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school is for pretentious assholes

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Posts

  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Koshian wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    in my last english exam ever I thought I did pretty well on the poetry bit

    got the exam back and got like 3/20 or something for that section, stupid arbitrary bullshit

    sciences majors...

    To be fair, there is a lot of arbitrary bullshit in English classes.

    I like to think I do well enough in them to speak with some minuscule measure of authority.

    The work itself has fair to good odds of being about something, having concrete meaning, all that.

    But what the teacher wants back is, sadly, not always related to the work itself.

    chiasaur11 on
  • AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    PiptheFair wrote: »
    DrDinosaur wrote: »
    The key to analyzing poems is to realize that it symbolizes death.
    What is "it"? Doesn't matter. It symbolizes death.

    waiting for godot fan, eh?

    we could hang ourselves!

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Koshian wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    in my last english exam ever I thought I did pretty well on the poetry bit

    got the exam back and got like 3/20 or something for that section, stupid arbitrary bullshit

    sciences majors...

    To be fair, there is a lot of arbitrary bullshit in English classes.

    I like to think I do well enough in them to speak with some minuscule measure of authority.

    The work itself has fair to good odds of being about something, having concrete meaning, all that.

    But what the teacher wants back is, sadly, not always related to the work itself.

    chances are you don't understand the work in question

    i just got done marking a bunch of stupid fucking exams, and most of them had the same tone as this post

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • KoshianKoshian __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    the whole internet has been acting this way lately, and i am like 99% sure its because of this picture making the rounds

    AzsV8.jpg

    its wrong & awful but reddit and other websites like that are catching on and expressing righteous indignation at literature for some reason

    Koshian on
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Why can't the curtains just be blue? I don't see that necessarily being wrong.

    Doobh on
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  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Shit like that is why I haven't taken an English class since in five years. Give me my numbers and my clear cut answers.

    Borommakot on
  • chiasaur11chiasaur11 Never doubt a raccoon. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    chiasaur11 wrote: »
    Koshian wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    in my last english exam ever I thought I did pretty well on the poetry bit

    got the exam back and got like 3/20 or something for that section, stupid arbitrary bullshit

    sciences majors...

    To be fair, there is a lot of arbitrary bullshit in English classes.

    I like to think I do well enough in them to speak with some minuscule measure of authority.

    The work itself has fair to good odds of being about something, having concrete meaning, all that.

    But what the teacher wants back is, sadly, not always related to the work itself.

    chances are you don't understand the work in question

    i just got done marking a bunch of stupid fucking exams, and most of them had the same tone as this post

    Fair enough.

    Sometimes I am totally off base in judging a work.

    Not thinking of my bad grades here. My bad ones are almost always earned. Thinking of good ones with glowing compliments where I knew I was randomly spouting bullshit.

    And I may have implied that was a majority when it's more a minority. But I have ran into some arbitrary lit classes, and arbitrary portions of generally good classes. Of course, some to most of those could be entirely my faults in perception.

    chiasaur11 on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    Dubh wrote: »
    Why can't the curtains just be blue? I don't see that necessarily being wrong.

    the problem is with the 'what the author meant' phrase

    you can never know what the author meant

    ever

    it's an incredibly basic fallacy

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • DrDinosaurDrDinosaur Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Well I mean
    If you are in school, chances are you're a pretentious asshole
    And as such cannot accept that perhaps somebody who has extensively studied a particular subject for the purposes of teaching it may have some insight into the symbols in a work that they themselves do not have
    Also because there's no way to tell what the heck the author meant and it's entirely possible the curtains were just fucking blue

    DrDinosaur on
  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Doesn't that work out to mean that the teacher also doesn't know what the author means and is pulling shit out his/her ass too?

    Borommakot on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    the basic problem with shit like that is that it assumes that english is like math, with a clear-cut algorithm that reliably comes to the same answer every time given the same set of data

    there is no right or wrong answer in english, only answers that are well-argued and not

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • satansfingerssatansfingers Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    the point isn't to divine what the author meant

    satansfingers on
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Dubh wrote: »
    Why can't the curtains just be blue? I don't see that necessarily being wrong.

    the problem is with the 'what the author meant' phrase

    you can never know what the author meant

    ever

    it's an incredibly basic fallacy

    Yeah, my eyes completely glazed over that part. I've only had, like, in my whole life, maybe one teacher that was insistent about an author's meaning.

    Doobh on
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  • DrDinosaurDrDinosaur Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    What was really fun was reading an excerpt from A Modest Proposal
    The parts that were played straight
    Then the teacher told us that we were idiots if we didn't pick up on the sarcasm
    And then a year later I read the essay in its entirety and noticed the final paragraphs, in which the sarcasm actually becomes clear
    And everything fell into place

    DrDinosaur on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Doesn't that work out to mean that the teacher also doesn't know what the author means and is pulling shit out his/her ass too?

    chances are the teacher is backing up their claim with evidence from the rest of the text

    although a lot of people think introductory english lit is about telling people what books are about, really it's about demonstrating ways to think about sets of knowledge and to find certain patterns given source material

    so when they're saying that blue curtains mean depression, they're also trying to get you to see that curtains cover a vantage point, that blue has connotations as a colour, and that often the best writing is the kind that you can't take at face value, because the enjoyment comes from thinking about aspects of the writing and coming to a realization about how they work within the broader story

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • AMP'dAMP'd Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    DrDinosaur wrote: »
    If you are in school, chances are you're a pretentious asshole

    thanks for playing

    AMP'd on
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I've never been a math or science person because I am terrible at both; but I always liked how there was a definite underlying truth.

    While on the other hand, I BSed my way through much of English, despite generally liking the subject. It was usually a matter of sussing out what the teacher wanted to see, and otherwise making an argument for whatever your 'point' was regardless of whether or not you believed in it. Within a month or two teachers had usually given out a couple of every 'type' of assignment that would be expected, and students developed a formulaic system for fulfilling them. Some of these assignment 'types' endured from year to year, and we became very good at being minimally creative in completing them, which was magnified when we got to working on them in groups.

    I don't know how beneficial or detrimental that latter point was. We completed our work much faster and got higher marks, but our work definitely became more homogeneous, despite active efforts to keep our writing from being so.

    Muse Among Men on
  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Doesn't that work out to mean that the teacher also doesn't know what the author means and is pulling shit out his/her ass too?

    chances are the teacher is backing up their claim with evidence from the rest of the text

    although a lot of people think introductory english lit is about telling people what books are about, really it's about demonstrating ways to think about sets of knowledge and to find certain patterns given source material

    so when they're saying that blue curtains mean depression, they're also trying to get you to see that curtains cover a vantage point, that blue has connotations as a colour, and that often the best writing is the kind that you can't take at face value, because the enjoyment comes from thinking about aspects of the writing and coming to a realization about how they work within the broader story

    Stuff like this just made me hate reading, just absolutely ruined books for me that I enjoyed before reading them for class. Every story doesn't need to be full of symbolism and allegory, sometimes a curtain is just a curtain.

    This is probably why no one invites econ majors to parties.

    Borommakot on
  • KoshianKoshian __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    yeah, that's the reason

    Koshian on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Borommakot wrote: »
    Doesn't that work out to mean that the teacher also doesn't know what the author means and is pulling shit out his/her ass too?

    chances are the teacher is backing up their claim with evidence from the rest of the text

    although a lot of people think introductory english lit is about telling people what books are about, really it's about demonstrating ways to think about sets of knowledge and to find certain patterns given source material

    so when they're saying that blue curtains mean depression, they're also trying to get you to see that curtains cover a vantage point, that blue has connotations as a colour, and that often the best writing is the kind that you can't take at face value, because the enjoyment comes from thinking about aspects of the writing and coming to a realization about how they work within the broader story

    Stuff like this just made me hate reading, just absolutely ruined books for me that I enjoyed before reading them for class. Every story doesn't need to be full of symbolism and allegory, sometimes a curtain is just a curtain.

    This is probably why no one invites econ majors to parties.

    i had a long post that got ate by a busy server.

    the short version:

    how would it ruin books for you? it's still there. you're free to read it however you want, except in a literature class, in which case you're actually paying them to tell you how to read it.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • ZonugalZonugal The Holiday Armadillo I'm Santa's representative for all the southern states. And Mexico!Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    So got an interesting demand from the production manager at the college radio station today. After my co-host & I did our two-hour show he told my co-host that we're going to need to make our two-hour show into a three hour-show. Now it is important to understand the history of my radio show.

    Two years ago we were originally on in the evenings from 8 to 10 p.m. This was a terrific time slot and we were building a really great fan-base for our product. Well with the start of last year we were moved to 7 to 10 in the morning. So we did that for for a year and were pretty disgruntled with it because it was worse in almost every way but as a talk-show at a college radio station you are treated like a red-headed stepchild. Well jump ahead to the start of this year when we were told that our radio show had to be cut down an hour because nobody wanted to listen for that extra hour and could be better utilized.

    So here we are, seven months later, going back to where we used to be. Except I'm not going to have that happen, I'm pretty much stonewalling the production manager on this and telling him to deal with his decision.

    Let us see how this unfolds...

    Zonugal on
    Ross-Geller-Prime-Sig-A.jpg
  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's hard to go back to a book like that without just associating it with a class that I hated. I think it might be more having terrible teachers in high school than anything else.

    Borommakot on
  • IsoldaeIsoldae Hats Off To JigglypuffRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    It's interesting to dissect a book and look at the curtains as meaning depression.

    But when I read a book for my own enjoyment I just take things at face value.

    Isoldae on
    xet8c.gif
  • DoobhDoobh She/Her, Ace Pan/Bisexual 8-) What's up, bootlickers?Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I'm fairly lazy with my book interpretation. Read it, enjoy it, crap out a paper and, on occasion, have a decent teacher ream me for sloppy work until I secrete quality.

    Doobh on
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  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Hey, Buttsniff McGillicutty (aka koshian), please be to responding to my criticism of materialism in the other thread.

    K thx

    PS: whatever happened to you and K-bomb coming down to visit?

    Callius on
    tonksigblack.png
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Sorry but you're all wrong.

    Blue curtains represent a terran player losing a game of SC2.

    Which is like a privileged kid losing at something for the first time in his life.

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • Romanian My EscutcheonRomanian My Escutcheon Two of Forks Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This is why I don't like academic literature.

    It's not about enjoying the work, it's about scouring it for theories and social commentary.

    And, of course, the novels that are studied are entirely composed of theories and social commentary, so the narrative is painfully obtuse, and not very fun to read.

    Then again, I might just be fed up of literary analysis after doing it for the last six years.

    Romanian My Escutcheon on
    [IMG][/img]
  • L|amaL|ama Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Koshian wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    in my last english exam ever I thought I did pretty well on the poetry bit

    got the exam back and got like 3/20 or something for that section, stupid arbitrary bullshit

    sciences majors...

    I got top marks on one of my essays for writing what I now realise was a preeeeeeetty misogynistic rant against celebrity culture in that same exam

    I wouldn't really call the markers the best judges of
    well, anything

    I've never been a math or science person because I am terrible at both; but I always liked how there was a definite underlying truth.

    heh

    that gets annoying after a while once you realise that yeah there is, but you can never actually know exactly what it is, just better and better approximations of it

    L|ama on
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    the work can be enjoyable and still have social commentary and theorist-friendly material. look at house of leaves. or, if you want to get fancy, lolita.

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Becoming a scientist for the certainty is like becoming a priest for the sex.

    Couscous on
  • Charles KinboteCharles Kinbote Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This is why I hate academic literature.

    It's not about enjoying the work, it's about scouring it for theories and social commentary.

    And, of course, the novels that are studied are entirely composed of theories and social commentary, so the narrative is painfully obtuse.

    Then again, I might just be fed up of literary analysis after doing it for the last six years.

    I think this is really dumb, and I think that the fact that you see "enjoying a work" and analyzing it as mutually exclusive says more about your capability to be a good reader than it does anything else

    also I'm interested to hear which books you thinks have "painfully obtuse" narratives

    Charles Kinbote on
    www.twitter.com/amazingwarlock
  • OrikaeshigitaeOrikaeshigitae Registered User, ClubPA regular
    edited April 2011
    L|ama wrote: »
    Koshian wrote: »
    L|ama wrote: »
    in my last english exam ever I thought I did pretty well on the poetry bit

    got the exam back and got like 3/20 or something for that section, stupid arbitrary bullshit

    sciences majors...

    I got top marks on one of my essays for writing what I now realise was a preeeeeeetty misogynistic rant against celebrity culture in that same exam

    I wouldn't really call the markers the best judges of
    well, anything

    I've never been a math or science person because I am terrible at both; but I always liked how there was a definite underlying truth.

    heh

    that gets annoying after a while once you realise that yeah there is, but you can never actually know exactly what it is, just better and better approximations of it

    markers don't give a shit

    we're also not allowed to pass judgement on a work, otherwise you'd have marks being docked for no reason at all

    if it was well argued, it did well

    Orikaeshigitae on
  • BorommakotBorommakot Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    Becoming a scientist for the certainty is like becoming a priest for the sex.

    Ha, jokes on you! I'm an economist.

    Wait...fuck!

    Borommakot on
  • KoshianKoshian __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    Callius wrote: »
    Hey, Buttsniff McGillicutty (aka koshian), please be to responding to my criticism of materialism in the other thread.

    K thx

    PS: whatever happened to you and K-bomb coming down to visit?

    in a bit

    we were fussin with our money and school stuff and we're not gonna be visitin til round PAX time. we got a room at the sheraton & passes bought now

    Koshian on
  • The Lovely BastardThe Lovely Bastard Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I like stories

    I can appreciate more

    I can analyze

    But I like stories

    This is my view on everything from literature to film to any form of entertainment

    The Lovely Bastard on
  • Muse Among MenMuse Among Men Suburban Bunny Princess? Its time for a new shtick Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    L|ama wrote: »
    I've never been a math or science person because I am terrible at both; but I always liked how there was a definite underlying truth.

    heh

    that gets annoying after a while once you realise that yeah there is, but you can never actually know exactly what it is, just better and better approximations of it

    Ha, yeah I know. Just . . . the principle of it, you know?

    Orik, I think you'd make for an interesting English teacher. Our small group of AP kids is just trudging through the course material with gritted teeth at this point. Many of us stopped reading for leisure as our English classes wore on.

    Running joke:

    Teacher: "So what is the book really about?"

    Us: "Humanity"

    Muse Among Men on
  • PiptheFairPiptheFair Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I like stories

    I can appreciate more

    I can analyze

    But I like stories

    This is my view on everything from literature to film to any form of entertainment

    tlb

    you and me

    PiptheFair on
  • TheStigTheStig Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    meanprof.gif

    TheStig on
    bnet: TheStig#1787 Steam: TheStig
  • CalliusCallius Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Koshian wrote: »
    in a bit

    we were fussin with our money and school stuff and we're not gonna be visitin til round PAX time. we got a room at the sheraton & passes bought now
    hells yeah.

    Callius on
    tonksigblack.png
  • KoshianKoshian __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    probs takin the train down because that appears to be the most hassle free way to cross the border with not super accurate documentation too

    Koshian on
This discussion has been closed.