Artosis joined some team I have never heard of. Who is sixjax?
I don't think they're too good.
Not bad players or anything, but I don't think their players have really gotten any results.
NrG consistently does well in team leagues, and just won the CEVO team league with an extremely good record (something like 14-1, their only loss to EG 3-2). Vibe made it to the quarterfinals of one of the TLOpens and dde consistently places well in tournaments. They aren't the best of the best, but all of them are very solid players.
Protoss of Penny arcade!
I present to you, a PvP scenario.
I am going 4 gate, and scout that my opponent is himself positioning for a 4gate.
At this point, I dont attack, and pull back adding probes/gas (going for a defensive 4 warp gate) and build a robo to get collosus.
Everything is super standard at this point right?
Now, with my observer, I scout a twilight council and realize my opponent is getting blink. My collosus den has just finished.
What is your standard response here?
I've been having a lot of success with slowly laying off the collosus production (getting 2 max, no range) and then grabbing quick chargelots. The chargelots seem to do a great job of counteracting my opponents blink advantage, whilst helping to protect my collosus.
What I want to know is whether you guys think this is efficient or not, or whether there is a much better solution what I've been doing.
Sceptre on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Australia has easter and one of our own public holidays on the same weekend. 5 day weekend booyeah
Ok, I know that this is only silver level play, but I think I show great promise as a rising silver!
I'm the zerg. Had a few times where I did a good job of barely making units in time to stop his push (a little lucky, a little scouting). I saw when it was safe to expand and did so, and the penultimate push out I saw that yes, my army was going to die, but fuck it so was his economy. I didn't realise during the game how WELL I obliterated his ability to do...well anything...but watching the replay made me giggle.
tl;dr Silver beats Gold, not perfect but he's playing zerg, let's cheer him on!
Also, I know I floated minerals, missed some injects, and went WAY too long with no drones in my fourth gas, but again I think overall I'm starting to catch on to what to make when.
ImthebOHGODBEES on
Do you, in fact, have any builds in this shop at all?
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Hmm.
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
3clipse I literally just had the exact same game except in gold division. My opponent, however, was not as nice as yours was. Instead of ending the game he decided he was going to keep planting hatches around the map after I had won. It was glorious chasing him around for over 20 minutes. He eventually got tired of it and just quit, but still, meh. It was a game I did not deserve to win really.
skibo8826 on
GT: mashbaugh67
SCII: Sain.437
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
I felt kinda bad because the guy was just learning zerg and as badly as I executed it, the fast 3/3 marine/mass thor build is designed to crush the standard ling/bling/muta comp that Zergs go
When he went Roach it was like signing his own death warrant.
3cl1ps3 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
Protoss of Penny arcade!
I present to you, a PvP scenario.
I am going 4 gate, and scout that my opponent is himself positioning for a 4gate.
At this point, I dont attack, and pull back adding probes/gas (going for a defensive 4 warp gate) and build a robo to get collosus.
Everything is super standard at this point right?
Now, with my observer, I scout a twilight council and realize my opponent is getting blink. My collosus den has just finished.
What is your standard response here?
I've been having a lot of success with slowly laying off the collosus production (getting 2 max, no range) and then grabbing quick chargelots. The chargelots seem to do a great job of counteracting my opponents blink advantage, whilst helping to protect my collosus.
What I want to know is whether you guys think this is efficient or not, or whether there is a much better solution what I've been doing.
To be honest, I usually just add a forge and start +1 weapons, while favouring stalkers over colossi (still producing them where I can but chronoing probes instead. and using the excess minerals to take an expansion. I have a couple replays of this I can show you when I get home.
Usually what ends up happening is that they blink in to kill my colossi and while they're doing so my own stalkers rip them to pieces.
Dhalphir on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
Carriers seem far too easy to counter to be that viable. Like, Vikings and Corruptors fuck them up.
You just explained it.
this is like saying dark templar are far too easy to counter because all you need is one cheap detector therefore you shouldn't use dark templar.
Whatever. San made five or six carriers that were largely ineffective at offense except for denying the gold once (and didn't stop Sen from taking four bases). Sen's speedlings repeatedly shut down San's third even with carriers and stalkers there. Once he transitioned to air units, one mass of corruptors plowed through five carriers in about eight volleys. Sen lost because of his late-game decision making, and the carrier usage was more interesting because of their use as defensive emplacements than what they actually ended up killing. All of San's late game was oriented around blink stalkers.
the threat of carriers kept sen from taking the gold for much longer than he otherwise would have. they may have only killed the base once but they kept it down much longer through their presence.
carriers forced an overreaction of corruptors, even more than he would ever have been able to morph into brolords.
if you think that because a unit gets hard countered and he switches out of them then they suck then you don't understand this game at all.
Watch the game again and see when Sen plants his fourth and gold. It's immediately after he sees the first two carriers and (inexplicably) doesn't just kill the first one with his ten mutas. He had NO knowledge of the fleet beacon or carriers prior to his harassment attack. In the face of 'threat of carriers', he double-expanded.
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
It is so delicious.
Is there a trick to Raven/Banshee/x builds besides building the actual units, dropping the PDD in a good spot and hoping the Protoss doesn't respond perfectly?
Blink is an ability that I haven't really wrapped my head around yet. I can see the value in being able to send damaged stalkers to the back and doing sneaky blinks into bases on some maps, but I don't ever think "oh he's getting that unit, I should get blink stalkers to counter that.". Can anyone give me some examples of where I should be using it?
Blink is an ability that I haven't really wrapped my head around yet. I can see the value in being able to send damaged stalkers to the back and doing sneaky blinks into bases on some maps, but I don't ever think "oh he's getting that unit, I should get blink stalkers to counter that.". Can anyone give me some examples of where I should be using it?
blink stalkers are super gosu in terms of being mobile
its an instance where protoss can have map control because of the threat of stalker hit squads
it also allows you to defend better against drop play, because you can snipe the drops before they happen or ensure that a unit will die a painful death
it also prolongs the value of your stalkers, as long as you are good at ze blinks
this is all pretty general though and you asked for some specifics so welp
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
It is so delicious.
Is there a trick to Raven/Banshee/x builds besides building the actual units, dropping the PDD in a good spot and hoping the Protoss doesn't respond perfectly?
Well the point of that build is that Thors do a ton of damage, and can one shot Observers, so you use Thor/Raven to snipe Observers while PDDs shut down Stalkers or Phoenixes. Then the cloaked Banshees can wreak havoc.
All that costs a lot of gas so you put some Marines in there; they're also useful for killing zealots that go after your Thors.
EDIT: To further expand upon it, it's an early 2base attack. 2rax fast expo segues into it well, as does a 1-1-1-expo build. You don't need to win with it, just do a good amount of damage, and it's pretty hard for Protoss to "counter." They can still beat it with good play, better macro/micro etc, but I can't think of a Protoss build (that's mid/end game focused mind you, obviously a 4gate would shut it down) that counters it really.
3cl1ps3 on
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Seguerof the VoidSydney, AustraliaRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Mutalisks/Banshees/VRs
Drops
Lots of air units
Blink stalkers to cover Collosi from Vikings/Corrupters
Seguer on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
It is so delicious.
Is there a trick to Raven/Banshee/x builds besides building the actual units, dropping the PDD in a good spot and hoping the Protoss doesn't respond perfectly?
Well the point of that build is that Thors do a ton of damage, and can one shot Observers, so you use Thor/Raven to snipe Observers while PDDs shut down Stalkers or Phoenixes. Then the cloaked Banshees can wreak havoc.
All that costs a lot of gas so you put some Marines in there; they're also useful for killing zealots that go after your Thors.
EDIT: To further expand upon it, it's an early 2base attack. 2rax fast expo segues into it well, as does a 1-1-1-expo build. You don't need to win with it, just do a good amount of damage, and it's pretty hard for Protoss to "counter." They can still beat it with good play, better macro/micro etc, but I can't think of a Protoss build (that's mid/end game focused mind you, obviously a 4gate would shut it down) that counters it really.
Its really easy to see it coming and double stargate voidray phoenix will shut it down hard.
Dhalphir on
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3cl1ps3I will build a labyrinth to house the cheeseRegistered Userregular
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
It is so delicious.
Is there a trick to Raven/Banshee/x builds besides building the actual units, dropping the PDD in a good spot and hoping the Protoss doesn't respond perfectly?
Well the point of that build is that Thors do a ton of damage, and can one shot Observers, so you use Thor/Raven to snipe Observers while PDDs shut down Stalkers or Phoenixes. Then the cloaked Banshees can wreak havoc.
All that costs a lot of gas so you put some Marines in there; they're also useful for killing zealots that go after your Thors.
EDIT: To further expand upon it, it's an early 2base attack. 2rax fast expo segues into it well, as does a 1-1-1-expo build. You don't need to win with it, just do a good amount of damage, and it's pretty hard for Protoss to "counter." They can still beat it with good play, better macro/micro etc, but I can't think of a Protoss build (that's mid/end game focused mind you, obviously a 4gate would shut it down) that counters it really.
Its really easy to see it coming and double stargate voidray phoenix will shut it down hard.
How do you figure? That leaves you pretty low on gateway units, marines thrash void rays, thors and marines both thrash phoenixes, and that doesn't help you with invisible flying DTs
Protoss of Penny arcade!
I present to you, a PvP scenario.
I am going 4 gate, and scout that my opponent is himself positioning for a 4gate.
At this point, I dont attack, and pull back adding probes/gas (going for a defensive 4 warp gate) and build a robo to get collosus.
Everything is super standard at this point right?
Now, with my observer, I scout a twilight council and realize my opponent is getting blink. My collosus den has just finished.
What is your standard response here?
I've been having a lot of success with slowly laying off the collosus production (getting 2 max, no range) and then grabbing quick chargelots. The chargelots seem to do a great job of counteracting my opponents blink advantage, whilst helping to protect my collosus.
What I want to know is whether you guys think this is efficient or not, or whether there is a much better solution what I've been doing.
To be honest, I usually just add a forge and start +1 weapons, while favouring stalkers over colossi (still producing them where I can but chronoing probes instead. and using the excess minerals to take an expansion. I have a couple replays of this I can show you when I get home.
Usually what ends up happening is that they blink in to kill my colossi and while they're doing so my own stalkers rip them to pieces.
I feel like this is less economy friendly than getting charge. While the total gas price is cheaper (100 gas vs 300 for twilight + charge), you have to keep investing in gas heavy stalkers this cuts away from collosus production, which is what I feel really safely lets you transition into an expansion/macro game scenario.
Sceptre on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited March 2011
Stalkers wreck marines, void Rays wreck the thors, you can't snipe observers when your raven can't move forward without being sniped itself, and phoenix chew through PDD energy like nobodies business because they attack twice per attack. It only takes a few phoenix to completely deny a raven the ability to be aggressive.
I want to play this game somewhat seriously this weekend, anyone want to do a series of games? I am low gold protoss but will play anyone better than me even masters. I just want to improve.
Fizban140 on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
The universe where the marines are attacking into what is likely a concave, and are the only thing able to deal effectively with the void rays thus as long as they are shooting the rays the stalkers are going untouched. Its not a free win but its a better unit comp. We can test it out tonight if you want helix.
Posts
Damn, I didn't know artosis was looking for a team.
He could have been part of the super squad I'm assembling.
Even still, I was promoted to Silver!
3clipse: The key to any successful marriage is a good mid-game transition.
NrG consistently does well in team leagues, and just won the CEVO team league with an extremely good record (something like 14-1, their only loss to EG 3-2). Vibe made it to the quarterfinals of one of the TLOpens and dde consistently places well in tournaments. They aren't the best of the best, but all of them are very solid players.
always looks sharp
so i don't have to choose!
but it will be so worth watching a million dr pepper ads
Clear your goddamn pm inbox.
Seen like four different diagrams and it's still super confusing.
i don't try and understand these crazy tournament layouts anymore
i just watch the games
also hoping that nony wins
naw easter is the 24th this year, its a late one
I present to you, a PvP scenario.
I am going 4 gate, and scout that my opponent is himself positioning for a 4gate.
At this point, I dont attack, and pull back adding probes/gas (going for a defensive 4 warp gate) and build a robo to get collosus.
Everything is super standard at this point right?
Now, with my observer, I scout a twilight council and realize my opponent is getting blink. My collosus den has just finished.
What is your standard response here?
I've been having a lot of success with slowly laying off the collosus production (getting 2 max, no range) and then grabbing quick chargelots. The chargelots seem to do a great job of counteracting my opponents blink advantage, whilst helping to protect my collosus.
What I want to know is whether you guys think this is efficient or not, or whether there is a much better solution what I've been doing.
I'm just going to turn the games on on friday, and watch until sunday. I'm sure Day[J] will explain it thoroughly enough.
It is really simple, there are like 5 pools or whatever and then an open bracket where players kill each other for spots.
I'm the zerg. Had a few times where I did a good job of barely making units in time to stop his push (a little lucky, a little scouting). I saw when it was safe to expand and did so, and the penultimate push out I saw that yes, my army was going to die, but fuck it so was his economy. I didn't realise during the game how WELL I obliterated his ability to do...well anything...but watching the replay made me giggle.
tl;dr Silver beats Gold, not perfect but he's playing zerg, let's cheer him on!
Also, I know I floated minerals, missed some injects, and went WAY too long with no drones in my fourth gas, but again I think overall I'm starting to catch on to what to make when.
I want to get good at that Thor/Marine/Cloaked Banshee/Raven build in TvP.
It is so delicious.
like
fuck pdd urghhh
SCII: Sain.437
When he went Roach it was like signing his own death warrant.
To be honest, I usually just add a forge and start +1 weapons, while favouring stalkers over colossi (still producing them where I can but chronoing probes instead. and using the excess minerals to take an expansion. I have a couple replays of this I can show you when I get home.
Usually what ends up happening is that they blink in to kill my colossi and while they're doing so my own stalkers rip them to pieces.
I just like the synergy of disabling stalkers, sniping observers/cannons with the Raven/Thor, and then just letting your cloaked banshees wreak havoc.
Watch the game again and see when Sen plants his fourth and gold. It's immediately after he sees the first two carriers and (inexplicably) doesn't just kill the first one with his ten mutas. He had NO knowledge of the fleet beacon or carriers prior to his harassment attack. In the face of 'threat of carriers', he double-expanded.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
i wonder why
although i don't really know what he was doing on the team anyway
maybe he's going to form a super team with artosis and storm the sc2 scene
(this most likely will not happen)
(although i want both the plotts to become competitive and artosis too for some sick reason that I can't really fathom)
blink stalkers are super gosu in terms of being mobile
its an instance where protoss can have map control because of the threat of stalker hit squads
it also allows you to defend better against drop play, because you can snipe the drops before they happen or ensure that a unit will die a painful death
it also prolongs the value of your stalkers, as long as you are good at ze blinks
this is all pretty general though and you asked for some specifics so welp
Well the point of that build is that Thors do a ton of damage, and can one shot Observers, so you use Thor/Raven to snipe Observers while PDDs shut down Stalkers or Phoenixes. Then the cloaked Banshees can wreak havoc.
All that costs a lot of gas so you put some Marines in there; they're also useful for killing zealots that go after your Thors.
EDIT: To further expand upon it, it's an early 2base attack. 2rax fast expo segues into it well, as does a 1-1-1-expo build. You don't need to win with it, just do a good amount of damage, and it's pretty hard for Protoss to "counter." They can still beat it with good play, better macro/micro etc, but I can't think of a Protoss build (that's mid/end game focused mind you, obviously a 4gate would shut it down) that counters it really.
Drops
Lots of air units
Blink stalkers to cover Collosi from Vikings/Corrupters
Its really easy to see it coming and double stargate voidray phoenix will shut it down hard.
How do you figure? That leaves you pretty low on gateway units, marines thrash void rays, thors and marines both thrash phoenixes, and that doesn't help you with invisible flying DTs
I feel like this is less economy friendly than getting charge. While the total gas price is cheaper (100 gas vs 300 for twilight + charge), you have to keep investing in gas heavy stalkers this cuts away from collosus production, which is what I feel really safely lets you transition into an expansion/macro game scenario.
really good for getting up close and sniping brood lords
The universe where the marines are attacking into what is likely a concave, and are the only thing able to deal effectively with the void rays thus as long as they are shooting the rays the stalkers are going untouched. Its not a free win but its a better unit comp. We can test it out tonight if you want helix.