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[Gay Rights] Scott Walker still trying to get fired.

MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
edited May 2011 in Debate and/or Discourse
Gay Rights thread, 2011 edition! And it's already been a rather interesting year for Gay Rights and Issues.

Gay Marriage
gaymarriage.jpg

Oh lordy this one is getting complicated. I'm going to paint a broad picture here because things there's lots going on.

DOMA - The Obama Administration has refused to defend DOMA in court, calling it unconstitutional. The GOP lost their shit of course, and the House Republicans will probably step in to defend it. In the meantime, we've got attempts to repeal the provision.

Prop 8 - A request to allow same-sex marriages in California during the appeal process has been denied, which is not that unusual, although disappointing.

Right now, we're waiting on the CA Supreme Court to decide whether the defendants even have standing to defend Prop 8 in the Federal Appeal, as the CA Governor and Attorney General have both refused to do so. The oral arguments have been moved to September for some fucking reason.

Bans and Bills - Along with the wave of GOP elections last year have come many politicians seeking to stop or reverse the progress of the gay rights cause. Many states are attempting to pass bills preemptively banning gay marriage and in some cases, attempting to strengthen existing legislation.

Here's some of the bigger/more recent examples, which I will update whenever I feel like it.

Iowa - A ferocious battleground where the GOP and tea-party movement are attempting to reverse the states pro-gay marriage law. They are failing, for now, but it's a close thing and due to Iowa's judicial election system, three of the judges who ruled in favor of gay marriage have since lost their positions.

Maryland - Came VERY close to passing a gay marriage bill but intense last minute pressure from right-wing groups managed to sway the vote and stop passage. This is going to be a big fight in Maryland in coming years.

Hawaii - Finally, has Civil Unions!

Delaware - Civil Unions!

Wyoming - An attempted anti-gay marriage bill has failed, when of all people, many Wyoming Republican Senators dissented, protesting the interference of government in peoples private lives. Wyoming has civil unions already.

Colorado - Civil Unions bill defeated.

Here's a recent Gallop poll on gay marriage. Support has increased a full 9% in the last year.
vqf79nrpfewws7ibh1uq.gif


DADT
gayvj.jpg

Don't Ask, Don't Tell has been officially repealed in a stunning 'lame duck' session at the end of 2010. The latest news I have been able to find is that official certification will probably be sometime this summer, possibly June or July.

In the meantime, the military is training its personnel on what will change and what will not. You can see some of that in a PowerPoint slideshow over at Huffington Post.


Gay Teen Suicides/It Gets Better
100922dansavageterry.jpg

Last year, around September, we had a rash of highly publicized stories of gay teens (and teens perceived to be gay) taking their own lives as a result of hateful anti-gay bullying. It's still up in the air whether this was an increase in these incidents, or more likely in my personal opinion, simply an increase in reporting on the issue.

In response, blogger, podcaster, and columnist Dan Savage created a video with his partner Terry to talk to at-risk teens facing bullying, and show them that their lives will get better if they just hang in there. The video went viral, and it blossomed into the It Gets Better Project. To date, thousands of It Gets Better videos have been created by celebrities and people from every walk of life, and it's created a much needed dialogue on gay teens and the issue of teen bullying in general.

The Trevor Project, an LGBT youth suicide-prevention organization, has since seen their incoming calls increase by 50%, which is frightening in a sense, but at least it means more LGBT youth are reaching out for help.

Dan and Terry just did an NPR interview on the topic, in line with the release of the It Gets Better book. You can hear the interview here (it's quite good), and buy the book here.

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MuddBudd on
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Posts

  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUYEKz8In4

    Appropriate? Maybe not. Funny as hell? To me it is.

    If anyone has a Dailyshow.com link instead of a crappy 'taped off tv' link instead, all the better.

    Also, the Wyoming story remains one of my favourites from last thread.

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Yeah the Wyoming thing still surprises me. I just picture a guy looking back and forth between "small government" and "illegal relationships" for like an hour before he's like "waaaaaitaminute...."

    KalTorak on
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »

    My sister takes every chance she can get to rant about how Katy Perry is intolerant of LGBT issues (because of some songs she did? idk) and pressures me to feel the same way. Does this mean I can go back to not giving a shit about Katy Perry?

    Lord Yod on
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I have no idea. I don't own a Katy Perry CD or album. I just like that song and it fits the 'It Gets Better' theme.

    MuddBudd on
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  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kylie Minogue did it first, and better.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frv6FOt1BNI

    adytum on
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  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    How about Kesha not wanting to date a boy with a vag?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH8Wg_3NOJQ
    Boy, thats some good LGBTQ support there, lady.

    Improvolone on
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  • Styrofoam SammichStyrofoam Sammich WANT. 5386-8443-8937Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    This thread has already hit its youtube link limit.

    Styrofoam Sammich on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack on
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  • enlightenedbumenlightenedbum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    In the previous thread, people were requesting more discussion of trans issues. I know very little but I'm interested, partially because one of my best friends has been dating someone who is transgender for the last year or so. I don't see her as much as I'd like (she lives in LA and I'm in Ann Arbor, Michigan) so I've never met him (using the self-identifying pronoun). The reaction of her parents has been... interesting. They try to understand.

    enlightenedbum on
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    adytum wrote: »
    Kylie Minogue did it first, and better.

    *snip*

    Personally I prefer Aphrodite, but goddamn, nice video.

    The guy at about 55 seconds in is the hottest.

    -edit-

    Although the horse was a bit odd. For a second I thought it was going to join in the pile and Kylie had crossed a line. But no, just a horse wandering by.

    MuddBudd on
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  • V1mV1m Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I kind of get it but I don't really get it. Like if there was a TV channel and clubs and thing devoted to snail racing, I would comprehend the activity, but I really wouldn't understand it. I guess at heart I'm an unsophisticated country boy who grew up in a very straightfoward, homogenous environment that left me really ill-equipped to understand an activity that, to me, is just completely pointless, unattractive and, if I'm honest, rather disgusting. Anyway, I apologise if this is offending anyone, but I would be grateful if someone who was.... inclined that way could explain to me just why - or how - they feel the way they do.

    Why?


    Why this restless urge to tell other people how and with whom they should rub their private bits together? What possible difference could it make to you? I'm gonna go to a quiet private place and touch my this with her that - what's it to you? Or me and these guys are gonna put these in those, in the privacy of our own homes. When did you get involved in the process?

    You're not interested in how I go for a poop, or whether I get the oil hot before I saute onions, or if I have the colour temperature on my monitor set correctly, or that I'm not wearing matching socks. But you're relentlessly concerned about the placement of my trouser-snake. What? Shouldn't you be more worried that I put on 20lbs this winter? Look at me, my jeans don't fit! Lil' V1m isn't going anywhere special till that shit is sorted, so that should be a priority.

    V1m on
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    DOMA has to die at some point. This patchwork bullshit for each state is going to cause serious headaches as more states permit unions and marriages. Fighting for it in every state would be exhausting.

    Sterica on
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  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    There's a serious disconnect between paragraph one and two of v1m's post.

    Sterica on
    YL9WnCY.png
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    How about Kesha not wanting to date a boy with a vag?

    Boy, thats some good LGBTQ support there, lady.

    Sounds more misogynistic than anything else.

    mrt144 on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    To what are you referring V1m?
    Living out out lifestyle or something else?
    You never really said, and we might be able to actually work through the societal issues you have.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    DOMA has to die at some point. This patchwork bullshit for each state is going to cause serious headaches as more states permit unions and marriages. Fighting for it in every state would be exhausting.

    Don't forget with DADT going out the door there are going to be a lot of service members demanding to know why their spouse doesn't count for a shit ton of benefits.

    Quid on
  • Gnome-InterruptusGnome-Interruptus Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    V1m wrote: »
    I kind of get it but I don't really get it. Like if there was a TV channel and clubs and thing devoted to snail racing, I would comprehend the activity, but I really wouldn't understand it. I guess at heart I'm an unsophisticated country boy who grew up in a very straightfoward, homogenous environment that left me really ill-equipped to understand an activity that, to me, is just completely pointless, unattractive and, if I'm honest, rather disgusting. Anyway, I apologise if this is offending anyone, but I would be grateful if someone who was.... inclined that way could explain to me just why - or how - they feel the way they do.

    Why?


    Why this restless urge to tell other people how and with whom they should rub their private bits together? What possible difference could it make to you? I'm gonna go to a quiet private place and touch my this with her that - what's it to you? Or me and these guys are gonna put these in those, in the privacy of our own homes. When did you get involved in the process?

    You're not interested in how I go for a poop, or whether I get the oil hot before I saute onions, or if I have the colour temperature on my monitor set correctly, or that I'm not wearing matching socks. But you're relentlessly concerned about the placement of my trouser-snake. What? Shouldn't you be more worried that I put on 20lbs this winter? Look at me, my jeans don't fit! Lil' V1m isn't going anywhere special till that shit is sorted, so that should be a priority.

    I would say it is due to general close mindedness and a lack of empathy. I would at a guess say that almost everyone starts off a little homophobic, until they actually think it through and realize there is no reason to be that way. But the people incapable of that level of introspection and unable to empathize stick with their initial gut reaction. Mix in some authority where they feel the need to impose their values on others, and you have these situations.

    Gnome-Interruptus on
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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    How about Kesha not wanting to date a boy with a vag?

    Boy, thats some good LGBTQ support there, lady.

    Sounds more misogynistic than anything else.
    That one is more misogynistic than homophobic, for sure. It's usually a really fine line, and the two often go together, though.

    Blackjack on
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • Xenogear_0001Xenogear_0001 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Unless I'm reading this wrong, V1m is using satire.

    Xenogear_0001 on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Quid wrote: »
    Rorus Raz wrote: »
    DOMA has to die at some point. This patchwork bullshit for each state is going to cause serious headaches as more states permit unions and marriages. Fighting for it in every state would be exhausting.

    Don't forget with DADT going out the door there are going to be a lot of service members demanding to know why their spouse doesn't count for a shit ton of benefits.
    Yeah, there is going to be a ton of pressure coming from that direction.

    Ending DADT solidified an interest block overnight. They were already there, they just couldn't ask for anything without being kicked out.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    V1m wrote: »
    I kind of get it but I don't really get it. Like if there was a TV channel and clubs and thing devoted to snail racing, I would comprehend the activity, but I really wouldn't understand it. I guess at heart I'm an unsophisticated country boy who grew up in a very straightfoward, homogenous environment that left me really ill-equipped to understand an activity that, to me, is just completely pointless, unattractive and, if I'm honest, rather disgusting. Anyway, I apologise if this is offending anyone, but I would be grateful if someone who was.... inclined that way could explain to me just why - or how - they feel the way they do.

    Why?


    Why this restless urge to tell other people how and with whom they should rub their private bits together? What possible difference could it make to you? I'm gonna go to a quiet private place and touch my this with her that - what's it to you? Or me and these guys are gonna put these in those, in the privacy of our own homes. When did you get involved in the process?

    You're not interested in how I go for a poop, or whether I get the oil hot before I saute onions, or if I have the colour temperature on my monitor set correctly, or that I'm not wearing matching socks. But you're relentlessly concerned about the placement of my trouser-snake. What? Shouldn't you be more worried that I put on 20lbs this winter? Look at me, my jeans don't fit! Lil' V1m isn't going anywhere special till that shit is sorted, so that should be a priority.

    Basically agree with this. Lots of different things gross me out but it doesn't even being to matter since it's none of my fucking business. And ultimately it's downright offensive to me that someone would consider my sister's sex/love life to be anyone's business other than hers and her partner's.

    Lord Yod on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    The idea that this sort of thing needs to be kept in the bedroom is what makes it okay in peoples' minds to kick girls out of Mariners games for making out, or to stop girls from taking their girlfriends to prom, or any other examples that aren't leaping immediately to mind.

    Lord Yod on
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    LGBT stigma stems from multiple places including religious grounds, misogynistic grounds (subverting male dominated roles by assuming "feminine roles" such as nelly bottom queen), and puritanical grounds (sex is gross lets never talk about it). Its a hard road to pave. ):

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • SkyGheNeSkyGheNe Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Lord Yod wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »

    My sister takes every chance she can get to rant about how Katy Perry is intolerant of LGBT issues (because of some songs she did? idk) and pressures me to feel the same way. Does this mean I can go back to not giving a shit about Katy Perry?

    She's a horrible human being.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWbLkXhGEmo
    On the surface, Perry’s song seems to be acknowledging and condoning alternate female sexualities, as well as singing the praises of traditional femininity, with lyrics like, “I kissed a girl / and I liked it” and “Us girls we are so magical / Soft skin, red lips, so kissable / Hard to resist so touchable / Too good to deny it”.

    But other lines quickly quash any question about Perry’s sexuality: “I kissed a girl / just to try it / I hope my boyfriend / won’t mind it / It felt so wrong / It felt so right / Don’t mean I’m in love tonight”; “It’s [the kiss] not what / I’m used to”; and “It’s not what / Good girls do / Not how they should behave”. The last scene in the music video reinforces this idea that “good girls” don’t kiss other girls, with Perry waking up in bed next to her aforementioned boyfriend.

    http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/katy-perry-plays-make-believe/

    SkyGheNe on
  • QuidQuid I don't... what... hnnng Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    There's something of an issue when the bulk of people who say keep it in the bedroom actually mean never mention anything remotely homosexual around me.

    Quid on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Quid wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    There's something of an issue when the bulk of people who say keep it in the bedroom actually mean never mention anything remotely homosexual around me.
    Oh yeah, I agree totally.

    I'm definitely not one of those "keep it in the bedroom" people, because I see it for the bullshit "tolerance" that it is. People should have the right to be who they are, regardless of situation or location. Otherwise they're not really free or equal to those of us who are more accepted by society.

    I'm just from a background where sex doesn't really make an appearance in public in really any way, regardless of orientation. So in that way I can see where they're coming from. The problem is that it is used as an excuse for bigotry and oppression, which makes it an unacceptable cop out.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Page 2 is lacking in youtube videos.

    Lorahalo on
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    There's something of an issue when the bulk of people who say keep it in the bedroom actually mean never mention anything remotely homosexual around me.
    Oh yeah, I agree totally.

    I'm definitely not one of those "keep it in the bedroom" people, because I see it for the bullshit "tolerance" that it is. People should have the right to be who they are, regardless of situation or location. Otherwise they're not really free or equal to those of us who are more accepted by society.

    I'm just from a background where sex doesn't really make an appearance in public in really any way, regardless of orientation. So in that way I can see where they're coming from. The problem is that it is used as an excuse for bigotry and oppression, which makes it an unacceptable cop out.

    So, you've never watched television? There's tons of heterosex stuff on tv, but it's seen as normal and desirable. Heterosexuality does make an appearance in public life, but it's such an ingrained part of public life that it's tough to notice except in comparison to how little other sexualities are presented in the media.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    There's something of an issue when the bulk of people who say keep it in the bedroom actually mean never mention anything remotely homosexual around me.
    Oh yeah, I agree totally.

    I'm definitely not one of those "keep it in the bedroom" people, because I see it for the bullshit "tolerance" that it is. People should have the right to be who they are, regardless of situation or location. Otherwise they're not really free or equal to those of us who are more accepted by society.

    I'm just from a background where sex doesn't really make an appearance in public in really any way, regardless of orientation. So in that way I can see where they're coming from. The problem is that it is used as an excuse for bigotry and oppression, which makes it an unacceptable cop out.

    So, you've never watched television? There's tons of heterosex stuff on tv, but it's seen as normal and desirable. Heterosexuality does make an appearance in public life, but it's such an ingrained part of public life that it's tough to notice except in comparison to how little other sexualities are presented in the media.
    I suppose that's a fair point. But I'm not talking about obvious romantic attachment, dating or hand-holding stuff. When I say I don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives, I'm speaking specifically of the act of sex and the accoutrements thereof.

    I don't have any problem with people of any combination of sex or gender holding hands or walking arm in arm or even kissing in public. It's just that where I'm from, sex is one of those things that we just kind of pretend doesn't happen right up until the point we're having it, and then we keep it to ourselves after the fact. That's what I'm talking about, not the ambient indirect sexual interaction that you seem to be thinking of.

    OptimusZed on
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    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    How about Kesha not wanting to date a boy with a vag?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH8Wg_3NOJQ
    Boy, thats some good LGBTQ support there, lady.

    Ke$ha is pretty terrible, she came out and said that her "We R who We R" song was in support of the gays.

    But she's still fucking terrible.

    Saint Madness on
  • LorahaloLorahalo Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Anyone with a dollar sign in their name obviously don't give a fuck, she's just in it for the money. Plus excessive use of autotune etc.

    Lorahalo on
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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Ke$ha is pretty terrible, she came out and said that her "We R who We R" song was in support of the gays.

    But she's still fucking terrible.
    She said it was, because it was released in the middle of the media coverage of gay teen suicides, but if you actually listen to the song, it very clearly has no connection to the community or any sort of messages of affirmation at all.

    Blackjack on
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  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    So remember the loon in Montana that was trying to ban all anti-discrimination ordinance against gays?

    Fail. It's probably going to die quietly.
    She said it was, because it was released in the middle of the media coverage of gay teen suicides, but if you actually listen to the song, it very clearly has no connection to the community or any sort of messages of affirmation at all.

    I'm ashamed to admit this but I have it on my iPod, it's just another "Yay lets get pissed and dance, we're so mad dudes." song.

    Saint Madness on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm always on the fence with pop stars riding the LGBT equality wave. I have friends who absolutely abhor Lady Gaga, but frankly, the very fact that she brought DADT discharged military members with her to the red carpet and backed up her earlier identification with the community says a lot more to me than anyone who is upset she said "Transgendered" instead of "transgender" in "Born This Way". (I'm fairly sure she still said transgender, but then kinderqueer blogs got all upset because she said orient and that is racist for a reason only known to privileged white kinderqueers speaking for other communities.)

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.

    There's something of an issue when the bulk of people who say keep it in the bedroom actually mean never mention anything remotely homosexual around me.
    Oh yeah, I agree totally.

    I'm definitely not one of those "keep it in the bedroom" people, because I see it for the bullshit "tolerance" that it is. People should have the right to be who they are, regardless of situation or location. Otherwise they're not really free or equal to those of us who are more accepted by society.

    I'm just from a background where sex doesn't really make an appearance in public in really any way, regardless of orientation. So in that way I can see where they're coming from. The problem is that it is used as an excuse for bigotry and oppression, which makes it an unacceptable cop out.

    So, you've never watched television? There's tons of heterosex stuff on tv, but it's seen as normal and desirable. Heterosexuality does make an appearance in public life, but it's such an ingrained part of public life that it's tough to notice except in comparison to how little other sexualities are presented in the media.
    I suppose that's a fair point. But I'm not talking about obvious romantic attachment, dating or hand-holding stuff. When I say I don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives, I'm speaking specifically of the act of sex and the accoutrements thereof.

    I don't have any problem with people of any combination of sex or gender holding hands or walking arm in arm or even kissing in public. It's just that where I'm from, sex is one of those things that we just kind of pretend doesn't happen right up until the point we're having it, and then we keep it to ourselves after the fact. That's what I'm talking about, not the ambient indirect sexual interaction that you seem to be thinking of.

    I'm not talking about you and your friends; I was merely pointing out that you are exposed to heterosexual people's sex lives if you do things like watch tv, read magazines, click on advertisements, etc... If you think that you actually succeed at avoiding knowledge of other people's sex lives, you are truly blind to how routine dominant sexualities are in the media and in society in general. I would argue one step more that you are only aware of homosexuality because it is not seen as the norm and is not something you have been exposed to for years.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I'm always on the fence with pop stars riding the LGBT equality wave. I have friends who absolutely abhor Lady Gaga, but frankly, the very fact that she brought DADT discharged military members with her to the red carpet and backed up her earlier identification with the community says a lot more to me than anyone who is upset she said "Transgendered" instead of "transgender" in "Born This Way". (I'm fairly sure she still said transgender, but then kinderqueer blogs got all upset because she said orient and that is racist for a reason only known to privileged white kinderqueers speaking for other communities.)

    That kind of hand wringing, anal nit picking does the cause of equal rights no favours at all.

    Saint Madness on
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