The game makes it overtly appear as if mage behaviour was due to Templar abuse, but digging a little deeper will show that it's actually because Kirkwall is a fucked up place where the Veil is thin due to the horrific treatment of its slaves by the Tevinter Emperium years ago.
Thin veil - easier access to demons - Templars forced to be more strict - mages grow desperate - DA2 happens.
The game makes it pretty clear that Kirkwall mages were driven to insanity and desperation by the Tevinter mages of old ripping the Veil apart around the city. Mentally-ill-sociopath Quentin was pretty much the only person who was just an innately evil asshole.
Less important than templar kidnapping, beating, lobotomizing and torturing young mages just in case they grow up to be evil bitter terrotists.
Oh, wait.
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Iron WeaselDillon!You son of a bitch!Registered Userregular
edited March 2011
So I'm still hacking away at this, making my way through Act 3. Took a shot at Mine Massacre and got KO'd almost immediately, so I guess I have to rethink my approach to that one - and I think I better do it before I help Anders, because I have a sneaking suspicion that I know what he has in mind, that dumb shit.
I also got the Merrill bug, but I understand that her quest should still trigger normally, right? And I guess Who Needs Rescuing? is broken? I scoured the Coast but couldn't find anything.
Oh, while visiting Sundermount, I found a scroll. My journal says that a secret cave has been added to my map, but I'm not sure where it is ('cause it's secret, I guess?) Is that the 'recently open cave' with the special vendor, or is the secret cave somewhere up the mountain?
And thanks again to AspectVoid for the advice on the Isabela bug. By saving when she's in the party and loading from those saves, I seem to be managing the issue.
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GT: Tanith 6227
The Magisters control the populace by infiltrating their dreams and mind controlling them. They don't need to nuke towns to be a danger.
bullshit.
A) dreamers are rare.
b) just because dreamers *can* mind control or kill people in their sleep doesn't mean they do it all the time
and besides, you're not changing the argument. some mages are bound to be assholes. And there's nothing stopping a dreamer from taking a circle and its templars apart.
"Kidnap" is a necessary evil to stop the kids blowing themselves and their villages up i.e. Meredith's sister/raising a fucking army of the dead i.e. the kid in DA:O.
Lobotomy is a tragic tool used to stop blood mages from being a threat - Kirkwall's high amount of blood mages means a lot of Tranquil.
Beating and torture are abuses carried out by asshole Templars who should be removed from their positions. Friendship with mages is discouraged but that's as far as it goes.
"Kidnap" is a necessary evil to stop the kids blowing themselves and their villages up i.e. Meredith's sister/raising a fucking army of the dead i.e. the kid in DA:O.
Lobotomy is a tragic tool used to stop blood mages from being a threat - Kirkwall's high amount of blood mages means a lot of Tranquil.
Beating and torture are abuses carried out by asshole Templars who should be removed from their positions. Friendship with mages is discouraged but that's as far as it goes.
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
Yeah, I'm of the mind that a strong templar order is essential to creating a balance between Mages and non-mages and should act as protectors of both parties.
This is what pisses me off about anders
He deliberatley and willfully removed any posibility of a peaceful solution by killing the one person who could have peacefully resolved the matter in the most spectacularly hostile manner imaginable. Like, as nutty as meredith was she was still beholden to the will of the grand cleric and if she had tried to move against her then her templars would have moved against her in very short order.
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
edit:
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
Without templars there'd be no one to make sure they aren't resorting to blood magic or demon summoning until it was too late.
Yeah, I'm of the mind that a strong templar order is essential to creating a balance between Mages and non-mages and should act as protectors of both parties.
This is what pisses me off about anders
He deliberatley and willfully removed any posibility of a peaceful solution by killing the one person who could have peacefully resolved the matter in the most spectacularly hostile manner imaginable. Like, as nutty as meredith was she was still beholden to the will of the grand cleric and if she had tried to move against her then her templars would have moved against her in very short order.
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
lies and slander!
suggesting that if mages were to go free thedas would become like tevinter is like saying any and all apostates are evil maleficar, which simply isn't true.
Yeah, I'm of the mind that a strong templar order is essential to creating a balance between Mages and non-mages and should act as protectors of both parties.
This is what pisses me off about anders
He deliberatley and willfully removed any posibility of a peaceful solution by killing the one person who could have peacefully resolved the matter in the most spectacularly hostile manner imaginable. Like, as nutty as meredith was she was still beholden to the will of the grand cleric and if she had tried to move against her then her templars would have moved against her in very short order.
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
The templar solution had its shot, failed miserably and provided more than enough fuel for this conflict. I'm rather curious to see what the compromise here will be, unless there is a clear victor to the coming war.
Yeah, I'm of the mind that a strong templar order is essential to creating a balance between Mages and non-mages and should act as protectors of both parties.
This is what pisses me off about anders
He deliberatley and willfully removed any posibility of a peaceful solution by killing the one person who could have peacefully resolved the matter in the most spectacularly hostile manner imaginable. Like, as nutty as meredith was she was still beholden to the will of the grand cleric and if she had tried to move against her then her templars would have moved against her in very short order.
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
The templar solution had its shot, failed miserably and provided more than enough fuel for this conflict. I'm rather curious to see what the compromise here will be, unless there is a clear victor to the coming war.
Whichever side the new protagonist sides with, I would guess?
Hopefully we'll get better writing for 3 than what we got for the ending of 2.
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
You outlined the problem yourself with 'nice demon'. Assume every other mage is like Irving or Wynne talking to a teenager, this is how it plays out:
"Do not listen to demons. They will try and trick you. Use other means to help people."
"I'm young and spunky and I know better than my elders! The demon is promising me things I find very compelling; I am sure I will be able to maintain an upper hand using my few years of experience!"
Fast-forward the scene and whoops, looks like the your entire Dalish settlement got killed- Wait, I think I've gone off on a tangent.
This does not even touch on the fact that some people are just assholes. Asshole mages will attempt to turn you into batteries with or without a police force specifically designed to keep them in check; they are just going to be less successful in the former case.
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
You outlined the problem yourself with 'nice demon'. Assume every other mage is like Irving or Wynne talking to a teenager, this is how it plays out:
"Do not listen to demons. They will try and trick you. Use other means to help people."
"I'm young and spunky and I know better than my elders! The demon is promising me things I find very compelling; I am sure I will be able to maintain an upper hand using my few years of experience!"
Fast-forward the scene and whoops, looks like the your entire Dalish settlement got killed- Wait, I think I've gone off on a tangent.
I'm looking forward to another opportunity to slaughter a Dalish clan in DA3. Sort of like punching the reporter in Mass Effect.
Yeah, I'm of the mind that a strong templar order is essential to creating a balance between Mages and non-mages and should act as protectors of both parties.
This is what pisses me off about anders
He deliberatley and willfully removed any posibility of a peaceful solution by killing the one person who could have peacefully resolved the matter in the most spectacularly hostile manner imaginable. Like, as nutty as meredith was she was still beholden to the will of the grand cleric and if she had tried to move against her then her templars would have moved against her in very short order.
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
The templar solution had its shot, failed miserably and provided more than enough fuel for this conflict. I'm rather curious to see what the compromise here will be, unless there is a clear victor to the coming war.
Well, during the epilogue Varric mentions that the templars are rebelling along with the mages, which speaks rather strongly for compromise to be found. Honestly, Thrask had the right idea. Nobody likes abominations or blood mages going all vampire on people, so both parties should be able to cooperate to keep them in check.
I still don't understand the actual benefits of Blood Magic.
I mean
They really seem to all use it for 2, maybe 4 seconds if they're lucky. Then they get possessed and killed like immediately. Well, I guess maybe they last longer without a Protagonist around but still.
lies and slander!
suggesting that if mages were to go free thedas would become like tevinter is like saying any and all apostates are evil maleficar, which simply isn't true.
Man you got your head up your ass.
The reason the Mages run shit in tevinter is because they've spent thousands of years with no one to police them but themselves and their is simply no one to stand up to them. I'm sure some of them are decent people but still: it's way too much power to be left in the hands of the few with no outside input.
I'm rather curious to see what the compromise here will be, unless there is a clear victor to the coming war.
More general freedom for mages to spend time with their families and the general world while still submitting phylactaries and maintaining a healthy population of templars?
Are achievements class specific? I played Rogue and missed several despite doing as many side/secondary quests as I could. Also, end romance:
I asked Merrill to move in, and also chatted up Isabella, but only Isabella stayed with me in the end.
The little audio glitch thing they did was funny.
RE: blood magic
Seems to me Merrill is the only one who approaches it as just another school of magic, where as everyone else treats it as "only evil and only should be used as a last resort". Since mages in Kirkwall are at their ropes end, seems like that would be why they often resort to it.
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
You outlined the problem yourself with 'nice demon'. Assume every other mage is like Irving or Wynne talking to a teenager, this is how it plays out:
"Do not listen to demons. They will try and trick you. Use other means to help people."
"I'm young and spunky and I know better than my elders! The demon is promising me things I find very compelling; I am sure I will be able to maintain an upper hand using my few years of experience!"
Fast-forward the scene and whoops, looks like the your entire Dalish settlement got killed- Wait, I think I've gone off on a tangent.
This does not even touch on the fact that some people are just assholes. Asshole mages will attempt to turn you into batteries with or without a police force specifically designed to keep them in check; they are just going to be less successful in the former case.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
Yes we can. People with superpowers > people without superpowers. It's rule by mages or rule over mages, and once you have a mageocracy you will see mage politicians taking any advantage they can get over their rivals i.e. blood magic.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
As for blood magic, I think it's a different level of magical might, if you will. I've always thought of it as such: common housewife mage A can toss a bit of fire. Cute. Not super city-level danger or anything. But should she use blood magic then suddenly she can enslave minds and summon nasties as if she were Evil Gandalf(tm).
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
You outlined the problem yourself with 'nice demon'. Assume every other mage is like Irving or Wynne talking to a teenager, this is how it plays out:
"Do not listen to demons. They will try and trick you. Use other means to help people."
"I'm young and spunky and I know better than my elders! The demon is promising me things I find very compelling; I am sure I will be able to maintain an upper hand using my few years of experience!"
Fast-forward the scene and whoops, looks like the your entire Dalish settlement got killed- Wait, I think I've gone off on a tangent.
This does not even touch on the fact that some people are just assholes. Asshole mages will attempt to turn you into batteries with or without a police force specifically designed to keep them in check; they are just going to be less successful in the former case.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
What do you mean, "you guys"?!
:P I didn't even mention Tevinter, and my example has nothing to do with being in a circle and everything to do with why unsupervised mages are dangerous.
Qunari mages understand their place and would rather die than live without purpose and fall to demons. Those guys are doing something right.
Apart from the part where it hamstrings their military dominance.
Plus they're so goddamn bound by their code it leads to stupidity in dealing with the rest of the world. If we're using the Qunari as example of the way to go then I gotta say what the freaking hell, lads? Let's just toss personal freedom and individual choice out the window.
Plus, their leaders have this nasty habit of falling on my daggers. Over and over. For about 20 minutes.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
As for blood magic, I think it's a different level of magical might, if you will. I've always thought of it as such: common housewife mage A can toss a bit of fire. Cute. Not super city-level danger or anything. But should she use blood magic then suddenly she can enslave minds and summon nasties as if she were Evil Gandalf(tm).
The problem with it is that any mage who wants blood magic can get it if they're desperate enough; It doesn't require physical resources or lengthy rituals.
What has freedom brought to the people of Thedas? Struggle is an illusion. Victory is in the Qun.
The qunari military is fine. Free saarebas would be more trouble than they're worth. Qunari are actually hella educated in foreign customs, but it is their belief that all the world must eventually submit to the Qun. Which would improve it.
Know what would have been interesting? If right at the start, Bethany had been forced to use Blood Magic to save you from the Darkspawn. That would have worked a lot better than Merrill's whole "I really want to risk my life to fix this mirror" schtick , Bethany would have been more interesting and Anders wouldn't have been forced to become such a lamer.
Couple that with Wesley surviving and you could have had a really in-depth, personal look at both sides of the argument.
Know what would have been interesting? If right at the start, Bethany had been forced to use Blood Magic to save you from the Darkspawn. That would have worked a lot better than Merrill's whole "I really want to risk my life to fix this mirror" schtick , Bethany would have been more interesting and Anders wouldn't have been forced to become such a lamer.
Couple that with Wesley surviving and you could have had a really in-depth, personal look at both sides of the argument.
I really like that Bethany stays legitimate. I can't even say that about either protagonist.
Know what would have been interesting? If right at the start, Bethany had been forced to use Blood Magic to save you from the Darkspawn. That would have worked a lot better than Merrill's whole "I really want to risk my life to fix this mirror" schtick , Bethany would have been more interesting and Anders wouldn't have been forced to become such a lamer.
Couple that with Wesley surviving and you could have had a really in-depth, personal look at both sides of the argument.
I really like that Bethany stays legitimate. I can't even say that about either protagonist.
Oh, me too. One good egg in a whole basketful of rotten ones, because she grew up safely away from Kirkwall's evil influence :P
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
I think what people are hesitant to accept is that the idea that the current Templar solution is the middle ground. The Qunari are the opposite extreme. You can't give mages more freedom than they currently have because of ye old "Mage in the ass end of nowhere goes Abom without anyone knowing for weeks/longer" issue. A Fereldan Tower situation unchecked could be completely disastrous with even a small number of mages.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
I think what people are hesitant to accept is that the idea that the current Templar solution is the middle ground. The Qunari are the opposite extreme. You can't give mages more freedom than they currently have because of ye old "Mage in the ass end of nowhere goes Abom without anyone knowing for weeks/longer" issue. A Fereldan Tower situation unchecked could be completely disastrous with even a small number of mages.
I'd argue that. For example: why circle towers? why not circle villages? where the mages can live with their families and actually have villages of their own? Proper villages. You have phylactries to ensure mages don't run off so why the hell not?
Edit: The less you treat mages like prisoners with a disease the less likely they'll goddamn turn into the thing you're afraid of. No solution will work if the mages are treated like shit, that's as much of a reality as the fact that mages can't be left to wander 100% unsupervised. You can't acknowledge the one without realising the other.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
I think what people are hesitant to accept is that the idea that the current Templar solution is the middle ground. The Qunari are the opposite extreme. You can't give mages more freedom than they currently have because of ye old "Mage in the ass end of nowhere goes Abom without anyone knowing for weeks/longer" issue. A Fereldan Tower situation unchecked could be completely disastrous with even a small number of mages.
So go ahead and have a templar as their travel partner when they go off to visit their family. Make sure that they get rotated every so often so that the templar assigned to them can maintain objectivity.
By the same coin: Make sure that a solid screening process is done for the templars so that they aren't brutal dicks or weak willed or such.
Current status quo doesn't mean that the situation can't shift a little more in the favor of mages.
Posts
Thin veil - easier access to demons - Templars forced to be more strict - mages grow desperate - DA2 happens.
E: Beat'd
Less important than templar kidnapping, beating, lobotomizing and torturing young mages just in case they grow up to be evil bitter terrotists.
Oh, wait.
I also got the Merrill bug, but I understand that her quest should still trigger normally, right? And I guess Who Needs Rescuing? is broken? I scoured the Coast but couldn't find anything.
Oh, while visiting Sundermount, I found a scroll. My journal says that a secret cave has been added to my map, but I'm not sure where it is ('cause it's secret, I guess?) Is that the 'recently open cave' with the special vendor, or is the secret cave somewhere up the mountain?
And thanks again to AspectVoid for the advice on the Isabela bug. By saving when she's in the party and loading from those saves, I seem to be managing the issue.
The Division, Warframe (XB1)
GT: Tanith 6227
That's the spirit. Free my people!
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Lobotomy is a tragic tool used to stop blood mages from being a threat - Kirkwall's high amount of blood mages means a lot of Tranquil.
Beating and torture are abuses carried out by asshole Templars who should be removed from their positions. Friendship with mages is discouraged but that's as far as it goes.
bullshit!
if mages were free people wouldnt have to hide apostates and hope they figure magic out on their own. they can simply ask any of the other mages in town how to do XYZ and how to tell that nice demon to take a hike.
This is what pisses me off about anders
Letting mages run wild without anyone to keep them in check except themselves is a fast track to Tevinter imperium 2.0 and I hope we can all see why that is a bad idea.
All of that having been said, others have already postulated that softening the isolationist policies of the circles would go a long way towards making mages and their proponents much more co-operative with the templars.
edit:
Without templars there'd be no one to make sure they aren't resorting to blood magic or demon summoning until it was too late.
lies and slander!
suggesting that if mages were to go free thedas would become like tevinter is like saying any and all apostates are evil maleficar, which simply isn't true.
The templar solution had its shot, failed miserably and provided more than enough fuel for this conflict. I'm rather curious to see what the compromise here will be, unless there is a clear victor to the coming war.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
Whichever side the new protagonist sides with, I would guess?
Hopefully we'll get better writing for 3 than what we got for the ending of 2.
You outlined the problem yourself with 'nice demon'. Assume every other mage is like Irving or Wynne talking to a teenager, this is how it plays out:
"Do not listen to demons. They will try and trick you. Use other means to help people."
"I'm young and spunky and I know better than my elders! The demon is promising me things I find very compelling; I am sure I will be able to maintain an upper hand using my few years of experience!"
This does not even touch on the fact that some people are just assholes. Asshole mages will attempt to turn you into batteries with or without a police force specifically designed to keep them in check; they are just going to be less successful in the former case.
I think that particular scene spoke more to the idiocy of Merrill's entire clan than anything else.
I mean
They really seem to all use it for 2, maybe 4 seconds if they're lucky. Then they get possessed and killed like immediately. Well, I guess maybe they last longer without a Protagonist around but still.
Man you got your head up your ass.
The reason the Mages run shit in tevinter is because they've spent thousands of years with no one to police them but themselves and their is simply no one to stand up to them. I'm sure some of them are decent people but still: it's way too much power to be left in the hands of the few with no outside input.
More general freedom for mages to spend time with their families and the general world while still submitting phylactaries and maintaining a healthy population of templars?
Still seems to be in the range of healthy debate to me.
Are achievements class specific? I played Rogue and missed several despite doing as many side/secondary quests as I could. Also, end romance:
The little audio glitch thing they did was funny.
RE: blood magic
Seems to me Merrill is the only one who approaches it as just another school of magic, where as everyone else treats it as "only evil and only should be used as a last resort". Since mages in Kirkwall are at their ropes end, seems like that would be why they often resort to it.
what?
rebellious teenagers will be rebellious regardless of whether in or not in a circle. Your argument is pointless!
you guys can't keep referring to tevinter to portray mages as "the big bad".
At the very least they could have stopped fighting after I'd gutted the handful that tried to kill me. Silly Dalish.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
The difference between rebellious farmers kid with a pitchfork and rebellious kid who is able to level a village, summon hordes of the undead and turn himself into an insane abomination should be obvious.
And Hey: if you don't want me to use Tevinter as proof that mages left to their own devices become doushebags then your more then welcome to concede that extremes are bad and moderation between templars and mages is the way to go.
Yes we can. People with superpowers > people without superpowers. It's rule by mages or rule over mages, and once you have a mageocracy you will see mage politicians taking any advantage they can get over their rivals i.e. blood magic.
Man has a point. Mages can have freedom while the Templars are maintained. I'm pro-mage, but even I'd be hesitant to just let Mages run free. The current situation is obviously unacceptable (to me, I know. It's an opinion.) but that doesn't mean jumping to the extreme opposite should be the only alternative.
As for blood magic, I think it's a different level of magical might, if you will. I've always thought of it as such: common housewife mage A can toss a bit of fire. Cute. Not super city-level danger or anything. But should she use blood magic then suddenly she can enslave minds and summon nasties as if she were Evil Gandalf(tm).
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
What do you mean, "you guys"?!
:P I didn't even mention Tevinter, and my example has nothing to do with being in a circle and everything to do with why unsupervised mages are dangerous.
Apart from the part where it hamstrings their military dominance.
Plus they're so goddamn bound by their code it leads to stupidity in dealing with the rest of the world. If we're using the Qunari as example of the way to go then I gotta say what the freaking hell, lads? Let's just toss personal freedom and individual choice out the window.
Plus, their leaders have this nasty habit of falling on my daggers. Over and over. For about 20 minutes.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
The problem with it is that any mage who wants blood magic can get it if they're desperate enough; It doesn't require physical resources or lengthy rituals.
I disagree. Keep it civil.
The qunari military is fine. Free saarebas would be more trouble than they're worth. Qunari are actually hella educated in foreign customs, but it is their belief that all the world must eventually submit to the Qun. Which would improve it.
Couple that with Wesley surviving and you could have had a really in-depth, personal look at both sides of the argument.
I really like that Bethany stays legitimate. I can't even say that about either protagonist.
Oh, me too. One good egg in a whole basketful of rotten ones, because she grew up safely away from Kirkwall's evil influence :P
that's it!
you're all going down!
*starts cutting into his hand and speaking to a disembodied voice*
You're part of the reason we can't have nice things :?
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
I think what people are hesitant to accept is that the idea that the current Templar solution is the middle ground. The Qunari are the opposite extreme. You can't give mages more freedom than they currently have because of ye old "Mage in the ass end of nowhere goes Abom without anyone knowing for weeks/longer" issue. A Fereldan Tower situation unchecked could be completely disastrous with even a small number of mages.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
I'd argue that. For example: why circle towers? why not circle villages? where the mages can live with their families and actually have villages of their own? Proper villages. You have phylactries to ensure mages don't run off so why the hell not?
Edit: The less you treat mages like prisoners with a disease the less likely they'll goddamn turn into the thing you're afraid of. No solution will work if the mages are treated like shit, that's as much of a reality as the fact that mages can't be left to wander 100% unsupervised. You can't acknowledge the one without realising the other.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
See: Fereldan Tower scenario.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
So go ahead and have a templar as their travel partner when they go off to visit their family. Make sure that they get rotated every so often so that the templar assigned to them can maintain objectivity.
By the same coin: Make sure that a solid screening process is done for the templars so that they aren't brutal dicks or weak willed or such.
Current status quo doesn't mean that the situation can't shift a little more in the favor of mages.