Yep, I agree...except for the stun part. If it weren't for diminishing returns on pve stuns, and their unreliability(rogue has to not miss, get enough combo points for a full kidney shot, and then be able to re-stun again 5 seconds later). But then, my idea of CC is a semi-long term effect. Like greater than 10 seconds. It just feels like if a target is out for only 5 seconds, you didn't gain much time to burn down your primary targets.
Crowd Control, or CC, is when you take a mob out of the fight. You can do this by sheeping, hybernating, stunning, banishing, etc. If the mob has to be offtanked, then the mob is in the fight, and not under the effects of a CC ability.
I'd say hunter kiting is a valid form of CC, especially in heroics. No one gets hit, so it's not soaking up healing like offtanking, and the target is still being DPS'd, so you don't really lose a player.
Crowd Control, or CC, is when you take a mob out of the fight. You can do this by sheeping, hybernating, stunning, banishing, etc. If the mob has to be offtanked, then the mob is in the fight, and not under the effects of a CC ability.
I'd say hunter kiting is a valid form of CC, especially in heroics. No one gets hit, so it's not soaking up healing like offtanking, and the target is still being DPS'd, so you don't really lose a player.
Well, I'd be hesitant to call it that, as it kinda takes the hunter out too, but how often can these targets still be dpsed? The dps has to do less threat than serpent sting, arcane shot, and distracting shot right? That's not a significant amount of threat.
Crowd Control, or CC, is when you take a mob out of the fight. You can do this by sheeping, hybernating, stunning, banishing, etc. If the mob has to be offtanked, then the mob is in the fight, and not under the effects of a CC ability.
I'd say hunter kiting is a valid form of CC, especially in heroics. No one gets hit, so it's not soaking up healing like offtanking, and the target is still being DPS'd, so you don't really lose a player.
Well, I'd be hesitant to call it that, as it kinda takes the hunter out too, but how often can these targets still be dpsed? The dps has to do less threat than serpent sting, arcane shot, and distracting shot right? That's not a significant amount of threat.
Well, I was saying the hunter would still be DPSing. I find it very rare in heroics when I don't have time to autoshot/multishot/arcaneshot/serpentsting a mob that I'm kiting.
I'm not sure about heroics but in regular instances Cyclone is pretty decent CC. If your group can't burn down a target focus firing in 6 seconds they've got problems. If they can't in 9 they're retarded.
So I went to Karazhan last night (full balance druid). The results were pretty interesting.
First of all I only got to go because alot of the "regular" group wasn't on, and there was some kind of drama that I wan't privy to and another someone left.
Anyways, as I'm pondering why I'm in this guild I get an invite.
Balance druid laid the smack down peeps. I was leading Damage through all the trash (not suprising) and I only slipped half a percentage point behind our Affliction lock (who way way outgears me. I'm talking to the tune of 200+ damage. He has above 900 and it's climbing). And I'm fine with that anyway because A) I know he's a great player and he was doing too much DPS because he was pulling off the tank.
#1 and #2 respectively were head and shoulders above the rest of the raid, which included a rogue, mage who also outgeared me, shadowpriest and probably some others. (I only look at the top 5).
I think it shocked the hell out of my guild. I'm happy about it. Now if they want to give me flack they have to recognize that the DPS is there, end of story.
Now I need to stock up on Dreamless Sleep potions... lol.
We only got past the first boss before the healers bailed (bedtimes). Still though, I feel alot less angsty about my character now. I know I was #1 in DPS in all the groups I'd been in but with mostly pugs that doesn't usually mean much.
Now I know, and my guild knows. And knowing is half the battle.
Your lack of decent aoe will likely hurt on your way to moroes.
GJ though - I always wanted to be into moonkin.
... O_o?
Hurricane is absurd for those AOE pulls as the 25% attack speed debuff will produce a significant downtick in raid damage. If you threw a lock, frost mage and druid AOE on those packs - have the mage start, then the druid, then the lock, it's all over baby. I'd say his AOE should in fact make him MORE viable on those pulls.
Yeah - I use hurricane as feral spec on those big non-elite groups when I go. Is it scaling at all with damage gear now?
I'm not flaming balance - I played it for a while, and the mix of nukes and hots was a blast. I just can't stand moonkin myself (though I'd never turn a good one down for grouping).
That's pretty awesome, grats. So you were doing comparable DPS to the warlock and he was pulling aggro but you weren't? I thought moonkin's biggest issue right now was aggro. Did you use trinkets to combat that or is aggro not really as big a problem?
That's pretty awesome, grats. So you were doing comparable DPS to the warlock and he was pulling aggro but you weren't? I thought moonkin's biggest issue right now was aggro. Did you use trinkets to combat that or is aggro not really as big a problem?
Yeah, that doesn't make too much sense to me. Druids have zero threat reduction, and the affliction lock has 10% to his DoTs. So assuming equal dps, a lock should not pull aggro before a druid does, and then the lock should be making use of soulshatter(when it's available). I'd say to be pulling aggro, he should have been doing at least 5% more damage. Did he not have salvation perhaps, and you did, Derrick?
Could have been that he pulled aggro in previous raids and was not matching his playstyle in order to avoid pulling aggro repeatedly. Sounds like something a good player would do.
Yeah, I think Derr is saying that he himself was actively managing his aggro (and hence limitting his max DPS) whereas the Warlock was going all out to aggro town.
Right, but what Septus is saying if that was true, the warlock should have been able to do a bit more damage before pulling aggro.
Well if it was on trash the lock could be DoTing up multiple mobs and pulling aggro on of those those while Derrick would be more focused on the current DPS target.
Right, but what Septus is saying if that was true, the warlock should have been able to do a bit more damage before pulling aggro.
Exactly. Unless he was dying from it, or subsequently over-restricting his dps for fear of pulling aggro again, he should have still been higher, even before using soulshatter.
Right, but what Septus is saying if that was true, the warlock should have been able to do a bit more damage before pulling aggro.
Well if it was on trash the lock could be DoTing up multiple mobs and pulling aggro on of those those while Derrick would be more focused on the current DPS target.
Heh, if the warlock barely edged him out, say 500 dps compared to Derrick's 480, splitting that over more mobs just makes it even less likely that he'd pull aggro.
I made sure I had salv on. I'm not sure but the Warlock may have as well. I can't testify to that. I also always instance/raid with the lvl 68 aggro reducing trinket (will get the time keepers one when I'm reverred. Feint every 90 sec is pretty hot).
I was also not going all out. Especially in the beginning of the fight I throw up an insect swarm... let it tick down. Throw up another and a moonfire, and then check sunder debuffs. If it's at 5 at that point (should be) I go to town. For mana conservation I was using starfire which isn't max dps as well.
As high as I remained on the meters after the fight I'm sure I was more than pulling my weight on that encounter. I mean #1 and #2 really were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.
Hurricane does scale with gear I think but not well. The point of hurricane is the 25% debuff. I throw down treants (general carnage) barkskin and hurricane. I think it ticks just under the 300 mark. It's no where near mage AOE but I don't mind that. I do it to save the mages not to out dps them. I love being a hybrid and I have no problem taking a hit on the meters to throw up some HoTs when it's needed, or decursing/depoisoning.
I don't feel like competition to the mages and locks. I am proud of the damage meters because it proves I'm viable, not because I think my class is the best for every situation. But still, a class that can mad single target dps and also heal (saved a pull in karazhan with tranq. Didn't mention that before) is a damn fine raid spec.
Especially when you consider +crit aura with paladin heal synergy (crits are free). Throw in a shadow priest and you've got great healing, great mana back, and mighty fine dps.
[edit] He only died on the boss. I was straight out dpsing him on trash, and he was multiple dottng (which is cool. That's what they do).
Right, but what Septus is saying if that was true, the warlock should have been able to do a bit more damage before pulling aggro.
Well if it was on trash the lock could be DoTing up multiple mobs and pulling aggro on of those those while Derrick would be more focused on the current DPS target.
Heh, if the warlock barely edged him out, say 500 dps compared to Derrick's 480, splitting that over more mobs just makes it even less likely that he'd pull aggro.
Not if a warrior was tanking 2 or 3 mobs. If the lock loaded an off target up with DoTs he could be pulling it off the tank. I'm not sure how the trash pulls are in Kara and if the tanks even tank 2 or 3 mobs at a time on trash pulls. Just throwing ideas out to explain the damage/aggro discrepency here.
Yeah, I love the Tranquilability of Moonkin form, it's just awesome to know that if things go deep down the shitter you can pop out and save the team (even if it does often result in HOLYSHIT amounts of aggro and an untimely death).
Where do you get the aggro reducing Trinket by the way? Is it a quest or some rep-reward?
Right, but what Septus is saying if that was true, the warlock should have been able to do a bit more damage before pulling aggro.
Well if it was on trash the lock could be DoTing up multiple mobs and pulling aggro on of those those while Derrick would be more focused on the current DPS target.
Heh, if the warlock barely edged him out, say 500 dps compared to Derrick's 480, splitting that over more mobs just makes it even less likely that he'd pull aggro.
Not if a warrior was tanking 2 or 3 mobs. If the lock loaded an off target up with DoTs he could be pulling it off the tank. I'm not sure how the trash pulls are in Kara and if the tanks even tank 2 or 3 mobs at a time on trash pulls. Just throwing ideas out to explain the damage/aggro discrepency here.
He had two priests (holy and shadow) so we had two shacks. We also had a MT (prot warrior) and an off tank (feral druid). Everything tanked was dotted, MT target burns down first, then feral druid's, then MT's again. It worked very well.
Yeah, I love the Tranquilability of Moonkin form, it's just awesome to know that if things go deep down the shitter you can pop out and save the team (even if it does often result in HOLYSHIT amounts of aggro and an untimely death).
Where do you get the aggro reducing Trinket by the way? Is it a quest or some rep-reward?
Ya know..I saw that Shadow Lab trinket drop and I didn't even think of rolling on it.
We gave it to our priest in the group.
Fuck...I'll have to go back for it. And I never ever ever wanted to do another shadow lab again. Oh well.
I like what Spongecake said though. Yea...we can save the day, but it is often self sacrificing. "Hurray! Tranquility! We're saved!" "Someone rez the druid"
DrZiplock on
"zip, i dunno what it is about you, but there's something very cat-like about your face. i can't really place it. you'd make a good mountain lion." Hail, Satan!Satans Post
Ya know..I saw that Shadow Lab trinket drop and I didn't even think of rolling on it.
We gave it to our priest in the group.
Fuck...I'll have to go back for it. And I never ever ever wanted to do another shadow lab again. Oh well.
I like what Spongecake said though. Yea...we can save the day, but it is often self sacrificing. "Hurray! Tranquility! We're saved!" "Someone rez the druid"
Yeah that happened to me in botanica the other night.
Tranq- Heals a couple ticks- PWNED
My response- "Man that seemed like a good idea at the time..."
The fact that tranq rocks so much does make the threat reducing talent worth it (and the pushback protection talent very much worth it). I mean, you're not going to keep it up if you're getting wailed on but for as much as it ticks, it could help if barkskin is on cooldown (or you don't have enough time to cast it).
Sporegar threat reducing cape at honored. Not sure how much the threat reduction is, but it's a good alternative to waiting for CoT rep or the Shadowlab trinket to drop.
Also, I'm thinking of going Boomkin for PvP purposes. Right now I have 44% mitigation if I go Boomkin, 5400 health, 9200 mana 17% base crit, 22% with Boom, and about 457 damage with gear I've thrown together in the matter of 3 days. I know I need at least another 150 damage, but how does that look?
For PvP your going to need a lot more HP. Your mitigation isn't going to mean squat when a mage one or two shots you. I'd recommend being around 7-8k.
I agree, but at this moment there isn't much in the way of spell damage + crit leather. My main problem is they went and changed feral PvP after I had already done all the solo questing in outland. Every single last quest. So I missed out on some gear that would have worked well that had stam on it. Right now it's mostly Int/dam/crit gear, otherwise I would have even less than the 450 damage and 17 base crit. I've even got some cloth gear but even those pieces lack stam. I'm stuck between easy to kill or laughable damage at the moment.
Posts
I'd say hunter kiting is a valid form of CC, especially in heroics. No one gets hit, so it's not soaking up healing like offtanking, and the target is still being DPS'd, so you don't really lose a player.
Well, I'd be hesitant to call it that, as it kinda takes the hunter out too, but how often can these targets still be dpsed? The dps has to do less threat than serpent sting, arcane shot, and distracting shot right? That's not a significant amount of threat.
Well, I was saying the hunter would still be DPSing. I find it very rare in heroics when I don't have time to autoshot/multishot/arcaneshot/serpentsting a mob that I'm kiting.
First of all I only got to go because alot of the "regular" group wasn't on, and there was some kind of drama that I wan't privy to and another someone left.
Anyways, as I'm pondering why I'm in this guild I get an invite.
Balance druid laid the smack down peeps. I was leading Damage through all the trash (not suprising) and I only slipped half a percentage point behind our Affliction lock (who way way outgears me. I'm talking to the tune of 200+ damage. He has above 900 and it's climbing). And I'm fine with that anyway because A) I know he's a great player and
#1 and #2 respectively were head and shoulders above the rest of the raid, which included a rogue, mage who also outgeared me, shadowpriest and probably some others. (I only look at the top 5).
I think it shocked the hell out of my guild. I'm happy about it. Now if they want to give me flack they have to recognize that the DPS is there, end of story.
Now I need to stock up on Dreamless Sleep potions... lol.
We only got past the first boss before the healers bailed (bedtimes). Still though, I feel alot less angsty about my character now. I know I was #1 in DPS in all the groups I'd been in but with mostly pugs that doesn't usually mean much.
Now I know, and my guild knows. And knowing is half the battle.
GJ though - I always wanted to be into moonkin.
... O_o?
Hurricane is absurd for those AOE pulls as the 25% attack speed debuff will produce a significant downtick in raid damage. If you threw a lock, frost mage and druid AOE on those packs - have the mage start, then the druid, then the lock, it's all over baby. I'd say his AOE should in fact make him MORE viable on those pulls.
I'm not flaming balance - I played it for a while, and the mix of nukes and hots was a blast. I just can't stand moonkin myself (though I'd never turn a good one down for grouping).
Yeah, that doesn't make too much sense to me. Druids have zero threat reduction, and the affliction lock has 10% to his DoTs. So assuming equal dps, a lock should not pull aggro before a druid does, and then the lock should be making use of soulshatter(when it's available). I'd say to be pulling aggro, he should have been doing at least 5% more damage. Did he not have salvation perhaps, and you did, Derrick?
Well if it was on trash the lock could be DoTing up multiple mobs and pulling aggro on of those those while Derrick would be more focused on the current DPS target.
Exactly. Unless he was dying from it, or subsequently over-restricting his dps for fear of pulling aggro again, he should have still been higher, even before using soulshatter.
Heh, if the warlock barely edged him out, say 500 dps compared to Derrick's 480, splitting that over more mobs just makes it even less likely that he'd pull aggro.
I was also not going all out. Especially in the beginning of the fight I throw up an insect swarm... let it tick down. Throw up another and a moonfire, and then check sunder debuffs. If it's at 5 at that point (should be) I go to town. For mana conservation I was using starfire which isn't max dps as well.
As high as I remained on the meters after the fight I'm sure I was more than pulling my weight on that encounter. I mean #1 and #2 really were head and shoulders above the rest of the pack.
Hurricane does scale with gear I think but not well. The point of hurricane is the 25% debuff. I throw down treants (general carnage) barkskin and hurricane. I think it ticks just under the 300 mark. It's no where near mage AOE but I don't mind that. I do it to save the mages not to out dps them. I love being a hybrid and I have no problem taking a hit on the meters to throw up some HoTs when it's needed, or decursing/depoisoning.
I don't feel like competition to the mages and locks. I am proud of the damage meters because it proves I'm viable, not because I think my class is the best for every situation. But still, a class that can mad single target dps and also heal (saved a pull in karazhan with tranq. Didn't mention that before) is a damn fine raid spec.
Especially when you consider +crit aura with paladin heal synergy (crits are free). Throw in a shadow priest and you've got great healing, great mana back, and mighty fine dps.
[edit] He only died on the boss. I was straight out dpsing him on trash, and he was multiple dottng (which is cool. That's what they do).
Not if a warrior was tanking 2 or 3 mobs. If the lock loaded an off target up with DoTs he could be pulling it off the tank. I'm not sure how the trash pulls are in Kara and if the tanks even tank 2 or 3 mobs at a time on trash pulls. Just throwing ideas out to explain the damage/aggro discrepency here.
Where do you get the aggro reducing Trinket by the way? Is it a quest or some rep-reward?
He had two priests (holy and shadow) so we had two shacks. We also had a MT (prot warrior) and an off tank (feral druid). Everything tanked was dotted, MT target burns down first, then feral druid's, then MT's again. It worked very well.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27900
It's a drop from Shadow Labs.
I'm really looking forward to
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29181
However.
We gave it to our priest in the group.
Fuck...I'll have to go back for it. And I never ever ever wanted to do another shadow lab again. Oh well.
I like what Spongecake said though. Yea...we can save the day, but it is often self sacrificing. "Hurray! Tranquility! We're saved!" "Someone rez the druid"
Yeah that happened to me in botanica the other night.
Tranq- Heals a couple ticks- PWNED
My response- "Man that seemed like a good idea at the time..."
The fact that tranq rocks so much does make the threat reducing talent worth it (and the pushback protection talent very much worth it). I mean, you're not going to keep it up if you're getting wailed on but for as much as it ticks, it could help if barkskin is on cooldown (or you don't have enough time to cast it).
Well if a pull is going bad and I end up tanking something (happens) I barkskin to try and help the healer.
Shit can go south from there in a hurry.
So, not super often but it does happen.
Sporegar threat reducing cape at honored. Not sure how much the threat reduction is, but it's a good alternative to waiting for CoT rep or the Shadowlab trinket to drop.
Also, I'm thinking of going Boomkin for PvP purposes. Right now I have 44% mitigation if I go Boomkin, 5400 health, 9200 mana 17% base crit, 22% with Boom, and about 457 damage with gear I've thrown together in the matter of 3 days. I know I need at least another 150 damage, but how does that look?
I agree, but at this moment there isn't much in the way of spell damage + crit leather. My main problem is they went and changed feral PvP after I had already done all the solo questing in outland. Every single last quest. So I missed out on some gear that would have worked well that had stam on it. Right now it's mostly Int/dam/crit gear, otherwise I would have even less than the 450 damage and 17 base crit. I've even got some cloth gear but even those pieces lack stam. I'm stuck between easy to kill or laughable damage at the moment.
Do you mean the tier 2 look a like set?
Wheeeeeeeeeee.
Heh.
Well most people want to do decent in PvP before they get all the rewards from it. :-p