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[WOW] [CHAT] thread. 4.2 on the PTR, time to chuck woodland animals.

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    AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Arivia wrote: »
    Elvenshae wrote: »
    Arivia wrote: »
    It makes me sad how much of a mess talent trees are in Cata.

    ... what?

    Seriously. I'm still seeing bleh talent tiers (the first two of Arms come to mind), there's a fair bit of increase x spell's damage by 3% talents still around, and getting a talent point every two levels leads to dead levels where you get nothing at all.

    Having to pick trees to specialize in with bonuses was good, but there are some definite issues with them in general.

    Arivia is justifiably insane. I can forgive though!

    The first two tiers of any talent tree have to appeal to the other two. The idea is supporting talents that work no matter the spec. That's why War Academy boosts the damage of shit Arms can't even learn; it's versatile as a talent. When you get to the third tier and beyond, you start knocking into the stuff that REALLY defines the playstyle of any given talent tree.

    The talent trees are NOT a mess. You did see them before, right? These talent trees are as pristine as the un-driven snow.

    You take Blitz, War Academy and Deep Wounds and then your last two points go to what, hmm?

    Arivia on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Field Dressing. More healing received is more healing received.

    Henroid on
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    AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I guess. It's just blah to waste two points on that, especially when the point of redoing the talents was to get rid of this kind of marginal stuff.

    Arivia on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It isn't a waste of talents. It's a small-bone tossed to healers when you take damage in a fight.

    Edit - And more importantly, for your solo-act, it'll help you out with your Victory Rush.

    Henroid on
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    I needed anime to post.I needed anime to post. boom Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    part of the point of the talent revamp was so you made decisions about what useless fluff you wanted in your spec

    I needed anime to post. on
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    HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    part of the point of the talent revamp was so you made decisions about what useless fluff you wanted in your spec

    "Useless" - Very few things are all geared toward 100% talents spent on min/maxing your DPS gains. Sometimes you have to choose perky, quality-of-life talents, or survivability talents. They're good choices still.

    Henroid on
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    HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    So has anyone else noticed an increase in queue times? in ZA/ZG atleast? on my server i noticed a drop from 25-30min queues down to 10-15min queues when 4.1 first went live, but now they've creeped up again to 25-30 (hinting more to 30) minute queues...


    At first i thought it was just the time i happend to log on, but now i've been logged on in my servers 'prime' and pretty much all in between and its still hovering around 25-30mins...

    Heroth on
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    IndieGirlIndieGirl Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Heroth wrote: »
    So has anyone else noticed an increase in queue times? in ZA/ZG atleast? on my server i noticed a drop from 25-30min queues down to 10-15min queues when 4.1 first went live, but now they've creeped up again to 25-30 (hinting more to 30) minute queues...


    At first i thought it was just the time i happend to log on, but now i've been logged on in my servers 'prime' and pretty much all in between and its still hovering around 25-30mins...

    It's what everyone said would happen and it has. Honestly making tanks queue solo in order to get a satchel is kind of a dick move, especially when CtA is up for tank+healer but you can't even queue with a healer. My husband and I both ran multiple heroics on our tanks (regular and ZAZG heroics both) this weekend to check out the satchels and it was an exercise in futility. 50% of groups, the money in the satchel didn't even cover the repair bill. It's honestly not worth it, I'd rather farm mounts and pets the old way. It's cheaper and less stressful in the long run.

    IndieGirl on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I think the Satchel was hyped up to be more exciting than it actually is. Common scenario is something like..

    Tank: Oh man, this Satchel trembles with THE WEIGHT OF POTENTIAL.
    * You recieve some gold and an uncut gem.
    Tank: Wow fuck, never solo queuing for this junk again.

    Right? People were lured in by the prospects of cool mounts (myself included), but quickly found out it's just not worth the effort involved. It was designed to lower queue times and provide some incentive for solo-queuing.. But fell apart fairly quickly. I would wager that CtA actually caused more inconvenience than anything, seeing as a whole flock of non-healers/tanks queued up as dps just for the goodie bag.

    I'm not sure if it's still too soon to judge the success of CtA yet. Personally I think it's a failure, but I guess I'll see how it's holding up in a few more weeks, just to be totally scientific about it and have more data.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    shrykeshryke Member of the Beast Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I don't think it's a failure, it's just not that effective.

    I bet you the lowered queues were mostly people jumping back into the game to see the new instance/people who stopped queueing for heroics trying out the new instances.

    Now that they've gotten old again or they've gotten everything they want or whatever, they took off and queue times jumped once more.

    shryke on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    CtA wasn't supposed to magically make queues 5 minutes for dps. Declaring it a failure for not doing what it wasn't supposed to do is silly. If all you ever do is queue with your guildmates then you were out of the intended target demographic for it: all it was designed to do was to get people playing hybrid classes by themselves to think twice about queuing for randoms as dps. And anecdotally I've seen people in my guild be swayed to go run a random because the healer CtA was active.

    Opty on
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    HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Opty wrote: »
    CtA wasn't supposed to magically make queues 5 minutes for dps. Declaring it a failure for not doing what it wasn't supposed to do is silly. If all you ever do is queue with your guildmates then you were out of the intended target demographic for it: all it was designed to do was to get people playing hybrid classes by themselves to think twice about queuing for randoms as dps. And anecdotally I've seen people in my guild be swayed to go run a random because the healer CtA was active.

    I'm fairly sure it was actually designed for that exact purpose, to decrease DPS queue times, which so far (admittedly it hasn't been out that long) it has failed to do on a constant level...

    What other reason would rewarding the most 'needed' class for queueing, be?

    Heroth on
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    OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yes, it was to help DPS queue times by enticing people who regularly queued by themselves as dps when they could tank or heal instead to queue for those roles. That's why it only works when you're by yourself. No one ever thought they'd lower queue times any more than 5 minutes maximum unless they were being silly about just how much the system was going to help.

    Opty on
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    DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Opty wrote: »
    CtA wasn't supposed to magically make queues 5 minutes for dps. Declaring it a failure for not doing what it wasn't supposed to do is silly. If all you ever do is queue with your guildmates then you were out of the intended target demographic for it: all it was designed to do was to get people playing hybrid classes by themselves to think twice about queuing for randoms as dps. And anecdotally I've seen people in my guild be swayed to go run a random because the healer CtA was active.

    It wasn't supposed to make queue times 5 minutes, that is correct. It was designed to make non-absurd queue times. 15-20 minutes is acceptable.

    Blizzard said CtA was designed with the intention of combating long queue times for dps, via means of providing a reason (goodie bag) to get tanks/healers to queue up. So no, it was not designed only to get hybrid classes to try another role. This was an attempt to fix long queues for dps.

    Honestly there isn't some sort of magical fix for this problem like so many people seem to think. It's not like Blizzard can force people to start playing tanks or healers, and be good at it.

    Also, "Declaring it a failure for not doing what it wasn't supposed to do"? If it wasn't supposed to fix long queue times (which it was attempting to do), then what was it trying to do? Blizzard wouldn't put this feature in just to make people think about maybe possibly trying a different role. There was a bluepost about this whole thing, I can't find it right now, but I know it was talked about.

    That aside, yeah, probably not a failure. Not yet anyways. I tend to exaggerate things quite a bit, and it probably didn't help that I've had some bad pugs when queuing for CtA. Which really just amounts to being selfish, I think; I wanted cool shit from this bag for putting up with awful players, and when it yielded none it ended up being a waste of time. I don't solo queue for dungeons while tanking, the bag was the only reason I did.

    Dibby on
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    Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
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    GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Arivia wrote: »
    I guess. It's just blah to waste two points on that, especially when the point of redoing the talents was to get rid of this kind of marginal stuff.

    You couldn't be more wrong. The point of the talent revamp was to make it possible to take "marginal" talents like Field Dressing. In the old system you couldn't because you would have to give up a +DPS talent for it.

    Whenever you don't have two free talent points for QoL stuff after taking all the "mandatory" points in two tiers, Blizz did it wrong.

    Grobian on
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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I would guess the queue times creep up as the week goes on too and more tanks get VP capped. I know I stopped queueing once I was capped.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    HerothHeroth Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I would guess the queue times creep up as the week goes on too and more tanks get VP capped. I know I stopped queueing once I was capped.

    I hadn't thought of this, good point...

    I guess i'll try wednesday prime-time on my server, see if thats any better.

    Heroth on
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    TurksonTurkson Near the mountains of ColoradoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Heroth wrote: »
    So has anyone else noticed an increase in queue times? in ZA/ZG atleast? on my server i noticed a drop from 25-30min queues down to 10-15min queues when 4.1 first went live, but now they've creeped up again to 25-30 (hinting more to 30) minute queues...


    At first i thought it was just the time i happend to log on, but now i've been logged on in my servers 'prime' and pretty much all in between and its still hovering around 25-30mins...

    The honeymoon is over. Most tanks have now realized how low the chance is for a mount and compared that to how much stress a typical pug is.

    Turkson on
    oh h*ck
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    Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Pugging heroics is a massive pain. 2 guys in our guild have just started tanking. One only hit 85 last week, while the other has been a healer. In Pugs, they just get grief, because they don't know everything from reading guides (so they wipe a few times learning things for the first time), and don't massively overgear content meaning that DPS have to lift their faces off their dps buttons and find those interupts and CC's.

    Both went off and started levelling alts. Why bother do something that isn't fun? I've partly helped them out by buying as much BoE tanking stuff as possible over the weekend, so they at least go in full or mostly full guild runs, but they're not touching the LFD system as tanks.

    Plus, that bag reward isn't working as intended; one guy in my guild has entered as a healer when it was call to arms 5 times and only gotten the bag once.

    Redcoat-13 on
    PSN Fleety2009
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    finally got the bug mount scepter

    now, I just have to grind out 150 more stupid tol'vir bits

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The bag reward should be randomly given to someone in the 5 man not just the tank or healer

    I have seen far too many bad healers and tanks {I saw a shaman today who when looked on the armoury was enhancement} the tanks are just awful I really saw something I did not think I would see again the arms warrior attempting to tank {do you have a shield? No? should have I brought one?} was said in Stonecore earlier

    I am queing for regular heroics and not the ZA/Zg after last weeks tank healer freak out I had to put up with

    Brainleech on
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    Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    the whole goal is to get more healers/tanks to queue up, so

    I doubt that will happen

    Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
    it was the smallest on the list but
    Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The whole guild achievement is what cause it to happen
    Guilds have become far too elitist it was common but not so before Cataclysm people would get bored or burned out and they would go do a different direction or disband

    I don't mind pugging as a tank or healer it's fun and frustriating.

    Brainleech on
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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    How can something be fun and frustrating?

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
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    BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Elldren wrote: »
    How can something be fun and frustrating?

    Don't pug much as a healer or tank do you?

    Brainleech on
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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Brainleech wrote: »
    Elldren wrote: »
    How can something be fun and frustrating?

    Don't pug much as a healer or tank do you?

    I do, but it's not much fun.

    Just frustrating.

    I'm one of those people who have decided that the CTA bribes are not worth the hassle of dealing with a bad pug, despite them being slightly outnumbered by good ones. I don't personally need anything else from heroics (including the new ZA/ZGroics) so a few dailies worth of gold and a vanity pet I could buy for 80s are not sufficient reward for the risk of getting a frustrating group.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I pugged about 5-6 ZA/ZGs as a tank last week. I'd say I had more good groups than bad, and I only had one or two that were so bad we didn't finish. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

    All told I VP capped two characters (a dk tank and a warlock) almost exclusively through ZAZG last week, and it was almost all pugs. It's really not that bad, you just have to have patience for people.

    Though there is the occasional group that is actually that bad.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    RiokennRiokenn Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I find tanking to be fun when the group is good and single targets my marks, but frustrating when a group doesn't pay attention to skull and X and just attacks whoever they want. Makes it a bit of a challenge to make the mobs still focus me when everyones DPSing different people.

    For now I just queue as DPS for the ZG heroics, not sure if I can tank those yet. Or maybe its cause I love doing 14k DPS as Fury War.

    Riokenn on
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    ElldrenElldren Is a woman dammit ceterum censeoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I pugged about 5-6 ZA/ZGs as a tank last week. I'd say I had more good groups than bad, and I only had one or two that were so bad we didn't finish. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal.

    All told I VP capped two characters (a dk tank and a warlock) almost exclusively through ZAZG last week, and it was almost all pugs. It's really not that bad, you just have to have patience for people.

    Though there is the occasional group that is actually that bad.

    Yeah, it's not a question of percentage of good to bad groups or anything like that. The point is I'm not getting terribly much out of it even if it is a good group, and for a bad group with multiple wipes it's a net loss for time invested.

    The risk/reward means that even though the risk isn't that great, it's still large enough and the gains so marginal that I'd rather take a guild group or simply not go at all and farm mats or run daily quests.

    Elldren on
    fuck gendered marketing
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    GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Personally I think the CTA bag should work for people queuing in groups up to three. It's stupid that, as someone mentioned above, a healer/tank combo queuing together aren't rewarded the way a tank queuing alone is, and it probably isn't helping.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
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    belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The "new" talent trees are miles better than the old ones. I was shocked when I resubbed and no longer had 55+ talent points. As a warlock, I remember the absolute joy of having to spec into destruction no matter what spec I was, to get bane, which for 5 points allowed me to crit for 200% instead of 150%.

    belligerent on
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    IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Personally I think the CTA bag should work for people queuing in groups up to three. It's stupid that, as someone mentioned above, a healer/tank combo queuing together aren't rewarded the way a tank queuing alone is, and it probably isn't helping.

    That on top of the part where they added guild challenges. Smaller guilds aren't running 40 guild heroics a week, they need those tanks/healers when they're online.

    The talent trees are a million times better now; In Wrath I respecced about once a patch to the new cookie cutter FOTM. Now I've gone through about 20 respecs just because those 2-5 "extra" points make that much of a difference. I had flashbacks to how awful they used to be when picking up Rift: I have no idea if 5% damage to this or 5% crit to these is better without doing some kind of analysis, and F that.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
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    The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Personally I think the new talent system really shines when you're down to those last 10 points and have access to all the trees. I love it and hate it at the same time, because at that point the talents aren't going to make or break you, but I just can't decide what cool fluff I want. I could reduce the cost of all my shouts to zero. Ohh, or I can give myself a damage buff every time I interrupt something. Or maybe I should take Field Dressing/Blood Craze/Second Wind for the ultimate self healing cocktail. It's exactly what Blizzard always wanted the system to be.

    The Wolfman on
    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
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    Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Anyone have any tips for grouping up on Phase 3 Al'Akir? I had a bunch of good attempts last night with my guild, getting through P2 with decent healer mana, 7 stacks of feedback on Al Akir, and everyone up, but in p3 everything just goes to shit.

    One of the healers kept getting constantly 1 shot at the beginning, by the lighting cloud I believe and we would randomly loose a couple more to the first cloud because people weren't on the same plane.

    Any tips for grouping up? I was at a loss aside from telling people to stack on the tank during P3 and people with lighting rod to strafe right asap.

    It was really frustrating becuase we were doing so well on p2, which I think is supposed to be the hardest phase for him. Also I have the raid pop hero in p2 once we get 4-5 stacks of feedback.

    Smaug6 on
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    Basren DragonsnackBasren Dragonsnack Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Generally once you've gotten phase 3 on Al'akir the hard part of the fight is over.

    Your strategy looks right. Everyone stacks up and the person with lighting rod strafes away. When you get wind blasted make sure to move back closer to boss so you don't get caught in the cyclone thingy. Also make sure everyone still has the button set to lower you while in the air/water (I think the default is x) to move quickly move out of lightning clouds.

    I'm assuming you're tossing a mark on your tank so people can easily find him to stack?

    Other then that I think its just practice, practice practice. A lot of people aren't very used to fighting in 3 dimensions so there's bound to be a little confusion at first. The good news is...you're really really close.

    Basren Dragonsnack on
    PSN: Scotty85
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    IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Any tips for grouping up? I was at a loss aside from telling people to stack on the tank during P3 and people with lighting rod to strafe right asap.
    That's pretty much it right there, it's just a matter of people getting used to the 3D movement. He also does a knockback so people need to keep panning their camera to make sure they're not like 30 yards behind the rest of the group.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Anyone have any tips for grouping up on Phase 3 Al'Akir? I had a bunch of good attempts last night with my guild, getting through P2 with decent healer mana, 7 stacks of feedback on Al Akir, and everyone up, but in p3 everything just goes to shit.

    One of the healers kept getting constantly 1 shot at the beginning, by the lighting cloud I believe and we would randomly loose a couple more to the first cloud because people weren't on the same plane.

    Any tips for grouping up? I was at a loss aside from telling people to stack on the tank during P3 and people with lighting rod to strafe right asap.

    It was really frustrating becuase we were doing so well on p2, which I think is supposed to be the hardest phase for him. Also I have the raid pop hero in p2 once we get 4-5 stacks of feedback.
    How are you guys losing anyone to the first cloud? As soon as P3 starts, everyone should be holding down their jump button until they're at the maximum altitude. Everyone should be on exactly the same plane for the first cloud since there's no guesswork involved in maxing out. Is the appearance of the thunder cloud not being called soon enough for people to drop down (only about an 8 yard drop is necessary). And just make sure everyone gets back to about the same height after a wind blast since those knock you down a little.

    Also, make sure the person who gets the debuff is moving out a good 25 yards or so from the group. It has a pretty hefty radius.

    forty on
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    Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    forty wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Anyone have any tips for grouping up on Phase 3 Al'Akir? I had a bunch of good attempts last night with my guild, getting through P2 with decent healer mana, 7 stacks of feedback on Al Akir, and everyone up, but in p3 everything just goes to shit.

    One of the healers kept getting constantly 1 shot at the beginning, by the lighting cloud I believe and we would randomly loose a couple more to the first cloud because people weren't on the same plane.

    Any tips for grouping up? I was at a loss aside from telling people to stack on the tank during P3 and people with lighting rod to strafe right asap.

    It was really frustrating becuase we were doing so well on p2, which I think is supposed to be the hardest phase for him. Also I have the raid pop hero in p2 once we get 4-5 stacks of feedback.
    How are you guys losing anyone to the first cloud? As soon as P3 starts, everyone should be holding down their jump button until they're at the maximum altitude. Everyone should be on exactly the same plane for the first cloud since there's no guesswork involved in maxing out. Is the appearance of the thunder cloud not being called soon enough for people to drop down (only about an 8 yard drop is necessary). And just make sure everyone gets back to about the same height after a wind blast since those knock you down a little.

    Also, make sure the person who gets the debuff is moving out a good 25 yards or so from the group. It has a pretty hefty radius.

    We have been working from the bottom up, so people keep getting zapped by the lowed cloud. If you go all the way to the top is there no cloud? And can you just start at max hieght then work your way down?

    If so that would help a lot.

    Smaug6 on
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    TylanthusTylanthus Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    You can buy yourself a lot more time by planning your movement so that the first clouds despawn as you need more room. Starting with the first two at the top of al'akir then dropping all the way to the bottom can be a nice strategy.

    Tylanthus on
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    fortyforty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    We have been working from the bottom up, so people keep getting zapped by the lowed cloud. If you go all the way to the top is there no cloud? And can you just start at max hieght then work your way down?

    If so that would help a lot.
    Correct. There is an invisible ceiling on phase 3, but there's no cloud up there like there is near the bottom. Being at the bottom and moving up is much more dangerous due to the way the wind blast works.

    forty on
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