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[UPDATE] Roomie's GF moved in - ok to ask for rent?
Daemonion
Mountain ManUSARegistered User regular
Mountain ManUSARegistered User regular
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What we ended up working out was that the two of them would pay about $50 more for their bedroom (we had divided the rent based on square footage, our share of the common areas + our bedroom), and then divided utilities four ways.
The two of us non-girlfriend-mover-inners had to have a discussion with the other roommate while the girlfriend was away though. Just non-confrontationally sat him down, said that she was basically living here now, using water, electricity, etc, and that she needed to pay her share. It actually helped me save a little bit of money, and she didn't turn out to be too bad of a roomie.
But yes, non-confrontational conversation with just the roommate. I think I've seen rent calculators on-line that you can put in square footage and other considerations, and it'll spit out a number of what each person would owe, so maybe hit one of those up for some numbers to start the conversation with.
I'd suggest against an equal split though, or possibly an equal split between utilities but not rent. A lot really depends on whether or not she has her own place somewhere else.
I think she should pay less then any of you three by at least half, she may have moved in but she sure as hell didn't choose the carpet. Don't push for a full share of the rent.
However, I think that she should be paying an equal share. It's not just her, it's a dog as well. I'm honestly a bit surprised the friend didn't bring it up with you & the other tenant beforehand.
The bills should definitely start being split four ways. Personally I'd want the rent to start being split four ways as well, especially if your current arrangement was a simple 3 way split. I could understand the logic of them arguing that they only take up one bedroom for them both, but adding a dog (and the resultant additional cleaning due to dog hair) should play into the deal as well. Assuming it's an inside dog.
I can understand how you'd be a bit pissed off about the situation (I would be too) but do your best to keep your head level. It could work out fine and be an enjoyable experience once you get things sorted out in a more fair way.
We were also in the second-tiniest bedroom out of several and were almost never around. Paying more rent wouldn't have been reasonable IMO.
You should add her on the lease if she's going to be there for a while.
Other specifics will depend on your situation.
On the other hand, she can't cohabit the space without having any impact on it, so you need to work out a share of utilities and food and cleaning and whatever else.
You should also look at your lease; in most jurisdictions a person can't just reside permanently as a "guest" without being considered a tenant and having all those rights and responsibilities (which is another reason asking for rent isn't a good idea.) That probably isn't something you are thinking about at this point but it could become a big deal eventually (i.e. when you try to evict her at some future time.) Taking on another long-term permanent resident is also probably a violation of your lease.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
If the dog is a problem for you guys, or if you simply don't like sharing the house with someone's girlfriend, that's a separate issue, and it would not be wrong to tell your roommate that you're uncomfortable with the current arrangement. It's certainly pretty inconsiderate of your roommate to have someone move in without discussing it with you first.
I think it's important to remember that you have to live with the guy for an extended period after this goes down, so you want to avoid creating drama. Anything that makes it more difficult for her to walk away from the situation if the relationship goes south is probably not a good idea.
So just bring up the fact that her spending that much time at the house shows that she's essentially living there and that if it's going to continue, she needs to pony up or they should start spending some time at her house.
Oh, and with what Nasty Pig said about "long term guests", it's probably spot on. Every place I've lived has had this provision and what she and he are doing is probably in violation of the lease. Same goes with her dog being there.
I don't see what's unreasonable about that. Mind you, I don't know if it would HAVE to be the full amount (rent/4 amongst you three plus her), but some contributing amount regardless.
And don't even get me started on the dog. If it was just her, I can totally imagine a situation where a roommate brings in his girlfriend for a weekend, and over the slippery course of a few weeks she basically begins to live there, and you have to decide how to handle it rent wise. But a dog? Man, if someone brought a dog in the house for more than 48 hours and was okay with it staying there, I would straight up ask them what is going on. She's clearly "moved in", why can't she pay for the privilege of living there?
edit: And since Esh beat me to it, I will echo Nasty AND Esh on guests. This is often covered in leases. In my one bedroom apartment, if I sublet the apartment to someone else (aka set up a bedroom in the living room), rent increases by $50. Having someone over as a guest for more than 14 days makes them a second tenant and requires me to pay this increased rent.
Of course, the potentially confusing thing here is that none of that applies if its my girlfriend. As long as we're in the same bed(room), she's not considered a long term guest, and I don't have to pay extra rent. So OP I would check up on your lease and see if there are any articles that cover that.
It is not the OP's problem if this girl chooses to maintain living in two different residences at the same time. If she's at this place 29/30 days of the month, her other place is just her paid storage facility right now.
That being said, I had to deal with this same shit more than once (sans dog) and I never did anything about it, mostly because, like the OP's situation, the actual roommates were my friends before we lived together, and how do you even start that without feeling like a dick. Then again, the roommate is being a dick by forcing this situation on his friends. New relationship or not, there is common courtesy to think of.
I think maybe a conversation about "guests" not staying over every night of the week could be in order though, if her being there affects your use of things like the bathroom, kitchen, living room/common areas, etc. Again, presumably she has her own place still, so why can't he stay there too? And if she doesn't, well... time to pay up.
You can really easily, and politely, just say to your friend, "Hey, Brosef, the utilities are up a bit since Brosette moved in. It'd be cool if you guys picked up some of that extra since she's here now. Do you want to talk about just adding her to the lease so she's covered in case the landlord comes around?"
If she's a girly-girl who takes three scalding hot showers and a bath every day and runs a space heater in the bedroom because it's only 65 degrees at night, she's obviously putting a significant strain on resources; if she takes most of her showers at the gym and sleeps with the window open, she probably uses less power than anyone else in the place. Either way, you definitely want to figure out what her utility usage is like before you talk to your friend, because if he thinks kicking in an extra $20 every month is enough to make things cool, and she's actually chewing through $100 worth of power, that's not fair to anyone involved.
This could also backfire as the roommate could say "She's not really adding much to the bill so why should she pay?". The fact of the matter is that she's there 99% of the month and should kick an equal share of utilities and a bit of rent (not a full portion since they're sharing a room) to compensate. If she doesn't agree, she needs to go back to spending a significant portion of her nights and days at her own place.
Splitting the utilities evenly is very reasonable, a partial share of a rent payment (given they are sharing a room) is reasonable but the dog pushes things into a full share for me.
I would also suggest to the OP to think about the ways this could end up going. How badly do you need a third and how hard would he be to replace? A very likely outcome to this would be they acknowledging you are correct and seeking out their own place.
I don't think it's that anyone is bitter, it's that the other roommate has imposed a whole new living situation on the other two. This isn't what they signed up for.
Oh, I'm not saying she should only pay for what she uses; I just think that if the OP takes time beforehand to look over the actual bills, he'll probably end up with a very solid rebuttal to any attempt by his roommate to lowball him (as in "fine, I'll just pay an extra $X every month to cover both of us"). It's a lot easier to argue for an equal split in utilities if you have two bills in your hand showing that those utilities increased by 25-40% as soon as the girlfriend moved in. Having the numbers right there will just make the conversation a lot easier, imo.
Talk to the other roommate first and explain to him that she's living there and needs to pay, or they need to start spending time at her place, because as it is she's squatting. You don't have to be mean about it, but don't be passive-aggressive either.
Edit: also, an exact 3 way split on utilities, she enjoys the pleasure of heat, light, and cable as much as the two of us on the lease.
Of course all of this is predicated on the fact that she IS living there. You'll be hard pressed to get them to agree to it if they say that "she's just a guest," but if she really is there 29 days a month, keeps here dog there, houses her things there, uses the utilities on a regular basis, partakes in groceries, and is there regularly when the boyfriend is not, she definitely is living there
Edit deuce: about the dog, make sure she understands that the dog is entirely her responsibility. You should never be required or expected to feed/water/walk it. This isn't to say you won't do those things, because sometimes its nice to do so and it can be fun to walk a dog, but being in a situation where the dog makes a mess on the floor and they try to put you on the spot because you didn't walk it before you went to work sucks. From my experience some dog owners remember having a dog with their family where whoever was there made sure the dog got what it needed because they were all responsible for it. THIS IS NOT ONE of THOSE SITUATIONS, it is her dog, and she is the only one responsible for its care.
/rant over
Having someone just come and live with you in an arrangement where you have roommates is a really really douche thing to do. If it were some friend of his that was a guy who started crashing on the floor of his room instead of a girlfriend, I don't think you'd be quite as cool with it. Really though it's no different. Someone none of you agreed upon now lives with you... and they brought a pet?
Asking for rent would probably be the nicest and most docile thing you could do, given what I would do or most people I know would do. She's not on the lease, she wasn't agreed on as a roommate, everyone I know would just tell him to stop putting everyone in this position so he can get rides and some ass.
If you're annoyed because you have an uninvited new room-mate, then talk about that. If you shift that feelings onto something else (e.g. money, or the availability of the bathroom or something) you'll make things worse, not better.
If you do want her to pay a share of the rent, the correct path is to talk to your landlord and get her on the lease, not just make some weird handshake agreement.
For example, let's say you start charging her rent, and that's fine and all, until she and your roommate split up two months from now. Now she's a tenant, not a guest, and she can require 30 days to move out. You don't have another room for her to live in, now what?
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It's the only reasonable outcome.
EDIT
You probably don't have to get her on the lease. It's not required in every state. My wife hasn't been on, and hasn't had to be on, any of the leases we have signed, for example, and we're on lease number three. It was always provided as an option. Basically you're legally responsible for any issues that may arise in that situation.
I know it has happened, but I was in a similar place a few years ago: roommate moved his girlfriend in without a word and we had to figure out how to do it, financially.
She was never a part of the agreement nor was her dog.
These are bigger issues. No one is saying that everything is cool, but it's a seriously dick move to move someone into a home without prior consent.
Utilities + Food and stuff makes sense but having a separate rent for her would only be on the level if she had a separate room.
However definitely check out if the dog is allowed and see what kind of impact that has on asking for a few more bucks.
Space is money, but money does not always equal space.
Frankly, the break in paying for utilities another way makes a huge difference, but an extra $100 over room value is fair for space-usage.
I used to come home to my roommates girlfriend sprawled on the couch when I wanted to play games on my couch on my television on my xbox in a room full of my artwork, after work. It was another body using not just the bedroom, but the whole apartment.
It's like saying "you can't charge for software because copying it doesn't lose you anything!" Just because you can't point at a physical object and say "your use of this is negatively affecting my lifestyle" doesn't mean that you don't get to charge for that use.
It's also a matter of basic respect; my roommate wanted his girlfriend to move in with us for a few months (and there was a hard time limit to that), so he came and talked to me about it. Water, sewer, and garbage are all included in our rent, and our electricity may as well be free; she chipped in $200 a month on a $1000 apartment, even though she shared his bedroom, and pretty much literally the only time I saw her was when she cooked for us. She was never in the bathroom or laundry room when I wanted it, always kept the kitchen clean, etc. And I even made a condition of her moving in that I was still going to walk around in my boxers, because I'll be damned if I'm going to wear pants in my own goddamn apartment. There was pretty much zero impact on me from her living here. So, why the $200?
We have a lease that we have arranged with a landlord. I went through a lot of trouble to find this apartment (I spent a weekend driving all over Seattle, looked at probably twenty-plus other apartments before I came across this one). If you have another person living there as well, there are logistical factors you have to consider (does she have a key? If so, that's a security risk for you guys, no matter how small). And because it's a new person, maybe you don't feel comfortable walking around in your boxers or whatever any more, or talking about things or acting certain ways which you would be comfortable acting if it were just your friends, which is a significant lifestyle impact to you. Also, someone who is just living there and not paying rent has no reason to give a shit about anything in the apartment; it's just someone else's stuff, and you guys have all made deposits to cover damages, that will be lost to you if she fucks anything up. If she's contributing, she's (at least partly) responsible for that stuff. And like someone said earlier, this is not what you signed up for; her living there wasn't part of your living arrangements with your friends, and if he wanted to change those arrangements, he should have checked with you guys first, instead of just doing it, and hoping you wouldn't mind.
This is all part of the "overhead" of having an apartment, and anyone living there should be contributing to that overhead. It's incredibly inconsiderate of your roommate to expect you to just "suck it up" and accept whatever imposition he chooses to place on you without even asking. And the rent doesn't have to be about the money; it can be about her saying "I understand I'm imposing on you to some degree, and I'm willing to compensate you for that." It could even be something as small as she agrees to clean the kitchen and living room once every few days. So, what, exactly, is fair? That's impossible to say from an objective standpoint; there is a range of "fair" that goes from nothing, all the way up to a full and equal share of the rent, plus additional to pay for the dog, plus back rent, plus a security deposit to be returned to her when you guys move out (or when she moves out, minus any damages she's responsible for) plus a bit more as a "fee" because she just moved in without asking. That being said, "fair" is what you and your roommates willingly agree to accept from her as her part of the rent. Ideally, this gets worked out ahead of time, but since your roommate passive-aggressively allowed her to move in without even checking with you guys, you're going to have to man up and have this discussion with him now.
I would arrange a time to meet with him via email or IM, and ask that his girlfriend not be there. If he insists that she be there, then you're just going to have to man up and put him in this super-awkward-for-him position between you guys and her. But let's be honest, you're not putting him in that position; he put himself in that position by not even having enough respect for you guys to ask before moving his girlfriend into what is also your place. And you really need to do it, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you; if it helps, talk to your other roommate beforehand, and go in with a gameplan, so at least it isn't the two of them ganging up on you, with your other roommate standing on the sidelines as a bystander.
Okay, that was way longer than I intended it to be, but the tl;dr is: you need to ask her for some amount of rent, if only to show your roommate that you're not a doormat.
I want her to pay her share of utilities (which we do without regard to square footage or anything, just everyone pays 1/6th) but nobody else in the house seems interested in actually approaching them with the issue (which is frustrating.) Which is really frustrating, because she definitely lives here and uses our utilities and the things we buy for the house (ie, everyone chips in for paper towels and toilet paper and food and laundry detergent etc and she uses these things). Even more frustrating is I think nobody wants to bring it up because our roommate with the girlfriend has basically severed ties with the rest of the house socially, and nobody wants to snip whatever's left there.
In conclusion, OP, get your rent!
How hard is it to just knock on his door
Harder than you would expect!
You should be paying rent by room, possibly with a modifier for anyone who has significant extra space (giant room, the one with the ensuite, use of a single garage, storing all their shit in the basement etc). The garage is a biggie, since whoever parks off-street pays less car insurance. So GF should be chipping in for BF's share of his room. If you want to be paying by occupant, she deserves at least to have the security (and responsibility!) of being on the lease, or on a proper sublet contract to you, not the wishy washy verbal agreement shit that got you into this situation in the first place. Don't want that? Don't whine about not getting extra rent.
Utilities should always be an equal split, though. Never ever start to quibble about how much one person allegedly uses unless its so egregious that it can't be overlooked. Your house will turn into hell so fast.
I have to wonder if the people who keep saying this have no concept of the layout of apartments.
An apartment is not a series of bedrooms wherein each person has their own little box. There is the bathroom, kitchen, usually (unless you're in a split situation) a living room, maybe a porch, maybe a driveway, all these things are included in the rent. People sharing a bedroom can expect to pay less rent each than people who have their own bedroom, but not just one bedroom's worth... the rest of those areas are all being shared between the total number of people.
From what I've gathered, it was never a formal thing. She just started coming over more and more frequently until one day, the OP realized that she was basically living there.