I've done Gnomer like twice in all these years, and the fucked up thing about its complexity is that when you're being lead around by people who know how to get to all the bosses, it seems like a very short dungeon.
And this is the difference between Gnomer and WC. I can finish Gnomer in 15 minutes; even if I fly through it, WC takes 30 minutes easy. My main is Horde btw, so this isn't just Alliance that don't like it.
The nice thing about Gnomer as Alliance is that the quest tells you where to go and you don't really get that as Horde, although every group I've been in wants to skip the boss that drops the Crowd Pummeler or doesn't know he's there.
At least with WC you can port out and back in to start Mutanus and that guy actually runs now, but it's kind of a kick in the pants to think you're done and then you have to run back through and kill another guy to get your bag.
IndieGirl on
0
AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
Honestly I can't even think of how that works cleanly in Gnomer.
I mean there's the trogg boss, which is just kind of along the way.
And then I think the Emi Shortfuse event happens next?
And then why do I think there's the escort or something with the big room with the angled wall with all the schoolrooms cut into it?
That goes out to the ooze that drops Hydrocanes, right?
And then somehow from that is the mecha-pummeler.
And then a giant fuckton assload of trash, then Thermaplugg.
I think that's right.
On the other hand, this is the pre-nerf Sunken Temple:
(if you need to do bottom, first go first right, down, clear this ring, do the statue pulls, back up to beginning, second right, all the way down, clear trash, kill Atal'alarion.)
Second left, up, clear this ring, back to entrance, first left, clear central wing, clear dragonkin packs leading to Jammal'an, Eranikus, in the collapsed alcove, south to Jammal'an, back out to Morphaz, east to Hazzas, then north to Eranikus, go west to Hakkar.
You guys are all wrong. Mara is the worst instance ever.
Oh god, a month ago we were doing dungeons for guild achievements and I beat my guild to Mara's entrance so I ran in ahead of them. They couldn't decide which entrance to use so I went into the orange one, and they ended up going purple. I never, ever, ever came across them in the dungeon.
I guess the graveyard in BRM is fairly obnoxious, but they seem like they've done a pretty good job of putting them right in front of most of the oldworld instances
on the other hand, my shaman didn't die much while I was leveling, so who knows
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
I can understand that sentiment, but at the same time I can appreciate having to do that.
But hey, nothing will top Molten Core. Fight through a dungeon to get to the instanced dungeon, and then fight through that to get to the raid dungeon! Thank God for attunement, right? :P
Henroid on
0
AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
At least there was quests to do on the run in. And WC was glorious back in the day and still is as a XP hub for horde. Lots of quests and lots of mobs. They should have just left it how it was and broken in up like BRD.
I guess the graveyard in BRM is fairly obnoxious, but they seem like they've done a pretty good job of putting them right in front of most of the oldworld instances
on the other hand, my shaman didn't die much while I was leveling, so who knows
Yeah, they've definitely gotten better at moving them.
I was in a total fail group in Heroic Deadmines not too long ago (we couldn't beat the Reaper*), and noticed that they'd finally put a graveyard in front of the Deadmines entrance (boy did I get to see it a lot). Going through Deadmines normal was always a pain to find the right building, etc., and the corpse locater on your map is useless because it's in the middle of the damn mountain.
* The guy in the robot suit couldn't keep the adds from coming up the ramp, and, I'll be honest, I'm never 100% sure what I'm supposed to be doing as a melee DPSer when the Reaper starts his special moves. I run away, I get chased down and killed (helped by an add blowing up on me). I stay there, I get shredded when he walks through me twice. It's kind of obnoxious.
Finally convinced people to let me take the robot suit (earlier, the tank kept putting his guild buddy in it because "he'd done it before" and I hadn't) and we one-shot it. The farthest an add ever made it up the ramp was about 5 yards.
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
How could you not love the XP that came out of that area pre cata.... they made them non elites, lowered the amount to kill, and you still kept the elite/group quest turn in for amount of xp earned. Also the only realiable place to get a trinket until 50+
Jubal77 on
0
HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
The only thing that was awful about the Hinterlands was Jinthra Alor, and even after Cata it's still kinda bad. If anyone else, at all, is questing there you're in for a long time because the respawn rates on things are total shit, and sometimes you have to go ahead of which tier you're questing on to get some quest objects tackled, which throws the whole thing in for a loop.
Henroid on
0
AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
How could you not love the XP that came out of that area pre cata.... they made them non elites, lowered the amount to kill, and you still kept the elite/group quest turn in for amount of xp earned. Also the only realiable place to get a trinket until 50+
Because it was grossly out of level with having to run through it to get the Ancient Egg for Sunken Temple/grabbing a hammer for ZF.
Holy crap I had no idea they'd cleaned up the pre-BC instances so much with Cata. I'm simultaneously ecstatic to run so many so evenly and also sad for all the questing that means I'd skip.
Wait 'til 4.1 lands. Half the Wailing Caverns is being cut out (with a couple boss positions changing).
Stupid whinning newbs/alliance... WC wasnt that bad. Why does everything have to be a straight shot.
I disagree with the complainers being Alliance only, but yeah, dungeons being straight shots is boring as fuck. It's like that image, "These are dungeons, these are hallways."
There is a difference between linear and "what the fuck, did we just go in a circle 18 times?" BRD was well designed in this regard. It was really hard to go in a circle, but it had a few paths. WC just makes me feel like I'm lost in the woods because all the trees look the same and I don't know where the fuck I am.
Then you obviously haven't spent enough time in there. :?
I may or may not have a hand drawn a map of the place
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
The only thing that was awful about the Hinterlands was Jinthra Alor, and even after Cata it's still kinda bad. If anyone else, at all, is questing there you're in for a long time because the respawn rates on things are total shit, and sometimes you have to go ahead of which tier you're questing on to get some quest objects tackled, which throws the whole thing in for a loop.
??? Not so sir.... not so. JA was go to tier and kill mobs and grab what quest items you could.... move up to next tier kill mobs and continue grabbing items. Continue up till you get to top. Grab first skull. Talk to semi-dead shaman. Kill priestess. Kill mobs. Kills bitch in the cave. Talk to shaman again and send him on his merry way. Grab second skull. Jump down waterfall. DONE! Easy.
I went into the revamped ST the other day to grab the cheevo on my druid and oh man was I disappointed. I mean it went from being a dungeon with a mechanic (kill the mini bosses, kill the boss, kill the main boss and kill the secret main boss) that was unique and interesting to just...level 45 BWD. I could understand if they wanted to move the portal and make Hakkar not require a quest line to fight but getting rid of the mini boss mechanic was sad.
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
The only thing that was awful about the Hinterlands was Jinthra Alor, and even after Cata it's still kinda bad. If anyone else, at all, is questing there you're in for a long time because the respawn rates on things are total shit, and sometimes you have to go ahead of which tier you're questing on to get some quest objects tackled, which throws the whole thing in for a loop.
??? Not so sir.... not so. JA was go to tier and kill mobs and grab what quest items you could.... move up to next tier kill mobs and continue grabbing items. Continue up till you get to top. Grab first skull. Talk to semi-dead shaman. Kill priestess. Kill mobs. Kills bitch in the cave. Talk to shaman again and send him on his merry way. Grab second skull. Jump down waterfall. DONE! Easy.
You know what really sucks? Any and all instances where there's a non-instanced dungeon you have to fight through before you get to the instance.
I hate all of those.
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
The only thing that was awful about the Hinterlands was Jinthra Alor, and even after Cata it's still kinda bad. If anyone else, at all, is questing there you're in for a long time because the respawn rates on things are total shit, and sometimes you have to go ahead of which tier you're questing on to get some quest objects tackled, which throws the whole thing in for a loop.
??? Not so sir.... not so. JA was go to tier and kill mobs and grab what quest items you could.... move up to next tier kill mobs and continue grabbing items. Continue up till you get to top. Grab first skull. Talk to semi-dead shaman. Kill priestess. Kill mobs. Kills bitch in the cave. Talk to shaman again and send him on his merry way. Grab second skull. Jump down waterfall. DONE! Easy.
There is a distinct level of difference in the complexity of JA to BT. If you got lost in JA you have a lovely little road you could follow all the way to the top too...
JA was fine once they realized it was dumb for all the mobs to be elites.
It was actually kind of fun back in the day the like, one time I ever found a five man group that wanted to do it. I remember getting like two levels in an hour and a half or something by clearing the whole place twice and getting all the quests done.
but it wasn't like that happened very often
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
also, the crappy thing about the deadmines is that even though they put that nice spirit angel right outside, sometimes when you die it'll still spawn your ghost in the GY outside moonbrook for some reason
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I don't know if it's systemic or what, but anecdotally I don't think I've ever seen player attrition as bad as it has been lately, excluding late WotLK when Ruby Sanctum had been out for more than a month and my guild took an unofficial half-year vacation.
I took a week or so off (during which I canceled my sub as of August)...and the 4 characters I had in a mega guild all got kicked. In fact, the guild appears to have dropped about half the characters it had.
Think I'll keep logging in on my druid sporadically for Anzu.
Holy crap I had no idea they'd cleaned up the pre-BC instances so much with Cata. I'm simultaneously ecstatic to run so many so evenly and also sad for all the questing that means I'd skip.
Wait 'til 4.1 lands. Half the Wailing Caverns is being cut out (with a couple boss positions changing).
Stupid whinning newbs/alliance... WC wasnt that bad. Why does everything have to be a straight shot.
I disagree with the complainers being Alliance only, but yeah, dungeons being straight shots is boring as fuck. It's like that image, "These are dungeons, these are hallways."
There is a difference between linear and "what the fuck, did we just go in a circle 18 times?" BRD was well designed in this regard. It was really hard to go in a circle, but it had a few paths. WC just makes me feel like I'm lost in the woods because all the trees look the same and I don't know where the fuck I am.
Then you obviously haven't spent enough time in there. :?
I may or may not have a hand drawn a map of the place
Maybe you remember my drawings about a year back where I drew WC? :P
bowen on
not a doctor, not a lawyer, examples I use may not be fully researched so don't take out of context plz, don't @ me
Even if it did, what would be the point of cleaning house?
It only benefits the guild to keep people around even if they're not raiding or whatever the guilds focus is. It contributes towards achievements having them around and their looting contributes to the gbank without any effort.
At this point with guild levels/perks/etc I can't think of a good reason a guild would do that unless they just want to be dicks. I mean shit, there's a guild on my horde server that makes no bones about how they have whole ranks of people who they invite purely for the perks/benefits it brings to the players and to the guild, but they just disable pretty much every option including guild chat, bank use, etc, for those ranks. Folks going in know the deal, and everyone benefits. Hell, I was tempted but decided nah, I'll just stick to my own personal guild. Almost level 3 on my own (wish I had leveled some before they nerfed the xp), I figure I'll get 4-5 by the time I finish all of my characters in it to 85 and finish the cata zones. That's cool with me. I have some RL friends if they ever come back to wow, can join in and help out.
Yeah, sometime last week, I think. Because Guild rep sucks, and I had only recently joined, I was somewhere between Friendly and Honored. So even then I couldn't really partake of all the goodies.
Yeah, sometime last week, I think. Because Guild rep sucks, and I had only recently joined, I was somewhere between Friendly and Honored. So even then I couldn't really partake of all the goodies.
You would think that he was makign more money from people lotting mobs then to sell it. /shrug
I'm not sure if it's because my guild transferred to a large server (Alliance Mal'Ganis -> Alliance Kel'Thuzad) but it just feels like people are just becoming bigger jerks as time goes on. Makes me sad.
One of the better raiding guilds on our server did that, opened the flood gates to all the terrible people on server to boost their numbers. They were incredibly abusive to them apparently, and timed dinging to 25 for when they had the fewest of them on so they could boot them all before they cashed in on the mount.
Leveling a druid through tanking, and he's finally reached the level that Gnomer no longer shows up in randoms.
People are retarded when it comes to the parachute. Always landing on what feels like every mob in the instance.
Posts
And this is the difference between Gnomer and WC. I can finish Gnomer in 15 minutes; even if I fly through it, WC takes 30 minutes easy. My main is Horde btw, so this isn't just Alliance that don't like it.
The nice thing about Gnomer as Alliance is that the quest tells you where to go and you don't really get that as Horde, although every group I've been in wants to skip the boss that drops the Crowd Pummeler or doesn't know he's there.
At least with WC you can port out and back in to start Mutanus and that guy actually runs now, but it's kind of a kick in the pants to think you're done and then you have to run back through and kill another guy to get your bag.
I mean there's the trogg boss, which is just kind of along the way.
And then I think the Emi Shortfuse event happens next?
And then why do I think there's the escort or something with the big room with the angled wall with all the schoolrooms cut into it?
That goes out to the ooze that drops Hydrocanes, right?
And then somehow from that is the mecha-pummeler.
And then a giant fuckton assload of trash, then Thermaplugg.
I think that's right.
On the other hand, this is the pre-nerf Sunken Temple:
(if you need to do bottom, first go first right, down, clear this ring, do the statue pulls, back up to beginning, second right, all the way down, clear trash, kill Atal'alarion.)
Second left, up, clear this ring, back to entrance, first left, clear central wing, clear dragonkin packs leading to Jammal'an, Eranikus, in the collapsed alcove, south to Jammal'an, back out to Morphaz, east to Hazzas, then north to Eranikus, go west to Hakkar.
And people called that confusing.
Oh god, a month ago we were doing dungeons for guild achievements and I beat my guild to Mara's entrance so I ran in ahead of them. They couldn't decide which entrance to use so I went into the orange one, and they ended up going purple. I never, ever, ever came across them in the dungeon.
I hate all of those.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
People who die.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
on the other hand, my shaman didn't die much while I was leveling, so who knows
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
I can understand that sentiment, but at the same time I can appreciate having to do that.
But hey, nothing will top Molten Core. Fight through a dungeon to get to the instanced dungeon, and then fight through that to get to the raid dungeon! Thank God for attunement, right? :P
You know what's worse? All those outdoor troll dungeons in the Hinterlands pre-Cata. Fucking High Priestess Hexx.
At least there was quests to do on the run in. And WC was glorious back in the day and still is as a XP hub for horde. Lots of quests and lots of mobs. They should have just left it how it was and broken in up like BRD.
I was in a total fail group in Heroic Deadmines not too long ago (we couldn't beat the Reaper*), and noticed that they'd finally put a graveyard in front of the Deadmines entrance (boy did I get to see it a lot). Going through Deadmines normal was always a pain to find the right building, etc., and the corpse locater on your map is useless because it's in the middle of the damn mountain.
* The guy in the robot suit couldn't keep the adds from coming up the ramp, and, I'll be honest, I'm never 100% sure what I'm supposed to be doing as a melee DPSer when the Reaper starts his special moves. I run away, I get chased down and killed (helped by an add blowing up on me). I stay there, I get shredded when he walks through me twice. It's kind of obnoxious.
Finally convinced people to let me take the robot suit (earlier, the tank kept putting his guild buddy in it because "he'd done it before" and I hadn't) and we one-shot it. The farthest an add ever made it up the ramp was about 5 yards.
Steam: Elvenshae // PSN: Elvenshae // WotC: Elvenshae
Wilds of Aladrion: [https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/comment/43159014/#Comment_43159014]Ellandryn[/url]
How could you not love the XP that came out of that area pre cata.... they made them non elites, lowered the amount to kill, and you still kept the elite/group quest turn in for amount of xp earned. Also the only realiable place to get a trinket until 50+
The only thing that was awful about the Hinterlands was Jinthra Alor, and even after Cata it's still kinda bad. If anyone else, at all, is questing there you're in for a long time because the respawn rates on things are total shit, and sometimes you have to go ahead of which tier you're questing on to get some quest objects tackled, which throws the whole thing in for a loop.
Because it was grossly out of level with having to run through it to get the Ancient Egg for Sunken Temple/grabbing a hammer for ZF.
Then you obviously haven't spent enough time in there. :?
I may or may not have a hand drawn a map of the place
??? Not so sir.... not so. JA was go to tier and kill mobs and grab what quest items you could.... move up to next tier kill mobs and continue grabbing items. Continue up till you get to top. Grab first skull. Talk to semi-dead shaman. Kill priestess. Kill mobs. Kills bitch in the cave. Talk to shaman again and send him on his merry way. Grab second skull. Jump down waterfall. DONE! Easy.
Edit.Forgot one step.
Reminds me of something...
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
There is a distinct level of difference in the complexity of JA to BT.
It was actually kind of fun back in the day the like, one time I ever found a five man group that wanted to do it. I remember getting like two levels in an hour and a half or something by clearing the whole place twice and getting all the quests done.
but it wasn't like that happened very often
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Think I'll keep logging in on my druid sporadically for Anzu.
Maybe you remember my drawings about a year back where I drew WC? :P
It only benefits the guild to keep people around even if they're not raiding or whatever the guilds focus is. It contributes towards achievements having them around and their looting contributes to the gbank without any effort.
At this point with guild levels/perks/etc I can't think of a good reason a guild would do that unless they just want to be dicks. I mean shit, there's a guild on my horde server that makes no bones about how they have whole ranks of people who they invite purely for the perks/benefits it brings to the players and to the guild, but they just disable pretty much every option including guild chat, bank use, etc, for those ranks. Folks going in know the deal, and everyone benefits. Hell, I was tempted but decided nah, I'll just stick to my own personal guild. Almost level 3 on my own (wish I had leveled some before they nerfed the xp), I figure I'll get 4-5 by the time I finish all of my characters in it to 85 and finish the cata zones. That's cool with me. I have some RL friends if they ever come back to wow, can join in and help out.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Yeah, sometime last week, I think. Because Guild rep sucks, and I had only recently joined, I was somewhere between Friendly and Honored. So even then I couldn't really partake of all the goodies.
I made a statement in general about having to fight off Horde doucheys do I really have to put up with it from my own faction.
To which someone replied: "most of these guys are feeding their family off the gold they make in WoW."
to which I replied "..."
"No serious...the chinese make a fortune off selling gold."
"......"
and then, of course, I got the obligatory "kill mobs faster..."
But then, the node ganking stopped. I'm wondering if you just need to remind people that they are being geese sometimes for them to stop being geese.
You would think that he was makign more money from people lotting mobs then to sell it. /shrug
They actively poach players from other guilds. They have to, they burn through people so quickly.
Like everyone in our guild has gotten whispers from them trying to get us to leave and join them, even while we're raiding.
Not hard to keep 6 people around when you're 4/12 hard modes, especially on our server.
It works, but I can't see a new group coming up with the wherewithal to jump down after pummeler.
People are retarded when it comes to the parachute. Always landing on what feels like every mob in the instance.