Once phase 2 starts cho'gall starts pulsing corruption onto the raid; you can't avoid it. If the raid goes into phase 2 with little corruption this isn't a huge deal; if you have a lot, you'll quickly get overwhelmed by vomit and mutations.
The tentacle beams also stack corruption, and reduce the damage/healing of whoever they target. You'll wipe pretty quick if you don't kill them, too. Unless he's under five percent everyone needs to switch to them, and unless he's just about to die it's pretty dodgy to just ignore them.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
We usually drag Cho'gall to the wall next to the throne right before P2. Although doing this can make P2 feel kinda crowded, tentacles will spawn 2-3 on top of eachother. Great for area stuns and interrupts. Cleaves too.
Speaking of Cho'gall/Nef P2's - they REALLY need to fix lightwell. They need to do some or all of the following:
Make it so you can click the thing through a huge tauren standing on top of it.
Make it so it isn't damned near invisible inside all the healer/dps pancakes.
Make it perform like the "smart heal" spells, and automatically tick off to the (insert acceptable integer value here) most damaged people in range who don't already have a lightwell proc on them.
I'm pretty sure that most holy priests would be willing to exchange some heinous holy nerfs / buttsecks to make this last one happen.
for whatever reason it seems like they reeeeaalllly like the lightwell mechanic and keep trying to make it work
I don't hate the idea but the implementation is just, ugh
maybe instead lightwell could give everybody within 20 yards a healthstone kind of thing ; then you could put it on your bars and use it that way
anyway chogie. I actually don't really like dragging him next to a wall or up onto the throne; I understand it restricts the area the tentacles can spawn in, but in practice it just means one or two of them spawn inside his hitbox or behind one of those little ridges in the wall or some other place that makes them similarly hard to see/target. We just pulled him into the middle of the room and had everyone spread out last time we did it. They're a lot easier to see that way.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Make it perform like the "smart heal" spells, and automatically tick off to the (insert acceptable integer value here) most damaged people in range who don't already have a lightwell proc on them.
Those priest mobs in Trial of the Champions have a lightwell that works something like that. I would think it wouldn't be terribly hard to change it to that.
So... I loathe anyone with "lol" appended to their character's name. Just letting that out there!
Me too!
Furrieslol
Bjslol
Erplol
In all seriousness, even on non-RP servers, I'm judgmental about people's character names. Not a matter of immersion, but seeing "Shamwow" the shaman is like, yeah, great, woo, clever.
My worgen druid, Worgimusprme, would like a word with you.
Truth be told after like, 6 months, the joke is old. I should just buy a name change.
That's actually a name that would make me smirk. 'Cause it did.
I've seen very few people playing these days who were squatting the obvious worgen pun names. People grabbed the names, ran around for a week, annnnd that's that. Two of thirty still play those pun characters.
No name will beat the tauren warrior I saw on Dark Iron; Anguskhan.
The guild 2 shot HHalfus last night but we are still stalled on HChimmy. That fight is just a bastard fight. Plain and simple. We get to 10% all the time but then everyone dies. Quick question for you people that down him. When do you BL/H? We are still using it to get to P2 I was just wondering if that was the norm? Also did any of your guilds have all people that could use the TB Mirror to help with the poisons?
My guild is on nCho'gall. First night we could only get him to 50%. Second night, Tuesday, we were getting him to p2 and 12% consistently, but then we just eat it. DPS doesn't seem to be killing the tentacles fast enough. I'm sure we're puking on each other, too. It's frustrating.
It is all about the Tentacles and killing him fast. That and making sure no one is puking on each other etc but those tentacles can rape a raid party fast. I still cringe to this day when we get a set of them at like 3 or so % and the raid leader yells to just finish chewie off as it can be a matter of seconds for the wipe to take place.
My guild is on nCho'gall. First night we could only get him to 50%. Second night, Tuesday, we were getting him to p2 and 12% consistently, but then we just eat it. DPS doesn't seem to be killing the tentacles fast enough. I'm sure we're puking on each other, too. It's frustrating.
Stack ranged, the fight favors ranged to an insane degree.
Give them a rough kill order for tentacles. Like counter clockwise or whatever.
Remember to stun and interrupt them.
People can miss that they're vomiting in the chaos, we have a healer call it out for people when they are.
What seems to work for us on Cho'gall is we have the melee split up on the tentacles to shut them down with stuns and interrupts (including whichever tank isn't currently on Cho'gall) and the ranged dot up then focus down the tentacles, then back to Cho'gall. Keeping the tentacles from beaming everyone is pretty important in keeping everyone alive. Also, bear in mind that the tentacles will always beam the person closest to them when they start casting it, which will probably be your melee, so have your healers keep that in mind whenever a new wave is coming up.
The guild 2 shot HHalfus last night but we are still stalled on HChimmy. That fight is just a bastard fight. Plain and simple. We get to 10% all the time but then everyone dies. Quick question for you people that down him. When do you BL/H? We are still using it to get to P2 I was just wondering if that was the norm? Also did any of your guilds have all people that could use the TB Mirror to help with the poisons?
Why do you feel like you need BL to get to phase 2?
When we were learning the fight, one of my friends wanted to push phase 2 with a BloodLust. He was thinking that one less Feud stage would be good to limit the possiblity of a Tank death before Phase 2.
I am against BLing before Phase 2. You are going to get at least 3-4 Feud's no matter what. That means each tank will have to tank 2 Feuds. You just have to manage your cooldowns correctly so you don't die. This is how we do Chimaeron, and it works pretty well.
2 Warrior Tanks, 1 Holy Paladin, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest. We do not use a "DPS Tank."
Tank 1 goes till first feud starts, Tank 2 taunts for Double attack. At Feud Tank 2 Tanks for all of the Feud, uses Shield wall for the Double attack in Feud(and shield block to become unhittable). After Feud is over, Tank 2 Tanks and Tank 1 Taunts for Double attacks. The first Double attack Tank 1 gets, he will still have three stacks of break so gotta use Shield Block to become unhittable and survive.
The fight just repeats like that for 4 Feuds. We've had fights that were back-to-back-to-back Feuds and it was not a problem. When chimaeron hits 28% we watch our DPS and try to hold off pushing untill after the next massacre. Once that Massacre hits we bloodlust and heal to full and push.
I would agree with all of that, save the kill order on tentacles bit. The tentacles don't do jack shit, except channel an insane (75%) healing / damage debuff. If your DPS focuses one down in say, 4 seconds, by ignoring the other tentacles, 3 of your raiders are down to 25% effectiveness for those 4 seconds. Then you have 2 raiders at 25% effectiveness for the next 4 seconds, and then you have 1 player down to 25% effectiveness for 4 more seconds. If that one player that gets to eat the full 12 seconds of that 75% debuff is one of your healers, you most likely won't recover from that. You can spare having them up a few seconds longer, if it means that interrupts are happening more often on each tentacle. For this reason I would suggest splitting up DPS on tentacles or just letting folks pick their own, to make sure that as many interrupts are happening as possible.
I would agree with all of that, save the kill order on tentacles bit. The tentacles don't do jack shit, except channel an insane (75%) healing / damage debuff. If your DPS focuses one down in say, 4 seconds, by ignoring the other tentacles, 3 of your raiders are down to 25% effectiveness for those 4 seconds. Then you have 2 raiders at 25% effectiveness for the next 4 seconds, and then you have 1 player down to 25% effectiveness for 4 more seconds. If that one player that gets to eat the full 12 seconds of that 75% debuff is one of your healers, you most likely won't recover from that. You can spare having them up a few seconds longer, if it means that interrupts are happening more often on each tentacle. For this reason I would suggest splitting up DPS on tentacles or just letting folks pick their own, to make sure that as many interrupts are happening as possible.
We just have the Tanks run around interrupting every tentacle. If we see a beam, we interrupt it for everyone. But we kinda cheat having 2 warrior tanks in that regard. Charge, Intercept, Shockwave, Shield Bash, Concussive Blow. We can handle an entire wave on our own.
Hey anything that means more interrupts on tentacles is good. I am just saying that since interrupts are the most important thing for that phase, putting half or more of your available interrupts on the same mob instead of spreading them across all four is probably not good.
The guild 2 shot HHalfus last night but we are still stalled on HChimmy. That fight is just a bastard fight. Plain and simple. We get to 10% all the time but then everyone dies. Quick question for you people that down him. When do you BL/H? We are still using it to get to P2 I was just wondering if that was the norm? Also did any of your guilds have all people that could use the TB Mirror to help with the poisons?
Why do you feel like you need BL to get to phase 2?
When we were learning the fight, one of my friends wanted to push phase 2 with a BloodLust. He was thinking that one less Feud stage would be good to limit the possiblity of a Tank death before Phase 2.
I am against BLing before Phase 2. You are going to get at least 3-4 Feud's no matter what. That means each tank will have to tank 2 Feuds. You just have to manage your cooldowns correctly so you don't die. This is how we do Chimaeron, and it works pretty well.
2 Warrior Tanks, 1 Holy Paladin, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest. We do not use a "DPS Tank."
Tank 1 goes till first feud starts, Tank 2 taunts for Double attack. At Feud Tank 2 Tanks for all of the Feud, uses Shield wall for the Double attack in Feud(and shield block to become unhittable). After Feud is over, Tank 2 Tanks and Tank 1 Taunts for Double attacks. The first Double attack Tank 1 gets, he will still have three stacks of break so gotta use Shield Block to become unhittable and survive.
The fight just repeats like that for 4 Feuds. We've had fights that were back-to-back-to-back Feuds and it was not a problem. When chimaeron hits 28% we watch our DPS and try to hold off pushing untill after the next massacre. Once that Massacre hits we bloodlust and heal to full and push.
The healers call for BL and they typically call for it during that last Fued. It is just a fight that causes healers to get all emo and the like. We have excellent healers in my guild but they just get OOM before that last feud.
We also use the 2 tank 1dps method which I am against personally but the GL is adamant that it isnt a two tank fight. To me the fight is somewhat RNG oriented anyways so why not have that extra dps. Losing almost 8k DPS by having a DK stand in front of the boss the whole fight is a big loss.
So how 'bout that dev watercooler on crit? All good stuff, except that they're considering buffing MS effects back up worries me a little. I don't understand the point of trying to balance healer output in PvP with an offensive ability that only some specs have.
I was nerd raging pretty hard about that in another forum, but my stance was basically your last sentence. Ghostcrawler said he didn't want MS to be comp defining and then said it should balance healers. o_O
My guild (yes I'm back in my guild) sets it up like Chimaeron. Just heal the group you're in. It keeps focus on 5 players to make it more manageable. Being a resto druid, I pop tree form and roll LB on all 5 of us. It's enough healing to deal with ground damage and once tree form ends, the LB procs are an extra special bonus goody.
My guild (yes I'm back in my guild) sets it up like Chimaeron. Just heal the group you're in. It keeps focus on 5 players to make it more manageable. Being a resto druid, I pop tree form and roll LB on all 5 of us. It's enough healing to deal with ground damage and once tree form ends, the LB procs are an extra special bonus goody.
No, on Chimeron.
Snap healing is painful. The feud is fine, but slime? Ugh
Yeah, still don't envy healers this expansion. On the plus side, Feint trivializing (for me) most potentially brutal damage effects, healers fuckin love me.
It is just a fight that causes healers to get all emo and the like.
YOU DON'T KNOW OUR PAIN.
seriously tough, being a resto druid on that fight sucks balls.
Are you tank or raid healing on Chim?
Rolling LB on the OT, Sometimes assisting MT and then helping raid.
I suppose a lot of it has to do with the fact our other healers are fairly terrible.
How do you even do the raid healing? Do you just have to regrowth people after a slime when Swiftmend is on cooldown? What about when two of your assignments get slimed?
It seems like druids are really ill-equipped for raid healing that fight to me, so I'm curious how you handle it.
A lot of Phase 2 wipes are absolutely caused by Phase 1 mistakes. The problem is those mistakes typically don't manifest themselves during Phase 1. Ideally, no one should have even hit the 25 corruption point before Phase 2 starts, but one or maybe two people having done so isn't necessarily a wipe if everyone else is low. Your healers are going to be the most aware of Phase 1 failure since they'll (presumably) have noticed and dispelled the 25 corruption debuff on anyone.
This isn't to say that the raids struggling with P2 Cho'gall can't improve their P2 play, necessarily, but that it's possible they have been going into P2 with an essentially intractable situation. Any time you wipe, see if you can get your healers to tell you how many people they had to dispel of the 25 corruption debuff during P1. Use that to determine whether you need to do better in P1 to even have a reasonable chance of getting down P2. That number can and ideally should be zero, and will give you a much better shot of winning if it is.
My guild (yes I'm back in my guild) sets it up like Chimaeron. Just heal the group you're in. It keeps focus on 5 players to make it more manageable. Being a resto druid, I pop tree form and roll LB on all 5 of us. It's enough healing to deal with ground damage and once tree form ends, the LB procs are an extra special bonus goody.
No, on Chimeron.
Snap healing is painful. The feud is fine, but slime? Ugh
You call yourself a resto druid?!
BOY! I'M GONNA WHIP YOU INTO SHAPE!
If you're guild is doing the "Healers heal your own group" strategy, then here's my strategy.
Lifebloom myself. This keeps LB constantly rolling and my HP constantly going up. I rarely have to heal myself beyond keep LB going.
Rejuv. Rejuv. Rejuv. Unless a Slime and Massacre are close together, then Regrowth.
Remember Rejuv is a 12 second hot. Use that entire 12 seconds. Don't refresh it if you don't have to, that's a waste of mana.
Swiftmend! Swiftmend, and by proxy, Efflorsecencekcenecensnen is less useful here because of the 6 yard spreading. However, it's great in an emergency and during failure.
Wild Growth! Use it on Cooldown on a group member that's not you. It'll hit 6 players that need heals.
Innervate! Use it when your mana hits 75%. You'll have it again during the fight.
Tree Of Life. Like Swiftmend, it's most useful during the bot failure and group collapse.
NOW HOP TO IT SON! BE THE BEST DAMN DRUID YOU CAN BE!
Justin your guide is about as useful as telling a fire mage to make sure he's using fire spells.
In other words.....no shit. And why would you put LB on yourself when there's a tank that would be happy to have it?
Resto druid's tool box just doesn't line up well with Chimeron's needs.
As for slime targets, I'll rejuv-swiftmend one and if another healer doesn't grab the other I'll regrowth him as my gear is at the point where I don't really have to wait for clear casting to afford it.
Now that I've done loremaster of cata, is there any specific way I can grind up some gold without gathering profession fly-bys? Like is it profitable to just cruise through old old raids?
Posts
The tentacle beams also stack corruption, and reduce the damage/healing of whoever they target. You'll wipe pretty quick if you don't kill them, too. Unless he's under five percent everyone needs to switch to them, and unless he's just about to die it's pretty dodgy to just ignore them.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Speaking of Cho'gall/Nef P2's - they REALLY need to fix lightwell. They need to do some or all of the following:
Make it so you can click the thing through a huge tauren standing on top of it.
Make it so it isn't damned near invisible inside all the healer/dps pancakes.
Make it perform like the "smart heal" spells, and automatically tick off to the (insert acceptable integer value here) most damaged people in range who don't already have a lightwell proc on them.
I'm pretty sure that most holy priests would be willing to exchange some heinous holy nerfs / buttsecks to make this last one happen.
I don't hate the idea but the implementation is just, ugh
maybe instead lightwell could give everybody within 20 yards a healthstone kind of thing ; then you could put it on your bars and use it that way
anyway chogie. I actually don't really like dragging him next to a wall or up onto the throne; I understand it restricts the area the tentacles can spawn in, but in practice it just means one or two of them spawn inside his hitbox or behind one of those little ridges in the wall or some other place that makes them similarly hard to see/target. We just pulled him into the middle of the room and had everyone spread out last time we did it. They're a lot easier to see that way.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Those priest mobs in Trial of the Champions have a lightwell that works something like that. I would think it wouldn't be terribly hard to change it to that.
....
Wat.
Me too!
Furrieslol
Bjslol
Erplol
In all seriousness, even on non-RP servers, I'm judgmental about people's character names. Not a matter of immersion, but seeing "Shamwow" the shaman is like, yeah, great, woo, clever.
My worgen druid, Worgimusprme, would like a word with you.
All the shinies are belong to me.
That's actually a name that would make me smirk. 'Cause it did.
I've seen very few people playing these days who were squatting the obvious worgen pun names. People grabbed the names, ran around for a week, annnnd that's that. Two of thirty still play those pun characters.
No name will beat the tauren warrior I saw on Dark Iron; Anguskhan.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I think using it before P2 to top everyone off and push to P2 cleanly is what I prefer.
Nobody (except maybe one of our tanks...but I doubt it on this fight) uses the Mirror.
Stack ranged, the fight favors ranged to an insane degree.
Give them a rough kill order for tentacles. Like counter clockwise or whatever.
Remember to stun and interrupt them.
People can miss that they're vomiting in the chaos, we have a healer call it out for people when they are.
Why do you feel like you need BL to get to phase 2?
When we were learning the fight, one of my friends wanted to push phase 2 with a BloodLust. He was thinking that one less Feud stage would be good to limit the possiblity of a Tank death before Phase 2.
I am against BLing before Phase 2. You are going to get at least 3-4 Feud's no matter what. That means each tank will have to tank 2 Feuds. You just have to manage your cooldowns correctly so you don't die. This is how we do Chimaeron, and it works pretty well.
2 Warrior Tanks, 1 Holy Paladin, 1 Disc Priest, 1 Holy Priest. We do not use a "DPS Tank."
Tank 1 goes till first feud starts, Tank 2 taunts for Double attack. At Feud Tank 2 Tanks for all of the Feud, uses Shield wall for the Double attack in Feud(and shield block to become unhittable). After Feud is over, Tank 2 Tanks and Tank 1 Taunts for Double attacks. The first Double attack Tank 1 gets, he will still have three stacks of break so gotta use Shield Block to become unhittable and survive.
The fight just repeats like that for 4 Feuds. We've had fights that were back-to-back-to-back Feuds and it was not a problem. When chimaeron hits 28% we watch our DPS and try to hold off pushing untill after the next massacre. Once that Massacre hits we bloodlust and heal to full and push.
We just have the Tanks run around interrupting every tentacle. If we see a beam, we interrupt it for everyone. But we kinda cheat having 2 warrior tanks in that regard. Charge, Intercept, Shockwave, Shield Bash, Concussive Blow. We can handle an entire wave on our own.
The healers call for BL and they typically call for it during that last Fued. It is just a fight that causes healers to get all emo and the like. We have excellent healers in my guild but they just get OOM before that last feud.
We also use the 2 tank 1dps method which I am against personally but the GL is adamant that it isnt a two tank fight. To me the fight is somewhat RNG oriented anyways so why not have that extra dps. Losing almost 8k DPS by having a DK stand in front of the boss the whole fight is a big loss.
YOU DON'T KNOW OUR PAIN.
seriously tough, being a resto druid on that fight sucks balls.
Or did we??"
Being a Resto Druid is easy.
My guild (yes I'm back in my guild) sets it up like Chimaeron. Just heal the group you're in. It keeps focus on 5 players to make it more manageable. Being a resto druid, I pop tree form and roll LB on all 5 of us. It's enough healing to deal with ground damage and once tree form ends, the LB procs are an extra special bonus goody.
No, on Chimeron.
Snap healing is painful. The feud is fine, but slime? Ugh
Rolling LB on the OT, Sometimes assisting MT and then helping raid.
I suppose a lot of it has to do with the fact our other healers are fairly terrible.
It seems like druids are really ill-equipped for raid healing that fight to me, so I'm curious how you handle it.
A lot of Phase 2 wipes are absolutely caused by Phase 1 mistakes. The problem is those mistakes typically don't manifest themselves during Phase 1. Ideally, no one should have even hit the 25 corruption point before Phase 2 starts, but one or maybe two people having done so isn't necessarily a wipe if everyone else is low. Your healers are going to be the most aware of Phase 1 failure since they'll (presumably) have noticed and dispelled the 25 corruption debuff on anyone.
This isn't to say that the raids struggling with P2 Cho'gall can't improve their P2 play, necessarily, but that it's possible they have been going into P2 with an essentially intractable situation. Any time you wipe, see if you can get your healers to tell you how many people they had to dispel of the 25 corruption debuff during P1. Use that to determine whether you need to do better in P1 to even have a reasonable chance of getting down P2. That number can and ideally should be zero, and will give you a much better shot of winning if it is.
You call yourself a resto druid?!
BOY! I'M GONNA WHIP YOU INTO SHAPE!
If you're guild is doing the "Healers heal your own group" strategy, then here's my strategy.
Lifebloom myself. This keeps LB constantly rolling and my HP constantly going up. I rarely have to heal myself beyond keep LB going.
Rejuv. Rejuv. Rejuv. Unless a Slime and Massacre are close together, then Regrowth.
Remember Rejuv is a 12 second hot. Use that entire 12 seconds. Don't refresh it if you don't have to, that's a waste of mana.
Swiftmend! Swiftmend, and by proxy, Efflorsecencekcenecensnen is less useful here because of the 6 yard spreading. However, it's great in an emergency and during failure.
Wild Growth! Use it on Cooldown on a group member that's not you. It'll hit 6 players that need heals.
Innervate! Use it when your mana hits 75%. You'll have it again during the fight.
Tree Of Life. Like Swiftmend, it's most useful during the bot failure and group collapse.
NOW HOP TO IT SON! BE THE BEST DAMN DRUID YOU CAN BE!
In other words.....no shit. And why would you put LB on yourself when there's a tank that would be happy to have it?
Resto druid's tool box just doesn't line up well with Chimeron's needs.
As for slime targets, I'll rejuv-swiftmend one and if another healer doesn't grab the other I'll regrowth him as my gear is at the point where I don't really have to wait for clear casting to afford it.
LB on yourself is more important than putting on a tank if the tank has assigned healers.
Edit: Wait are you 10 or 25 man? Cuz if you're 10 man, you're dead to me.
We're 2/13 hard mode.