Contracting an artist

stavesacre

I'm looking to start putting together my own little bar for my house. I homebrew my own beer under my imaginary brewery named "The Dire Badger" and I was looking to have an artist or artists make a label picture for each of my house beers.
I've never worked with an artist before, and I have no idea how these things go.

Is there a proper way to seek out someone online to do the job?
How much is usually charged for work?
Is there any legal hoops to jump through if I wanted to later use the art for bottles if I did go commercial?
I'm not really looking for a "professional" and wouldn't mind having a different artist for each beer type.

Any advice is appreciated.

Zeon

Post an ad on craigslist looking for a freelance artist for a one-off gig. You'll get a bunch of people contacting you, ask for samples of their work, ask for quotes for what you want done, and pick the one you like the most. If you pay them for the work, its yours to do with what you want. Make sure they supply you all the source files as well as files you can take right to the printer of your choice (most likely PDF files these days).

*edit* as for costs, depends entirely on your area. If youre in the middle of nowhere, itll be cheap. If youre in a major city, it will cost a bit more. For 1 graphic, youre probably looking at between 100-500 dollars depending on the experience of the artist and again your location. Obviously if all your labels are fairly similar the price decreases exponentially the more different labels you need (because a lot of the work can be reused).

riz

You've also got the online options like http://forum.deviantart.com/jobs/services/ or probably people on Etsy.

Dark Moon

You'll need to discuss usage when you contract the work initially. I'm not certain how it works for illustrators, but with photographers you won't be able to get the copyright outright (or if you do, most guys will have a baseline rate of $10k+/image to buy full copyright). This means you'll need to either work into the contract all current and possible future uses of the work or retain the illustrator's contact info so you can extend the usage rights for any future further uses you'd like. The latter may be a much cheaper option if there's only a possibility that you'll be using the work for commercial purposes later (though if you hire an amateur they'll probably be so thrilled at getting paid work they may sign over everything but power of attorney to you for a pittance).

stavesacre

Dark Moon wrote: »

You'll need to discuss usage when you contract the work initially. I'm not certain how it works for illustrators, but with photographers you won't be able to get the copyright outright (or if you do, most guys will have a baseline rate of $10k+/image to buy full copyright). This means you'll need to either work into the contract all current and possible future uses of the work or retain the illustrator's contact info so you can extend the usage rights for any future further uses you'd like. The latter may be a much cheaper option if there's only a possibility that you'll be using the work for commercial purposes later (though if you hire an amateur they'll probably be so thrilled at getting paid work they may sign over everything but power of attorney to you for a pittance).

Well I'm not looking to screw anyone over!
I'm looking to have most of this done over the internet since I'll be in Japan very soon for few years, so I am nervous about not being able to get in touch with the artist if I wanted to extend the usage rights in the future.
I'm sure that the pictures will never leave my home bar/tap handles but I like to be prepared for the future anyway.
Are there any other resources aside from Craigslist and DeviantArt forums to check for willing artists that are recommended?

Kate of Lokys

I keep recommending this place, but Elance is a great way to find freelancers and professionals in fields ranging from programming to administration. They actually have a section specifically for label and package design - if you read over some of the jobs posted there, you can get a pretty good feel for how to word an advertisement of your own. Listing jobs on Elance is free; they make their money by taking a cut of whatever you pay the freelancer you hire.

If you have any questions about Elance, feel free to PM me - my guy used to find a fair bit of work there before he got established locally.

Zeon

Dark Moon wrote: »

You'll need to discuss usage when you contract the work initially. I'm not certain how it works for illustrators, but with photographers you won't be able to get the copyright outright (or if you do, most guys will have a baseline rate of $10k+/image to buy full copyright). This means you'll need to either work into the contract all current and possible future uses of the work or retain the illustrator's contact info so you can extend the usage rights for any future further uses you'd like. The latter may be a much cheaper option if there's only a possibility that you'll be using the work for commercial purposes later (though if you hire an amateur they'll probably be so thrilled at getting paid work they may sign over everything but power of attorney to you for a pittance).

Generally for artists it doesnt work that way, or at least, ive never had a contract or job where full ownership wasnt expected or implied. Once you create artwork and hand it over, its theirs. You can keep a copy for your portfolio and use it to advertise yourself, but you cant turn around and resell the same piece to someone else. Photography is kind of different because the same picture can be used in multiple places for multiple purposes. For commercial artwork, it generally wouldnt make sense to sell the same piece to 2 separate companies.

The only time i can think of where it doesnt work like that is if youve got characters youve created yourself and a company is hiring you to have the characters in their ad or something. But even then, the contract youd sign at the outset says the company is free to do whatever they want with the pieces you create, and are free to use them in any medium they want. You continue to hold the rights to the characters themselves but the pieces you created are owned by the company that contracted you.

Unterpreiz

Work for hire-- where you outright buy all rights to an artist/contractor's image is illegal in Canada. As Dark Moon is from Winnipeg, I'm guessing that's why there's a difference in facts, here.

Work for Hire isn't illegal in the US, but it sure isn't implied automatically in any contract either. Work for hire is explicitly outlined in a contract, versus the alternative first or one time use of an image. While it is the norm in terms of most people's expectations-- mostly large businesses that deal with a large volume of illustration work, and NEED work for hire for very specific marketing reasons, the artist can sell you first rights to the image instead, which is good for one time/one run use. You generally pay a significant amount more money to own all rights to the work-- the crucial one with work for hire being authorship. (moral rights may also need to be purchased separately-- this allows you to make significant alterations to the work at a later date)

Now this is a smaller gig, and as such, and if its in the US then you can ask for work for hire in the contract outline and not even expect to pay a WHOLE lot more money. (I know how small-time artists will outbid each other rabidly for jobs )

What you should do is browse deviantart, conceptart.org, maybe even the art forums here and find someone who's style you like. Then send them a private message/email about a commission. Don't be surprised if THEY already have a contract drawn up/ a boilerplate contract they work under-- especially if its someone who catches your eye and may get a lot of commissions. While the advice of posting the job in "help wanted" ads at art communities isn't a bad idea... generally the bidders are going to come to you, and may be more desperate than they are right for the job.

P.S. Don't start a new thread in the Artist Corner forums here! Asking for a commission in a new thread-- very frowned upon!

Zeon

Unterpreiz wrote: »

Work for hire-- where you outright buy all rights to an artist/contractor's image is illegal in Canada. As Dark Moon is from Winnipeg, I'm guessing that's why there's a difference in facts, here.

Work for Hire isn't illegal in the US, but it sure isn't implied automatically in any contract either. Work for hire is explicitly outlined in a contract, versus the alternative first or one time use of an image. While it is the norm in terms of most people's expectations-- mostly large businesses that deal with a large volume of illustration work, and NEED work for hire for very specific marketing reasons, the artist can sell you first rights to the image instead, which is good for one time/one run use. You generally pay a significant amount more money to own all rights to the work-- the crucial one with work for hire being authorship. (moral rights may also need to be purchased separately-- this allows you to make significant alterations to the work at a later date)

Now this is a smaller gig, and as such, and if its in the US then you can ask for work for hire in the contract outline and not even expect to pay a WHOLE lot more money. (I know how small-time artists will outbid each other rabidly for jobs )

What you should do is browse deviantart, conceptart.org, maybe even the art forums here and find someone who's style you like. Then send them a private message/email about a commission. Don't be surprised if THEY already have a contract drawn up/ a boilerplate contract they work under-- especially if its someone who catches your eye and may get a lot of commissions. While the advice of posting the job in "help wanted" ads at art communities isn't a bad idea... generally the bidders are going to come to you, and may be more desperate than they are right for the job.

P.S. Don't start a new thread in the Artist Corner forums here! Asking for a commission in a new thread-- very frowned upon!

This was the fourth hit for "work for hire canada" on google:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=457092

The first 3 hits were fill in the blank contracts for writer, illustrator, and editor respectively.

Work for hire is NOT illegal. I was a graphic designer employed by a large company and ive also done freelance on the side for the past 7 years. This is in ontario, but again, the only exceptions i can think of where ownership is not implied by the client would be a scenario where you are using parts of your creations to advertise for the client (such as characters from a cartoon strip, a real example would be metlifes use of snoopy).

Think of it this way. Microsoft hires you as a freelancer to design their logo. Do you think that after you complete the contract give them the logo, you now own the logo for microsoft? You wouldnt, and that would make no sense. Not many companies would sign a contract to that effect either.

Im not saying you cant have a contract where you keep ownership of the work, its just really not the standard operating procedure in the graphic arts industry. If youre worried about covering your ass, write in the contract that you will be the full owner of any artwork created during the course of the contract while the artist is on the clock for you.

Iruka

Logo/Brand work is actually a bit different than other contracts. No, If you do a logo for a company you aren't renegotiating it every time they use it, because thats the specifics of the task at hand. If you hire an illustrator to make your album cover, though, you cant turn around and make teeshirts unless you already specified thats what you wanted.

Basically, if you need a logo/brand, you are paying for your continued usage of that identity as thats sort of the work by definition. However, if you ask an illustrator to make you a painting to go on your special winter label, you cant necessarily turn around and slap that on other merchandise if its not implied in the contract. Either way, being the most strait forward with the artist about usage is the best way to go about it.

Zeon

I do strictly corporate work so maybe thats where the difference of opinion is coming from. Its still far from "illegal" though.

Unterpreiz

Yeah, sorry-- seems that wording "illegal" is a remnant from a VERY vehement business teacher. (I imagine they rarely given away authorship of the image as a freelance contractor and perhaps began using the phrase to scare students into never accepting such terms.) That being said work-for-hire for a contracted employee is hardly implicit in a basic fee-- you really do need to state it out right, and adjust the cost accordingly.

Some more things for OP to consider:

1. Is the artist going to just design the logo/brand image or are they going to design the whole bottle label?
-- you might want to grab some examples/reference of labels or logos you like to better explain your idea
2. Are they going to be doing some copy writing for the label as well?
-- if they ARE designing the whole label, giving them all the copy up front with some bottle label references can be a good way to get the ball rolling-- the more info to go on, the better a project is likely to turn out
3. Be ready to evaluate a couple sketches, and be ready to give them feedback on roughs so the artist can make changes BEFORE the final
-- its part of the creative process to hone in on a design/image both the artist and "art director" like, this involves 2-3 rounds of back and forth-- be prepared to communicate!

Sounds like a fun project though, good luck!

stavesacre

Very great advice guys, thank you so much.
I have a few months before I'm settled in and can start shopping around. These pointers give me a lot to think about and plan for.