Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I think I'm developing a game sense
I just got Forge/Gateway rushed on Tal'darim Altar. I would have fallen to it, but the guy sent out a second probe, which I saw with my own scouting probe and made me suspicious enough (before scouting him) to start chronoing zealots.
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or Templar?
Prior to 1.3, Templar were slightly better than Colossi, due to having instant warp-in of storm, but took a lot longer to get to and were still harder to protect.
Now? Templar might still be viable, but they are just flat out worse than Colossi. A less useful tech path, a longer tech path, and a worse unit at the end of it.
someone on TL suggested a walking speed increase for templar and i can support that. if they were easier to micro away from EMPs i think people would use them more. templar are literally just a frustrating unit to use. like the dragoon of sc2. amulet should have been removed though.
and you aren't at all considering the air tech route. and i know why; because you are determined to whine about how it's too weak, despite that its viability has been shown. remember that game where you argued the guy only won because he stopped building carriers?
I do think it's a bit goofy that Templar move so slowly and get outranged by EMPs.
I've also seen them countered with neural parasite -> storming the other templars. That was cool.
kedinik on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Reference: I haven't played P since September, I've been T the last ~5 months.
There are very few lategame P comps that are viable and don't involve Colossus, and they mostly hinge on your opponents doing something like Terran Mech (which you stop with Immortals and Blink Stalkers).
Carriers aren't good enough to build a strategy around, any more than Battlecruisers are. They're fine as a finishing blow 25 minutes into the game when you're on 8 gas, but they just don't work in mid game.
I'm all for seeing more comps out of Protoss, but I think their endgame would be too weak if you nerfed Colossus without upgrading some other core unit.
Right now Colossus are a necessary, not potentially useful, unit in almost every Protoss build.
EDIT: To clarify the last sentence, I don't think that a T3 unit should be necessary in every build. For example: Thors and Ultralisks are both great, but they are by no means necessary in every Terran or Zerg build. Colossus are the only T3 unit that Protoss have to get almost all the time (except for those very rare mass gateway templar builds, which only work sometimes and are much harder to pull off with potentially less reward).
If carriers could move while attacking they would be good. But as it stands now you can't attack with carriers without them dying to a good player. They take so long to start attacking after stopping that you can't harass with them. Even if they moved slower while attacking, SOME movement while attacking so they can be micro'd and they'd be used. Right now they suck, it's true. The only reason San did so well with them is because they had, get this, collossus with them to take out the ground-air and stalkers for the air, and the carriers mass DPS while motionless filled in the gaps.
Carriers aren't good enough to build a strategy around, any more than Battlecruisers are. They're fine as a finishing blow 25 minutes into the game when you're on 8 gas, but they just don't work in mid game.
but just a few days ago we watched and commented on a game where they were used to great success off of 3 bases what part of this dont you understand
iowa on
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Not sure why I lost, all the guides I have read say that I should be safe to expand.
This is so frustrating, I don't know how to scout that the terran always has that kind of shit at their ramp before they expand.
Okay, so I watched this from your POV only.
When you poked up with your Z/S, you saw a barracks with researching lab, four marines, and three marauders.
I guarantee you that no guide in the world says that's a safe time to expand--that means that you have two-three barracks worth of units being made behind that wall. Your response should have been heavy unit production.
'Safe' times to expand are when you poke up and see bunkers or a small number of marines only. That indicates either a) a FE or b) heavy tech going on behind, like banshees.
Carriers aren't good enough to build a strategy around, any more than Battlecruisers are. They're fine as a finishing blow 25 minutes into the game when you're on 8 gas, but they just don't work in mid game.
but just a few days ago we watched and commented on a game where they were used to great success off of 3 bases what part of this dont you understand
I did not see that game, or read the comments on it apparently.
Explain it real quick? Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
If carriers could move while attacking they would be good...
They can.
You can basically trade interceptors efficiently with mass hydras by microing around terrain.
And if they counter with corruptors you can abuse the fact that they dumped so much money into weak-for-their-cost-and-now-totally-useless air to air units.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
well, i'm glad that i've moved beyond people yelling at me to make probes and pylons.
right now, the games that i'm winning, i'm controlling the pace of and dictating the flow of, instead of trying to react to whatever is coming. that necessarilly means that i'm scouting more, and trying to make a comp that will beat it. trying to place pressure on my opponent more.
I'm not 13 cutting busting right now, except ZvZ, but that's another story, but if I get my expand up, and my lings scout a weak wall (2 SD's and a techlab), you bet your ass that a banelings nest is going down.
Still not as comfy with Festors as I should be, so I often feel that hydras or mutas (or corrupter) are easier for me in air defense mode. Must work on Infestor Micro.
It's funny, Hydras can be a reactionary unit, but any of the spire must be planned into. Infestation Pit is a pretty much no-brainer as I'm always trying to hit Hive.
In our games I think you absolutely had control of the game, but I just made more units than you. I was completely un-prepared for your mutas and you halved my scv count, but I had enough stuff to just fend it off an go kill you. I think you might be trying to improve the hard way (scouting, composition, micro etc) when probably the simplest way is to just get good at making more mans than the other guy.
Not sure why I lost, all the guides I have read say that I should be safe to expand.
This is so frustrating, I don't know how to scout that the terran always has that kind of shit at their ramp before they expand.
Okay, so I watched this from your POV only.
When you poked up with your Z/S, you saw a barracks with researching lab, four marines, and three marauders.
I guarantee you that no guide in the world says that's a safe time to expand--that means that you have two-three barracks worth of units being made behind that wall. Your response should have been heavy unit production.
'Safe' times to expand are when you poke up and see bunkers or a small number of marines only. That indicates either a) a FE or b) heavy tech going on behind, like banshees.
I haven't watched the replay but what part of that meant he for sure wasn't FE? I looked at his units and saw that he had 2 marauders and some marines I think, 3 rax which is what I had. I could have had the same number of units and I was fast expanding as well.
Fizban140 on
0
MaratastikJust call me Mara, please!Registered Userregular
I don't think it would screw over p though. it will if people conceive it as doing that, yes.
a collosus nerf will put pressure on players to develop new styles. for instance, one that relies on carriers in some form.
maybe that would just be a carrier death ball. maybe that would mean a carrier harassment fleet then a switch into a solid army. who knows
the point is to change how people play. will protoss players lose a lot at first? only if they fail to adapt and get past their ridiculous notions of their other options being chronically underpowered when they are not
I'm sorry Iowa but it's seems like you're assuming no protoss players ever try strategies that don't revolve around colossi. That's just not true. Sure in games that matter, tournament games, you don't see anything but, because it is the most viable strategy in almost all situations. But plenty of good protoss players have tried things other than colossi. I've tried things other than colossi. I'm sorry, but everytime you post about protoss only making colossi, or being uncreative, it's like you assume that every protoss player ever has made their first colossi and said to themselves, "this unit is pretty good, I'll never bother making anything else ever."
Look, I want to see colossi nerfed as much as the next guy, but to just blatantly ignore the balance effect it would have and merely remark "it will just force protoss to adapt" reeks of someone who has not played much protoss and assumes all protoss players have never tried any other strategy other than going colossi. It would be the same as saying we should nerf terran MMM because "that's all terran players make and it would force them to develop other strategies." And I'm sure you recognize that last statement as being an immensely stupid idea.
Maratastik on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The colossus is probably too strong, but Protoss is balanced around having it. If you mess with it you risk really screwing over P, unless you change other things at the same time.
to reword my point:
this is only the sentiment held by most protoss players. the race isn't balanced around the collosus. the fears you guys have over cloaked banshees are only perceived and are disproportionate and dont force you to go robo first.
Why don't you explain to me how Protoss deals with 120-130food + of marauder/marine/medivac without Colossus or Templar?
Prior to 1.3, Templar were slightly better than Colossi, due to having instant warp-in of storm, but took a lot longer to get to and were still harder to protect.
Now? Templar might still be viable, but they are just flat out worse than Colossi. A less useful tech path, a longer tech path, and a worse unit at the end of it.
someone on TL suggested a walking speed increase for templar and i can support that. if they were easier to micro away from EMPs i think people would use them more. templar are literally just a frustrating unit to use. like the dragoon of sc2. amulet should have been removed though.
and you aren't at all considering the air tech route. and i know why; because you are determined to whine about how it's too weak, despite that its viability has been shown. remember that game where you argued the guy only won because he stopped building carriers?
he could have forced the corrupters just as easily with colossi and then not had to transition at all.
Dhalphir on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
well, i'm glad that i've moved beyond people yelling at me to make probes and pylons.
right now, the games that i'm winning, i'm controlling the pace of and dictating the flow of, instead of trying to react to whatever is coming. that necessarilly means that i'm scouting more, and trying to make a comp that will beat it. trying to place pressure on my opponent more.
I'm not 13 cutting busting right now, except ZvZ, but that's another story, but if I get my expand up, and my lings scout a weak wall (2 SD's and a techlab), you bet your ass that a banelings nest is going down.
Still not as comfy with Festors as I should be, so I often feel that hydras or mutas (or corrupter) are easier for me in air defense mode. Must work on Infestor Micro.
It's funny, Hydras can be a reactionary unit, but any of the spire must be planned into. Infestation Pit is a pretty much no-brainer as I'm always trying to hit Hive.
In our games I think you absolutely had control of the game, but I just made more units than you. I was completely un-prepared for your mutas and you halved my scv count, but I had enough stuff to just fend it off an go kill you. I think you might be trying to improve the hard way (scouting, composition, micro etc) when probably the simplest way is to just get good at making more mans than the other guy.
even the other bronze guys know that joe is doing it all wrong
success
Dhalphir on
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Carriers aren't good enough to build a strategy around, any more than Battlecruisers are. They're fine as a finishing blow 25 minutes into the game when you're on 8 gas, but they just don't work in mid game.
but just a few days ago we watched and commented on a game where they were used to great success off of 3 bases what part of this dont you understand
I did not see that game, or read the comments on it apparently.
Explain it real quick? Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
Carriers were not the centerpiece of that strategy. As I said the Collossus/Stalker deathball was the centerpiece.
there were no collosus in that game you dont know what youre talking about
anyone remember the game ill have to check through the last thread i guess
Must be thinking of a different game, sorry.
@ kedinik I see what my issue was if you start moving while the interceptors are coming out they stop coming out but they stay out until they are out of range. That changes EVERYTHING
Not sure why I lost, all the guides I have read say that I should be safe to expand.
This is so frustrating, I don't know how to scout that the terran always has that kind of shit at their ramp before they expand.
Okay, so I watched this from your POV only.
When you poked up with your Z/S, you saw a barracks with researching lab, four marines, and three marauders.
I guarantee you that no guide in the world says that's a safe time to expand--that means that you have two-three barracks worth of units being made behind that wall. Your response should have been heavy unit production.
'Safe' times to expand are when you poke up and see bunkers or a small number of marines only. That indicates either a) a FE or b) heavy tech going on behind, like banshees.
I haven't watched the replay but what part of that meant he for sure wasn't FE? I looked at his units and saw that he had 2 marauders and some marines I think, 3 rax which is what I had. I could have had the same number of units and I was fast expanding as well.
FE is when you do it right away, before 25 food and sometimes as early as 15. If you do a FE as Terran, you often won't take a gas because you need money for the CC. Yet you saw a lot of gas being consumed: A tech lab (50), something researching (50 or 100), at least a couple of marauders (another 50, and possibly a second tech lab). There were actually 4 marines and 2 marauders. You're not going to know whether or not he's constructing a normally timed expansion, but the tells that he wants to be aggressive are:
- No bunker to defend his teching
- More than one marauder
- Wall tech lab is researching (usually stim or conc)
EDIT: Signs that he would be teching/trying to expand would be
- Scouted double gas
- Marines in bunker up ramp
- No visible gas units (marauders)
Also, by the way, I know that Backwater Gulch is better than it was, but it still wouldn't hurt to downvote it as Protoss. There's no way you can protect the natural without completely walling off one path, and that leaves the other approach open to drops/rock-busting.
Not sure why I lost, all the guides I have read say that I should be safe to expand.
This is so frustrating, I don't know how to scout that the terran always has that kind of shit at their ramp before they expand.
Okay, so I watched this from your POV only.
When you poked up with your Z/S, you saw a barracks with researching lab, four marines, and three marauders.
I guarantee you that no guide in the world says that's a safe time to expand--that means that you have two-three barracks worth of units being made behind that wall. Your response should have been heavy unit production.
'Safe' times to expand are when you poke up and see bunkers or a small number of marines only. That indicates either a) a FE or b) heavy tech going on behind, like banshees.
I haven't watched the replay but what part of that meant he for sure wasn't FE? I looked at his units and saw that he had 2 marauders and some marines I think, 3 rax which is what I had. I could have had the same number of units and I was fast expanding as well.
FE is when you do it right away, before 25 food and sometimes as early as 15. If you do a FE as Terran, you often won't take a gas because you need money for the CC. Yet you saw a lot of gas being consumed: A tech lab (50), something researching (50 or 100), at least a couple of marauders (another 50, and possibly a second tech lab). There were actually 4 marines and 2 marauders. You're not going to know whether or not he's constructing a normally timed expansion, but the tells that he wants to be aggressive are:
- No bunker to defend his teching
- More than one marauder
- Wall tech lab is researching (usually stim or conc)
EDIT: Signs that he would be teching/trying to expand would be
- Scouted double gas
- Marines in bunker up ramp
- No visible gas units (marauders)
Also, by the way, I know that Backwater Gulch is better than it was, but it still wouldn't hurt to downvote it as Protoss. There's no way you can protect the natural without completely walling off one path, and that leaves the other approach open to drops/rock-busting.
Tux Backwater Gulch has the most easily defended natural on any map ever. You can run from one choke to the other in your natural four times over before they can do it on attack. Its a brilliant map with that ramp change. Keep Slag Pit and Delta downvoted and take Scrap down instead of Gulch.
Its also one of the most hilarious to attack Zerg on. Send your early attack through the narrower of the two chokes and lol as they can't hurt you at all with speedlings, and then you can just sidle up the ramp to their main and forcefield it behind you.
Here's a replay to illustrate.
Dhalphir on
0
tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
You just explained it.
this is like saying dark templar are far too easy to counter because all you need is one cheap detector therefore you shouldn't use dark templar.
Whatever. San made five or six carriers that were largely ineffective at offense except for denying the gold once (and didn't stop Sen from taking four bases). Sen's speedlings repeatedly shut down San's third even with carriers and stalkers there. Once he transitioned to air units, one mass of corruptors plowed through five carriers in about eight volleys. Sen lost because of his late-game decision making, and the carrier usage was more interesting because of their use as defensive emplacements than what they actually ended up killing. All of San's late game was oriented around blink stalkers.
Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
You just explained it.
this is like saying dark templar are far too easy to counter because all you need is one cheap detector therefore you shouldn't use dark templar.
Whatever. San made five or six carriers that were largely ineffective at offense except for denying the gold once (and didn't stop Sen from taking four bases). Sen's speedlings repeatedly shut down San's third even with carriers and stalkers there. Once he transitioned to air units, one mass of corruptors plowed through five carriers in about eight volleys. Sen lost because of his late-game decision making, and the carrier usage was more interesting because of their use as defensive emplacements than what they actually ended up killing. All of San's late game was oriented around blink stalkers.
the threat of carriers kept sen from taking the gold for much longer than he otherwise would have. they may have only killed the base once but they kept it down much longer through their presence.
carriers forced an overreaction of corruptors, even more than he would ever have been able to morph into brolords.
if you think that because a unit gets hard countered and he switches out of them then they suck then you don't understand this game at all.
Artosis joined some team I have never heard of. Who is sixjax?
I don't think they're too good.
Not bad players or anything, but I don't think their players have really gotten any results.
kedinik on
I made a game! Hotline Maui. Requires mouse and keyboard.
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Played like crap, won with mass 3/3 marines + Thors because my opponent was horribad, placed into Plat.
EDIT: My opponent was good mannered about it though. He was just trying zerg so he was doing some weird a few banelings/mass roach which upgraded marine/Thor tears through (I think he had no upgrades). When my almost maxed army of like 6 Thors, 8 Medivacs, and ~55 3/3 Marines rolled in and start wrecking everything he typed out
WTF
THE MARINES
I was like "oh yeah 3/3 stimmed Marines actually kill everything ever."
Posts
I just got Forge/Gateway rushed on Tal'darim Altar. I would have fallen to it, but the guy sent out a second probe, which I saw with my own scouting probe and made me suspicious enough (before scouting him) to start chronoing zealots.
someone on TL suggested a walking speed increase for templar and i can support that. if they were easier to micro away from EMPs i think people would use them more. templar are literally just a frustrating unit to use. like the dragoon of sc2. amulet should have been removed though.
and you aren't at all considering the air tech route. and i know why; because you are determined to whine about how it's too weak, despite that its viability has been shown. remember that game where you argued the guy only won because he stopped building carriers?
I've also seen them countered with neural parasite -> storming the other templars. That was cool.
There are very few lategame P comps that are viable and don't involve Colossus, and they mostly hinge on your opponents doing something like Terran Mech (which you stop with Immortals and Blink Stalkers).
Carriers aren't good enough to build a strategy around, any more than Battlecruisers are. They're fine as a finishing blow 25 minutes into the game when you're on 8 gas, but they just don't work in mid game.
I'm all for seeing more comps out of Protoss, but I think their endgame would be too weak if you nerfed Colossus without upgrading some other core unit.
Right now Colossus are a necessary, not potentially useful, unit in almost every Protoss build.
EDIT: To clarify the last sentence, I don't think that a T3 unit should be necessary in every build. For example: Thors and Ultralisks are both great, but they are by no means necessary in every Terran or Zerg build. Colossus are the only T3 unit that Protoss have to get almost all the time (except for those very rare mass gateway templar builds, which only work sometimes and are much harder to pull off with potentially less reward).
but just a few days ago we watched and commented on a game where they were used to great success off of 3 bases what part of this dont you understand
Okay, so I watched this from your POV only.
When you poked up with your Z/S, you saw a barracks with researching lab, four marines, and three marauders.
I guarantee you that no guide in the world says that's a safe time to expand--that means that you have two-three barracks worth of units being made behind that wall. Your response should have been heavy unit production.
'Safe' times to expand are when you poke up and see bunkers or a small number of marines only. That indicates either a) a FE or b) heavy tech going on behind, like banshees.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
I did not see that game, or read the comments on it apparently.
Explain it real quick? Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
They can.
You can basically trade interceptors efficiently with mass hydras by microing around terrain.
And if they counter with corruptors you can abuse the fact that they dumped so much money into weak-for-their-cost-and-now-totally-useless air to air units.
In our games I think you absolutely had control of the game, but I just made more units than you. I was completely un-prepared for your mutas and you halved my scv count, but I had enough stuff to just fend it off an go kill you. I think you might be trying to improve the hard way (scouting, composition, micro etc) when probably the simplest way is to just get good at making more mans than the other guy.
I'M READY.
there were no collosus in that game you dont know what youre talking about
anyone remember the game ill have to check through the last thread i guess
I'm sorry Iowa but it's seems like you're assuming no protoss players ever try strategies that don't revolve around colossi. That's just not true. Sure in games that matter, tournament games, you don't see anything but, because it is the most viable strategy in almost all situations. But plenty of good protoss players have tried things other than colossi. I've tried things other than colossi. I'm sorry, but everytime you post about protoss only making colossi, or being uncreative, it's like you assume that every protoss player ever has made their first colossi and said to themselves, "this unit is pretty good, I'll never bother making anything else ever."
Look, I want to see colossi nerfed as much as the next guy, but to just blatantly ignore the balance effect it would have and merely remark "it will just force protoss to adapt" reeks of someone who has not played much protoss and assumes all protoss players have never tried any other strategy other than going colossi. It would be the same as saying we should nerf terran MMM because "that's all terran players make and it would force them to develop other strategies." And I'm sure you recognize that last statement as being an immensely stupid idea.
he could have forced the corrupters just as easily with colossi and then not had to transition at all.
even the other bronze guys know that joe is doing it all wrong
success
You just explained it.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
that may be true dhal but the collosus wouldnt have had the mobility to keep that gold base down for so long, which was absolutely game changing.
carriers are good because of their mobility they are not meant to be deathball'd
this is like saying dark templar are far too easy to counter because all you need is one cheap detector therefore you shouldn't use dark templar.
and i need to play
maaaan
but i'm bad at air units
Must be thinking of a different game, sorry.
@ kedinik I see what my issue was if you start moving while the interceptors are coming out they stop coming out but they stay out until they are out of range. That changes EVERYTHING
FE is when you do it right away, before 25 food and sometimes as early as 15. If you do a FE as Terran, you often won't take a gas because you need money for the CC. Yet you saw a lot of gas being consumed: A tech lab (50), something researching (50 or 100), at least a couple of marauders (another 50, and possibly a second tech lab). There were actually 4 marines and 2 marauders. You're not going to know whether or not he's constructing a normally timed expansion, but the tells that he wants to be aggressive are:
- No bunker to defend his teching
- More than one marauder
- Wall tech lab is researching (usually stim or conc)
EDIT: Signs that he would be teching/trying to expand would be
- Scouted double gas
- Marines in bunker up ramp
- No visible gas units (marauders)
Also, by the way, I know that Backwater Gulch is better than it was, but it still wouldn't hurt to downvote it as Protoss. There's no way you can protect the natural without completely walling off one path, and that leaves the other approach open to drops/rock-busting.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
SEA just got patch 1.31 (minor fixes) and NA hasnt got it yet. can't sign on.
bad luck about your loss streak since promotion
Tux Backwater Gulch has the most easily defended natural on any map ever. You can run from one choke to the other in your natural four times over before they can do it on attack. Its a brilliant map with that ramp change. Keep Slag Pit and Delta downvoted and take Scrap down instead of Gulch.
Its also one of the most hilarious to attack Zerg on. Send your early attack through the narrower of the two chokes and lol as they can't hurt you at all with speedlings, and then you can just sidle up the ramp to their main and forcefield it behind you.
Here's a replay to illustrate.
Whatever. San made five or six carriers that were largely ineffective at offense except for denying the gold once (and didn't stop Sen from taking four bases). Sen's speedlings repeatedly shut down San's third even with carriers and stalkers there. Once he transitioned to air units, one mass of corruptors plowed through five carriers in about eight volleys. Sen lost because of his late-game decision making, and the carrier usage was more interesting because of their use as defensive emplacements than what they actually ended up killing. All of San's late game was oriented around blink stalkers.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Oh wow, Artosis joined Sixjax. That is cool. Sixjax was previously known as NrG; they have been one of NA's top teams for quite awhile.
something cool
the threat of carriers kept sen from taking the gold for much longer than he otherwise would have. they may have only killed the base once but they kept it down much longer through their presence.
carriers forced an overreaction of corruptors, even more than he would ever have been able to morph into brolords.
if you think that because a unit gets hard countered and he switches out of them then they suck then you don't understand this game at all.
I don't think they're too good.
Not bad players or anything, but I don't think their players have really gotten any results.
EDIT: My opponent was good mannered about it though. He was just trying zerg so he was doing some weird a few banelings/mass roach which upgraded marine/Thor tears through (I think he had no upgrades). When my almost maxed army of like 6 Thors, 8 Medivacs, and ~55 3/3 Marines rolled in and start wrecking everything he typed out
WTF
THE MARINES
I was like "oh yeah 3/3 stimmed Marines actually kill everything ever."