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NEETs and Basement Dwellers: Are Men Today Taking Longer to Grow Up?

24

Posts

  • Gabriel_PittGabriel_Pitt (effective against the Irish) Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    'Not in employment, education, or training.'
    I first heard it being used in Japan for people who weren't quite the total shut-ins who never leave their home or room, but it's usage has become a lot more widespread.

    Gabriel_Pitt on
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Of course, manly honor being attacked by an article attracts the male PA posters who disagree with it but I want to know what the lady PA posters think about this idea.
    Fair's fair, there are plenty of undateable guys out there. But there are also plenty of undateable women, too. Character flaws know no gender bounds.

    The author seems to think that men are somehow worse than women when it comes to their maturity level, and that the level of male immaturity is approaching epidemic levels.

    And as I've said many times before, "immaturity" is often just a proxy for "character traits I don't like." Not everybody develops along the same path.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Forar wrote: »

    Also, that bit about being "more like the kids we babysat than the dads who drove us home" comes across as kind of creepy.

    Sounds almost like an Electra complex. Though it could be much more innocent than that. I'm wondering if some people don't think they're "grown up" enough unless their partner is equally or more mature.

    Zomro on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The author seems to think that men are somehow worse than women when it comes to their maturity level, and that the level of male immaturity is approaching epidemic levels.

    Maybe to some feminists, that makes sense. Their thinking might be 'we live in The Patriarchy and it is shameful to see men squander the advantages society has given them. If they aren't wearing a suit, they fucked up somewhere in life real bad because men don't have anyone holding them back.'

    emnmnme on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The author seems to think that men are somehow worse than women when it comes to their maturity level, and that the level of male immaturity is approaching epidemic levels.

    Maybe to some feminists, that makes sense. Their thinking might be 'we live in The Patriarchy and it is shameful to see men squander the advantages society has given them. If they aren't wearing a suit, they fucked up somewhere in life real bad because men don't have anyone holding them back.'
    If that is the case, then aren't they also buying into patriarchal notions of gender roles?

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I think her perspective is shaped by a small (relatively) subset of women who live in cities and have high powered jobs. They aren't going to find many people anywhere doing better than they are, so their odds of finding a "traditional-man-brings-home-the-bacon" situation is pretty slim.

    Now that's not to say that they are to blame for having rad jobs and crazy money, but the reality of the situation is that the population that they'd likely want to target is pretty small, and isn't necessarily only looking for someone at or above "their level".

    Malkor on
    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Space Coyote on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    The general assessment that video games and awesome cartoon shows are to blame makes it sound like the author just has a bone to pick with things she doesn't like.

    Correlation is not causation.

    mrt144 on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Man I enjoy all the things they attribute to neckbeards, and I make money, and can support what family I do have.

    WHERE IS YOUR GOD NOW?

    bowen on
    Ladies.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Good little essay. Sums up pretty much my thoughts.
    Maybe I’m hanging out at the wrong bars, but far more common is the twenty- or thirty-something dude (or lady) who has a wide variety of interests, a job he’s ok with but an eye for something better, a wide social network and few external pressures to settle for less than what he really wants, in love or family or career. He might also watch Comedy Central and enjoy a good dick joke and a beer every now and again. And you know, that describes me too. It’s actually pretty great. Dick jokes are funny. Good beer tastes good. I’m also a lawyer and a writer and I’m pretty self-sufficient and in no hurry to achieve any other traditional markers of “adulthood,” insofar as those markers are a husband and babies and a mortgage.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    This kind of thing is akin to some neckbeard whining that all women are worthless because he can't find one who looks like a centerfold and is sexually available, but simultaneously isn't put off by his odious personal habits and also shares his deep appreciation for Naruto.

    My favorite post in this thread. I have dealt with this kinda crap with friends for a while and it just...it just makes me want to slug them really hard.

    mrt144 on
  • mcdermottmcdermott Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Ha. She probably fancies herself one, though. She's one of those godawful people who wants to somehow take all the benefits of feminism, but then somehow shove all of it back into a 1950's-style container. So that women have the full right to pursue advanced education and well-paying jobs, but like no other societal norms change.

    Doesn't work that way. If you want it to be the 50's, you have to get those shoes off, make me a sammich, and we're gettin' to the babymakin'.

    mcdermott on
  • emnmnmeemnmnme Heard about this on conservative radio:Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    emnmnme wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    The author seems to think that men are somehow worse than women when it comes to their maturity level, and that the level of male immaturity is approaching epidemic levels.

    Maybe to some feminists, that makes sense. Their thinking might be 'we live in The Patriarchy and it is shameful to see men squander the advantages society has given them. If they aren't wearing a suit, they fucked up somewhere in life real bad because men don't have anyone holding them back.'
    If that is the case, then aren't they also buying into patriarchal notions of gender roles?

    The sentiment that 'men have all the advantages and the deck is always stacked against women' - I've never heard feminists of today talk about it that way or have higher expectations for men. It's not hypocrisy if it turns out I made the whole thing up.

    emnmnme on
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Ha. She probably fancies herself one, though. She's one of those godawful people who wants to somehow take all the benefits of feminism, but then somehow shove all of it back into a 1950's-style container. So that women have the full right to pursue advanced education and well-paying jobs, but like no other societal norms change.

    Doesn't work that way. If you want it to be the 50's, you have to get those shoes off, make me a sammich, and we're gettin' to the babymakin'.

    So she's a fauxminist?

    Zomro on
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I don't get it.

    Why is there such a emphasis on getting married and starting families? Maybe people finally realized that getting married and starting families is probably not for them?

    I mean, what's the point of having a family? Back in the day everybody had to farm and the cheapest labor pool (outside of slaves) you have is what pops out of a womans vagina and survives to the age of 6. Now....what is the point? I don't need a labor force, and the only reason why I want to have children is so I can spoil them rotten and give them guidance in life that I found lacking in my childhood. So I have no reason to get married and have kids in my 20's.

    She also sprouting about 'Rearing of the next generation is the responsibility of men'. Why? I didn't ask to be born. It wasn't my choice to be born at this time with the privileges I have, so why is it my responsibility to rear the next generation? Why should I care about the next generation?

    Also, what's wrong with playing video games with my friends? I mean, what else is there to do? Stand around in a line on the front lawn and say 'yup' every so often? Play golf all weekend where the most exciting thing to do is flirt with the beer girl that you secretly want to bang? Watch T.V. for 6 hours a day, watching how much my life sucks compare to the dreamlike like luxurious lifestyle that is portrayed on T.V.?

    I mean, fuck, the amount of money needed to live a comfortable life raises exponentially the more mouths you need to feed. Maybe I just want to make a lot of money, spend it all on myself, spend a lot of time with friends, get a vasectomy and have casual sex with a lot of women, and die?

    Casually Hardcore on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20110324/sc_livescience/genynotslackersjustslowstarters

    interesting article relevant to discussion.
    Generation Y is often thought of as a slacker group of young adults who have failed to launch, delaying real careers and families until later in life. But new research suggests their heavy dependence on Mom and Dad might ultimately prepare them to be successful adults.

    Specifically, the study found this generation of "emerging adults" turns to parental support in times of difficultly and as a way to advance their careers in a job market geared toward the highly educated, though most are weaned from such support by their early 30s.

    mrt144 on
  • Space CoyoteSpace Coyote Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Ha. She probably fancies herself one, though.

    Like in her classic Sarah Palin and the Battle for Feminism?

    Containing such choice quotes as,
    Palin may have lost her bid to become vice president; she may have failed to appeal to such prominent conservatives as Peggy Noonan, George Will, and Karl Rove, as well as to lesser right-of-center mortals like this writer; but by leading a wave of new conservative women into the fray, she has changed feminism forever. In fact, this new generation of conservative politicas—having caught, skinned, and gutted liberal feminism as if it were one of Palin’s Alaskan salmon—is transforming the very meaning of a women’s movement.

    Space Coyote on
  • Casually HardcoreCasually Hardcore Once an Asshole. Trying to be better. Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Also, if you listen to the radio interview, there's a 23 years old woman who complained

    "Men are so immature at my age"

    and it was suggested that she date older men. She then complained that she doesn't want to date an older guy who's focus on their career. She wants to date someone her age who likes to have fun, party, have a successful career, and raise a family. See, this is the very definition of 'wanting a cake and eating it too'.

    But, it's a good point that women haves a deadline to meet if she wants to have children. Men do have that option to be financially successorship later in life and date younger women.

    Casually Hardcore on
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited March 2011
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Kay Hymowitz isn't a feminist, before we get ahead of ourselves here.

    Ha. She probably fancies herself one, though.

    Like in her classic Sarah Palin and the Battle for Feminism?

    Containing such choice quotes as,
    Palin may have lost her bid to become vice president; she may have failed to appeal to such prominent conservatives as Peggy Noonan, George Will, and Karl Rove, as well as to lesser right-of-center mortals like this writer; but by leading a wave of new conservative women into the fray, she has changed feminism forever. In fact, this new generation of conservative politicas—having caught, skinned, and gutted liberal feminism as if it were one of Palin’s Alaskan salmon—is transforming the very meaning of a women’s movement.

    I guess Marmie Eisenhower and Nancy Reagan never existed to her.

    JustinSane07 on
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Remember: 70 percent of black children are still born to unmarried mothers. After all that ghetto dwellers have been through, why are so many people still unwilling to call this the calamity it is? Both NOW and the National Association of Social Workers continue to see marriage as a potential source of female oppression. The Children’s Defense Fund still won’t touch the subject. Hip-hop culture glamorizes ghetto life: “ ’cause nowadays it’s like a badge of honor/to be a baby mama” go the words to the current hit “Baby Mama,” which young ghetto mothers view as their anthem. Seriously complicating the issue is the push for gay marriage, which dismissed the formula “children growing up with their own married parents” as a form of discrimination.

    You heard it here first, folks: black people are poor because they just love being single mothers in the ghetto, and also because of gay marriage.

    Seriously, that's the level of discourse and analysis we're dealing with here. Is it any wonder her latest article is equally senseless?

    Obligatory personal anecdote: my fiance Pixels is a hard-working man who puts in 60-70 hours per week on his freelance design business so he can support me while I finish school. He has a keen interest in politics and economics, he loves documentaries, he listens to NPR in the car (which he washes and works on regularly). He stresses out over whether his (short) hair is arranged neatly enough for his business meetings with his clients. Money is tight at the moment because school costs a lot and my part-time job on campus doesn't pay much, so by the time all the bills are paid and some cash is set aside for savings, he has maybe $50-100 per month of disposable income to spend on things that make him happy.

    He doesn't buy beer. He doesn't go to the movies. He doesn't go to the pub with his buddies, or go to wine tastings, or play golf, or save up for a slightly larger widescreen TV. Instead, he checks Craigslist and the two local Goodwill stores nearby and the handful of game shops we have around here, and he buys old video game stuff. When he finds a near-mint copy of StarTropics in its original box (including manual and Dr. Jones' letter) for $4, it makes his day. He grew up with video games, but as an adult, he doesn't just play them: he collects them, he repairs them, he preserves them. He happily spends hours sitting at the kitchen counter with a bottle of rubbing alcohol and a box of Q-tips, carefully cleaning the metal contacts and removing stickers and marker from the labels. He has three arcade cabinets out in the garage, in various states of repair, all picked up cheap, all gradually brought back to life. Video games are important to him personally, but he also thinks they're an important part of our culture, and he takes pride in his well-kept collection.

    Even if I didn't share his love of video games (which I do), what kind of pleasure-hating, sandy-vaginaed bitch would I need to be to resent his interest in them the way Hymowitz so obviously does? I've been reading books to myself since I was four years old, but nobody would belittle me for extending the childish habit of reading into my adult years; why are video games any different? There are books and games for children, sure, but there are also books and games for adults, with complex themes and detailed stories and vibrant characters. My fiance likes Mario Kart and Yoshi's Island, but he also likes Braid and Red Dead Redemption; similarly, I still enjoy reading my juvenile Black Stallion books, but that doesn't preclude my enjoyment of The Malazan Book of the Fallen, or the Aubrey-Maturin series, or The Road.

    All other things being equal, I would much rather be in a relationship with a guy who plays Tekken with me than a guy who flops down in front of the TV for four hours every night, or thinks a good time consists of having me pop out kids so he can yell at them during their Little League games.

    Kate of Lokys on
    I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight [. . .] So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome.
  • acidlacedpenguinacidlacedpenguin Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    warning, anecdotal evidence inbound:

    I'm a 25 year old white male bachelor who lives with his parents in the same house we moved to back in 1988 when my dad took a new job-- the one which he is officially retired from as of today and I'm happy for him, but anyway-- I pay a very small amount of rent to my parents which basically covers groceries and internet, I don't live in the basement, but my computer and video game set-up is in the lounge room.
    I graduate from university with my computer science degree (which took me about 1.5 years longer than it should have because I was slow, laid back, took a summer off to play guitar, and immaturely spent more time partying than studying for a year or so) in May and have been working full-time since October, with a contract that goes until March of 2012. What I'm saying is that sometimes if I haven't shaved for a few days I qualify as a neckbeard nerdo. I enjoy pizza, beer, sci-fi movies, anime, video games, trips to Vegas with the college bros, and riding my bicycle on the road.
    My point? I sort of lost it amid the pre-amble, but in having lived with my parents I managed to escape university without having a student loan; I am debt free. In May I'll be purchasing a new car, $25k down, $12k financed over 8 months. This time next year, I'll have a sweet car, no expenses, hopefully either an extended contract or a new job, with any money made going directly to savings and/or RRSPs. Oh yeah, and I have a nice full health/dental insurance plan. It is at this point where I will be completely financially stable and able to start a nice middle-class life with tons of options open to me.
    I could buy a mini-home, I could rent a condo, I could put a decent downpayment on a house, or I could get a student oriented apartment and save a boatload of money compared to renting a condo, etc.

    it seems to me by this article that my being a man-child with a solid financial background is less desirable than me knocking up a girl at 18, getting two bottom-end minimum wage jobs working more than 40 hours a week just to make ends meet, spending most nights in the bar to delay going home to my shitty house, my wife I've grown to hate (who in return hates me), my crying kid(s), and just generally shitty life, developing a drinking problem, and either dying at an early age due to heart/liver/kidney/lung problems or dying at a late age due to having to work until I'm 80 because I've barely paid enough into pension to make a timely retirement, because fuck yeah I'm a man and I took my manly responsibilities right on the chin like a manly-man man can.

    --oh shit I just realized I'm waaay late to the party for hyperbole Thursday.

    edit: anecdote combo!

    acidlacedpenguin on
    GT: Acidboogie PSNid: AcidLacedPenguiN
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Remember: 70 percent of black children are still born to unmarried mothers. After all that ghetto dwellers have been through, why are so many people still unwilling to call this the calamity it is? Both NOW and the National Association of Social Workers continue to see marriage as a potential source of female oppression. The Children’s Defense Fund still won’t touch the subject. Hip-hop culture glamorizes ghetto life: “ ’cause nowadays it’s like a badge of honor/to be a baby mama” go the words to the current hit “Baby Mama,” which young ghetto mothers view as their anthem. Seriously complicating the issue is the push for gay marriage, which dismissed the formula “children growing up with their own married parents” as a form of discrimination.

    You heard it here first, folks: black people are poor because they just love being single mothers in the ghetto, and also because of gay marriage.

    Seriously, that's the level of discourse and analysis we're dealing with here. Is it any wonder her latest article is equally senseless?
    I don't see where she is saying that black people love being single mothers in the ghetto. Single motherhood is a huge causative factor when it comes to poverty, and certain toxic elements of American underclass culture contribute to the incredibly high illegitimacy rate in the African-American community.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    <3 Kate of Lokys as always

    Grats on being engaged, BTW.
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Single motherhood is a huge causative factor when it comes to poverty

    Absolutely. At the same time, I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that a lot of the political divide between conservatives and liberals right now involves the difference between seeing the single-household nuclear family as the normative economic & social unit, vs. seeing the individual adult as the normative economic & social unit.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • GalahadGalahad Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20110324/sc_livescience/genynotslackersjustslowstarters

    interesting article relevant to discussion.
    Generation Y is often thought of as a slacker group of young adults who have failed to launch, delaying real careers and families until later in life. But new research suggests their heavy dependence on Mom and Dad might ultimately prepare them to be successful adults.

    Specifically, the study found this generation of "emerging adults" turns to parental support in times of difficultly and as a way to advance their careers in a job market geared toward the highly educated, though most are weaned from such support by their early 30s.

    I think a combination of the Greatest's PTSD and the Boomer's raging non-stop selfishness kind of wrecked the family unit in the US, and we are just starting to see that damage heal. Of course parents and children should rely on and support each other.

    X parents have a tendency to wrap their kids in bubble wrap which is kind of an over correction, but I think we're actually getting back to a healthy dynamic, and I expect that we'll see a lot less complaint about it as the commentary from the Boomers gets supplanted more and more by the younger generations.

    Everything I've read says that Y and younger are pretty much kicking X's asses at the game of life.

    Galahad on
  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    This is weird, because from my experience its the women and men who are sort of taking longer to grow up. Not that its a bad thing. I accidently find myself as one of the most grown up folks I know, but in reality I see myself as a kid who never wants to grow up. I plan on playing videogames, beerpong, bags and drinking beers every weekend until the day I die.

    Eventually Ill be playing said games with my kids.

    Eventually eventually Ill be sharing said beers with said kids.

    Honestly though its not jsut guys, the only girls I know who "grew up" are ones who messed up early, had a kid with a dead beat and had absolutely no choice but to do so. And even those still live with their parents and get lots of support, they just seem more grown up cause they are a single mom.

    Disrupter on
    616610-1.png
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Remember: 70 percent of black children are still born to unmarried mothers. After all that ghetto dwellers have been through, why are so many people still unwilling to call this the calamity it is? Both NOW and the National Association of Social Workers continue to see marriage as a potential source of female oppression. The Children’s Defense Fund still won’t touch the subject. Hip-hop culture glamorizes ghetto life: “ ’cause nowadays it’s like a badge of honor/to be a baby mama” go the words to the current hit “Baby Mama,” which young ghetto mothers view as their anthem. Seriously complicating the issue is the push for gay marriage, which dismissed the formula “children growing up with their own married parents” as a form of discrimination.

    You heard it here first, folks: black people are poor because they just love being single mothers in the ghetto, and also because of gay marriage.

    Seriously, that's the level of discourse and analysis we're dealing with here. Is it any wonder her latest article is equally senseless?
    I don't see where she is saying that black people love being single mothers in the ghetto. Single motherhood is a huge causative factor when it comes to poverty, and certain toxic elements of American underclass culture contribute to the incredibly high illegitimacy rate in the African-American community.

    Xaquin on
  • Modern ManModern Man Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    Modern Man wrote: »
    Single motherhood is a huge causative factor when it comes to poverty

    Absolutely. At the same time, I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that a lot of the political divide between conservatives and liberals right now involves the difference between seeing the single-household nuclear family as the normative economic & social unit, vs. seeing the individual adult as the normative economic & social unit.
    I don't know if I agree with that. Few conservatives have any issues with single adults per se, the author here notwithstanding. The problematic single adults are the ones who have children out of wedlock and are unable to take care of them.

    A few conservatives might shake their finger at unmarried, childless adults who "aren't doing their part" for society. But, in terms of social issues conservatives are worried about, that's a demographic that is way, way down the list.

    @Xaquin- that's pointing out the horrible influences exerted by certain segments of the media vis a vis single mothers in the ghetto.

    Modern Man on
    Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
    Rigorous Scholarship

  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I wish I'd spent a year or two living at home after college.

    Sure, I had some awesome experiences, but I racked up a shitload of debt because I wasn't really meeting ends meet and I was too proud to admit it.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • thepotato232thepotato232 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    "The idea that men were going to eventually be husbands and fathers really provided a kind of structure ... an understanding of their role within the society."

    Everyone stand back, I'ma try somethin'.
    "The idea that women were going to eventually be wives and mothers really provided a kind of structure ... an understanding of their role within the society."

    ...

    thepotato232 on
    Butt inquiries are completely fair game.
  • XaquinXaquin Right behind you!Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    "The idea that men were going to eventually be husbands and fathers really provided a kind of structure ... an understanding of their role within the society."

    Everyone stand back, I'ma try somethin'...
    "The idea that women were going to eventually be wives and mothers really provided a kind of structure ... an understanding of their role within the society."

    ...

    pig!

    Xaquin on
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    I wish I'd spent a year or two living at home after college.

    Sure, I had some awesome experiences, but I racked up a shitload of debt because I wasn't really meeting ends meet and I was too proud to admit it.

    I don't know if living at home would have instilled the lesson of living within your means or self actualizing hubris.

    mrt144 on
  • bowenbowen How you doin'? Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    kate + pixels,

    kudos.

    Love,
    Bowen

    bowen on
    Ladies.
  • TofystedethTofystedeth veni, veneri, vamoosi Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    (we don't have Chipolte around here)
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Man, I kinda like Chipolte too.
    Forar wrote: »
    Chipolte

    :x

    Tofystedeth on
    steam_sig.png
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I wish I'd spent a year or two living at home after college.

    Sure, I had some awesome experiences, but I racked up a shitload of debt because I wasn't really meeting ends meet and I was too proud to admit it.

    I don't know if living at home would have instilled the lesson of living within your means or self actualizing hubris.

    It wasn't really a lesson that I needed. If my post-college belt had been any tighter, I would have cut off circulation to my legs.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • ForarForar #432 Toronto, Ontario, CanadaRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    (we don't have Chipolte around here)
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Man, I kinda like Chipolte too.
    Forar wrote: »
    Chipolte

    :x

    I keep hearing it called "chip-olt-ay". >.<

    To be fair, I'm struggling to stop calling Quiznos "Kiz-nose". I'm not even sure why I do that. Quiz. Like the word.

    I am bad with names. :-(

    Forar on
    First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
  • Edith_Bagot-DixEdith_Bagot-Dix Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    (we don't have Chipolte around here)
    mcdermott wrote: »
    Man, I kinda like Chipolte too.
    Forar wrote: »
    Chipolte

    :x

    Can I get you some Chipolte? I hear they have it at Chipotle.

    Edith_Bagot-Dix on


    Also on Steam and PSN: twobadcats
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Kissnose?

    2385597454_99abd9fdc2.jpg

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
  • mrt144mrt144 King of the Numbernames Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Feral wrote: »
    mrt144 wrote: »
    Feral wrote: »
    I wish I'd spent a year or two living at home after college.

    Sure, I had some awesome experiences, but I racked up a shitload of debt because I wasn't really meeting ends meet and I was too proud to admit it.

    I don't know if living at home would have instilled the lesson of living within your means or self actualizing hubris.

    It wasn't really a lesson that I needed. If my post-college belt had been any tighter, I would have cut off circulation to my legs.

    I started living on my own at 19 with limited family support. But I think about how different my life would be if I hadn't racked up 10k in debt, lived at home, etc etc and I just don't know if it's something where you can believe that if one factor was different, life would be the same but better.

    Life would be different but I don't know if anyone can say with any certainty that it would be better.

    mrt144 on
  • Kate of LokysKate of Lokys Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Modern Man wrote: »
    I don't see where she is saying that black people love being single mothers in the ghetto. Single motherhood is a huge causative factor when it comes to poverty, and certain toxic elements of American underclass culture contribute to the incredibly high illegitimacy rate in the African-American community.

    I don't want to go off on too much of a tangent, but seriously, just read the rest of that article. It contains some fairly hilarious/terrifying stuff:
    There was just one small problem: there was no epidemic of teen pregnancy. There was an out-of-wedlock teen-pregnancy epidemic [. . .] Back in the day, however, when they found out they were pregnant, girls had either gotten married or given their babies up for adoption. Not this generation. They were used to seeing children growing up without fathers, and they felt no shame about arriving at the maternity ward with no rings on their fingers, even at 15.

    Yes, things were so much better for everyone involved when teen pregnancies resulted in loveless shotgun marriages! That's seriously what she wants us to return to, even in the main article being discussed in this thread: she thinks the world would be a better place if we all got married and started working fulltime and had kids by age 20, regardless of economic circumstances. She actually references Murray, but she glosses over his entire point: women who become single mothers at a young age don't generally do it because they're shameless hussies who flaunt their baby mama status out of some bizarre, backwards pride, as Hymowitz suggests; they do it because if they're married, they don't get as much welfare, and they can't afford to raise their children. The whole situation is an incredibly complicated catch-22: if you're married and your husband can't find a job because he's poor and has no opportunities, you continue to live in poverty, and your child suffers; if you avoid getting married to get the maximum amount from welfare, you still end up living in poverty, and your child suffers. But Hymowitz presents an incredibly simplified view of the relationship between poverty and marital status, and tries to argue that marriage is the solution to every problem ranging from racial inequality to "pre-adulthood," and she's completely full of shit.

    Anyway. [/tangent]

    Thanks for the grats, Feral and bowen! It's not, like, official-official yet, but he already told me that when we go down to Florida next week to see my parents, he's going to have the "Dr. Lokys, I seek your blessing to wed your daughter" talk with my dad, and I think we've finally settled on a ring. (Apparently my dislike of diamonds made it a fucking nightmare to shop for me).

    Kate of Lokys on
    I'm here to tell you about voting. Imagine you're locked in a huge underground nightclub filled with sinners, whores, freaks and unnameable things that rape pit bulls for fun. And you ain't allowed out until you all vote on what you're going to do tonight [. . .] So you vote for television, and everyone else, as far as your eye can see, votes to fuck you with switchblades. That's voting. You're welcome.
  • FeralFeral MEMETICHARIZARD along with you if I get drunk well I know I'm gonna be gonna be the man whoRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    mrt144 wrote: »
    I started living on my own at 19 with limited family support. But I think about how different my life would be if I hadn't racked up 10k in debt, lived at home, etc etc and I just don't know if it's something where you can believe that if one factor was different, life would be the same but better.

    Life would be different but I don't know if anyone can say with any certainty that it would be better.

    Sure, I totally see what you're saying there.

    Feral on
    every person who doesn't like an acquired taste always seems to think everyone who likes it is faking it. it should be an official fallacy.
    the "no true scotch man" fallacy.
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