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[WOW] [CHAT] thread. 4.2 on the PTR, time to chuck woodland animals.

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Posts

  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Paragon wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't get it. How bad is that change? It doesn't seem bad. Maybe you're playing the game wrong and expending too much mana? It's always the developer's fault, it's never the player's fault.

    There's being upset with a nerf, and then there's this. Go take a chill pill.

    Are you fucking kidding me? Do you even have a Shaman? You're going to start calling people bad players when you're completely ignorant about what's going on?

    The problem here is that Blizzard can't do ANYTHING EVER in baby steps. Oh, that thing seems powerful, let's cut it in half and see what happens! It is lazy to the point of ridiculousness; hire in people who play the classes you nerf for god's sake, Blizzard.

    If Shaman at least retained the 400% spirit themselves while nerfing the effects on others I'd STILL be unhappy because of the shitty ass regen Shamans have compared to, say, my freaking Priest. The fact that they are nerfing it shows such astronomical levels of ignorance about their own game that it absolutely warrants people being tremendously upset.

    I play enhancement shaman, my mana regen seems fine!

    ...That's...not at all the same thing.
    "I think Arcane DPS is a bit low."
    "I play Fire and my DPS is fine, clearly this is not an issue!"

    That would exactly be the point; I don't play a resto shaman (and in fact healing is the one thing in the game I haven't touched in doing). So no I don't understand the impact of the change. But it doesn't affect me, and I wonder if people are overreacting because their favored spec is being affected. People get sensitive and attached.

    Henroid on
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't get it. How bad is that change? It doesn't seem bad. Maybe you're playing the game wrong and expending too much mana? It's always the developer's fault, it's never the player's fault.

    There's being upset with a nerf, and then there's this. Go take a chill pill.

    Well, Blizzards method of tweaking stuff tends to be either "Make it the next big thing" or "cripple it uselessly". Moreso if it's related to PvP (in which case if it's good, expect it to be nerfed into the ground. If it's bad, expect to never get away from it again.)

    I've never, ever, ever had that mindset with changes made to this game. I mean I recognize when things get buffed to be super badass, but nothing has ever broken the game for me to make a class unfun or unplayable. I am relatively casual with my involvement in the game content so I guess I don't share the "I MUST SUCCEED" mentality.

    "We must succeed."
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    Dac on
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    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • The Muffin ManThe Muffin Man Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Shaman have been the black sheep of healers throughout the expansion. At first, our heals were fairly gimped compared to others, now our regen.

    Also:
    I am relatively casual with my involvement in the game content so I guess I don't share the "I MUST SUCCEED" mentality.
    This is a load of shit.
    I'm casual, too, but that doesn't mean I think it's necessary to make Ring of Frost go back to its' beta levels of useless by giving it essentially a 5 second cast time.

    The Muffin Man on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't get it. How bad is that change? It doesn't seem bad. Maybe you're playing the game wrong and expending too much mana? It's always the developer's fault, it's never the player's fault.

    There's being upset with a nerf, and then there's this. Go take a chill pill.

    Well, Blizzards method of tweaking stuff tends to be either "Make it the next big thing" or "cripple it uselessly". Moreso if it's related to PvP (in which case if it's good, expect it to be nerfed into the ground. If it's bad, expect to never get away from it again.)

    I've never, ever, ever had that mindset with changes made to this game. I mean I recognize when things get buffed to be super badass, but nothing has ever broken the game for me to make a class unfun or unplayable. I am relatively casual with my involvement in the game content so I guess I don't share the "I MUST SUCCEED" mentality.

    Its just when something is already frustrating and the the patch notes come along and seem to make it worse, its very depressing.

    If mana regen was kind of a non issue or wasn't really pressing in terms of thoughput priority it would be fine. But in a raid I am constantly worried about my mana level and trying to get throughput without burning too much of it.

    I know that Blizzard wants healing to be about meaningful choices and making a decision, but compared to healing on my druid its 1000 times more stressful as a resto shammy.

    Resto druids make choices as well, but played well you basically can get away with using 30% of your mana bar in some fights. That same fight as a resto shammy, if played well means you end with 30% or less often times. Very frustrating and much more stressful.

    With a more casual approach to game content, this might not be a problem for you. So please try and be more empathetic instead of telling people they are playing their class wrong.

    EDIT: Also consider that most people in raiding have one "main", i.e. their character that is most geared and fits in a particular raid comp. Its hard to just say, meh, I think i will heal on my heroic gear alt now and give it up. So attachment may not be the right word, but people are definately threatened when thier main spec is getting some of its mechanics fucked with.

    Doubly so if you were a resto shammy in 10 mans and have all of your gear for haste/mastery. Its not like you can just pick up a crit set and say yay! Everything solved.

    Smaug6 on
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  • ParagonParagon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    That would exactly be the point; I don't play a resto shaman (and in fact healing is the one thing in the game I haven't touched in doing). So no I don't understand the impact of the change. But it doesn't affect me, and I wonder if people are overreacting because their favored spec is being affected. People get sensitive and attached.

    Great, so it's just you making assumptions, then. I play every class, which gives me some unique insights in how things work for other classes; Shaman is not my precious favorite. In fact, my aforementioned Priest is probably my favorite right now because smite healing heroics is not anywhere near as stressful and frustrating as Shaman and allows me to outdps low-geared people on fights like Commander Ulthok.

    Paragon on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Paragon wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    That would exactly be the point; I don't play a resto shaman (and in fact healing is the one thing in the game I haven't touched in doing). So no I don't understand the impact of the change. But it doesn't affect me, and I wonder if people are overreacting because their favored spec is being affected. People get sensitive and attached.

    Great, so it's just you making assumptions, then. I play every class, which gives me some unique insights in how things work for other classes; Shaman is not my precious favorite. In fact, my aforementioned Priest is probably my favorite right now because smite healing heroics is not anywhere near as stressful and frustrating as Shaman and allows me to outdps low-geared people on fights like Commander Ulthok.

    If Blizzard made a bad change to enhancement, like cut the chance for the mana-regen proc in half, I'd be upset, but I wouldn't be wishing bad things on the company.

    The whole point of what I'm saying is, it's a fucking video game, calm the fuck down. Go work on your career.

    Henroid on
  • DacDac Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Again, you guys are getting your shit worked up over the Mana Tide change while ignoring the other one that will mitigate the loss - if not outright turn it into a gain with proper stat prioritization.

    Dac on
    Steam: catseye543
    PSN: ShogunGunshow
    Origin: ShogunGunshow
  • OptyOpty Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I love when people lose their shit on early patch notes. What's the point of nerdraging and frothing at the mouth this early? How about you look over the entire notes and figure out exactly how the current change will affect things and then calmly celebrate or decry the change. When it gets closer to being released you can revert to being hysterical if you want, but right now it's like you're standing in the road screaming at a car 4 blocks away heading towards you only for it to turn off onto a different street before it gets anywhere close to you.

    Opty on
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Water Shield has had its internal cooldown reduced to 3.5 seconds, once again matching other shields. The amount of mana restored when Water Shield procs has been reduced by 50%.

    Improved Water Shield has been redesigned and renamed Resurgence. When Water Shield is active, Resurgence causes critical direct heals to restore mana (Resurgence rank 2 is roughly equal to 150% of the old Improved Water Shield value when a Healing Wave or Greater Healing Wave critically hits, and scaled down accordingly for faster or multi-target spells).

    Mana Tide now grants 200% of the caster's Spirit, down from 400%.
    Sounds like the mana regen method is being changed, not just the numbers.

    Henroid on
  • Seattle ThreadSeattle Thread Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm not surprised by the Mana Tide nerf. Yes, you're essentially getting half of your mana back... at this gear level. Give it a go through this next raid tier, and our Spirit levels will be higher, meaning that much more mana gained through the totem... and at T13, who knows?

    Even though our mana and spirit pools will grow at each tier, our spell costs will not. Unless they design fights that require healers to literally spam their biggest, least-efficient heal (which I doubt they will, considering the whole "strategic healing" philosophy they've been touting), then ultimately the Mana Tide change won't be a nerf at all.

    Seattle Thread on
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  • DibbyDibby I'll do my best! Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Makershot wrote: »
    I'm not surprised by the Mana Tide nerf. Yes, you're essentially getting half of your mana back... at this gear level. Give it a go through this next raid tier, and our Spirit levels will be higher, meaning that much more mana gained through the totem... and at T13, who knows?

    Even though our mana and spirit pools will grow at each tier, our spell costs will not. Unless they design fights that require healers to literally spam their biggest, least-efficient heal (which I doubt they will, considering the whole "strategic healing" philosophy they've been touting), then ultimately the Mana Tide change won't be a nerf at all.

    Pretty much this. The Mana Tide nerf is not something you will be experiencing in current content. It's not being hotfixed in, it's coming in 4.2.. You know, when Firelands is also hitting. You cannot say how something will end up working out until you actually experience it. And of course, this means experiencing it properly, in T12 level gear and on live servers. And I mean, assuming this change doesn't work out once 4.2 hits live, more likely than not they'll hotfix it to a different value.

    Anyways, this whole discussion is pretty silly. How about the other awesome stuff they're doing? Elemental is getting some love, especially for pvp it seems. Some interesting druid stuff, particularly Balance and Resto. Has anyone even talked about heals critting for 200% from 150%? I'm actually looking forward to that, should make it less binary for healer stats in some cases (e.g. Spirit and Haste are the best, reforge off all Mastery/Crit)

    Dibby on
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  • KafkaAUKafkaAU Western AustraliaRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    And of course, this means experiencing it properly, in T12 level gear and on live servers

    Whilst I fully understand the point raised by this arguement, T12 gear isn't going to fall into our laps the second 4.2 drops. We will still need to raid for a couple of months in our current gear to get gear to offset this change.

    KafkaAU on
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  • ParagonParagon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    And of course, this means experiencing it properly, in T12 level gear and on live servers

    Whilst I fully understand the point raised by this arguement, T12 gear isn't going to fall into our laps the second 4.2 drops. We will still need to raid for a couple of months in our current gear to get gear to offset this change.

    My main concern is not for the 359-372 shammies out there but for the ones with some 333's and a rep reward or two. Actually, no, it's when you're trying to enter the gear check that is the step above that; normal HCs can always be at the very least CC'ed or outgeared by the tank to make up for Blizzard's failing to balance resto shammie. In the step above normal HCs, the panther boss, for instance, is absolute hell to heal unless your group plays perfectly and already has fairly good gear. Even with an awesomely geared tank, you'll still fail if things don't go near perfect.

    Paragon on
  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    03:27:22 Paragon channels [Sky Is Falling].

    Arivia on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    People raging about Shaman mana reg: Please read the changes and our existing talents carefully. Our mana reg won't be more dependent on crit than now. IWS already procs on crits. The only change is that Resurgence now doesn't proc a WS orb but a flat amount depending on whatever spell you cast. This is because they nerfed WS orbs. Nerfing WS orbs is a PvP change and won't even be felt at all in PvE.

    Also note that it says right there that Rresurgence procs will give more mana than IWS procs. So if you change nothing at all about your gear when 4.2 hits, you'll have a better mana reg.


    The Mana Tide nerf hits every healer in the game for exactly the same amount. Yes, you will feel it, but Makershot explained why it had to happen at some point.


    In conclusion: Stop raging, start thinking.



    /edit: Paragon, if you are saying, that Shaman healers right now are somehow worse than the other healers and not even good enough to heal heroic dungeons, then I don't know what to tell you, except: they're not.

    Grobian on
  • Redcoat-13Redcoat-13 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The elemental changes / glyphs / 4 piece set bonus are pretty sweet.

    Yeah it's all fun and games to heal in a BG, but sometimes you get fed up with healing not great dps, and you just want to hit people in the face with Lightening bolts.

    Redcoat-13 on
    PSN Fleety2009
  • Fig-DFig-D Tustin, CA, USRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Paragon wrote: »
    KafkaAU wrote: »
    And of course, this means experiencing it properly, in T12 level gear and on live servers

    Whilst I fully understand the point raised by this arguement, T12 gear isn't going to fall into our laps the second 4.2 drops. We will still need to raid for a couple of months in our current gear to get gear to offset this change.

    My main concern is not for the 359-372 shammies out there but for the ones with some 333's and a rep reward or two. Actually, no, it's when you're trying to enter the gear check that is the step above that; normal HCs can always be at the very least CC'ed or outgeared by the tank to make up for Blizzard's failing to balance resto shammie. In the step above normal HCs, the panther boss, for instance, is absolute hell to heal unless your group plays perfectly and already has fairly good gear. Even with an awesomely geared tank, you'll still fail if things don't go near perfect.

    Mana Tide was already getting to the point of providing ridiculous mana regen for high-end raiders. Basically you could have a Shaman "stack" spirit to an extent (spirit on-use trinkets, spirit enchants) pop trinkets and toss down mana tide to give the raid much more mana than was intended for this raiding tier.

    Mana regen in fights where you could only use Mana Tide once or twice *should* remain about the same. The new Improved Water Shield is no longer based on a percentage chance to proc, but will activate on every direct heal critical. Assuming each jump of chain heal is still being counted as a direct heal, that could end up being a significant amount of mana being refunded.

    Fig-D on
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  • Doctor DetroitDoctor Detroit Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Who has 2 thumbs and finally (100ish runs) got the Reins of the Raven Lord?
    :^::^:

    Doctor Detroit on
  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Dac wrote: »
    ... Yeah let's look at the Mana Tide nerf and COMPLETELY IGNORE the 50% buff to "Improved Water Shield"... which isn't even based on Water Shield anymore.

    This sounds like they're trying to HELP Shamans, not nerf them, by not forcing us to RELY on Mana Tide. Sounds like they expect Resto to value crit even more - like it's going to be the prime stat, thanks to Acestral Awakening+Healing, Resurgence, and other proc-off-crit effects.

    Please stop FREAKING OUT without looking at the entirety of the notes. And also please stop freaking out because this shit is still weeks from being released.

    Jesus Christ.

    you forgot to mention the across the board buff to crit heals for all classes, which is totally awesome btw

    CasedOut on
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  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 Really, stupid? Brockton__BANNED USERS regular
    edited May 2011
    We had a guy last night that decided to fish for about 10 minutes before the raid and pulled up the turtle mount.

    Last night, I came into the raid tanking with Essence of the Cyclone and Leaden Despair and walked out with Vial of Stolen Memories and H-Symbiotic Worm. I gained 14k hp from those two trinkets. I also gained the ability to have a cooldown going for a full minute and a half. Barkskin -> Vial -> Survival Instincts -> Barkskin. It's pretty crazy to keep them rolling like that.

    JustinSane07 on
  • ParagonParagon Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Grobian wrote: »
    /edit: Paragon, if you are saying, that Shaman healers right now are somehow worse than the other healers and not even good enough to heal heroic dungeons, then I don't know what to tell you, except: they're not.

    No, not at all. I am saying, and others have said this too in this same thread, that it is harder to heal with Shamans because they do run out of mana faster at equal gear levels. Normal HCs can be tricky when you're just entering them, and as a Shammie it is harder. I was also saying that this is especially evident on the panther boss in ZG. Anyway, after some reading, I think I overestimated how useful mana tide is for the Shaman him\herself at lower gear levels. As Fig said, this change, with the added crit and resurgence, might not be as bad as I thought from the point of view of a lower ilvl Shaman. It just initially pissed me off because if there's one thing they don't need to do it's nerf healers more. This goes for the Holy Pally changes, too; they are balancing the wrong way.

    Paragon on
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't get it. How bad is that change? It doesn't seem bad. Maybe you're playing the game wrong and expending too much mana? It's always the developer's fault, it's never the player's fault.

    There's being upset with a nerf, and then there's this. Go take a chill pill.

    Well, Blizzards method of tweaking stuff tends to be either "Make it the next big thing" or "cripple it uselessly". Moreso if it's related to PvP (in which case if it's good, expect it to be nerfed into the ground. If it's bad, expect to never get away from it again.)

    I've never, ever, ever had that mindset with changes made to this game. I mean I recognize when things get buffed to be super badass, but nothing has ever broken the game for me to make a class unfun or unplayable. I am relatively casual with my involvement in the game content so I guess I don't share the "I MUST SUCCEED" mentality.

    If you don't heal, or raid, on a resto shaman, why don't you just go back to posting e-rp stories.

    No one knows how the revamped water shields is going to handle in the next tier of content, but people are going to start that tier in this tiers gear.

    Resto shamans are the 4th best healer in the game. Remember when they had to straight buff our heals by increasing the mastery by 10%?

    The reason they're changing this is because shamans can be so ineffective as healers that some top tier guilds were making them into mana batteries in 25 man (basically a fucked up Telluric currents crappy dps who stacked spirit for their mana tides every 3 minutes so that paladins and druids could heal more).

    If it's just a "fucking game" then why do you care what other people think about it? On paper, even with the change to Water shield, it looks like a nerf to a class that's already lagging behind the other 3 classes. Have you even seen Spirit link totem, either?

    belligerent on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The way the patch notes are worded

    "Improved Water Shield has been redesigned and renamed Resurgence. When Water Shield is active, Resurgence causes critical direct heals to restore mana (Resurgence rank 2 is roughly equal to 150% of the old Improved Water Shield value when a Healing Wave or Greater Healing Wave critically hits, and scaled down accordingly for faster or multi-target spells)."

    Makes me think its still like the old IWS talent, that different spells will have different chance to return mana when cast. For example as it is now, HS only has a 60% chance to return mana when you crit, while HW and GHW has a 100% chance to return mana when they crit heal. The wording, saying that it scales downn makes me think that it will keep the same percentage mechanics. Else you would just keep crashing waves up and use HS all day long to basically garuntee a 100% crit and the mana regen.

    A very important thing everyone forgets is that IWS in its current state does not scale with gear. Unless they change to a flat %return of mana pool, its still going to not be a great talent. Of course it does scale somewhat with crit, but its much less dynamic than other classes mana returns.

    Looking at other classes regen, disc priest shield absorb returns a percentage of mana which scales with gear and druids get more clearcasting procs with each percent of haste. Innervate also scales with gear.

    I agree that the mana tide change was made in response to higher tiers of gear, but I still think that the solution, giving 3k mana per crit heal to the shaman, does not balacne it out.

    Looking at the Frost DK changes, people have told me that its a puzzling reduction in damage. I don't play a frost DK, so I don't know enough to comment on it, let alone tell that person to "Take a chill pill" Or "Maybe you are playing wrong".

    I still think they will revert the change so that shamans will get close to the full benefit of mana tide totem for themselves, but that the raid and other party members will see a reduction maybe even less thant 200%. This would be in the vein of the druid innervate change.

    Smaug6 on
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  • DrHookensteinDrHookenstein Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    belligerent wrote:
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    I don't get it. How bad is that change? It doesn't seem bad. Maybe you're playing the game wrong and expending too much mana? It's always the developer's fault, it's never the player's fault.

    There's being upset with a nerf, and then there's this. Go take a chill pill.

    Well, Blizzards method of tweaking stuff tends to be either "Make it the next big thing" or "cripple it uselessly". Moreso if it's related to PvP (in which case if it's good, expect it to be nerfed into the ground. If it's bad, expect to never get away from it again.)

    I've never, ever, ever had that mindset with changes made to this game. I mean I recognize when things get buffed to be super badass, but nothing has ever broken the game for me to make a class unfun or unplayable. I am relatively casual with my involvement in the game content so I guess I don't share the "I MUST SUCCEED" mentality.

    If you don't heal, or raid, on a resto shaman, why don't you just go back to posting e-rp stories.

    No one knows how the revamped water shields is going to handle in the next tier of content, but people are going to start that tier in this tiers gear.

    Resto shamans are the 4th best healer in the game. Remember when they had to straight buff our heals by increasing the mastery by 10%?

    The reason they're changing this is because shamans can be so ineffective as healers that some top tier guilds were making them into mana batteries in 25 man (basically a fucked up Telluric currents crappy dps who stacked spirit for their mana tides every 3 minutes so that paladins and druids could heal more).

    If it's just a "fucking game" then why do you care what other people think about it? On paper, even with the change to Water shield, it looks like a nerf to a class that's already lagging behind the other 3 classes. Have you even seen Spirit link totem, either?

    You are well named.

    This change combined with the Water Shield change are clearly intended to even out. Believe it or not, the sky is not falling.

    DrHookenstein on
    "He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it." -Moby Dick
  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Looking at the Frost DK changes, people have told me that its a puzzling reduction in damage. I don't play a frost DK, so I don't know enough to comment on it, let alone tell that person to "Take a chill pill" Or "Maybe you are playing wrong".

    The funny thing about the Frost change is that it looks like a PvP nerf, but PvP DKs rarely use Obliterate. A PvE nerf doesn't make sense because as far as I'm told, Frost DKs are still pretty middle/bottom of the pack.

    It's great that people in my raid "understand why DKs are getting nerfed" because I consistently crush them, and I don't have the heart to tell them it's not me.

    Grundlestiltskin on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Grobian on
  • belligerentbelligerent Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Again, no one knows how the change to IWS is going to affect regen. Right now Crit is the worst secondary stat in ratings, although sometimes mastery is worst. Just to let you know, I'm not the one who said the sky was falling. I was, however, the one to get incensed at others belittling the poster who started the complaint. Right now, until we see the full extent of the changes with IWS, this is a straight nerf to our regen scaling. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't raid or understand the class mechanics.

    belligerent on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Grobian wrote: »
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Interesting. I still think it should scale with gear and return like 3% mana per crit or something along those lines. Flat returns will quickly be outpaced by %returns.

    Smaug6 on
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  • GrundlestiltskinGrundlestiltskin Behind you!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Grobian wrote: »
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Interesting. I still think it should scale with gear and return like 3% mana per crit or something along those lines. Flat returns will quickly be outpaced by %returns.

    Right, but mana costs don't change with gear. Your mana lasts longer as you get more mana overall. Scaling mana returns would be much harder to balance than flat ones, I'd guess.

    Grundlestiltskin on
    3DS FC: 2079-6424-8577 | PSN: KaeruX65 | Steam: Karulytic | FFXIV: Wonder Boy
  • HenroidHenroid Mexican kicked from Immigration Thread Centrism is Racism :3Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    If it's just a "fucking game" then why do you care what other people think about it?

    It's people's overreaction to a video game that I care about; seeing people that are otherwise decent get mad is weird, but getting mad at a video game to this extent is absurd. There's more important things to rage about in life.

    And by the way, since when have I written e-rp stories?! I resent that comment!

    Henroid on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Javen wrote: »
    It seems the mana issue wouldn't be so bad if they actually stuck to their original cataclysm deal of "heal smarter, not harder" mantra. Tanks can still go from full to nothing in no time flat, healers still had better use every single GCD possible or else people start dying, the whole dynamic seems pretty identical to Wrath, except much less effective now that mana regen is a very real issue.
    This. This right here. There's no triage to be done when there are abilities hitting 25 people for 80% of their health 12 seconds apart. Their vision worked really well when we were first stepping into heroic 5 mans in our cheater iLevel sets, beyond that I don't see much of a difference between H Magmaw and H Blood Queen by looking at Grid.

    I understand from a raiding standpoint why they're changing Mana Tide; We have our Shamans stack the shit out of Spirit and rotate MT to the point none of the other healers need regen and can stack for throughput. I don't agree that it's the right way to go about it, they could just cap the number of ticks/number of people it hits (like Hymn of Hope).

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Grobian wrote: »
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Interesting. I still think it should scale with gear and return like 3% mana per crit or something along those lines. Flat returns will quickly be outpaced by %returns.

    Right, but mana costs don't change with gear. Your mana lasts longer as you get more mana overall. Scaling mana returns would be much harder to balance than flat ones, I'd guess.

    All other healing classes have a percent based mana regen function. Shamans do not.

    Smaug6 on
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  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Again, no one knows how the change to IWS is going to affect regen. Right now Crit is the worst secondary stat in ratings, although sometimes mastery is worst. Just to let you know, I'm not the one who said the sky was falling. I was, however, the one to get incensed at others belittling the poster who started the complaint. Right now, until we see the full extent of the changes with IWS, this is a straight nerf to our regen scaling. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't raid or understand the class mechanics.

    Yeah but didn't you see the huge buff crit is getting for all healers? Its literally a doubling of the bonus healing a crit provides, pushing it from 150% of a normal heal to 200% of a normal heal. I imagine crit is going to be A LOT more attractive for healers.

    CasedOut on
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  • CasedOutCasedOut Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Grobian wrote: »
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Interesting. I still think it should scale with gear and return like 3% mana per crit or something along those lines. Flat returns will quickly be outpaced by %returns.

    Right, but mana costs don't change with gear. Your mana lasts longer as you get more mana overall. Scaling mana returns would be much harder to balance than flat ones, I'd guess.

    All other healing classes have a percent based mana regen function. Shamans do not.

    Are you talking about emergency mana regen functions like divine plea?

    CasedOut on
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  • GrobianGrobian What's on sale? Pliers!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Again, no one knows how the change to IWS is going to affect regen. Right now Crit is the worst secondary stat in ratings, although sometimes mastery is worst. Just to let you know, I'm not the one who said the sky was falling. I was, however, the one to get incensed at others belittling the poster who started the complaint. Right now, until we see the full extent of the changes with IWS, this is a straight nerf to our regen scaling. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't raid or understand the class mechanics.

    How is Resurgence worse than IWS? It procs as often and it procs for more. It's straight better, without a doubt.

    Or are you only referring to Mana Tide?

    Grobian on
  • reVersereVerse Attack and Dethrone God Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Oh, wow, I just noticed that Raise Ally has been turned into a brez. That's so awesome.

    reVerse on
  • IshtaarIshtaar Fun is underrated. Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    reVerse wrote: »
    Oh, wow, I just noticed that Raise Ally has been turned into a brez. That's so awesome.

    Yep, and soulstone. It's awesome since our 8 Druids have gone down to 2 and been replaced with Priests.

    Ishtaar on
    FFXIV: Sith Lord ~ D3: Ish ~ Steam:Ishie
  • BrainleechBrainleech 機知に富んだコメントはここにあります Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    The soul stone as a battle rez is werid. I went to a heroic deadmines run the healer did not grab the rope due to "lag" and died the call was made quick ss them and the healer said you can do that now?

    Brainleech on
  • ToddJewellToddJewell Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Managed to get some new dps to our guild so we had a full raid last night. I finally got to heal heroic halfus, fun fight. Three shot him, one shot the rest of BoT [normal], then did magmaw/omnitron in quick fashion so we could get a few attempts in at heroic chimaeron before we called it a night.

    As a healer, fights like this stress me out the whole time, ha. We got in three attempts, the last one we got him to 30%. I think a lot of the healers were healing way too much, where my strategy is just to get everyone to about 11k and then try to just regen my mana. My problem comes with going to the group up phase, sinceI keep my group lower to begin with, I lost a couple people right at the start of feud from not getting their health up fast enough. I need to reach some happy medium with that I guess.

    ToddJewell on
  • Smaug6Smaug6 Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    CasedOut wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Smaug6 wrote: »
    Grobian wrote: »
    Resurgence will always proc on crits, only that HS and CH will proc less mana than HW and GHW. At least that's how I understood it.

    A crit HW now procs 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will proc 2250 mana. A crit HS now has a 60% chance to proc 1500 mana. In 4.2 it will always proc 1350 mana.

    Interesting. I still think it should scale with gear and return like 3% mana per crit or something along those lines. Flat returns will quickly be outpaced by %returns.

    Right, but mana costs don't change with gear. Your mana lasts longer as you get more mana overall. Scaling mana returns would be much harder to balance than flat ones, I'd guess.

    All other healing classes have a percent based mana regen function. Shamans do not.

    Are you talking about emergency mana regen functions like divine plea?

    Druids and priests also have normal percentage based mana returns. Pallys have thier one on CD.

    Shamans just have no percentage based mana regens.

    Also something to consider over the course of 3 min with percentage regen a druid will likely regen 51% of their mana pool, while a shaman relies on a 3 min CD which gives him/her 400% of his/her spirit, roughly equating to 30-40k mana depending on various gearing or around 35% of their mana pool, depending on gear. With the change, in current gear, you would see shaman's 3 min regen drop to 17% of thier mana pool, while a druid still regens 51% of thier mana pool. If you add in innervate as well, Druids can regen 71%!!!! of thier mana pool over 3 min.

    To balance this you have the new IWS + random water shield orbs popping, but even if this is as good as Malfurions gift/clearcasting (which I don't believe it is) you would see a druid regening roughly 55% more of their mana pool per 3 minutes than a resto shammy in similiar gear at this tier.

    In a raid setting the regen if slightly balanced as the shaman would benefit from the druids replinishment, but the druid would still get the regen from mana tide. Still though, druids are just regening a whole lot more mana then shammy over a 3 min period.

    Not to mention Druids have a 6% int buff and up to an additional 15% mana pool buff, skewing the raw numbers even more in the druids favor in terms of absolute mana regened.

    Smaug6 on
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