Well, can play is different from being able to carry the game on my shoulders. I can play just about every char passably well. But I can singlehandedly induce a 20 minute surrender on Karthus in a good game. My concern is that I'll devote myself to a champion, then watch him get crushed under nerfs and have my heart broken. Hence I need somebody who's secretly OP. Like, somehow Shen is still getting buffs even so I doubt he'll get nerfed soon. I just wish there were one of him for every role.
Also, I saved this screenshot just for you OremLK.
Nice work! I would definitely suggest getting a LW when their frontline champs have that much armor, however
I don't know that I agree Trist is secretly OP but she is at least balanced and is stronger than most people give her credit for. I think she is kind of like Morgana in that sense--she is probably in the top half of the champs of her type but is picked far less frequently than you'd think she would be as a solid or above average champ.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I've gotten pretty happy with my current stable of picks, and want to start branching out more.
Currently use - Shen (tank), Tristana (AD), Zilean (Support), Karthus (AP).
I feel the same way. I'm still pretty low-level (14) and have only been playing for a few weeks but I think I've been doing fairly well with a few characters and winning games by choosing whatever champ will fill out the team. Trist if there's no carry, Amunu if there's no tank, Sivir if there's no support (but she's feeling weaker as games last longer...) I also had some fun bouncing folks into towers with Alistair too.
I've got the 40 champs and need to branch out. I think I might get Garen too since he's cheaper (at least right now) and is getting buffed.
I'm absolutely terrible at mages. I can't quite seem to control the battlefield / kill half the team the way others do when I play Annie or Ryze or whatever mage. I just get team focused/wtf-pwned. I'll have to watch some streams.
Mazlo on
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Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
Sivir gets stronger the longer the game goes on (ricochet carpet of doom, group steroid), unless she gets focused down immediately in which case she's no threat yeah
she's an AD carry in my books though and not support
man Sivir and Sion ult combo has to be quite nasty
Alfred J. Kwak on
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DemonStaceyTTODewback's DaughterIn love with the TaySwayRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Looking for the Moba Doba thread. Is this it? I could not tell.
Also, I need some Shaco tips. Not build wise, going AD. Just like... general non-jungle play tips. He requires a finesse that I'm having trouble with.
Sivir gets stronger the longer the game goes on (ricochet carpet of doom, group steroid), unless she gets focused down immediately in which case she's no threat yeah
she's an AD carry in my books though and not support
man Sivir and Sion ult combo has to be quite nasty
Sivir's only real use now is side pushing with teleport. She is so much worse than every other ranged carry since they nerfed her q to the ground.
florada34 on
LoL summoner name: Kamikazi34
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
her ult is fucking trash except for pushing turrets (where admittedly it's unparalleled)
her q is fucking awful now and she has no range
sivir just sorta sucks now except for pushing turrets, and it almost feels like caitlyn's better at that too since she's got escapes and her q does more damage to minions
damn I'm lv 14 but I've been playing for months. I either don't play nearly as much or win nearly as much as you do.
I'm in a similar boat. I'll have a few staple characters (High five on Amumu love) for each role but I try to spend most of my games trying everyone out.
Kennen needed a dr skin to round out the three of them ninja pillars of justice but I feel like that skin isn't very good. Although I do like the shuriken made from scalpels
I feel the same way. I'm still pretty low-level (14) and have only been playing for a few weeks but I think I've been doing fairly well with a few characters and winning games by choosing whatever champ will fill out the team. Trist if there's no carry, Amunu if there's no tank, Sivir if there's no support (but she's feeling weaker as games last longer...) I also had some fun bouncing folks into towers with Alistair too.
you shouldn't be laning amumu. he is p much the worst laner in the game
also sivir isn't a support champ, and is also a late game champ (she's incredibly powerful at the endgame when she's farmed)
also what sort of level 14 games are you playing when there's no carry? my times pre-20 were defined by "everyone choose a carry"
No one does more damage to minions than sivir. Q + W bouncing off of towers is unparalleled.
nope
caitlyn's q does more damage to minions and has a lower damage reduction, and a damage reduction cap
caitlyn has longer range and can attack faster, and her passive does more damage to minions
the only advantage sivir has over caitlyn vis a vis turret pushing is her w and her ult, which imo doesn't negate caitlyn's escapes, her traps making her able to push safer, and her Q being better than sivir's in literally every way
No one does more damage to minions than sivir. Q + W bouncing off of towers is unparalleled.
nope
caitlyn's q does more damage to minions and has a lower damage reduction, and a damage reduction cap
caitlyn has longer range and can attack faster, and her passive does more damage to minions
the only advantage sivir has over caitlyn vis a vis turret pushing is her w and her ult, which imo doesn't negate caitlyn's escapes, her traps making her able to push safer, and her Q being better than sivir's in literally every way
I mean't q in addition to w. Caitlynn is a much better ranged carry, but that is because Sivir is now just a pusher/bder.
also what sort of level 14 games are you playing when there's no carry? my times pre-20 were defined by "everyone choose a carry"
I can say that my time at lv 14 has just entered the load into champ select and the 4 other people instalock a carry stage
It get's worse at 30 when you show someone like Ryze and immediately 2 people after you auto lock AP champions, there are no tanks and no junglers. You would think by now people would know how to build teams.
Actually that's less annoying then showing smite Rammus and then a Tryndamere locks at the last second with smite and then asks when the game loads, "rammus jungle?" god help me
I would not say Sivir's ultimate is trash. It's a solid ability. Thing is it feels more like a regular ability than an ultimate. (It's quite comparable to Nunu's Bloodboil, for instance.) But that's not necessarily a bad thing, her other abilities ARE really good. The only thing I would maybe change is lowering the cooldown some. It feels like it should always be up when there is a fight, but have a long enough cooldown that you never get to use it twice in one battle. Somewhere around 45-60s would be fine.
Sivir's niche is still late game AoE AD carry. She is not only useful for split pushing, her best use remains standing in a teamfight and bouncing blades through the whole enemy team, while being protected by babysitters like Janna, Zilean, Shen. The thing is, that only works in a relative handful of situations now because they re-nerfed her laning phase and it's much harder for her to get superfarmed.
That's probably as it should be. She fills her niche pretty well now and is marginally balanced, instead of being borderline OP. I don't think there is a way to make her strong in the laning phase/strong without babysitters in teamfights, without her becoming overpowered again.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
I would not say Sivir's ultimate is trash. It's a solid ability. Thing is it feels more like a regular ability than an ultimate. (It's quite comparable to Nunu's Bloodboil, for instance.) But that's not necessarily a bad thing, her other abilities ARE really good. The only thing I would maybe change is lowering the cooldown some. It feels like it should always be up when there is a fight, but have a long enough cooldown that you never get to use it twice in one battle. Somewhere around 45-60s would be fine.
Sivir's niche is still late game AoE AD carry. She is not only useful for split pushing, her best use remains standing in a teamfight and bouncing blades through the whole enemy team, while being protected by babysitters like Janna, Zilean, Shen. The thing is, that only works in a relative handful of situations now because they re-nerfed her laning phase and it's much harder for her to get superfarmed.
That's probably as it should be. She fills her niche pretty well now and is marginally balanced, instead of being borderline OP. I don't think there is a way to make her strong in the laning phase/strong without babysitters in teamfights, without her becoming overpowered again.
her q is awful. period. too slow, too short of range, does no damage, and ends up hitting 0 after it passes through five things
her w is...okay. it's compounded by her awful range that makes it incredibly hard to get good positioning in teamfights without dying
her e is amazing. don't change.
her r is, as you said, a really weak ult that almost feels like a normal ability. it needs to be buffed, especially since she has no range. maybe have it extend her autoattack range (i don't think her having a 500 range when ulting makes her OP, but it allows her to not have to be in the enemy team's fuckin face to do any damage)
they need to either un-nerf sivir's q or make her r better in some way (more move speed? prevents slow? something)
as it stands she's just...so..bad
I disagree, she can still powerfarm in some lane matchups, and if her team can get her to late game, she can still carry the same way (demolishing whole teams with her AoE). If they un-nerf her Q then we're back to square one and she is OP again because nobody can stop her farming. If they buff her ultimate to make it so that she does more damage and/or needs babysitters less, she is too strong in teamfights.
I think she could use some very slight tweaks (like I said lowering the cooldown by 25-50% on her ultimate would be good) but she's right at the borderline between UP and balanced right now. I don't think she's straight garbage or anything like Twitch became.
Edit: Her W is fucking amazing and her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
i mean i love sivir don't get me wrong but i just feel like caitlyn is better in every way besides clutch pushing (which cait is still excellent at)
Rent on
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
the problem with her w is as always the fact that her autoattack range is shit
if she didn't have shit autoattack range her w would be awesome. as it stands you have to be too close to the enemy team as a carry to take advantage of it. that is the problem here
it was mitigated pre-nerf because her Q had such insane range she could harass safely, and she could kill the minions before they got close so her w was only hitting the enemy champs. she doesn't have that any more and it makes her kit awful.
they need to either un-nerf sivir's q or make her r better in some way (more move speed? prevents slow? something)
as it stands she's just...so..bad
I disagree, she can still powerfarm in some lane matchups, and if her team can get her to late game, she can still carry the same way (demolishing whole teams with her AoE). If they un-nerf her Q then we're back to square one and she is OP again because nobody can stop her farming. If they buff her ultimate to make it so that she does more damage and/or needs babysitters less, she is too strong in teamfights.
I think she could use some very slight tweaks (like I said lowering the cooldown by 25-50% on her ultimate would be good) but she's right at the borderline between UP and balanced right now. I don't think she's straight garbage or anything like Twitch became.
Edit: Her W is fucking amazing and her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
If you lowered the cd of her ulti that would only cement her to towers, like she should be doing anyway. Her Q is also awful, I have no idea where you are getting your opinion out of this.
Also every single ranged carry is superior at being a ranged carry than Sivir is in every single way.
i mean i love sivir don't get me wrong but i just feel like caitlyn is better in every way besides clutch pushing (which cait is still excellent at)
The two aren't even comparable in my opinion. They play completely different roles in virtually every way possible while both still being AD carries.
Caitlyn is an early to midgame champ. Sivir is a late game champ.
Caitlyn focuses on abusing her long range and mobility; she is a very self-reliant carry. Sivir focuses on standing in the thick of things and letting loose while being babysat by supports.
Caitlyn is utility and pokes. Sivir is balls to the wall damage.
Apples and oranges, IMO.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
caitlyn's Q is better in every single way besides damage base. it scales better, has a floor of damage, is faster, is over twice as long a range, costs less mana, and is on a lower cooldown
i mean the diff between rank 5 cait q and rank 5 sivir q is 50 damage. that's it
i mean i love sivir don't get me wrong but i just feel like caitlyn is better in every way besides clutch pushing (which cait is still excellent at)
The two aren't even comparable in my opinion. They play completely different roles in virtually every way possible while both still being AD carries.
Caitlyn is an early to midgame champ. Sivir is a late game champ.
Caitlyn focuses on abusing her long range and mobility; she is a very self-reliant carry. Sivir focuses on standing in the thick of things and letting loose while being babysat by supports.
Caitlyn is utility and pokes. Sivir is balls to the wall damage.
Apples and oranges, IMO.
Saying Caitlyn is not a late game champ is like saying Ashe is not a late game champ.
they need to either un-nerf sivir's q or make her r better in some way (more move speed? prevents slow? something)
as it stands she's just...so..bad
I disagree, she can still powerfarm in some lane matchups, and if her team can get her to late game, she can still carry the same way (demolishing whole teams with her AoE). If they un-nerf her Q then we're back to square one and she is OP again because nobody can stop her farming. If they buff her ultimate to make it so that she does more damage and/or needs babysitters less, she is too strong in teamfights.
I think she could use some very slight tweaks (like I said lowering the cooldown by 25-50% on her ultimate would be good) but she's right at the borderline between UP and balanced right now. I don't think she's straight garbage or anything like Twitch became.
Edit: Her W is fucking amazing and her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
If you lowered the cd of her ulti that would only cement her to towers, like she should be doing anyway. Her Q is also awful, I have no idea where you are getting your opinion out of this.
Her Q does 255+0.95*AD damage from one hit (20% reduced on subsequent targets). It can hit one target twice. Do the math, compare it to other non-ultimate nukes. The numbers are fine.
Also every single ranged carry is superior at being a ranged carry than Sivir is in every single way.
Twitch is definitely worse and I would argue Caitlyn is also still worse (although this patch may change that), but again, Sivir fills a very specific role and any direct comparisons are apples to oranges. On the scale of all champions I'd put her a little bit below average.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
Caitlyn is utility and pokes. Sivir is balls to the wall damage.
See but here's the thing, if we define these two roles as that there are so many ranged ad champs that do so much better, easier, safer damage than she does
trist does a shitload of damage in addition to having not one but two flashes at her disposal, in addition to being the longest range champ in the game
ashe can initiate teamfights in addition to being the best kiting champ in the game. her sustained damage when combined with her passive and w is unparalleled
mf has one of the best ults in the game in addition to a kiting ability and range
i could go on but you see my point, if we defome sovor as "balls to the wall damage" there are champs that are simply better than her at balls to the wall damage
her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
caitlyn's Q is better in every single way besides damage base. it scales better, has a floor of damage, is faster, is over twice as long a range, costs less mana, and is on a lower cooldown
i mean the diff between rank 5 cait q and rank 5 sivir q is 50 damage. that's it
Sivir's Q doesn't take a second to charge, and more importantly, can hit one target twice, which is HUGE in the laning phase.
And I just have to laugh at the guy who thinks Caitlyn is comparable to Ashe in the late game. One of these two brings one of the strongest and the longest range CC abilities in the game... the other brings... traps. Which you can see sitting there and walk around.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
caitlyn's Q is better in every single way besides damage base. it scales better, has a floor of damage, is faster, is over twice as long a range, costs less mana, and is on a lower cooldown
i mean the diff between rank 5 cait q and rank 5 sivir q is 50 damage. that's it
Sivir's Q doesn't take a second to charge, and more importantly, can hit one target twice, which is HUGE in the laning phase.
unles you get hit at the tip of sivir's q, if you get hit twice by sivir's q you are a bad player. like, once okay i understand she probs threw it a foot away from you
coming and going? you're bad at dodging skillshots
Caitlyn has no steroid to speak of and her 'w' is ass... the traps are easy to avoid and don't provide any sight if nobody walks over them. I guess her 'q' is nice for farming, but I tend to see lategame caitlyns who don't bring anything mroe to the table than 2 nukes and an escape. She's as squishy as a real carry but doesn't pack the same punch.
It is apples to oranges only because you are comparing a pusher to a ranged carry. However it is not apples to oranges since you are trying to equate Sivir as a ranged carry which she isn't anymore.
Also where is all this Caitlynn hate coming from? She is easily top 5 ranged carry with Ashe, Corki, Ezreal and Urgot.
trist does a shitload of damage in addition to having not one but two flashes at her disposal, in addition to being the longest range champ in the game
Trist's damage is single-target and she WILL do a lot less damage if she stands there auto-attacking in a teamfight than an equally farmed Sivir. Trist's role is pretty hybridized; she splits the difference between late game damage and kiting/mobility.
ashe can initiate teamfights in addition to being the best kiting champ in the game.
She's not the best kiting champ in the game, it depends entirely on the enemy team comp. She's extremely vulnerable to champs with innate blinks or who are immune to slows (Olaf, Yi). Ashe isn't even the best kiting carry, and once you get into Kassadin, Nidalee... it's not even close.
her sustained damage when combined with her passive and w is unparalleled
If you're talking about Ashe this is nonsense, her damage is much lower than other carries. She makes up for it with the best utility of any carry in the game (amazing CC ultimate, built-in Clairvoyance, AoE poke and AoE slows).
mf has one of the best ults in the game in addition to a kiting ability and range
MF's ultimate is amazing in midgame teamfights. It tapers off SIGNIFICANTLY late game. She's kind of like an early to midgame focused version of Sivir. She fits better on an AoE team which wants to win before the game goes late, whereas Sivir is best on an AoE team which wants to scale into the late game.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
It is apples to oranges only because you are comparing a pusher to a ranged carry. However it is not apples to oranges since you are trying to equate Sivir as a ranged carry which she isn't anymore.
Also where is all this Caitlynn hate coming from? She is easily top 5 ranged carry with Ashe, Corki, Ezreal and Urgot.
She has no steriod, her escape is very weak, her traps are easily avoidable, and her ult needs a buff. Her base stats are a little lacking (though this patch should help). She needs work.
Posts
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
Nice work! I would definitely suggest getting a LW when their frontline champs have that much armor, however
I don't know that I agree Trist is secretly OP but she is at least balanced and is stronger than most people give her credit for. I think she is kind of like Morgana in that sense--she is probably in the top half of the champs of her type but is picked far less frequently than you'd think she would be as a solid or above average champ.
Alvin and the Chipmunkskins do no nut count
I feel the same way. I'm still pretty low-level (14) and have only been playing for a few weeks but I think I've been doing fairly well with a few characters and winning games by choosing whatever champ will fill out the team. Trist if there's no carry, Amunu if there's no tank, Sivir if there's no support (but she's feeling weaker as games last longer...) I also had some fun bouncing folks into towers with Alistair too.
I've got the 40 champs and need to branch out. I think I might get Garen too since he's cheaper (at least right now) and is getting buffed.
I'm absolutely terrible at mages. I can't quite seem to control the battlefield / kill half the team the way others do when I play Annie or Ryze or whatever mage. I just get team focused/wtf-pwned. I'll have to watch some streams.
she's an AD carry in my books though and not support
man Sivir and Sion ult combo has to be quite nasty
Also, I need some Shaco tips. Not build wise, going AD. Just like... general non-jungle play tips. He requires a finesse that I'm having trouble with.
Sivir's only real use now is side pushing with teleport. She is so much worse than every other ranged carry since they nerfed her q to the ground.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
her q is fucking awful now and she has no range
sivir just sorta sucks now except for pushing turrets, and it almost feels like caitlyn's better at that too since she's got escapes and her q does more damage to minions
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
I'm in a similar boat. I'll have a few staple characters (High five on Amumu love) for each role but I try to spend most of my games trying everyone out.
Kennen needed a dr skin to round out the three of them ninja pillars of justice but I feel like that skin isn't very good. Although I do like the shuriken made from scalpels
you shouldn't be laning amumu. he is p much the worst laner in the game
also sivir isn't a support champ, and is also a late game champ (she's incredibly powerful at the endgame when she's farmed)
also what sort of level 14 games are you playing when there's no carry? my times pre-20 were defined by "everyone choose a carry"
Amumu's great though, my first tank, however Shen is so much more useful and Alistar is much more fun and Rammus is OP out of the jungle.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
nope
caitlyn's q does more damage to minions and has a lower damage reduction, and a damage reduction cap
caitlyn has longer range and can attack faster, and her passive does more damage to minions
the only advantage sivir has over caitlyn vis a vis turret pushing is her w and her ult, which imo doesn't negate caitlyn's escapes, her traps making her able to push safer, and her Q being better than sivir's in literally every way
I can say that my time at lv 14 has just entered the load into champ select and the 4 other people instalock a carry stage
I mean't q in addition to w. Caitlynn is a much better ranged carry, but that is because Sivir is now just a pusher/bder.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
It get's worse at 30 when you show someone like Ryze and immediately 2 people after you auto lock AP champions, there are no tanks and no junglers. You would think by now people would know how to build teams.
Actually that's less annoying then showing smite Rammus and then a Tryndamere locks at the last second with smite and then asks when the game loads, "rammus jungle?" god help me
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
Sivir's niche is still late game AoE AD carry. She is not only useful for split pushing, her best use remains standing in a teamfight and bouncing blades through the whole enemy team, while being protected by babysitters like Janna, Zilean, Shen. The thing is, that only works in a relative handful of situations now because they re-nerfed her laning phase and it's much harder for her to get superfarmed.
That's probably as it should be. She fills her niche pretty well now and is marginally balanced, instead of being borderline OP. I don't think there is a way to make her strong in the laning phase/strong without babysitters in teamfights, without her becoming overpowered again.
as it stands she's just...so..bad
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
her q is awful. period. too slow, too short of range, does no damage, and ends up hitting 0 after it passes through five things
her w is...okay. it's compounded by her awful range that makes it incredibly hard to get good positioning in teamfights without dying
her e is amazing. don't change.
her r is, as you said, a really weak ult that almost feels like a normal ability. it needs to be buffed, especially since she has no range. maybe have it extend her autoattack range (i don't think her having a 500 range when ulting makes her OP, but it allows her to not have to be in the enemy team's fuckin face to do any damage)
I disagree, she can still powerfarm in some lane matchups, and if her team can get her to late game, she can still carry the same way (demolishing whole teams with her AoE). If they un-nerf her Q then we're back to square one and she is OP again because nobody can stop her farming. If they buff her ultimate to make it so that she does more damage and/or needs babysitters less, she is too strong in teamfights.
I think she could use some very slight tweaks (like I said lowering the cooldown by 25-50% on her ultimate would be good) but she's right at the borderline between UP and balanced right now. I don't think she's straight garbage or anything like Twitch became.
Edit: Her W is fucking amazing and her Q is still one of the highest damage single target nukes in the game (even though it's a tricky skillshot, the numbers are good).
if she didn't have shit autoattack range her w would be awesome. as it stands you have to be too close to the enemy team as a carry to take advantage of it. that is the problem here
it was mitigated pre-nerf because her Q had such insane range she could harass safely, and she could kill the minions before they got close so her w was only hitting the enemy champs. she doesn't have that any more and it makes her kit awful.
If you lowered the cd of her ulti that would only cement her to towers, like she should be doing anyway. Her Q is also awful, I have no idea where you are getting your opinion out of this.
Also every single ranged carry is superior at being a ranged carry than Sivir is in every single way.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
The two aren't even comparable in my opinion. They play completely different roles in virtually every way possible while both still being AD carries.
Caitlyn is an early to midgame champ. Sivir is a late game champ.
Caitlyn focuses on abusing her long range and mobility; she is a very self-reliant carry. Sivir focuses on standing in the thick of things and letting loose while being babysat by supports.
Caitlyn is utility and pokes. Sivir is balls to the wall damage.
Apples and oranges, IMO.
caitlyn's Q is better in every single way besides damage base. it scales better, has a floor of damage, is faster, is over twice as long a range, costs less mana, and is on a lower cooldown
i mean the diff between rank 5 cait q and rank 5 sivir q is 50 damage. that's it
Saying Caitlyn is not a late game champ is like saying Ashe is not a late game champ.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
Her Q does 255+0.95*AD damage from one hit (20% reduced on subsequent targets). It can hit one target twice. Do the math, compare it to other non-ultimate nukes. The numbers are fine.
Twitch is definitely worse and I would argue Caitlyn is also still worse (although this patch may change that), but again, Sivir fills a very specific role and any direct comparisons are apples to oranges. On the scale of all champions I'd put her a little bit below average.
See but here's the thing, if we define these two roles as that there are so many ranged ad champs that do so much better, easier, safer damage than she does
trist does a shitload of damage in addition to having not one but two flashes at her disposal, in addition to being the longest range champ in the game
ashe can initiate teamfights in addition to being the best kiting champ in the game. her sustained damage when combined with her passive and w is unparalleled
mf has one of the best ults in the game in addition to a kiting ability and range
i could go on but you see my point, if we defome sovor as "balls to the wall damage" there are champs that are simply better than her at balls to the wall damage
Sivir's Q doesn't take a second to charge, and more importantly, can hit one target twice, which is HUGE in the laning phase.
And I just have to laugh at the guy who thinks Caitlyn is comparable to Ashe in the late game. One of these two brings one of the strongest and the longest range CC abilities in the game... the other brings... traps. Which you can see sitting there and walk around.
ashe is not a late game champ. ashe is a mid game champ
<- mained ashe from 1 to 20
coming and going? you're bad at dodging skillshots
Also where is all this Caitlynn hate coming from? She is easily top 5 ranged carry with Ashe, Corki, Ezreal and Urgot.
PS4: Kamikazi34Agny
Trist's damage is single-target and she WILL do a lot less damage if she stands there auto-attacking in a teamfight than an equally farmed Sivir. Trist's role is pretty hybridized; she splits the difference between late game damage and kiting/mobility.
She's not the best kiting champ in the game, it depends entirely on the enemy team comp. She's extremely vulnerable to champs with innate blinks or who are immune to slows (Olaf, Yi). Ashe isn't even the best kiting carry, and once you get into Kassadin, Nidalee... it's not even close.
If you're talking about Ashe this is nonsense, her damage is much lower than other carries. She makes up for it with the best utility of any carry in the game (amazing CC ultimate, built-in Clairvoyance, AoE poke and AoE slows).
MF's ultimate is amazing in midgame teamfights. It tapers off SIGNIFICANTLY late game. She's kind of like an early to midgame focused version of Sivir. She fits better on an AoE team which wants to win before the game goes late, whereas Sivir is best on an AoE team which wants to scale into the late game.
She has no steriod, her escape is very weak, her traps are easily avoidable, and her ult needs a buff. Her base stats are a little lacking (though this patch should help). She needs work.
despite her ult tapering off lategame, double up, impure shots and make it rain are all pretty damn good