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[Gay Rights] Scott Walker still trying to get fired.

2456762

Posts

  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm always on the fence with pop stars riding the LGBT equality wave. I have friends who absolutely abhor Lady Gaga, but frankly, the very fact that she brought DADT discharged military members with her to the red carpet and backed up her earlier identification with the community says a lot more to me than anyone who is upset she said "Transgendered" instead of "transgender" in "Born This Way". (I'm fairly sure she still said transgender, but then kinderqueer blogs got all upset because she said orient and that is racist for a reason only known to privileged white kinderqueers speaking for other communities.)

    That kind of hand wringing, anal nit picking does the cause of equal rights no favours at all.
    Yeah, unfortunately the LGBT community has a habit of losing the battle in the details. We spend so much time squabbling over impeccable terminology that we forget why we are here in the first place. :P

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.

    Blackjack on
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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    People who feel a need to bitch at Gaga for the presence or lack of an ed at the end of transgender probably don't have any first hand experience with actual prejudice. Possibly because they never leave their basement internet connection for longer than it takes to piss. :P

    Regina Fong on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.
    Is it pandering? How so? I'm really curious because we seem to, as a community, pretty much destroy anyone that attempts to help us out.

    I noticed that the backlash came first from places like Queerty and kind of spread from there, but no one really has a good explanation yet, as to why she is no longer our ally.

    Jeep- Right?! I find the contrast between what an LGBT person will write on a blog and what they will do in terms of actual activism hilarious. That is a whole nother issue, and I frequently rant about the destruction of LGBT activism by bloggers who feel that sending a facebook group message to wear purple somehow alleviates them of actual responsibility (if they even have that responsibility).

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm not talking about you and your friends; I was merely pointing out that you are exposed to heterosexual people's sex lives if you do things like watch tv, read magazines, click on advertisements, etc... If you think that you actually succeed at avoiding knowledge of other people's sex lives, you are truly blind to how routine dominant sexualities are in the media and in society in general. I would argue one step more that you are only aware of homosexuality because it is not seen as the norm and is not something you have been exposed to for years.
    I'm willing to admit that you may be partially right on the first part, but I find the implication that I am only able to perceive homosexuality as some sort of glitch in the system more than a little insulting.

    We live in the culture that we live in, and that colors our perceptions. There's really no getting around that. But it is entirely possible to view something that doesn't fit squarely into the overarching image of that culture positively and holistically.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm...not sure I ever suggested Gaga wasn't still an ally? I mean, she pretty clearly is. Like, way more than lots and lots of other famous people.

    edit: oh I misread. You were talking about Queerty et al. Sorry.

    Blackjack on
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I was more curious as to how it was pandering and what type of pandering it was.

    I would call HRC pandering more than I would call Lady Gaga pandering, but maybe we have different definitions?

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    On the subject of DADT, 261 personnel were discharged under the policy in 2010. Bringing the total number of people ejected from the military as a result DADT to 13,686.

    Also Huckabee and Pawlenty want it reinstated but fuck those guys.

    Saint Madness on
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I'm not talking about you and your friends; I was merely pointing out that you are exposed to heterosexual people's sex lives if you do things like watch tv, read magazines, click on advertisements, etc... If you think that you actually succeed at avoiding knowledge of other people's sex lives, you are truly blind to how routine dominant sexualities are in the media and in society in general. I would argue one step more that you are only aware of homosexuality because it is not seen as the norm and is not something you have been exposed to for years.
    I'm willing to admit that you may be partially right on the first part, but I find the implication that I am only able to perceive homosexuality as some sort of glitch in the system more than a little insulting.

    We live in the culture that we live in, and that colors our perceptions. There's really no getting around that. But it is entirely possible to view something that doesn't fit squarely into the overarching image of that culture positively and holistically.

    I didn't say what you think that I said. I never claimed that you were making a value judgment about homosexuality at all. I only said that you were more likely to notice that folks were talking about gay sex than hetero sex because heterosexual couplings are seen as routine.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.

    Honestly, the song is growing on me. She might have been trying a bit too hard, but I'm not faulting anyone for that.

    MuddBudd on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It might be pandering, but if one of the most popular pop icons of the day is going to say something about homosexuality, I'm glad it's something positive. It's also a small bit of comfort that she can keep her popularity after being so outspoken. Obviously she's not going to change any minds already made up, but I like the idea that each successive generation is more gay-friendly than the last.

    KalTorak on
  • Regina FongRegina Fong Allons-y, Alonso Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.
    Is it pandering? How so? I'm really curious because we seem to, as a community, pretty much destroy anyone that attempts to help us out.

    I noticed that the backlash came first from places like Queerty and kind of spread from there, but no one really has a good explanation yet, as to why she is no longer our ally.

    Jeep- Right?! I find the contrast between what an LGBT person will write on a blog and what they will do in terms of actual activism hilarious. That is a whole nother issue, and I frequently rant about the destruction of LGBT activism by bloggers who feel that sending a facebook group message to wear purple somehow alleviates them of actual responsibility (if they even have that responsibility).

    I honestly don't read any gay blogs except towelroad (and then only occasionally) but I popped over to this queerty and the first article I saw about Lady Gaga was really a thinly veiled pro-piracy screed.

    So I'm assuming that's less a "gay blog" and more an immature whining blog by someone who happens to be gay.

    I don't think the larger gay community is destructive towards its celebrity icons, although possibly the gay blogsphere is. But then, blogs in general are often trashy and negative.

    Regina Fong on
  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.

    Honestly, the song is growing on me. She might have been trying a bit too hard, but I'm not faulting anyone for that.
    I don't want to be one of Those People, because it's a perfectly okay song (I don't like it as much as I like her prior singles, but it's not awful or anything), but my favorite thing about Born This Way is that it made me rediscover Madonna's MTV Video Award performance of Express Yourself.

    It was good.

    Blackjack on
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    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    That's very true. I use Queerty as a gay tabloid so I can keep up on the issues while researching them myself. It is horribly written and the authors are never ever released. I was thinking more of the kinderqueer hipster tumblrs that are all the rage now a days.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    I'm not talking about you and your friends; I was merely pointing out that you are exposed to heterosexual people's sex lives if you do things like watch tv, read magazines, click on advertisements, etc... If you think that you actually succeed at avoiding knowledge of other people's sex lives, you are truly blind to how routine dominant sexualities are in the media and in society in general. I would argue one step more that you are only aware of homosexuality because it is not seen as the norm and is not something you have been exposed to for years.
    I'm willing to admit that you may be partially right on the first part, but I find the implication that I am only able to perceive homosexuality as some sort of glitch in the system more than a little insulting.

    We live in the culture that we live in, and that colors our perceptions. There's really no getting around that. But it is entirely possible to view something that doesn't fit squarely into the overarching image of that culture positively and holistically.

    I didn't say what you think that I said. I never claimed that you were making a value judgment about homosexuality at all. I only said that you were more likely to notice that folks were talking about gay sex than hetero sex because heterosexual couplings are seen as routine.
    Ooookay.

    Sure.

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Saint MadnessSaint Madness Registered User
    edited March 2011
    On the subject of DADT, 261 personnel were discharged under the policy in 2010. Bringing the total number of people ejected from the military as a result DADT to 13,686.

    Also Huckabee and Pawlenty want it reinstated but fuck those guys.

    Saint Madness on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I really hate using the words Kinderqueer, but it helps me describe a very specific subgroup of outspoken LGBTers that parrot fem theory without actually understanding it or even using it correctly.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    What is "fem theory?"

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feminist theory shortened not because I'm a patriarchal male but because I'm a lazy typer. :P

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    I'm not going to get into the "are the lyrics racist" issue, because this absolutely isn't the place. I will say, though, Gaga does good work for the community, but Born This Way is straight up pandering. Gay anthems are...well, born and not made.

    Honestly, the song is growing on me. She might have been trying a bit too hard, but I'm not faulting anyone for that.
    I don't want to be one of Those People, because it's a perfectly okay song (I don't like it as much as I like her prior singles, but it's not awful or anything), but my favorite thing about Born This Way is that it made me rediscover Madonna's MTV Video Award performance of Express Yourself.

    You know, it wasn't until people told me about it that I even noticed the similarity between the two songs. Honestly though, I don't see it as a bad thing. If anyone is the spiritual successor to Madonna, it's Lady GaGa. She clearly takes a huge amount of inspiration from her.

    MuddBudd on
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  • BlackjackBlackjack Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feminist theory shortened not because I'm a patriarchal male but because I'm a lazy typer. :P
    Uh-huh...funny how feminist was the only word that suffered your "laziness"!
    ;-)

    Blackjack on
    camo_sig2.png

    3DS: 1607-3034-6970
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Feminist theory shortened not because I'm a patriarchal male but because I'm a lazy typer. :P
    Uh-huh...funny how feminist was the only word that suffered your "laziness"!
    ;-)

    fem ory

    KalTorak on
  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Feminist theory shortened not because I'm a patriarchal male but because I'm a lazy typer. :P
    Uh-huh...funny how feminist was the only word that suffered your "laziness"!
    ;-)
    Also by making it a tiny word, I tried to avoid the forum disrupting feminist arguments that have scourged us for the past few months. :P Sorrrry.


    Re: Lady Gaga + Madonna

    I think it was completely an homage to Madonna. For gods sakes, she had pointy gapped teeth at the end. I was really surprised people didn't understand that it was an homage.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    KalTorak wrote: »
    Blackjack wrote: »
    Feminist theory shortened not because I'm a patriarchal male but because I'm a lazy typer. :P
    Uh-huh...funny how feminist was the only word that suffered your "laziness"!
    ;-)

    fem ory
    feminist theo

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • Lord YodLord Yod Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    kinderqueer

    What is this?

    Lord Yod on
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  • ZedarZedar Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The main problem I have encountered in any discussion of transgender issues is that anyone who doesn't know the correct terminology tends to be dismissed as bigoted or ignorant. I'm much in favour of equal rights for all, but the whole cis-man trans-woman etc terminology just isn't common knowledge, and taking offense when someone refers to a "real man" for want of knowledge of a better term doesn't help the debate at all.
    To be fair, the same complaint can be leveled at the whole gay spectrum. Every little subcategory of sexuality wants their own identification and expects everyone to understand what it means, so we end up with groups advocating GLBTQPRWQWERTY rights. Wasn't the whole point of the Q at the end to cover everyone else? A pet peeve of mine is people who call themselves pansexual rather than bisexual, because they're willing to sleep with transgendered types as well (which is surely offensive to the trans-men and women out there who don't want to be considered some strange third gender).

    Zedar on
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  • Fuzzy Cumulonimbus CloudFuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud Nurse, Veteran, Army Mom, Ficus, Space Dad, Survivor Contestant God Bless This Mess Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Zedar, you echo a lot of my current worries.

    I had to work very hard to incorporate transinclusive language into my daily life and it can be very hard, but I think it is necessary. However, the alphabet soup issue is one that could be avoided but everyone wants to be special.

    On pansexuals, I sometimes refer to them as the hisptersexuals, because it is usually (and I am more than aware this is terrible of me) hipster folk that think saying pansexual somehow gives them an up on cutting-edge sexuality.

    Fuzzy Cumulonimbus Cloud on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Omnisexual

    KalTorak on
  • MuddBuddMuddBudd Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Zedar, you echo a lot of my current worries.

    I had to work very hard to incorporate transinclusive language into my daily life and it can be very hard, but I think it is necessary. However, the alphabet soup issue is one that could be avoided but everyone wants to be special.

    On pansexuals, I sometimes refer to them as the hisptersexuals, because it is usually (and I am more than aware this is terrible of me) hipster folk that think saying pansexual somehow gives them an up on cutting-edge sexuality.

    Nobody has ever used the term near before, but if they ever do, I'm already prepared.

    "Pansexual? You fuck pandas?"

    MuddBudd on
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  • OptimusZedOptimusZed Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Zedar, you echo a lot of my current worries.

    I had to work very hard to incorporate transinclusive language into my daily life and it can be very hard, but I think it is necessary. However, the alphabet soup issue is one that could be avoided but everyone wants to be special.

    On pansexuals, I sometimes refer to them as the hisptersexuals, because it is usually (and I am more than aware this is terrible of me) hipster folk that think saying pansexual somehow gives them an up on cutting-edge sexuality.

    Nobody has ever used the term near before, but if they ever do, I'm already prepared.

    "Pansexual? You fuck pandas?"
    "Goats."

    OptimusZed on
    We're reading Rifts. You should too. You know you want to. Now With Ninjas!

    They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
  • DirtyDirtyVagrantDirtyDirtyVagrant Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    It's just another case of people taking shit just a little too seriously and not letting go of their anger and frustration.

    People need to just calm down.

    DirtyDirtyVagrant on
  • adytumadytum Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    adytum wrote: »
    Kylie Minogue did it first, and better.

    *snip*

    Personally I prefer Aphrodite, but goddamn, nice video.

    The guy at about 55 seconds in is the hottest.

    -edit-

    Although the horse was a bit odd. For a second I thought it was going to join in the pile and Kylie had crossed a line. But no, just a horse wandering by.

    How homosapiennormative.

    adytum on
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  • AtomikaAtomika not a robot. does not eat bugs!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    OptimusZed wrote: »
    From a queer theory perspective, I've always been a bit uncomfortable with the whole "Keep what you do in the bedroom and I won't care what you do" form of acceptance.

    1. It feels like tolerance more than acceptance, and that is not what I want from straight people.

    2. It is a way to sequester queer identity away from the public eye, which is exactly what I don't want as an out gay male.
    I agree with the "keep it to yourself" mentality insomuch as I really don't want to think about my acquaintances' sex lives.

    But I also agree with your assessment re: tolerance vs acceptance.

    I really hate the use of the word tolerance on principle.


    I'm mixed on the term, actually.

    I "tolerate" certain mindsets and philosophies because basically the Constitution says I have to. Many times, I object personally to such things, but it's protected speech/thought, so I have to deal with it.

    On the otherhand, being part of the LGBT community shouldn't have to fall under that condition.


    And what's queer theory? I was fairly sure that "queer" and "gay" were not synonyms, and it was hurtful and misleading to perpetuate that stereotype for both gay people AND queer people.

    Atomika on
  • Fallout2manFallout2man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Zedar, you echo a lot of my current worries.

    I had to work very hard to incorporate transinclusive language into my daily life and it can be very hard, but I think it is necessary. However, the alphabet soup issue is one that could be avoided but everyone wants to be special.

    On pansexuals, I sometimes refer to them as the hisptersexuals, because it is usually (and I am more than aware this is terrible of me) hipster folk that think saying pansexual somehow gives them an up on cutting-edge sexuality.

    Nobody has ever used the term near before, but if they ever do, I'm already prepared.

    "Pansexual? You fuck pandas?"

    Whenever I hear the word Pansexual I can't help but think of Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who/Torchwood, who was the first person I ever saw described using the word.

    "Pansexual? So you fuck anything that'll let you put it in?" :p

    Fallout2man on
    On Ignorance:
    Kana wrote:
    If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"

    Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
  • LoveIsUnityLoveIsUnity Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Queer theory is a branch of academic study that grew out of sociology and women's studies (commonly referred to as gender studies in many departments nowadays) that originally focused on an apolitical understanding of the history of sexuality. Foucault comes up a lot as do folks like Sedgwick, Butler, Irigaray, and Cixous. It's widely considered interdisciplinary, but it's sort of become its own thing in the last ten years or so.

    LoveIsUnity on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak Way up inside your butthole, Morty. WAAAAY up inside there.Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    MuddBudd wrote: »
    Zedar, you echo a lot of my current worries.

    I had to work very hard to incorporate transinclusive language into my daily life and it can be very hard, but I think it is necessary. However, the alphabet soup issue is one that could be avoided but everyone wants to be special.

    On pansexuals, I sometimes refer to them as the hisptersexuals, because it is usually (and I am more than aware this is terrible of me) hipster folk that think saying pansexual somehow gives them an up on cutting-edge sexuality.

    Nobody has ever used the term near before, but if they ever do, I'm already prepared.

    "Pansexual? You fuck pandas?"

    Whenever I hear the word Pansexual I can't help but think of Captain Jack Harkness from Doctor Who/Torchwood, who was the first person I ever saw described using the word.

    "Pansexual? So you fuck anything that'll let you put it in?" :p

    Vcw1v.jpg

    KalTorak on
  • ImprovoloneImprovolone Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The only pansexual people I've known (all two of them) were over the top slut machines. Just call it free love like the hippies did.

    Improvolone on
    Voice actor for hire. My time is free if your project is!
  • StericaSterica Wow! That was shit.Registered User, Moderator mod
    edited March 2011
    We need like a GayP stylebook or something. My sheltered, WASPy self cannot keep up with the slang.

    Sterica on
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  • PwnanObrienPwnanObrien He's right, life sucks. Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    As a straight guy who grew up with a small cultural reference pool in the suburbs this thread has really opened my eyes.

    I didn't know...

    I just didn't know that anybody gave a fuck what Katy Perry thinks about anything.

    PwnanObrien on
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  • FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I think of Lister saying "I'm not a frying Panthiest"

    Fencingsax on
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This discussion has been closed.