Should we speculate about whether Gaddafi will retaliate?
I don't see why he wouldn't. He'll keep getting bombed either way. I doubt he can retaliate in any meaningful way in any case, unless a coalition pilot is very unlucky and is shot down.
If he weren't already leveraging the potential genocide of his own people, I'd say that was the biggest risk.
At this point, though, his best option for retaliation is leaving the Libyan oil fields a collection of smoking craters. Obviously, this isn't something he's going to do until his fevered mind actually comes to grips with the fact that he's going to lose his country.
Should we speculate about whether Gaddafi will retaliate?
I don't see why he wouldn't. He'll keep getting bombed either way. I doubt he can retaliate in any meaningful way in any case, unless a coalition pilot is very unlucky and is shot down.
If he weren't already leveraging the potential genocide of his own people, I'd say that was the biggest risk.
At this point, though, his best option for retaliation is leaving the Libyan oil fields a collection of smoking craters. Obviously, this isn't something he's going to do until his fevered mind actually comes to grips with the fact that he's going to lose his country.
Yeah I've been figuring he'd do that too. Saddam did it in the first Gulf War. Good old scorched earth tactics. Pretty disgusting.
Should we speculate about whether Gaddafi will retaliate?
I don't see why he wouldn't. He'll keep getting bombed either way. I doubt he can retaliate in any meaningful way in any case, unless a coalition pilot is very unlucky and is shot down.
If he weren't already leveraging the potential genocide of his own people, I'd say that was the biggest risk.
At this point, though, his best option for retaliation is leaving the Libyan oil fields a collection of smoking craters. Obviously, this isn't something he's going to do until his fevered mind actually comes to grips with the fact that he's going to lose his country.
Yeah I've been figuring he'd do that too. Saddam did it in the first Gulf War. Good old scorched earth tactics. Pretty disgusting.
But Saddam was retreating from occupied Kuwait and was able to set fire to the oil fields on the way out. Don't know where Libya's oilfields are located, but the ones in the south are under the control of the tribes that joined the revolt. I suppose he could damage infrastructure (refineries/pipelines/ports) but that is easier to fix than a flaming oil field.
Lockerbie-style retaliation is a stronger possibility, given that he's done it before.
The carrier and its strike group deployed on January 13, 2011. Accompanying the carrier on the cruise to the Persian Gulf and Mediterranean were Carrier Air Wing One, Destroyer Squadron 2, guided missile cruiser Leyte Gulf, and guided missile destroyers Barry, Bulkeley, and Mason.
Image of stuff
Just want to point out that the class it lists for those destroyers is wrong. They're both Arleigh Burke class, but it lists them as being from much, much earlier classes, since they share their names with those earlier ships.
South host on
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Anywho, nice to see that our opening salvo was basically "oh, and about that 'slight chance of AA fire'" thing. We highly recommend you reconsider static defensive emplacements. Google maps is a bitch when you own cruise missiles.
The carrier and its strike group deployed on January 13, 2011. Accompanying the carrier on the cruise to the Persian Gulf and Mediterranean were Carrier Air Wing One, Destroyer Squadron 2, guided missile cruiser Leyte Gulf, and guided missile destroyers Barry, Bulkeley, and Mason.
Image of stuff
Just want to point out that the class it lists for those destroyers is wrong. They're both Arleigh Burke class, but it lists them as being from much, much earlier classes, since they share their names with those earlier ships.
Wow. Saying we deployed an Evarts class destroyer in the 21st century is only slightly less ridiculous than saying we were sending Monitor and Merrimack.
Wonderful to see the lads are already giving the Dervish army a proper thrashing, though, as ever, our Sacred and Most Illustrious Irish Neutrality comes off as disgraceful shirking when we don't do our bit with the rest of the international community.
Kelborn on
"Let us disdain earthly things, and despise the things of heaven, and, judging little of what is in the world, fly to the court beyond the world and next to the Gods. In that court, as the mystic writings tell us, are the Seraphim, Cherubim, and Thrones in the foremost places; let us not even yield place to them, the highest of the angelic orders, and not be content with a lower place, imitate them in all their glory and dignity. If we choose to, we will not be second to them in anything."
I know we've done the whole extolling the virtues of the A-10 thing before, but goddamn I love me some A-10's.
The quality control on planes should be whether it meets the A-10s level of coolness. If it doesnt, back to the drawing board.
"Look, can we blow half the damn thing away and have it only lose 5% of its killing power? Is it basically a tank with wings? No? Fuck off and get back to the drawing board."
Which is to say that I have been in love with the A-10 since I first laid eyes on it and its specs.
Also, I liked how it was referred to as "technically" being an aircraft.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Is there somewhere with video, pictures, and pilot stories of flying missions in the A-10 that one would recommend? Or maybe it should have its own thread? From the way you guys talk about it, I wouldn't be surprised if it has its own facebook page people could Like.
Back on topic... what are the best ways of having tactical/strategic/diplomatic communication with the so called Rebels so that they can get the best supporting fire and intel possible? Gadaffi needs to go down but I really hope he goes down to his own people's handiwork, this should be their time.
Is there somewhere with video, pictures, and pilot stories of flying missions in the A-10 that one would recommend? Or maybe it should have its own thread? From the way you guys talk about it, I wouldn't be surprised if it has its own facebook page people could Like.
Back on topic... what are the best ways of having tactical/strategic/diplomatic communication with the so called Rebels so that they can get the best supporting fire and intel possible? Gadaffi needs to go down but I really hope he goes down to his own people's handiwork, this should be their time.
The A-10 is what you get when the army looks at aircraft and goes "that's nice, but could you drop it down to about 15mph and make it take a tank shell to the face without stopping? Oh, and can we slap a gun on the front of it with one and a half pound explosive bullets?"
As far as the rebels go, I'm going to guess it's basic radio, and we're going to try not to coordinate with them too much. This is pretty much the UN making a modern revolution against someone willing to use large amounts of lethal force possible.. by bombing the government's military forces into oblivion.
Back on topic... what are the best ways of having tactical/strategic/diplomatic communication with the so called Rebels so that they can get the best supporting fire and intel possible? Gadaffi needs to go down but I really hope he goes down to his own people's handiwork, this should be their time.
You generally have to talk to them face to face, at least at first. One of the key reasons no one wants to be seen talking to foreign journalists is that from the other side of the street it sure looks a lot like talking to a foreign intelligence officer.
SammyF on
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TurksonNear the mountains of ColoradoRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
What role do the Kearsarge and the Ponce have? We're (hopefully) not going to land troops in Libya. And neither one of them have offensive weapons. I guess they could launch Cobra's or Harrier's from the Kearsarge.
And I kinda hope that Qaddafi will open Libya's armories. I think that will turn around and bite him on the ass.
What role do the Kearsarge and the Ponce have? We're (hopefully) not going to land troops in Libya. And neither one of them have offensive weapons. I guess they could launch Cobra's or Harrier's from the Kearsarge.
And I kinda hope that Qaddafi will open Libya's armories. I think that will turn around and bite him on the ass.
Combat Search and Rescue, I guess?
South host on
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
Does Libya even have anything that can hit Canada's F-18s?
After the huge pile of cruise missiles we launched today, I doubt it.
It was the same thing with Saddam in Gulf War 1 and 2, he had a few absolute top of the line Russian and smaller but very high tech french batteirs, including some older but still incredibly potent Soviet SA-3 batteries.
The problem is, any AA you have with a radar component can be detected from a bajillion miles away by an AWACS and then spammed with cruise missiles
I was joking about the A-10s. Where would they take off from?
But once the air defense network is down, I think this would be a great opportunity to test out all our new drones. They should give us great live intelligence 24/7, plus the occasional hellfire should Gaddafi get uppity with armored vehicles.
They don't really need another place to test drones. Aside from Afghanistan, there's also Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia, and who knows where else.
Well drones are capable tank killers and you put no pilots at risk. And to be honest, they have been tested, but not tested against moving armored targets that actually can shoot back
override367 on
0
South hostI obey without questionRegistered Userregular
But the SA-5 is stationary, so there's a good chance they were high on the list to be Tomahawk'd. And I would hope/think that we've got enough jamming signals filling the air, combined with a bunch of active SAM-hunting planes to neutralize their more capable SAMs.
South host on
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
It kind of looks like an SU-22 (a relatively common jet in Libya's air force), but it's really hard to tell with all the damage
Edit: doesn't appear to be an SU-22 on closer inspection, or any of the common Libyan aircraft (but they might have marginally different canopy designs to what is typical). It is definitely not a Typhoon though. Maybe some Libyan MiG variant? I'm not sure
But the SA-5 is stationary, so there's a good chance they were high on the list to be Tomahawk'd. And I would hope/think that we've got enough jamming signals filling the air, combined with a bunch of active SAM-hunting planes to neutralize their more capable SAMs.
Well, one thing to come out of this in the next few days will mean internet armchair generals like myself can either eat crow or be proven right about North Korea's (lack of) threat to modern fighter aircraft, since Libya's air defenses are far more sophisticated
I mean as much as I hate people getting bombed, as long as they're Gadafi's guys I'm all for it, and me being right also means few pilots will die. I hope I'm right about the old soviet AA systems being a relatively minor threat against a modern military.
Honestly, I'm surprised the UK has only (afaik) sent Tornados so far; aren't they meant to be pretty ancient? I would have thought this would be an excellent chance to give the Eurofighter a trial-by-fire. Or maybe the Tory's cost-cutting measures extend further than I thought.
They're not sending the best they have, so far, is what I'm saying.
As far as I understand such things, which isn't that far, the Tornado was used to fire off some Storm Shadow missiles, something the Typhoon (Eurofighter) doesn't do. The Typhoon is more for shooting down the opposition's planes.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
So we get stiff once in a while. So we have a little fun. What’s wrong with that? This is a free country, isn’t it? I can take my panda any place I want to. And if I wanna buy it a drink, that’s my business.
0
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Do we know anything about how the military operations thus far have gone? Did those 100 missiles take out their targets? Are Ghaddafi's troops retreating?
Do we know anything about how the military operations thus far have gone? Did those 100 missiles take out their targets? Are Ghaddafi's troops retreating?
The damage is still being assessed, but state TV is reporting that 150 people were killed in the strikes.
State TV is also trotting out civilians who they claim have been injured in these airstrikes, also saying civvies killed.
While it is possible (indeed, likely) that many of those civilians were injured in those airstrikes, you're not going to see State TV reporting on those secret underground prison cells, or on the civilian families shot by the military during conflicts... or who precisely Pro-Gadaffi forces were shelling when they were attacking rebel-held cities... homes? Hospitals?
Jintor on
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Sweeney Tomtry The Substanceit changed my lifeRegistered Userregular
Libya's state TV is saying that Gaddafi's officials have begun distributing weapons to more than 1million people.
I kind of hope this is true. I mean, that's basically arming the rebels.
Would be hilarious if they armed the civilians, then the civilians turned around and said "Death to Gaddafi"
It would be like "Shiiiiiiiiiiit"
Well it's more that, there were a ton of protesters in Tripoli before the rebellion happened. And Libya only has a population of 6 million.
If they're really arming 1 million people, then either they're arming the entire conceivable loyalist faction, or depending on the idea that the protesters aren't organized or willing enough to say, protect neighborhoods or the like within the city.
Of course, it's Libyan state TV, so more likely it's total BS.
So what does everyone think of this so far? There seems to be a lot of criticism of the coalition action, a lot of people are uneasy with it. I think I'm one of them. But then I think of the other side of the spectrum and that isn't any better. Hopefully this will all end well. How do you deal with somebody that's as crazy as that dude?
Posts
At this point, though, his best option for retaliation is leaving the Libyan oil fields a collection of smoking craters. Obviously, this isn't something he's going to do until his fevered mind actually comes to grips with the fact that he's going to lose his country.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Yeah I've been figuring he'd do that too. Saddam did it in the first Gulf War. Good old scorched earth tactics. Pretty disgusting.
But Saddam was retreating from occupied Kuwait and was able to set fire to the oil fields on the way out. Don't know where Libya's oilfields are located, but the ones in the south are under the control of the tribes that joined the revolt. I suppose he could damage infrastructure (refineries/pipelines/ports) but that is easier to fix than a flaming oil field.
Lockerbie-style retaliation is a stronger possibility, given that he's done it before.
All the more reason to blow them up, if he has forces in the area that are up to it.
Just want to point out that the class it lists for those destroyers is wrong. They're both Arleigh Burke class, but it lists them as being from much, much earlier classes, since they share their names with those earlier ships.
... Really? Ponce?
Hokay then.
Anywho, nice to see that our opening salvo was basically "oh, and about that 'slight chance of AA fire'" thing. We highly recommend you reconsider static defensive emplacements. Google maps is a bitch when you own cruise missiles.
Wow. Saying we deployed an Evarts class destroyer in the 21st century is only slightly less ridiculous than saying we were sending Monitor and Merrimack.
In other news, HMS Victory was also seen heading to the Mediterranean this morning. It has been refitted to act as an aircraft carrier.
France is denying that any of their planes have been shot down, so its all a bit confusing right now.
"Look, can we blow half the damn thing away and have it only lose 5% of its killing power? Is it basically a tank with wings? No? Fuck off and get back to the drawing board."
Which is to say that I have been in love with the A-10 since I first laid eyes on it and its specs.
Also, I liked how it was referred to as "technically" being an aircraft.
Back on topic... what are the best ways of having tactical/strategic/diplomatic communication with the so called Rebels so that they can get the best supporting fire and intel possible? Gadaffi needs to go down but I really hope he goes down to his own people's handiwork, this should be their time.
The A-10 is what you get when the army looks at aircraft and goes "that's nice, but could you drop it down to about 15mph and make it take a tank shell to the face without stopping? Oh, and can we slap a gun on the front of it with one and a half pound explosive bullets?"
As far as the rebels go, I'm going to guess it's basic radio, and we're going to try not to coordinate with them too much. This is pretty much the UN making a modern revolution against someone willing to use large amounts of lethal force possible.. by bombing the government's military forces into oblivion.
You generally have to talk to them face to face, at least at first. One of the key reasons no one wants to be seen talking to foreign journalists is that from the other side of the street it sure looks a lot like talking to a foreign intelligence officer.
And I kinda hope that Qaddafi will open Libya's armories. I think that will turn around and bite him on the ass.
Combat Search and Rescue, I guess?
It was the same thing with Saddam in Gulf War 1 and 2, he had a few absolute top of the line Russian and smaller but very high tech french batteirs, including some older but still incredibly potent Soviet SA-3 batteries.
The problem is, any AA you have with a radar component can be detected from a bajillion miles away by an AWACS and then spammed with cruise missiles
Well drones are capable tank killers and you put no pilots at risk. And to be honest, they have been tested, but not tested against moving armored targets that actually can shoot back
It seems like their http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA-5_Gammon and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-125_Neva/Pechora are fairly advanced, and would be the biggest threat. The SA-5 has a range of almost 200 miles, and the SA-3/S-125 is the one that shot down the F-117 in Kosovo.
But the SA-5 is stationary, so there's a good chance they were high on the list to be Tomahawk'd. And I would hope/think that we've got enough jamming signals filling the air, combined with a bunch of active SAM-hunting planes to neutralize their more capable SAMs.
It kind of looks like an SU-22 (a relatively common jet in Libya's air force), but it's really hard to tell with all the damage
Edit: doesn't appear to be an SU-22 on closer inspection, or any of the common Libyan aircraft (but they might have marginally different canopy designs to what is typical). It is definitely not a Typhoon though. Maybe some Libyan MiG variant? I'm not sure
Well, one thing to come out of this in the next few days will mean internet armchair generals like myself can either eat crow or be proven right about North Korea's (lack of) threat to modern fighter aircraft, since Libya's air defenses are far more sophisticated
I mean as much as I hate people getting bombed, as long as they're Gadafi's guys I'm all for it, and me being right also means few pilots will die. I hope I'm right about the old soviet AA systems being a relatively minor threat against a modern military.
They're not sending the best they have, so far, is what I'm saying.
You say that as though we routinely intervene on the losing side of civil wars and this would be a shocking exception if we didn't.
Choose Your Own Chat 1 Choose Your Own Chat 2 Choose Your Own Chat 3
Oh Al-Jazeera. You classy motherfuckers.
The Tornado is more like an F/A plane like the F/A-18.
The A-10 was designed around the GAU-8 Avenger, which is the coolest name for a gun EVER.
Yeah I knew about the destroyers being Arleigh Burke class because they are AEGIS destroyers, I didn't notice the issue on the map though.
The jet that was shot down in the picture a few pages back was a MiG 23, judging from said pictures.
Also, good morning Libya thread.
- Muammar Gaddafi, a man who has intervened in quite a many internal affairs
"Do as I say, not as I do."
-Parents Everywhere
NNID: Hakkekage
The damage is still being assessed, but state TV is reporting that 150 people were killed in the strikes.
While it is possible (indeed, likely) that many of those civilians were injured in those airstrikes, you're not going to see State TV reporting on those secret underground prison cells, or on the civilian families shot by the military during conflicts... or who precisely Pro-Gadaffi forces were shelling when they were attacking rebel-held cities... homes? Hospitals?
Steam
I kind of hope this is true. I mean, that's basically arming the rebels.
Doesn't mean it's the wrong thing to do.
Would be hilarious if they armed the civilians, then the civilians turned around and said "Death to Gaddafi"
It would be like "Shiiiiiiiiiiit"
Well it's more that, there were a ton of protesters in Tripoli before the rebellion happened. And Libya only has a population of 6 million.
If they're really arming 1 million people, then either they're arming the entire conceivable loyalist faction, or depending on the idea that the protesters aren't organized or willing enough to say, protect neighborhoods or the like within the city.
Of course, it's Libyan state TV, so more likely it's total BS.
Also, when your country has 6 million people, who keeps a million AK-47s and RPGs just lying around? Or perhaps there's just one bullet for everybody?