I don't think there is even 1 useless zerg unit. I would even say zerg are the most powerful race, followed by protoss.
.... we don't have a useless unit because we don't have a single versatile (ed: )cost-effective unit, so we have to make up for it by throwing everything into the mix
I'm not saying we're weaker... but yeah, it'd be nice to have an ace up our sleeve like a planetary fortress, or mothership, or a +2 armor to all our bunkers/turrets, or a turret range upgrade, or a personal watch tower, etc. etc. =P
@ wakkawa: That's what I mean... I wish that going BC's or Carriers fulfilled that "FUCKING AWESOME" quota. I want to go for Capital ships and EVEN IF I LOSE think "I still bet I scared the shit out of him with that".
Also, 815 - Count the number of units, I think it ends up being very even.
Mashimaro on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
battlecruisers have a role in tvt. long games where either a) you have air superiority or b) there isn't much air combat
they can win you the game
also here, replay of a long tvz. I think it might be fun to watch?
I don't think there is even 1 useless zerg unit. I would even say zerg are the most powerful race, followed by protoss.
.... we don't have a useless unit because we don't have a single versatile (ed: )cost-effective unit, so we have to make up for it by throwing everything into the mix
I'm not saying we're weaker... but yeah, it'd be nice to have an ace up our sleeve like a planetary fortress, or mothership, or a +2 armor to all our bunkers/turrets, or a turret range upgrade, or a personal watch tower, etc. etc. =P
nydus is nice, but not THAT nice
C'mon now... you're going to say that ultras and broodlords are crap? Yeah, they're hella late game units and you can't exactly just rush for them (unless you have a deathwish) - but they're still pretty sweet.
So I recently learned that Zombie Monkey has been doing something very similar to the Artosis 3 Stalker PvP build (to stop 4 warp gates), but he'd never actually seen the video/read about it. So I dug up a bunch of replays and information about the build for him.
Figured the rest of you might want to check out some analysis on it as well, so here's everything I found for him.
I never really see a game and think "Oh god, that's broken, how could the other guy have stopped that."
Very much comes down to reading your opponent and outplaying them.
its a helluva lot better than release. there were some abusable units and strats, like original VRs or Reapers vs Zerg, but the completely unfair ones have been taken care of.
When I first read that there would be rewards based on division ranking at season end, I was kinda hoping that it'd be more than an icon buried within your profile.
Unless a bunch of people in my division start to amass points, it looks like I'll be getting the silver top 8 thing. I'm currently ranked 2nd.
Question to the zergs here, what makes you think 4 gate without the actual pylon spotting/pressure? What are the criteria?
My indicators are:
1) Non-zealot/sentry mixes. In particular, seeing a stalker pop out 2nd of a gateway or when I poke up a ramp and see a stalker.
2) A single gas taken with no attempts to take a second, even if I steal it.
3) My drone scout sees saved up chrono at the nexus.
4) My drone or lings see chronos going into warp gate (and also not going into the nexus), in particular, more than one chrono going into warp gate.
5) I don't kill the initial scouting probe, if I know or suspect there is a scout probe hiding somewhere, or if I see protoss attempt to sneak probes out of their base.
6) My overlord comes in and sees 4 gates.
Beyond the last one, all of these indicators are merely indicators and not absolutes. At the 22-26 food mark I make my decision if I need to defend against a 4 gate and react accordingly.
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
You see the first gate and the nexus and the nexus has excess energy: either the Protoss is failing to use chrono (me, on some days) or they're saving it for tech or warpgate.
Or, if you scout them after the cybercore is down and the cybercore is being chrono'd, it's a good sign that there will be early 3 or 4 gate pressure.
<edit> These are just units you can compose a force with. I don't count the economic stuff. I don't count overlords because it's like.. you don't decide to go overlords. You just always have em around. If you do want to count them, then I guess you can also count terran SCVs because it's actually super common to see them brought along with a force as a mechanical healer/bunker/turret thrower-upper.
ed: I might even ask for that special zerg-membership tossgirl calendar back!!
ed ed: to all bro-toss, please avert your eyes from post# 588. Nothing to see here, move along.
I never complained about 4 gate though. And I've actually been losing to 4 gates lately because my ling/bling build spends resources up to the first 40 food very differently than a standard roach/hydra opening.
It's a very fragile situation and for the benefit of Auir, as you can tell from the indicators I outlined above, that the zerg never really knows, so you can play all kind of fake out games if you're smart about it (and you have confidence that the zerg responds in an "optimal" manner to your feints).
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
<edit> "Overlords drop creep and transport, also scout. Sure count workers for everyone as well."
Why would you count probes and drones. Are they also healers? I don't think so. They don't do shit. You ALWAYS see a squad of scvs following a mech army or as a part of a marine bunker rush or all-in.
Posts
The same could be said for someone else and knowing how to macro.
Couple minutes later
"-_-"
.... we don't have a useless unit because we don't have a single versatile (ed: )cost-effective unit, so we have to make up for it by throwing everything into the mix
I'm not saying we're weaker... but yeah, it'd be nice to have an ace up our sleeve like a planetary fortress, or mothership, or a +2 armor to all our bunkers/turrets, or a turret range upgrade, or a personal watch tower, etc. etc. =P
nydus is nice, but not THAT nice
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
Also, 815 - Count the number of units, I think it ends up being very even.
they can win you the game
also here, replay of a long tvz. I think it might be fun to watch?
C'mon now... you're going to say that ultras and broodlords are crap? Yeah, they're hella late game units and you can't exactly just rush for them (unless you have a deathwish) - but they're still pretty sweet.
mods please get this trolling out of here thanks
Those are necessary units.
Motherships, and all the other crap, aren't a necessity.
They're like, bonus, but don't get used because they don't really need to be.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I never really see a game and think "Oh god, that's broken, how could the other guy have stopped that."
Very much comes down to reading your opponent and outplaying them.
makes the game more fun
it was a response to wakka's "not a single useless zerg unit,".. because, we HAVE to use them all
I'm sure we'll get our useless zerg overmind unit in the next release.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I don't know why you would want a useless unit though.
Other than for team game shenanigans.
"Zerg starting hatch is now the near-invincible zerg Overmind.
All players now able to summon Overmind-slaying DT's for 50/50."
Could have been said for a long, long time. Not sure that its close to true anymore, I'm getting some good feedback on that aspect of my game.
Joe's Stream.
Figured the rest of you might want to check out some analysis on it as well, so here's everything I found for him.
Artosis Tutorial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_X8Jlfj5g
Team Liquid in-depth Analysis by Cecil Sunkure (Dhal trusts this guy enough to give him money).
IMYongHwa using the build in the GSL (Skip to set 5)
A replay of ROOT Minigun using this build to defend against Mana on ICCup Fighting Spirit.
Hahah I've had all of my focus on Terran stuff! I've played like, three matches as Protoss, and that was months ago!
its a helluva lot better than release. there were some abusable units and strats, like original VRs or Reapers vs Zerg, but the completely unfair ones have been taken care of.
Joe's Stream.
Unless a bunch of people in my division start to amass points, it looks like I'll be getting the silver top 8 thing. I'm currently ranked 2nd.
Hearing other countries gamesounds is pretty funny, and his english is... better than I thought it would be :P.
TLO
Strelok
Slush
Machine
Sen
"We have... erm... good economics"
We'll never reveal our secrets to you!
MWAHAHAHAH!!!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
My indicators are:
1) Non-zealot/sentry mixes. In particular, seeing a stalker pop out 2nd of a gateway or when I poke up a ramp and see a stalker.
2) A single gas taken with no attempts to take a second, even if I steal it.
3) My drone scout sees saved up chrono at the nexus.
4) My drone or lings see chronos going into warp gate (and also not going into the nexus), in particular, more than one chrono going into warp gate.
5) I don't kill the initial scouting probe, if I know or suspect there is a scout probe hiding somewhere, or if I see protoss attempt to sneak probes out of their base.
6) My overlord comes in and sees 4 gates.
Beyond the last one, all of these indicators are merely indicators and not absolutes. At the 22-26 food mark I make my decision if I need to defend against a 4 gate and react accordingly.
You see the first gate and the nexus and the nexus has excess energy: either the Protoss is failing to use chrono (me, on some days) or they're saving it for tech or warpgate.
Or, if you scout them after the cybercore is down and the cybercore is being chrono'd, it's a good sign that there will be early 3 or 4 gate pressure.
Oh shiiiiiiiii... =(
You've lost all your rights to bitch about 4gate!
ed: I might even ask for that special zerg-membership tossgirl calendar back!!
ed ed: to all bro-toss, please avert your eyes from post# 588. Nothing to see here, move along.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
zergling__queen__hydra__baneling__overseer__roach__infestor__muta__corruptor__ultra__broodlord
marine__marauder__reaper__ghost__hellion__siege tank__thor__viking__medivac__raven__banshee__battlecruiser
zealot__stalker__sentry__observer__immortal__warp prism__colossus__phoenix__void ray__high templar__dark templar__archon__carrier__mothership
That's how I count em, anyway. 11Z__12T__14P
<edit> These are just units you can compose a force with. I don't count the economic stuff. I don't count overlords because it's like.. you don't decide to go overlords. You just always have em around. If you do want to count them, then I guess you can also count terran SCVs because it's actually super common to see them brought along with a force as a mechanical healer/bunker/turret thrower-upper.
"Gah! Eez Banshee! Was not expect. He wants do dropship harass, but stalker keel banshee"
"Now, I get Collosus... Gah! Eez trapped! We must keel pylon... and now... Freedom. Freedom for collosus! Freedom for collosus!"
I mean if you are counting warp prisms then count overlords.
I never complained about 4 gate though. And I've actually been losing to 4 gates lately because my ling/bling build spends resources up to the first 40 food very differently than a standard roach/hydra opening.
It's a very fragile situation and for the benefit of Auir, as you can tell from the indicators I outlined above, that the zerg never really knows, so you can play all kind of fake out games if you're smart about it (and you have confidence that the zerg responds in an "optimal" manner to your feints).
<edit> "Overlords drop creep and transport, also scout. Sure count workers for everyone as well."
Why would you count probes and drones. Are they also healers? I don't think so. They don't do shit. You ALWAYS see a squad of scvs following a mech army or as a part of a marine bunker rush or all-in.