued to pay for this kid's medical bills. Nobody wins in that situation, and Heynes has lost a lot more than self-confidence because he "stood up" to this bully.

    It's a double-edged sword. While I can't say that Heynes should've sat there and took it, I also can't cheer him on because of where that could've gone.

    stevemarks44 on
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    1) The first response should be to take it to a teacher. Kids should be learning the proper way to handle their problems, and in a law abiding, civilized society the correct response is to let the law handle the problem.

    2) If 1 does not work, appropriate force should be used. If you are actually being physically assaulted by someone, you do what it takes to make them stop.

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I had major problems with bullying through all of elementary school. They lingered into junior high and high school but between switching schools and getting older I think I became more equipped to deal with them.

    There were periods of time where it was more or less a daily occurrence. The worst day was in sixth grade, some time in April. Some kids were playing Crack the Whip, which was against the rules at our school, but me and one friend were watching them anyway. All of a sudden, some kid pointed at us and yelled "they're gonna steal our shoes" and then a bunch of kids, maybe six or seven of them, came over and started shoving us around and pushed us into the dirt. A yard duty came over and broke up the crack the whip game, but didn't do or say anything about the bullying. Me and my friend ran away.

    After running away, we went over to the edge of the schoolyard by a wooden fence. A few minutes later, we noticed different group of kids, maybe ten or twelve of them, all wandering towards us.

    One thing that's important about this story is that I was born pretty severely pigeon-toed. By sixth grade it had mostly gone away, with the help of braces, but all the other kids in my grade school knew about it.

    Well, this second group of kids, they were all walking towards us with their toes pointed inwards, mocking me. We started to walk away but we couldn't really get anywhere because the fence was behind us. I don't really remember everything that happened because I spent most of the incident with my face pressed up against the fence.

    At some point we slipped away and ran towards the yard duty. She must have seen us from her vantage point. All she did is point to the basketball court and say "Go over there. They won't bother you over there."

    We went over there, I remember being kind of dazed from the whole situation, and the next thing I know there's a basketball hitting the side of my face. It was a third, smaller group of kids, maybe 3 or 4 or 5 of them, not sure, who decided that they wanted a piece of us too.

    While getting kicked around by that third group of kids, the bell rang and we went inside. We were visibly bruised up and dirty, so our teacher asked us what had happened, and we told him. He excused us to go to the bathroom to get washed up. Some of the kids in the second group were in the same class as us, and he kept them there after class, but as far as I could tell, no other disciplinary action was ever taken.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • NightslyrNightslyr Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I read that the bully had been picking on Casey for four years. If that's the case, then the adults in their lives failed. I can't put any blame on Casey if that's the case. I mean, if the people who are supposed to take care of this shit and stop it from happening don't, then what's the kid to do?

    Of course, I say this if what I read is true.

    Nightslyr on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I just can't justify Heynes response, if only from a standpoint of safety. That kid looked mighty fucked up afterwards. He probably had the wind knocked out of him and has a few bone bruises to show for it. He also will leave Heynes alone, more likely than not.

    But if Heynes dropped that kid a little more angrily, maybe with a little more force, you have a situation where that kid's neck is broken. He drops that kid on his head and you have a situation where the kid is brain damaged.

    I largely agree with you. he was suplexed onto concrete. That could have been terribad.

    I don't expect a kid of that age to be able to make that kind of calculus in the moment, though. We train police how to take down somebody without seriously injuring them; I don't think we should have to teach similar techniques to children.

    This is part of the reason (though clearly not the only reason) that adults absolutely need to intervene with bullying. The idea that "it toughens you up" is bullshit. Even if a kid ends up tough enough to deal with it, you're still inviting the potential for somebody to get seriously hurt.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Things.

    I can't understand how someone would say "You should let other people punch you in the face, because if you react you might hurt them."

    Doesn't even parse.

    adytum on
  • KruiteKruite Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I was bullied throughout much of my gradeschool life, but you want to know what's worse than a fellow student bullying you? A teacher doing it.

    Kruite on
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
    The quality of the video was bad so I could be wrong but it seemed to me like the kid who got thrown was laughing or smiling afterwards. Which I took as him, despite the hurt, being pleased at riling the guy up.

    It hasn't seemed to me that responding violently to bullies ends the bullying, it's more likely to accelerate it. But I can easily see why you would resort to violence since it's usually one guy versus many, and if school is still like I remember it you get little to no assistance from anyone - either young or adult - to improve your situation.

    Honk on
    PSN: Honkalot
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    i always feel a little ill-equipped to deal with these kinds of conversations, because the level of 'bullying' i experienced strikes me as a lot different from that of what i see expressed on message boards. i try to strike a fine line between expressing what i endured, and how that made me feel (and still makes me feel), without appearing as though i'm marginalizing the struggles that others faced.

    i was bullied in a very real, very scary way. it was emotional and also very, very physical. it happened in high school. it wasn't because i was nerdy or introverted; it was because i was white. i went to an almost entirely black high school with a smidgen of asian and hispanic kids, and then me. so i had to fight, well, just about every day. sometimes one kid, face to face, sometimes half a dozen kids, with no warning, and sometimes with bare hands, sometimes with backpacks full of text books.

    so when i hear about someone who got made fun of a lot, i empathize with the emotional element of their abuse, and i do feel bad. or i try my hardest to feel bad. but there's absolutely a point that i can't control where i wonder "well, what did they REALLY do to you?" and i know that's callous. it's not the proper way to regard the suffering of others, so i try to work on it. but now, eight or so years later, i still kind of feel that way.

    so, all that said- no, i don't get the kind of rabid schadenfreude in this case that i've seen a lot of bullying victims express on the internet. it kind of stupefies me that one could have experienced such brutal, inhumane treatment- especially at the hands of those who are, ostensibly, themselves children... which makes it even worse IMO- and gone on to go 'good, vicious little shit got what he deserved!'

    i fought back when i was bullied- a lot of social dynamics led to me shying away from going to authorities (not the least of which was the then-softness on school assaults). so i fought back pretty much from day one. while i can cop to moments of satisfaction when i would win the fights, i definitely don't get that kind of 'yeah, fuck the bullies, knock their teeth out!' general sense of revelry i see in this case.

    like, i know that bullying- especially, IMO, in cases like mine with physical violence- leads to a complex stew of emotions and residual bitterness. i get that. but i would legitimately implore anyone who cheered or laughed at that kid crashing violently into the concrete from five and a half feet in the air to stop and do some introspection.

    Organichu on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I had a kid really try and make my life hell for a couple years. It wasn't just him, actually. Basically, something embarrassing happened to me in junior high and I got made fun of for it fairly often, but this kid went out of his way to do it daily. Actually, multiple times per day if he could. He had also spent time before the aforementioned embarrassing event pushing me around physically on the bus (and would still, when the opportunity presented itself, corner me with his friends and push me around into lockers and such). Basically, he had spent multiple years physically and emotionally bullying me at any opportunity, and had only accelerated this behavior in response to recent events.

    I finally snapped, attacked him, and I think I actually meant to kill him. Luckily I didn't, but I hurt him pretty bad.

    Wound up getting what I'd call "soft expelled." Basically, after a week or so they finally called my mom and I in to discuss what would happen. When they brought up expulsion and pressing charges, she basically pointed out that the bullying had been brought to their attention repeatedly and they had taken zero action whatsoever prior to this assault. So they backed off, and allowed me to continue my schooling in in-school suspension until such time as we could move into another district.

    Basically this fucker, along with others, had made my life so miserable that I no longer really wanted to live it. I couldn't see any end in sight (not uncommon with kids in their early teens). So I no longer cared. It felt as though they had destroyed my life to the extent that the consequences of my actions were no longer relevant. So...I acted.

    One thing that sticks out in my memory was his parents' reaction when they picked him up (I was in the office as well). He had blood all over his face and clothes, and their first reaction was basically something to the extent of "do you see what happens when you fuck with other kids like that?" So obviously they knew their kid was a bully. Apparently, from our understanding, their reaction shifted somewhat when they got him to the hospital and the extent of the damage was a little more clear...but the initial reaction was what struck me. They were aware of what their son was.

    If I had had the decency to just quietly kill myself, the school would have given their son (and the others) counseling to cope with the "grief." If I had instead just let it happen, the school and his parents would have gone on not giving much of a shit at all. But by attacking him, suddenly I was the villain.

    Not that my actions were excusable. I was wrong. But to my knowledge, he was never actually punished in any way, ever, for anything he did to me.

    mcdermott on
  • MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1) The first response should be to take it to a teacher. Kids should be learning the proper way to handle their problems, and in a law abiding, civilized society the correct response is to let the law handle the problem.

    2) If 1 does not work, appropriate force should be used. If you are actually being physically assaulted by someone, you do what it takes to make them stop.

    In a law abiding, civilized society, if someone hits you, you can defend yourself. The law, being the teachers are seldom the course of action and for the most part make things a lot worse.

    The best course of action is to simply stand up to the person who's causing you problems by telling them first to leave you alone and if they don't comply, defend yourself.

    Meiz on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I was bullied when I was younger. It wasn't physical, but taking shit all day, every day, from just about every single person at the school probably had something to do with me being unable to socialize with people and only leaving my apartment when I absolutely have to. I've also suffered from depression since then, for about ten years now, though I'm finally starting to get some help for that.

    So, uh... bullies suck.

    reVerse on
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Things.

    I can't understand how someone would say "You should let other people punch you in the face, because if you react you might hurt them."

    Doesn't even parse.

    It's a question of proportional response. If a bully puts one of your friends in the hospital you don't put one of his in the morgue.

    Even in Chicago.

    I agree with Feral that you can't expect a kid to show proper restraint and it falls on adults to manage these situations.

    Bama on
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Things.

    I can't understand how someone would say "You should let other people punch you in the face, because if you react you might hurt them."

    Doesn't even parse.

    That's why its such a fucked up situation that it should never be left in the kids' hands. The failure of adult intervention is the biggest crime here, really.

    I never said he should let that kid punch him in the face, I'm just saying the response of "fuck yeah" is totally missing the point.

    stevemarks44 on
  • NocrenNocren Lt Futz, Back in Action North CarolinaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I was a slow fat kid in elementary/pre-school so I was "it" a lot. So I tried to out smart my fellow children. Mostly worked.

    Then when I hit middle-school I knocked out a kid during the first week of 5th grade because I was the new kid (new school, new state) and he tormented me every day for that first week. However that action got me labeled as needing "Adaptive Behavior" classes and being given Ritalin for the next 4 years.

    In 8th grade (again, new state, new school) there was a kid with a Neapolitan complex (he was short and was mean to everyone). My step-dad had given me his BDU blouse that he wore through Desert Shield/Storm and I was very proud of it. Little shit called me a well-fare recipient (among other things) so I boxed his ears.

    I will say that I did do some bullying behavior, but I never targeted a single person, and it was only 2 acts during my senior year in high-school, both done to a different random freshman.

    I always felt bad about what I did my senior but I also felt justified in my previous actions.

    Nocren on
    newSig.jpg
  • HamHamJHamHamJ Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Meiz wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1) The first response should be to take it to a teacher. Kids should be learning the proper way to handle their problems, and in a law abiding, civilized society the correct response is to let the law handle the problem.

    2) If 1 does not work, appropriate force should be used. If you are actually being physically assaulted by someone, you do what it takes to make them stop.

    In a law abiding, civilized society, if someone hits you, you can defend yourself. The law, being the teachers are seldom the course of action and for the most part make things a lot worse.

    The best course of action is to simply stand up to the person who's causing you problems by telling them first to leave you alone and if they don't comply, defend yourself.

    Generally speaking, extricating yourself from the situation and calling the cops is probably a better solution than getting into a drag out fight with some guy in the street.

    That teachers do not deal with bullying as they should is the problem. But you should at least give them the opportunity to fail so that afterwards you have a clear conscious (and a better self-defense case if it comes to it).

    HamHamJ on
    While racing light mechs, your Urbanmech comes in second place, but only because it ran out of ammo.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Things.

    I can't understand how someone would say "You should let other people punch you in the face, because if you react you might hurt them."

    Doesn't even parse.

    He didn't say that.
    Honk wrote: »
    It hasn't seemed to me that responding violently to bullies ends the bullying, it's more likely to accelerate it.

    Depends on how effective you are, I guess.

    In lieu of actual authoritative action, in grade school, I was told (by the principal) that I was free to fight back without being disciplined. And I tried it, at first. It didn't really work. I was younger than my bullies (at that time) by 3 or 4 years, I was alone, I was out of shape. I got my ass kicked. On the rare occasions that I actually managed to hurt somebody, all they did was come back with more kids next time.

    Later on, in junior high and high school, fighting back absolutely did work. But by that time, the bullying incidents were rarer, there were fewer aggressors, the age differential didn't matter nearly as much, and I was in better physical shape and had more fighting experience.

    I don't think that's the right answer though. All an eye for an eye does is make the whole world blind.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm with JB.

    Its important to note the general abject failure of teaching staff in Australian schools to deal with bullying in anything approaching an effective manner. Its not all their fault; they're often hamstrung by legal restrictions on what they can do to kids and further constrained by sue-happy parents and State education departments that won't back them up when dealing with troublesome kids. Telling a teacher is not a solution here, and I can say that from experience.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What's proper restraint? Ten punches? Twenty? Ten kids knocking you to the ground and stomping on you?

    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    Look at it through the filter of being an adult. If I'm minding my own business and some jackwad and his friends decide to pick a fight with me, I am within my rights to fight back, even to the point of seriously injuring those attacking me.

    This wasn't a one-on-one thing; there were literally a half-dozen kids involved in this assault sitting in the wings and egging on the bully, any one of which could have jumped in and contributed to the violence had Casey allowed that little shit to continue beating on him.

    What if this were a female student, and instead of picking a fight, the bully and his friends wanted to rape her? Why would she be any more justified in defending herself than Casey was?

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Meiz wrote: »
    The best course of action is to simply stand up to the person who's causing you problems by telling them first to leave you alone and if they don't comply, defend yourself.

    As I said in my last post, all this did was intice the bullies to come back with more kids. That way they could grab me and hold me down while kicking and stomping on me.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I had basically the same experience as this kid, although it didn't end with serious injury for anyone and obviously didn't end up on youtube.

    I agree with the general idea that hey, it really sucks that children are hurting each other, and that the bully is probably in a pretty fucked up social/family situation too, and that it's terrible that this kind of thing gets put on blast on youtube, but...
    It's a double-edged sword. While I can't say that Heynes should've sat there and took it, I also can't cheer him on because of where that could've gone.

    What's the kid supposed to do? I mean, kids who get bullied are put in a pretty impossible situation: the social environment they are forced spend the majority of their day in is hostile to them and every supervisory mechanism that's supposed to protect him from junk like this has failed. Without knowing anything about his background really, this stuff doesn't happen as a result of isolated incidents. The other kid didn't say something to him once and get dropped on his head over it.

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    NREqxl5.jpg
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • MeizMeiz Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    Meiz wrote: »
    HamHamJ wrote: »
    1) The first response should be to take it to a teacher. Kids should be learning the proper way to handle their problems, and in a law abiding, civilized society the correct response is to let the law handle the problem.

    2) If 1 does not work, appropriate force should be used. If you are actually being physically assaulted by someone, you do what it takes to make them stop.

    In a law abiding, civilized society, if someone hits you, you can defend yourself. The law, being the teachers are seldom the course of action and for the most part make things a lot worse.

    The best course of action is to simply stand up to the person who's causing you problems by telling them first to leave you alone and if they don't comply, defend yourself.

    Generally speaking, extricating yourself from the situation and calling the cops is probably a better solution than getting into a drag out fight with some guy in the street.

    That teachers do not deal with bullying as they should is the problem. But you should at least give them the opportunity to fail so that afterwards you have a clear conscious (and a better self-defense case if it comes to it).

    This is simply terrible advice for a child going through these kind of stressful events. It leads to a child going from feeling helpless to even more helpless when the help that is requested is insufficient.

    As for situations as an adult, most times, you can't simply just say "hold on a second while I call the cops" after someone threw a punch.

    Please, if you're a parent, don't do this. Instill your child with confidence and tell them that you are behind them 100%.

    Meiz on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What's the kid supposed to do?
    delroland wrote: »
    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    I don't understand why there's so much focus on Heynes and so little focus on the school system.

    I don't accept "Feral, we already know that schools suck at stopping bullies!" as a justification.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • BamaBama Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    delroland wrote: »
    What's proper restraint? Ten punches? Twenty? Ten kids knocking you to the ground and stomping on you?

    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    From a self-defense perspective proper restraint is doing what you need to do to exit the situation. You seem to be thinking of this as some sort of punitive action.

    Bama on
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    Could this kid have been more seriously hurt if he'd been dropped at just a slightly different angle? Sure. Do I care? Not a fucking bit.

    Frankly, the kid should thank his fucking stars that he got away with a broken tibia (what I've heard), and not a bullet to the gut, which is where this shit ends up way too often.

    I will absolutely cheer Casey on. The adults in his life failed him, and he basically had two options left to him: let it happen for two more years until he graduated, or take a stand now and drop the fucker on the floor (literally as it turned out).

    Bionic Monkey on
    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    What's the kid supposed to do?
    delroland wrote: »
    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    I don't understand why there's so much focus on Heynes and so little focus on the school system.

    I don't accept "Feral, we already know that schools suck at stopping bullies!" as a justification.

    That's obfuscation of the worst sort. Yes, the school system failed, but that sure as hell did no good to Casey Haynes at that moment in time.

    "Hey, the school has yet to protect me from bullies, and I am being confronted with physical violence. I know, let's run away and tell the school authorities so they can continue to not protect me from bullying!"

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Meiz wrote: »
    Please, if you're a parent, don't do this. Instill your child with confidence and tell them that you are behind them 100%.

    This is what my dad tried to do.

    Yet my attempts to fight back failed because I was young, clumsy, and chubby.

    Was I going to go back to my dad and say, "Hey dad, I'm a fat little faggot, and your advice didn't work?"

    No, but it didn't stop me from thinking that maybe I deserved to get tossed around because I was young, clumsy, and chubby.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What's the kid supposed to do? I mean, kids who get bullied are put in a pretty impossible situation: the social environment they are forced spend the majority of their day in is hostile to them and every supervisory mechanism that's supposed to protect him from junk like this has failed. Without knowing anything about his background really, this stuff doesn't happen as a result of isolated incidents. The other kid didn't say something to him once and get dropped on his head over it.

    I walked nine miles home from school once. I just couldn't take the rest of the day.

    It was that bad.

    One time, when this particular guy and his buddies were fucking with me in the hallway (and had just assaulted me), I ducked into a classroom (this was between periods) to get away.

    But, unfortunately, I was apparently still yelling back at them, and used profanity.

    So I got in trouble.

    The teacher was apparently entire unconcerned about the context in which this event occurred, and the vice principal didn't seem to much are either. Which is to say that nothing was done about them, but I got a stern talking to about how that kind of language is unacceptable.

    Go school.

    mcdermott on
  • adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    Things.

    I can't understand how someone would say "You should let other people punch you in the face, because if you react you might hurt them."

    Doesn't even parse.

    He didn't say that.
    While I can't say that Heynes should've sat there and took it, I also can't cheer him on because of where that could've gone.

    Am I misreading that?

    Sorry, but his response was "proportional." A gang of kids hanging around while their buddy punches the poor kid in the face? He did what he needed to stop it, and left. Gang assault is frequently deadly. The poor kid tried not to escalate the situation until he was being punched in the face.

    Granted, he's not a hero. He's just a kid that did what he needed to do to keep himself safe, and his actions shouldn't be looked on as something to aspire to. I laud him for that.

    edit- I guess I am misreading that, but nevertheless. Point stands. Even past childhood.

    adytum on
  • The CatThe Cat Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm also with this guy.

    When bullying becomes physical, its assault, and should be treated as such. There's no reason to use a different term just because it happens on school property.

    The Cat on
    tmsig.jpg
  • MrVyngaardMrVyngaard Live From New Etoile Straight Outta SosariaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I had problems with bullying up until the time a former friend sold me his weight machine in high school.

    Curiously, the bullying dropped off in proportion to the definition and size of the muscle I gained.

    Unfortunately I have discovered that the bullies far from the playground in the adult world I have inhabited for quite some time do not need to lay a hand on one to do great harm through their cruelty.

    That problem, it would seem, is not so easily defeated with a bodyslam...

    But it is not impossible for us to do better in both cases.

    MrVyngaard on
    "now I've got this mental image of caucuses as cafeteria tables in prison, and new congressmen having to beat someone up on inauguration day." - Raiden333
    camo_sig2.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm also with this guy.

    When bullying becomes physical, its assault, and should be treated as such. There's no reason to use a different term just because it happens on school property.

    Love it.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Bama wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    What's proper restraint? Ten punches? Twenty? Ten kids knocking you to the ground and stomping on you?

    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    From a self-defense perspective proper restraint is doing what you need to do to exit the situation. You seem to be thinking of this as some sort of punitive action.

    Um, no. Did I once say that Casey should have stuck around and beat the shit out of that kid? THAT would be punitive. There is a difference between defending oneself and curbstomping someone whom you have already injured to the point of not being able to/wanting to fight anymore.

    Casey partook in the former, and in that I will support him and any other bullied child who is forced to resort to the same. To do anything else would be to blame the victim, or worse, to throw one's hands in the air and say, "It's the government's fault; they should really do something about that!" without actually having to burden oneself with enacting a realistic solution.

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • OrganichuOrganichu poops peesRegistered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    i guess i also kind of freak out about this stuff because no doubt, if some of the stuff that happened to me/i did in response happened today... i'd have been expelled. i'd be in an 'alternate' school at best, and expelled from the city school district altogether or been sued at the worst. i mean, hurling someone down a flight of stairs, knocking kids unconscious, etc. my bullying occurred when i was 6'1", and my bullies weren't kids either. they were, for all intents and purposes, fights between grown men who weren't yet legally endowed.

    like, i am not sitting in the white house today by any means but if my high school life were relocated to today i probably wouldn't get a high school diploma.

    Organichu on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD interior crocodile alligator ⇔ ǝɹʇɐǝɥʇ ǝᴉʌoɯ ʇǝloɹʌǝɥɔ ɐ ǝʌᴉɹp ᴉRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    delroland wrote: »
    "It's the government's fault; they should really do something about that!"

    A public school is staffed and supervised by government employees who are expressly responsible for keeping the children there safe. Yes, they really should do something about that.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.

    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Could this kid have been more seriously hurt if he'd been dropped at just a slightly different angle? Sure. Do I care? Not a fucking bit.



    Amen

    Deebaser on
  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm also with this guy.

    When bullying becomes physical, its assault, and should be treated as such. There's no reason to use a different term just because it happens on school property.

    Love it.

    Yes. This.

    These are the kinds of things that should be applauded.

    stevemarks44 on
  • delrolanddelroland Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    delroland wrote: »
    "It's the government's fault; they should really do something about that!"

    A public school is staffed and supervised by government employees who are expressly responsible for keeping the children there safe. Yes, they really should do something about that.

    But they obviously didn't. Why should we trust them to do anything differently in the future?

    delroland on
    EVE: Online - the most fun you will ever have not playing a game.
    "Go up, thou bald head." -2 Kings 2:23
  • JacobkoshJacobkosh Gamble a stamp. I can show you how to be a real man!Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    What's the kid supposed to do?
    delroland wrote: »
    At some point, especially when the system fails to protect, victims need to stand up for themselves or they will continue to be victims.

    I don't understand why there's so much focus on Heynes and so little focus on the school system.

    I don't accept "Feral, we already know that schools suck at stopping bullies!" as a justification.

    What on earth do you imagine they are justifying?

    Jacobkosh on
    rRwz9.gif
  • The Raging PlatypusThe Raging Platypus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    The Cat wrote: »
    I'm also with this guy.

    When bullying becomes physical, its assault, and should be treated as such. There's no reason to use a different term just because it happens on school property.

    Love it.

    Yes. This.

    These are the kinds of things that should be applauded.

    That is amazing. I admire the father's conviction, and I'm ashamed to say that I don't think I could do the same thing to my children.

    The Raging Platypus on
    Quid wrote: »
    YOU'RE A GOD DAMN PLATYPUS.
    PSN Name: MusingPlatypus
Sign In or Register to comment.