Just watched the daily you linked earlier over the course of the day. As someone just getting back into the game, it was really encouraging. I am not actively trying to get my friends to buy the damn game so I can have some playing partners. Gotta love Day9.
the problem with joe k is that he has no urgency or haste to what he is doing, nor a sense of priorities
something in his base could be under attack and where anyone else, even the greenest of new players would immediately go there and sort shit out, joe will happily finish up slowly rallying his new hatchery to the minerals and putting drones in gas. and that would be fine, if it took half a second the way it does for a faster player, but it takes a good 3-4 seconds.
well put
joe, have you ever been sweating like a neckbeard grinding at the bar after you've finished a match? if not, you're not doing it right.
also i'm challenging joe that's what we're supposeds to do right
honestly, yes. it doesnt help. better to be calm than manic.
that doesnt mean i shouldnt be moving fast.
maybe i need dhal yelling at me over skype. an "Apprentice" type of an arrangement.
So after having watched a bunch of post-Amulet removal games, on pro streams and in tourneys, I think the problems caused by amulet removal could be addressed almost entirely by increasing HT speed. The main difference between Fungals, Emps, and storms now is that the previous mobility granted by warp-in is now negated, and you have a very vulnerable unit that has to sit on the map for 40 seconds, instead of tucked away in an egg or a barracks somewhere. Even after those 40 seconds, it now take longer to get the HT where you need it, and it has no defensive abilities (cloak or burrow). It would also improve the EMP vs. Storm wars if there was a bit more movement parity between the units. What do you guys think?
And also, they move by using pure psychic power. You'd think that'd be faster than walking, right?
the problem with joe k is that he has no urgency or haste to what he is doing, nor a sense of priorities
something in his base could be under attack and where anyone else, even the greenest of new players would immediately go there and sort shit out, joe will happily finish up slowly rallying his new hatchery to the minerals and putting drones in gas. and that would be fine, if it took half a second the way it does for a faster player, but it takes a good 3-4 seconds.
Yes, seriously this. I wouldn't have been quite that harsh, but this is exactly his problem. He needs to move quick, I am not sure how you teach someone that though who isn't learning it on their own. I know what worked for me in real life was getting yelled at until I got it right, while being made fun of.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
Just watched the daily you linked earlier over the course of the day. As someone just getting back into the game, it was really encouraging. I am not actively trying to get my friends to buy the damn game so I can have some playing partners. Gotta love Day9.
I've been so nose-deep into studying different ways to refine my few builds and how to most effectively do this and whatever and what the main weakpoints of my build are and bloo bloo bloo
That Daily had me reaffirm the age old question of 'Is this..you know..fun?'. The answer was no, so I contacted a friend of mine, and we did three 2v2 placement matches, and ended up winning one before he had to head out. I also did a game on 1v1 ladder and lost pretty handily to a 4gater, but instead of being frustrated, I took a moment to assess how he won ("Yeah, my build felt janky that time, and he did a pretty solid 4gate and held my first push like a champion"), took a breath, and washed it out of my mind.
I'm at the state to where watching pros and reading forums and hearing people slam advice has become the norm, while throwing it all out the window and having fun was the exception, and that's a dangerous place to be. No wonder I didn't ladder for six months after release
the problem with joe k is that he has no urgency or haste to what he is doing, nor a sense of priorities
something in his base could be under attack and where anyone else, even the greenest of new players would immediately go there and sort shit out, joe will happily finish up slowly rallying his new hatchery to the minerals and putting drones in gas. and that would be fine, if it took half a second the way it does for a faster player, but it takes a good 3-4 seconds.
Yes, seriously this. I wouldn't have been quite that harsh, but this is exactly his problem. He needs to move quick, I am not sure how you teach someone that though who isn't learning it on their own. I know what worked for me in real life was getting yelled at until I got it right, while being made fun of.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
well, i'm glad that i've moved beyond people yelling at me to make probes and pylons.
right now, the games that i'm winning, i'm controlling the pace of and dictating the flow of, instead of trying to react to whatever is coming. that necessarilly means that i'm scouting more, and trying to make a comp that will beat it. trying to place pressure on my opponent more.
I'm not 13 cutting busting right now, except ZvZ, but that's another story, but if I get my expand up, and my lings scout a weak wall (2 SD's and a techlab), you bet your ass that a banelings nest is going down.
Still not as comfy with Festors as I should be, so I often feel that hydras or mutas (or corrupter) are easier for me in air defense mode. Must work on Infestor Micro.
It's funny, Hydras can be a reactionary unit, but any of the spire must be planned into. Infestation Pit is a pretty much no-brainer as I'm always trying to hit Hive.
Just watched the daily you linked earlier over the course of the day. As someone just getting back into the game, it was really encouraging. I am not actively trying to get my friends to buy the damn game so I can have some playing partners. Gotta love Day9.
I've been so nose-deep into studying different ways to refine my few builds and how to most effectively do this and whatever and what the main weakpoints of my build are and bloo bloo bloo
That Daily had me reaffirm the age old question of 'Is this..you know..fun?'. The answer was no, so I contacted a friend of mine, and we did three 2v2 placement matches, and ended up winning one before he had to head out. I also did a game on 1v1 ladder and lost pretty handily to a 4gater, but instead of being frustrated, I took a moment to assess how he won ("Yeah, my build felt janky that time, and he did a pretty solid 4gate and held my first push like a champion"), took a breath, and washed it out of my mind.
I'm at the state to where watching pros and reading forums and hearing people slam advice has become the norm, while throwing it all out the window and having fun was the exception, and that's a dangerous place to be. No wonder I didn't ladder for six months after release
you really got to get over your ladder problems.... its really easy kami. just hit the button. unknown computer on the other end.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
This is real? Where can I find it? If it is all you promise it to be, I would be very excited to try it!!!!
Also, Joe, have you tried doing the "tapping" exercise Day 9 is always talking about? You know, when you're on one screen - say, looking at your army- you tap through your hotkeys on your macro buildings/queens to check on their progress to make sure you're hitting every production cycle as soon as it is available.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
This is real? Where can I find it? If it is all you promise it to be, I would be very excited to try it!!!!
Also, Joe, have you tried doing the "tapping" exercise Day 9 is always talking about? You know, when you're on one screen - say, looking at your army- you tap through your hotkeys on your macro buildings/queens to check on their progress to make sure you're hitting every production cycle as soon as it is available.
Just search custom maps for 'multitasking trainer'. There's two versions with decent popularity, they're the same except one has an area for spreading creep.
In it you have to:
-Macro up a base like normal
-keep your macro mechanic energy below a certain threshold
-micro a prob on an seperate island away from a zergling. you have to manually control it, waypoints are too slow and you'll die
-Fend off enemy pushes/drops
-get a dropship and retrieve a unit across the map a few times
-Defeat the enemy base within a certain time limit
So you end up having your camera jumping all over the place. Really good practice for when things get stressful in a real game, your apm will skyrocket. You can adjust the difficulty to make it more reasonable to start off with
I highly recommend the multitasking trainer. I've used it heavily between beta 1 and beta 2 to keep sharp, and I use it every now and again just to keep things fresh.
(For reference, normal keeps me at about 150 apm consistently throughout the entire game.)
Kambing on
@TwitchTV, @Youtube: master-level zerg ladder/customs, commentary, and random miscellany.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
This is real? Where can I find it? If it is all you promise it to be, I would be very excited to try it!!!!
Also, Joe, have you tried doing the "tapping" exercise Day 9 is always talking about? You know, when you're on one screen - say, looking at your army- you tap through your hotkeys on your macro buildings/queens to check on their progress to make sure you're hitting every production cycle as soon as it is available.
i'm trying to incorporate that. along with no movement via scrolling.
my main focus is hitting injects right now. i can drone, but i miss too many injects to really overpower the opponent all the time.
So I'm all set to get back in this game and start laddering again with the new season.
3 PvPs, 3 losses. 2 4 gates to start, first one I fucked up and supplyblocked myself at a cruical moment, second one I looked away to build a pylon as we engaged, lost a stalker before I looked back, and thus lost the game.
Then a 2 gate zealot rush that hit right before my stalker, being an idiot I forgot to build a forge for cannons and lost.
So I'm all set to get back in this game and start laddering again with the new season.
3 PvPs, 3 losses. 2 4 gates to start, first one I fucked up and supplyblocked myself at a cruical moment, second one I looked away to build a pylon as we engaged, lost a stalker before I looked back, and thus lost the game.
Then a 2 gate zealot rush that hit right before my stalker, being an idiot I forgot to build a forge for cannons and lost.
Fuck this game.
I mean you can say Fuck the game, I do sometimes as well but all your losses were your fault and you could have easily changed the outcome. That is the beauty of starcraft, you can always improve.
I highly recommend the multitasking trainer. I've used it heavily between beta 1 and beta 2 to keep sharp, and I use it every now and again just to keep things fresh.
(For reference, normal keeps me at about 150 apm consistently throughout the entire game.)
Yikes. I'll have to give it a looksee.
I kindof wish that we could rearrange the HUD. Make it easier to look at certain things, instead of multiple different location.
(and a minimap to your second monitor would be GRAND.)
I mean you can say Fuck the game, I do sometimes as well but all your losses were your fault and you could have easily changed the outcome. That is the beauty of starcraft, you can always improve.
Indubitably.
Doesn't make PvP less stupid.
Doesn't make getting 3 PvPs in a row when I know exactly why I lost each one to a ridiculously simple mistake any less annoying.
Is it wrong that I'm really excited to try this thing out? That totally sounds like something that would really help with my mechanics AND be quite fun.
I mean you can say Fuck the game, I do sometimes as well but all your losses were your fault and you could have easily changed the outcome. That is the beauty of starcraft, you can always improve.
Indubitably.
Doesn't make PvP less stupid.
Doesn't make getting 3 PvPs in a row when I know exactly why I lost each one to a ridiculously simple mistake any less annoying.
Same exact thing happened to me and I get the same way, fuck PvP.
1) Overlords. First overlords should be on the a-move path from his base to yours. Later OLs should go to his possible expansions (that would stop the hidden expansions).
2) You really shouldn't push with roaches without roach speed. It gives the other Z time to make roaches (or lings to defend).
3) If you want to one base roach, I'd suggest a push with roach speed and +1 attack (burrow if you'd like), right when they finish. As you push out, build an expansion. +1 attack is nice because it makes roaches 2-shot lings.
4) especially against lings, you want all your roaches to move in a big clump. This stops the surround, and your roaches will live so much longer.
I know it's too late now but I'd love PvP if warpgates either didn't exist or were further back in the tech tree.
I think I'm going to get one of my sc2 buddies to play some warpgateless PvP tonight.
815165 on
0
VariableMouth CongressStroke Me Lady FameRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
so how about that gsl last night
I went to bed after dimaga's first game, and as I watched it today I realized I heard most of the second in a half asleep state, but I had no idea he won the third and in fact assumed he lost until I read spoilers in here. so happy.
a collosus build time increase. 75->100 or something. maybe a little less.
i think the problem is blizzard doesn't know how it feels about the place of chronoboost. they won't nerf colo build time cuz they don't know if people are committing chronos to them or they think that having the range upgrade is enough.
increase build time, no more deathballs
iowa on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
That seems like it would cause more problems with vulnerability and inability to quickly replenish than it would solve with deathballs.
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I don't see how that would solve the deathball at all. It would simply take slightly longer to get? Its not like the deathball is a time sensitive thing.
No, the problem with the deathball is how good Colossi are compared to everything else in a Protoss army. There is rarely any reason to go anything but Colossus in lategame. While other strategies ARE viable, they just flat out aren't as good and the only real reason to use them over going Colossi is if you don't want to go robo.
Nerf Colossi, buff some other stuff. Not directly maybe.
Dhalphir on
0
3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
That would just cause other problems without solving deathballs, iowa.
I was having this discussion with a friend earlier.
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
I don't think it would screw over p though. it will if people conceive it as doing that, yes.
a collosus nerf will put pressure on players to develop new styles. for instance, one that relies on carriers in some form.
maybe that would just be a carrier death ball. maybe that would mean a carrier harassment fleet then a switch into a solid army. who knows
the point is to change how people play. will protoss players lose a lot at first? only if they fail to adapt and get past their ridiculous notions of their other options being chronically underpowered when they are not
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
iowa on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or templar
Dhalphir on
0
Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or Templar?
Prior to 1.3, Templar were slightly better than Colossi, due to having instant warp-in of storm, but took a lot longer to get to and were still harder to protect.
Now? Templar might still be viable, but they are just flat out worse than Colossi. A less useful tech path, a longer tech path, and a worse unit at the end of it.
Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99Ft5mw_ovw&feature=player_embedded
from the liquid weekly
because this is it
ft. me and my roommate vs. only the best
Just watched the daily you linked earlier over the course of the day. As someone just getting back into the game, it was really encouraging. I am not actively trying to get my friends to buy the damn game so I can have some playing partners. Gotta love Day9.
SCII: Sain.437
honestly, yes. it doesnt help. better to be calm than manic.
that doesnt mean i shouldnt be moving fast.
maybe i need dhal yelling at me over skype. an "Apprentice" type of an arrangement.
edit --
and yes, we'll play. i'll be on tonight again...
Joe's Stream.
He should try using the Multitasking Trainer map
tough as hell, but it really pushes you to learn how to macro up while microing somewhere as well as holding off pushes
after an hour of that a normal game feels like slow motion
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
I've been so nose-deep into studying different ways to refine my few builds and how to most effectively do this and whatever and what the main weakpoints of my build are and bloo bloo bloo
That Daily had me reaffirm the age old question of 'Is this..you know..fun?'. The answer was no, so I contacted a friend of mine, and we did three 2v2 placement matches, and ended up winning one before he had to head out. I also did a game on 1v1 ladder and lost pretty handily to a 4gater, but instead of being frustrated, I took a moment to assess how he won ("Yeah, my build felt janky that time, and he did a pretty solid 4gate and held my first push like a champion"), took a breath, and washed it out of my mind.
I'm at the state to where watching pros and reading forums and hearing people slam advice has become the norm, while throwing it all out the window and having fun was the exception, and that's a dangerous place to be. No wonder I didn't ladder for six months after release
well, i'm glad that i've moved beyond people yelling at me to make probes and pylons.
right now, the games that i'm winning, i'm controlling the pace of and dictating the flow of, instead of trying to react to whatever is coming. that necessarilly means that i'm scouting more, and trying to make a comp that will beat it. trying to place pressure on my opponent more.
I'm not 13 cutting busting right now, except ZvZ, but that's another story, but if I get my expand up, and my lings scout a weak wall (2 SD's and a techlab), you bet your ass that a banelings nest is going down.
Still not as comfy with Festors as I should be, so I often feel that hydras or mutas (or corrupter) are easier for me in air defense mode. Must work on Infestor Micro.
It's funny, Hydras can be a reactionary unit, but any of the spire must be planned into. Infestation Pit is a pretty much no-brainer as I'm always trying to hit Hive.
Joe's Stream.
you really got to get over your ladder problems.... its really easy kami. just hit the button. unknown computer on the other end.
Joe's Stream.
This is real? Where can I find it? If it is all you promise it to be, I would be very excited to try it!!!!
Also, Joe, have you tried doing the "tapping" exercise Day 9 is always talking about? You know, when you're on one screen - say, looking at your army- you tap through your hotkeys on your macro buildings/queens to check on their progress to make sure you're hitting every production cycle as soon as it is available.
Just search custom maps for 'multitasking trainer'. There's two versions with decent popularity, they're the same except one has an area for spreading creep.
In it you have to:
-Macro up a base like normal
-keep your macro mechanic energy below a certain threshold
-micro a prob on an seperate island away from a zergling. you have to manually control it, waypoints are too slow and you'll die
-Fend off enemy pushes/drops
-get a dropship and retrieve a unit across the map a few times
-Defeat the enemy base within a certain time limit
So you end up having your camera jumping all over the place. Really good practice for when things get stressful in a real game, your apm will skyrocket. You can adjust the difficulty to make it more reasonable to start off with
PSN: Robo_Wizard1
(For reference, normal keeps me at about 150 apm consistently throughout the entire game.)
i'm trying to incorporate that. along with no movement via scrolling.
my main focus is hitting injects right now. i can drone, but i miss too many injects to really overpower the opponent all the time.
Joe's Stream.
3 PvPs, 3 losses. 2 4 gates to start, first one I fucked up and supplyblocked myself at a cruical moment, second one I looked away to build a pylon as we engaged, lost a stalker before I looked back, and thus lost the game.
Then a 2 gate zealot rush that hit right before my stalker, being an idiot I forgot to build a forge for cannons and lost.
Fuck this game.
I mean you can say Fuck the game, I do sometimes as well but all your losses were your fault and you could have easily changed the outcome. That is the beauty of starcraft, you can always improve.
Yikes. I'll have to give it a looksee.
I kindof wish that we could rearrange the HUD. Make it easier to look at certain things, instead of multiple different location.
(and a minimap to your second monitor would be GRAND.)
Joe's Stream.
you keep on fucking that chicken
Indubitably.
Doesn't make PvP less stupid.
Doesn't make getting 3 PvPs in a row when I know exactly why I lost each one to a ridiculously simple mistake any less annoying.
Same exact thing happened to me and I get the same way, fuck PvP.
1) Overlords. First overlords should be on the a-move path from his base to yours. Later OLs should go to his possible expansions (that would stop the hidden expansions).
2) You really shouldn't push with roaches without roach speed. It gives the other Z time to make roaches (or lings to defend).
3) If you want to one base roach, I'd suggest a push with roach speed and +1 attack (burrow if you'd like), right when they finish. As you push out, build an expansion. +1 attack is nice because it makes roaches 2-shot lings.
4) especially against lings, you want all your roaches to move in a big clump. This stops the surround, and your roaches will live so much longer.
5) Watch day9's zvz opening daily to get an idea of a good 1 base roach build order: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4650275/
I think I'm going to get one of my sc2 buddies to play some warpgateless PvP tonight.
I'm going to ruin my sleep schedule trying to watch them but who caaarresss
a collosus build time increase. 75->100 or something. maybe a little less.
i think the problem is blizzard doesn't know how it feels about the place of chronoboost. they won't nerf colo build time cuz they don't know if people are committing chronos to them or they think that having the range upgrade is enough.
increase build time, no more deathballs
No, the problem with the deathball is how good Colossi are compared to everything else in a Protoss army. There is rarely any reason to go anything but Colossus in lategame. While other strategies ARE viable, they just flat out aren't as good and the only real reason to use them over going Colossi is if you don't want to go robo.
Nerf Colossi, buff some other stuff. Not directly maybe.
I was having this discussion with a friend earlier.
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
I don't think it would screw over p though. it will if people conceive it as doing that, yes.
a collosus nerf will put pressure on players to develop new styles. for instance, one that relies on carriers in some form.
maybe that would just be a carrier death ball. maybe that would mean a carrier harassment fleet then a switch into a solid army. who knows
the point is to change how people play. will protoss players lose a lot at first? only if they fail to adapt and get past their ridiculous notions of their other options being chronically underpowered when they are not
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or templar
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or Templar?
Prior to 1.3, Templar were slightly better than Colossi, due to having instant warp-in of storm, but took a lot longer to get to and were still harder to protect.
Now? Templar might still be viable, but they are just flat out worse than Colossi. A less useful tech path, a longer tech path, and a worse unit at the end of it.
Not sure why I lost, all the guides I have read say that I should be safe to expand.
This is so frustrating, I don't know how to scout that the terran always has that kind of shit at their ramp before they expand.