it splits your damage for half the cost of a bloodrazor and gives you MR which is often hard to itemize for early game
also it barely costs more than a BF sword and gives almost the same damage
oh and also it burns mana but that's pretty useless
Mana burn isnt always useless.
If there is an enemy olaf, wits end is excellent for shutting him down.
Wits end's mana burn is useless against any champ that ends up getting a high mana pool, but excellent against champs with low mana pools but need to use their cheap (in mana cost) abilities. Olaf is just a prime example of a champion that gets severely hurt by trying to fight anyone with wits end.
it splits your damage for half the cost of a bloodrazor and gives you MR which is often hard to itemize for early game
also it barely costs more than a BF sword and gives almost the same damage
oh and also it burns mana but that's pretty useless
Mana burn isnt always useless.
If there is an enemy olaf, wits end is excellent for shutting him down.
Wits end's mana burn is useless against any champ that ends up getting a high mana pool, but excellent against champs with low mana pools but need to use their cheap (in mana cost) abilities. Olaf is just a prime example of a champion that gets severely hurt by trying to fight anyone with wits end.
okay but how often are you going to be focusing olaf on your wits-end champ to the extent that you actually remove ALL of his mana before he's used the skills he wants to use
I just bought one as irelia laning against malzahar and every time I blinked to him it cost him just as much mana as it cost me, but outside of laning I just liked it for the magic damage/mr/as
After 4 games with Trist, I wouldn't put her in the "OP" range, but she toes the line at times.
I'm completely loving this little smurf bitch. Noc pushing my tower? Oh hai. E, W over your ass, R you back into my tower, Q you down. Does that turf smell good Noc? BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO TASTE IT ALL DAMN GAME.
Priest on
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RentI'm always rightFuckin' deal with itRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
trist is not anywhere near OP
she's just an amazingly good ranged carry
also judging a champ by how they play in bot games is...not indicative of how they actually play
like
if i play annie v bots, i own faces. annie in a real game? not so much
No mention of Lee changes though. =\ I can only hold this 10000IP for so long.
I cashed in my stash on Rune Page #6 earlier when I got tired of disassembling and reassembling my third depending on who I wanted to jungle with. Now I'll have to wait on Brand.
Auralynx on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
No mention of Lee changes though. =\ I can only hold this 10000IP for so long.
What are you talking about?
They already hotfixed his ratios and said that at the very least his Q would be adjusted (speed & hitbox) this patch.
Well, they weren't very in depth with what they planned to do with Q. After how underwhelming he was, you'd think that they would have mentioned at least to repeat "Lee Sin, The Blind Monk" about 5 times or so. At least some joke about how they overnerfed him for release.
After 4 games with Trist, I wouldn't put her in the "OP" range, but she toes the line at times.
I'm completely loving this little smurf bitch. Noc pushing my tower? Oh hai. E, W over your ass, R you back into my tower, Q you down. Does that turf smell good Noc? BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO TASTE IT ALL DAMN GAME.
My only complaint with Trist is that you can't level her explosive shot without pushing the lane. Which is a shame because explosive shot is at its strongest during laning as a harass / throw on them when they potion and laugh.
So I end up not taking any points in e until I have to.
Doran's blade opener, arpen reds quints flat ad yellows blues
ignite ghost
go brutaliser, bloodthirster, defensive items if necessary, stack ad like a bawss
you're basically a highly mobile burster, anticarry/assassin
you have some of the highest burst in the game at level 6, especially if you can get your q off at point blank.
Oh, well I don't have the AD yellows or blues. I'll have just enough for a runepage and a 6300.....or if I didn't like Lee almost enough to build your RAIZ page.
übergeek on
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
You don't even need the ad blues yellows, it's only like 6 ad lol
cdr blue and armour yellow probably better general purpose anyway
I still don't understand how you magically avoid using Lee's Teemo-style ultra-taunt.
kung fu 2 strong
surrealitycheck on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
No mention of Lee changes though. =\ I can only hold this 10000IP for so long.
What are you talking about?
They already hotfixed his ratios and said that at the very least his Q would be adjusted (speed & hitbox) this patch.
Well, they weren't very in depth with what they planned to do with Q. After how underwhelming he was, you'd think that they would have mentioned at least to repeat "Lee Sin, The Blind Monk" about 5 times or so. At least some joke about how they overnerfed him for release.
alright let's get some flat numbers outta the way
9 flat armor yellows nets you 12.69 armor
scaling gives 1.35 at lvl 1 and 24.3 at 18
cloth armor gives 18 armor
madreds gives 23 and wriggles gives 30
nocturne starts the game with 17 armor and gains 3.5 per lvl, giving him 76.5 base at 18
9 flat dodge runes provide 6.75% dodge
alright
his BASE DR at lvl 1 naked is 14.53%
with just flat 22.89% (increase of 8.36%)
with cloth armor 25.93%
with cloth and runes 32.29% (the runes provide rough increase of 6.3%)
it's at this point flat armor runes already provide a lower benefit than dodge runes do
now I'll do the maths for lvl scaling runes
base naked at 18 is 43.34%
with runes 50.2%
with wriggles(which you should have because fucking seriously) is 52.57%
with both runes and wriggles 56.67 (only a 4.1% increase over just wriggles)
the dr get's worse the more armor items you buy
so, there you go, dodge is flat better
also note, nocturne has some of the lowest starting armor of standard junglers, and the higher the base armor, the worse armor runes are
Well... I'm almost scared to play another game. A 5 game winning streak probably puts me in the bracket where I start playing against better players or get grouped with people napping on their keyboards. It has felt good though after days of losing.
I am enjoying someone's advice though that I forget the exact wording but the punchline is that I've been playing Xin and ignoring when my team is bad. Only 3-2 with him but I always feel like I'm doing good things and it doesn't bum me out as much.
Well... I'm almost scared to play another game. A 5 game winning streak probably puts me in the bracket where I start playing against better players or get grouped with people napping on their keyboards. It has felt good though after days of losing.
I am enjoying someone's advice though that I forget the exact wording but the punchline is that I've been playing Xin and ignoring when my team is bad. Only 3-2 with him but I always feel like I'm doing good things and it doesn't bum me out as much.
Thats how I play Xin too, no worries!
Stand off in mid? Screw that, im gonna go push a lane somewhere, good luck mid people dont do anything dumb till they send someone after me
aka split pushin!
FlipprDolphin on
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
with cloth armor 25.93%
with cloth and runes 32.29%
You're not taking into account the relative damage taken.
Dodge only affects hits you would have taken.
If I'm at 95% armour mitigation, the 5% mitigation I gain going from 95-100% mitigation is a lot more than gaining, say, 5% dodge.
Going from 26-32% mitigation is actually an 8.5% reduction in damage taken - whereas the dodge runes only provide a 6.7% reduction in damage taken!
This is a very marginal difference though, and the point of dodge runes is to proc nimbleness anyway so
relative marginal damage versus total potential damage are not the same thing and you're conflating them
dodge provides a flat benefit on top of armor as well and is only found on barely desirable items as opposed to armor which can reach a ceiling of usefulness on certain desirable items
EDIT: you're conflating marginal increase and total values again
assuming 100 damage, that 4.1% armor increase that provides a marginal 8% increase is still only preventing 4.1 total damage
whereas the 6.1% dodge provides a 50% increase in damage prevented over the armor
Well... I'm almost scared to play another game. A 5 game winning streak probably puts me in the bracket where I start playing against better players or get grouped with people napping on their keyboards. It has felt good though after days of losing.
I am enjoying someone's advice though that I forget the exact wording but the punchline is that I've been playing Xin and ignoring when my team is bad. Only 3-2 with him but I always feel like I'm doing good things and it doesn't bum me out as much.
Thats how I play Xin too, no worries!
Stand off in mid? Screw that, im gonna go push a lane somewhere, good luck mid people dont do anything dumb till they send someone after me
aka split pushin!
That reminds me... with zerks, my w, a sword of the divine (stupid jax... although it doesn't seem like a bad item on xin in general) and ghostblade I was killing towers insanely quick.
surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Let's take an extreme example
I'm at 98% mitigation
going from 98-99% mitigation doubles my effective health pool
gaining 1% dodge does not
whereas the 6.1% dodge provides a 50% increase in damage prevented over the armor
I don't see how this can be true.
I take 100 hits each doing 100 damage base. I have 50% damage mitigation base.
So I take 50x100 5000 damage assuming no stuff. We're comparing opportunity cost of armour versus dodge.
The 4% mitigation from armour reduces the average damage taken per shot to 46 (I'm rounding values because lazy and cbf using calculator)
46x100 = 4600 damage taken
The 7% dodge means you take 93 shots for 50 instead
93x50 = 4650 damage taken
more damage taken
I don't see how what you are proposing makes sense unless you believe dodge is added to your mitigation as part of the armour calculation, rather than independently beforehand
surrealitycheck on
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PiptheFairFrequently not in boats.Registered Userregular
going from 98-99% mitigation doubles my effective health pool
gaining 1% dodge does not
whereas the 6.1% dodge provides a 50% increase in damage prevented over the armor
I don't see how this can be true.
I take 100 hits each doing 100 damage base. I have 50% damage mitigation base.
So I take 50x100 5000 damage assuming no stuff. We're comparing opportunity cost of armour versus dodge.
The 4% mitigation from armour reduces the average damage taken per shot to 46 (I'm rounding values because lazy and cbf using calculator)
46x100 = 4600 damage taken
The 7% dodge means you take 93 shots for 50 instead
93x50 = 4650 damage taken
more damage taken
I don't see how what you are proposing makes sense unless you believe dodge is added to your mitigation as part of the armour calculation, rather than independently beforehand
you're looking at dodge without armor combined and vice versa
my point is that you will reach a point WITHOUT ARMOR RUNES from items that contain armor wherein you gain a greater benefit from taking dodge runes rather than armor runes
Posts
are you trying to get invited to my barbecue?
YES
YES
YES
Mana burn isnt always useless.
If there is an enemy olaf, wits end is excellent for shutting him down.
Wits end's mana burn is useless against any champ that ends up getting a high mana pool, but excellent against champs with low mana pools but need to use their cheap (in mana cost) abilities. Olaf is just a prime example of a champion that gets severely hurt by trying to fight anyone with wits end.
okay but how often are you going to be focusing olaf on your wits-end champ to the extent that you actually remove ALL of his mana before he's used the skills he wants to use
I just bought one as irelia laning against malzahar and every time I blinked to him it cost him just as much mana as it cost me, but outside of laning I just liked it for the magic damage/mr/as
this, my prayer answered, he is now a normal champ.
I'm dead serious."
I'm completely loving this little smurf bitch. Noc pushing my tower? Oh hai. E, W over your ass, R you back into my tower, Q you down. Does that turf smell good Noc? BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO TASTE IT ALL DAMN GAME.
she's just an amazingly good ranged carry
also judging a champ by how they play in bot games is...not indicative of how they actually play
like
if i play annie v bots, i own faces. annie in a real game? not so much
I cashed in my stash on Rune Page #6 earlier when I got tired of disassembling and reassembling my third depending on who I wanted to jungle with. Now I'll have to wait on Brand.
he's an assbeater
What are you talking about?
They already hotfixed his ratios and said that at the very least his Q would be adjusted (speed & hitbox) this patch.
Then all the females in the game are going to be in their undies for a few seconds.
Well, they weren't very in depth with what they planned to do with Q. After how underwhelming he was, you'd think that they would have mentioned at least to repeat "Lee Sin, The Blind Monk" about 5 times or so. At least some joke about how they overnerfed him for release.
How are you building him? I have an old theoretical build laying around somewhere clsoe to how Phreak did it in the spotlight....let's see....
http://leaguecraft.com/builder/Lee%20Sin/?items=104,70,21,11,16,29&runes=36,36,36,36,36,36,36,36,64,63,63,63,63,63,63,63,63,63,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,98,62,62,54&masteries=3100440131300103030000000000002100000000000&level=18
No change there then lololol.
Also, any hatred for Annie is entirely unfounded. She's incredibly strong.
Doran's blade opener, arpen reds quints flat ad yellows blues
ignite ghost
go brutaliser, bloodthirster, defensive items if necessary, stack ad like a bawss
you're basically a highly mobile burster, anticarry/assassin
you have some of the highest burst in the game at level 6, especially if you can get your q off at point blank.
My only complaint with Trist is that you can't level her explosive shot without pushing the lane. Which is a shame because explosive shot is at its strongest during laning as a harass / throw on them when they potion and laugh.
So I end up not taking any points in e until I have to.
I still don't understand how you magically avoid using Lee's Teemo-style ultra-taunt.
Oh, well I don't have the AD yellows or blues. I'll have just enough for a runepage and a 6300.....or if I didn't like Lee almost enough to build your RAIZ page.
cdr blue and armour yellow probably better general purpose anyway
kung fu 2 strong
what
Annie will have to be in a 1-piece bathing suit
lemme find my math from the se thread
if you were laning you could put whatever you want in yellow
tundra doggy warwick or fire puppy warwick
I saw that math and was quite surprised.
Official PA Forums FFXIV:ARR Free Company <GHOST> gitl.enjin.com Join us on Sargatanas!
I'm dead serious."
I am enjoying someone's advice though that I forget the exact wording but the punchline is that I've been playing Xin and ignoring when my team is bad. Only 3-2 with him but I always feel like I'm doing good things and it doesn't bum me out as much.
Tundra, imo.
Get the add-on called Skin Selector
Lets you choose ANY riot skin and try it in the game
I made all the champs use unique/rare/one-time skins and it is pretty cool seeing the Olympic skins
I like the new fire one for Warwick as well
Thats how I play Xin too, no worries!
Stand off in mid? Screw that, im gonna go push a lane somewhere, good luck mid people dont do anything dumb till they send someone after me
aka split pushin!
This is relevant to my interests. Where should I be looking for it?
I'm not saying shes not strong
I'm saying that I suck with her in a normal game
Like I know she's probably the best ap burst champ in the game
You're not taking into account the relative damage taken.
Dodge only affects hits you would have taken.
If I'm at 95% armour mitigation, the 5% mitigation I gain going from 95-100% mitigation is a lot more than gaining, say, 5% dodge.
Going from 26-32% mitigation is actually an 8.5% reduction in damage taken - whereas the dodge runes only provide a 6.7% reduction in damage taken!
This is a very marginal difference though, and the point of dodge runes is to proc nimbleness anyway so
That's an over 8% decrease in damage taken. The dodge runes are still providing only a 7% roughly decrease in damage taken.
relative marginal damage versus total potential damage are not the same thing and you're conflating them
dodge provides a flat benefit on top of armor as well and is only found on barely desirable items as opposed to armor which can reach a ceiling of usefulness on certain desirable items
EDIT: you're conflating marginal increase and total values again
assuming 100 damage, that 4.1% armor increase that provides a marginal 8% increase is still only preventing 4.1 total damage
whereas the 6.1% dodge provides a 50% increase in damage prevented over the armor
That reminds me... with zerks, my w, a sword of the divine (stupid jax... although it doesn't seem like a bad item on xin in general) and ghostblade I was killing towers insanely quick.
I'm at 98% mitigation
going from 98-99% mitigation doubles my effective health pool
gaining 1% dodge does not
I don't see how this can be true.
I take 100 hits each doing 100 damage base. I have 50% damage mitigation base.
So I take 50x100 5000 damage assuming no stuff. We're comparing opportunity cost of armour versus dodge.
The 4% mitigation from armour reduces the average damage taken per shot to 46 (I'm rounding values because lazy and cbf using calculator)
46x100 = 4600 damage taken
The 7% dodge means you take 93 shots for 50 instead
93x50 = 4650 damage taken
more damage taken
I don't see how what you are proposing makes sense unless you believe dodge is added to your mitigation as part of the armour calculation, rather than independently beforehand
you're looking at dodge without armor combined and vice versa
my point is that you will reach a point WITHOUT ARMOR RUNES from items that contain armor wherein you gain a greater benefit from taking dodge runes rather than armor runes