zerkers are terrible on ash, she needs to maneuver around the battle field, avoiding assasins and the like, you can get attack speed else where, she needs swiftness boots. NEEDS THEM.
Minerva_SC on
"If a cherry pie filled cape is wrong, I don't want to be right.
I'm dead serious."
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
nope, my elo takes a nosedive again, 1200 is a pipe dream it seems
why do I constantly get the team that fails at everything? Like, it's true, they do always, with no exceptions, suck. I can't even remember the last time someone carried me.
nope, my elo takes a nosedive again, 1200 is a pipe dream it seems
why do I constantly get the team that fails at everything? Like, it's true, they do always, with no exceptions, suck. I can't even remember the last time someone carried me.
If anyone wants someone half decent to queue Normal games with (haven't finished my runes for Ranked), I play a pretty mean Ashe, Vlad, Heimer and Caitlyn. Username is Siegfreid, on most of the morning and late at night.
Le sigh. So it's another one of those me vs. internet moments.
The internet says that Ashe and Corki are the best ranged Carries. Ashe I completely understand, as his CC is quite strong. If I'm playing with coordinated friends, I typically play Ashe. In Solo Queue though, I find my teammates never, if ever, make use of her excellent CC, and with only mediocre escape (Shoot, Slow, Run, Shoot, Slow, Run), I like her less than Corki and Tristana.
I have trouble however seeing why Corki is lauded so undeniably better than Tristana.
I like Tristana because of the following:
- Reliable Escape (Though Corki has this too)
- Fantastic Gold Farming
- Method of Slowing opponents in 1v1 that is a great gap closer as well
- Excellent late-game range
- Healing Debuff that does Damage (Don't have to run ignite)
- Great Steroid
- Ult that does good damage while either being a CC (remove them from the fight by pushing them through a wall), or an assist-enabler (Jump and Rocket them back into your team)
I haven't played Corki as extensively, but I feel he has the following:
- Reliable Escape that does damage to chasers
- Reliable Blind
- Ult that does very high damage (if rockets are allowed to stack)
- AoE damage and armor reduction talent.
As far as I can tell, Corki gives up small amounts of gold-farming and control for different forms of control and slight damage. I can't directly find what makes him far and away better than Tristana.
Are there things that I'm not noticing that I should be about him? I love Trist to death, and would love to keep her around as my Carry of choice when not running Ashe for her CC.
Priest on
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
and it gets worse because now I was playing a fucking tank again
arrrrgg
Ashe isn't really a hard carry, she's much more support than she is carry, and relies almost entirely on her team to take advantage of the openings you create with her. She doesn't have any sort of physical attack steroid, so her late-game scaling is pretty poor, and therefore it requires a lot more gold for her to hit critical mass.
Trist V Corki. They both obviously have a lot of similarities in their kit, the most glaring problem with corki is that his range isn't good enough to keep him away from danger, but he does have plenty of damage to make up for it. I've seen them both done really well and really poorly to similar effect. Corki seems to have a bit better 5v5 poke, but trist is better at poking down towers when you've got people sitting underneath them.
Are there things that I'm not noticing that I should be about him? I love Trist to death, and would love to keep her around as my Carry of choice when not running Ashe for her CC.
Corki has better team battle poking and some anti-AD (blind).
As far as I can tell, Corki gives up small amounts of gold-farming and control for different forms of control and slight damage. I can't directly find what makes him far and away better than Tristana.
I wouldn't say he's "undeniably better" than Tristana, but there are reasons why he's considered a superb ranged carry:
- Nearly infinite, very high distance poke. Being able to poke down the enemy team to under half health before the team fight even starts is a huge advantage.
- Split Damage. Tristana offers a lot of this as well, but Corki it slightly better. I can't emphasize how key split damage is to winning games.
- Phosphorous Bomb and Gatling Gun. His kit in general is brilliant. His phosphorous bomb is anti-carry while his gatling gun is anti-tank, giving him flexibility on who he can target in team fights or how easily he can win a 1v1 scenario.
Just played a game as fiddle, was robbed of a penta-kill with crowstorm >.> There was a teamfight at the top, 4v5 and I was below the lane, so i crowstorm'd in, but someone took two of the kills before crowstorm or dark wind finished them off. still got the ace, but GAHHH
Both teemo games I've played have been first bloods... And coincidentally I just read his lore. Now it all fits together.
Also, Flippr will do. I think you mentioned your Maokai rune page before in another discussion.
I had a few questions though. I know he's mana starved a lot but I've learned to deal with his mana issues and dropped clarity after swearing to myself for a week that it was 100% required. I know 13 armor and 11mp/5 aren't huge numbers but wouldn't armor be a better stat early game, especially with the mp/5 not maxing out till 18?
Also general rune question... are blues just worse yellows?
The three different runes have a sort of general flow. Marks are best for physical offense, seals for defense, and glyphs for ability power offense. Those are not hard and fast rules, like magic pen marks and magic resist glyphs, but in general it holds true. So if you want ability power stuff, more mana, more ability power, more cool down reduction, glyphs are best. Quintessences are good for anything.
furlion on
Gamertag: KL Retribution
PSN:Furlion
0
KwoaruConfident SmirkFlawless Golden PecsRegistered Userregular
Anyone have any Ashe tips? I'm not doing particularly poorly and generally I have the lowest number of deaths on my team but I really want to get up my number of assist.
I am leveling W and then Q and then E usually when team fights start or if I max out W.
uh offensive masteries for extra critical strike.
A while ago my Ashe play changed form doing R>W>E>Q to E>R>W>Q. The gold ends up being a significant boon by mid game assuming you are sporting a hundred or so last hits. Get a point in q at some point.
As far as boots go, Ive dropped the idea of ever running boots of switftness on ashe in favor of berserkers.
Buy your first item based on what you are midding against. Because I'm not leveling W, I am not really focused on harrassing, just playing defensively and last hitting every minion I can. If you are definatly up against a physical based champion, grab a dorans shield as a first item, otherwise grab dorans blade. I run teleport/flash as well.
Main early game ashe is just lasthitting, and when you hit 6 to assist ganking top and bottom lanes with your ult. Get good at predicting enemy champ movement. There are 3 types of situations you want to shoot into.
Pushing- if the enemy champions are being reliably agressive, for example chasing your team.
Pulling- if the enemy champions are reliably running away from your allies, shoot to block their escape.
Stalemate- the situation in the lane is stalemated, double check the creeps before shooting to make sure the creep lines wont move, generally shoot just across the back of the caster minions.
A full 3 second stun is in most cases going to net a kill in a lane. This is a significant advantage ashe has over other mid champions, ashe can gain assist gold by never leaving lane, while still focusing on last hitting.
okay yeah most of this advice is wrong
ashe is an amazing harasser in mid. her w outranges nearly every other ability in the game and is great harassment. if you are going against someone in mid who ashe can counter (like sivir, for instance, or akali), you should be levelling your w primarily, because you can easily get early game kills with her with the assistance of a jungle gank
you should only be primarily levelling your e if you are against an unharassable lane opponent- say, mundo or leblanc or something. a mid opponent you can't win against you should be levelling your e just to focus on cs
your w scales the slow off your q, so if you're levelling your w you need to be levelling your q
in no circumstances ever should you take e over r. that is a horrid idea because your r is your source of burst damage in a teamfight in addition to being a great initiation
running zerkers over boots 3 or merc treads is awful. ashe has the slowest base move speed in the game (tied with fiddles) and needs the increased mobility or lower cc (hard cc is ashe's enemy) or she is fucked in teamfights. always, always always run either boots 3 or merc treads. maybe boots of mobo if you're really good at kiting, although you have no move speed steroid so it's still not a good idea
ashe is very nearly one of the champions that needs two escape summoners. if she's ganked she, again, has no move speed steroids (just a move speed debuff), so she can be in a bit of a rough spot without ghost and flash. I would recommend running those two (maybe if you're feeling ballsy exhaust and flash). Teleport's not a bad option on her but you'll probably find yourself dying to a gank you could've escaped if you had both summoners
for first buys i normally don't get doran's blade any more. it hinges on pushing your lane to get health back and imo is kind of a bad item to buy nowadays. I'd recommend running doran's shield over it. I'm really liking boots + 3 pots start tho- it gives you insane mobility, allows you to more easily dodge skillshots (And shuts sivir down), helps you escape ganks more easily, and let's you stay in lane for a long, long time
for first buys i normally don't get doran's blade any more. it hinges on pushing your lane to get health back and imo is kind of a bad item to buy nowadays. I'd recommend running doran's shield over it. I'm really liking boots + 3 pots start tho- it gives you insane mobility, allows you to more easily dodge skillshots (And shuts sivir down), helps you escape ganks more easily, and let's you stay in lane for a long, long time
What little my opinion matters at lvl 12, I really support this. Switching from Doran's Blade to Boots + Pots changed my game entirely when playing carries.
Anyone have any Ashe tips? I'm not doing particularly poorly and generally I have the lowest number of deaths on my team but I really want to get up my number of assist.
I am leveling W and then Q and then E usually when team fights start or if I max out W.
uh offensive masteries for extra critical strike.
A while ago my Ashe play changed form doing R>W>E>Q to E>R>W>Q. The gold ends up being a significant boon by mid game assuming you are sporting a hundred or so last hits. Get a point in q at some point.
As far as boots go, Ive dropped the idea of ever running boots of switftness on ashe in favor of berserkers.
Buy your first item based on what you are midding against. Because I'm not leveling W, I am not really focused on harrassing, just playing defensively and last hitting every minion I can. If you are definatly up against a physical based champion, grab a dorans shield as a first item, otherwise grab dorans blade. I run teleport/flash as well.
Main early game ashe is just lasthitting, and when you hit 6 to assist ganking top and bottom lanes with your ult. Get good at predicting enemy champ movement. There are 3 types of situations you want to shoot into.
Pushing- if the enemy champions are being reliably agressive, for example chasing your team.
Pulling- if the enemy champions are reliably running away from your allies, shoot to block their escape.
Stalemate- the situation in the lane is stalemated, double check the creeps before shooting to make sure the creep lines wont move, generally shoot just across the back of the caster minions.
A full 3 second stun is in most cases going to net a kill in a lane. This is a significant advantage ashe has over other mid champions, ashe can gain assist gold by never leaving lane, while still focusing on last hitting.
okay yeah most of this advice is wrong
ashe is an amazing harasser in mid. her w outranges nearly every other ability in the game and is great harassment. if you are going against someone in mid who ashe can counter (like sivir, for instance, or akali), you should be levelling your w primarily, because you can easily get early game kills with her with the assistance of a jungle gank
you should only be primarily levelling your e if you are against an unharassable lane opponent- say, mundo or leblanc or something. a mid opponent you can't win against you should be levelling your e just to focus on cs
your w scales the slow off your q, so if you're levelling your w you need to be levelling your q
in no circumstances ever should you take e over r. that is a horrid idea because your r is your source of burst damage in a teamfight in addition to being a great initiation
running zerkers over boots 3 or merc treads is awful. ashe has the slowest base move speed in the game (tied with fiddles) and needs the increased mobility or lower cc (hard cc is ashe's enemy) or she is fucked in teamfights. always, always always run either boots 3 or merc treads. maybe boots of mobo if you're really good at kiting, although you have no move speed steroid so it's still not a good idea
ashe is very nearly one of the champions that needs two escape summoners. if she's ganked she, again, has no move speed steroids (just a move speed debuff), so she can be in a bit of a rough spot without ghost and flash. I would recommend running those two (maybe if you're feeling ballsy exhaust and flash). Teleport's not a bad option on her but you'll probably find yourself dying to a gank you could've escaped if you had both summoners
for first buys i normally don't get doran's blade any more. it hinges on pushing your lane to get health back and imo is kind of a bad item to buy nowadays. I'd recommend running doran's shield over it. I'm really liking boots + 3 pots start tho- it gives you insane mobility, allows you to more easily dodge skillshots (And shuts sivir down), helps you escape ganks more easily, and let's you stay in lane for a long, long time
Every bit of this is correct. To add to it, if I can't get middle, I don't go ashe. I run boots and 3 pots every time as well, and laugh at any AD that gets a doran's blade. It requires too much autoattacking, hurts your last hitting, pushes the lane too much, and at early levels I can harass you FAR more than you can leech back.
For example, it takes probably 30+ hits to leech back my first crit to your face. And my first hit will always crit, thanks to ashe's passive. That's about 160 HP off the enemy right at the start.
Doran's may be better for midgame, but for early game it is worse by far.
Anyone have any Ashe tips? I'm not doing particularly poorly and generally I have the lowest number of deaths on my team but I really want to get up my number of assist.
I am leveling W and then Q and then E usually when team fights start or if I max out W.
uh offensive masteries for extra critical strike.
A while ago my Ashe play changed form doing R>W>E>Q to E>R>W>Q. The gold ends up being a significant boon by mid game assuming you are sporting a hundred or so last hits. Get a point in q at some point.
As far as boots go, Ive dropped the idea of ever running boots of switftness on ashe in favor of berserkers.
Buy your first item based on what you are midding against. Because I'm not leveling W, I am not really focused on harrassing, just playing defensively and last hitting every minion I can. If you are definatly up against a physical based champion, grab a dorans shield as a first item, otherwise grab dorans blade. I run teleport/flash as well.
Main early game ashe is just lasthitting, and when you hit 6 to assist ganking top and bottom lanes with your ult. Get good at predicting enemy champ movement. There are 3 types of situations you want to shoot into.
Pushing- if the enemy champions are being reliably agressive, for example chasing your team.
Pulling- if the enemy champions are reliably running away from your allies, shoot to block their escape.
Stalemate- the situation in the lane is stalemated, double check the creeps before shooting to make sure the creep lines wont move, generally shoot just across the back of the caster minions.
A full 3 second stun is in most cases going to net a kill in a lane. This is a significant advantage ashe has over other mid champions, ashe can gain assist gold by never leaving lane, while still focusing on last hitting.
okay yeah most of this advice is wrong
ashe is an amazing harasser in mid. her w outranges nearly every other ability in the game and is great harassment. if you are going against someone in mid who ashe can counter (like sivir, for instance, or akali), you should be levelling your w primarily, because you can easily get early game kills with her with the assistance of a jungle gank
you should only be primarily levelling your e if you are against an unharassable lane opponent- say, mundo or leblanc or something. a mid opponent you can't win against you should be levelling your e just to focus on cs
your w scales the slow off your q, so if you're levelling your w you need to be levelling your q
in no circumstances ever should you take e over r. that is a horrid idea because your r is your source of burst damage in a teamfight in addition to being a great initiation
running zerkers over boots 3 or merc treads is awful. ashe has the slowest base move speed in the game (tied with fiddles) and needs the increased mobility or lower cc (hard cc is ashe's enemy) or she is fucked in teamfights. always, always always run either boots 3 or merc treads. maybe boots of mobo if you're really good at kiting, although you have no move speed steroid so it's still not a good idea
ashe is very nearly one of the champions that needs two escape summoners. if she's ganked she, again, has no move speed steroids (just a move speed debuff), so she can be in a bit of a rough spot without ghost and flash. I would recommend running those two (maybe if you're feeling ballsy exhaust and flash). Teleport's not a bad option on her but you'll probably find yourself dying to a gank you could've escaped if you had both summoners
for first buys i normally don't get doran's blade any more. it hinges on pushing your lane to get health back and imo is kind of a bad item to buy nowadays. I'd recommend running doran's shield over it. I'm really liking boots + 3 pots start tho- it gives you insane mobility, allows you to more easily dodge skillshots (And shuts sivir down), helps you escape ganks more easily, and let's you stay in lane for a long, long time
I put down E before R because it doesnt matter
E, W, E, Q, E, R, E, W, E, W, R
If you are putting a point in E every time you CAN put a point in E both of these are true
E > R > W > Q
R > E > W > Q
See what I did there?
Also Rent it has been established that while attacking, berserkers gives you higher overall movespeed. Which is very important for ashe. Not to mention the boots are cheaper and lets you build into more important things sooner. I also didnt say take berserkers OVER merc treads, I just said take berserkers over boots of swiftness. Generally however, I use positioning not to get CC'd to hell. Even a 1 second stun reduced is still enough to get ashe killed the majority of the time.
My early game ashe focuses on farming, and farming, and farming. Typically i'm playing against people that dont play stupid and try to get in your face often, or ignore cs to harrass you. Volley pushes the lane against good opponents setting you up to get ganked. This is why I dont play the poke with volley early game, it invites a jungler to come out and kill you. I rather keep the lane in the middle where I can easily retreat to the tower without the aid of a summoner spell, and in the case of a sudden gank, flash right to my tower.
The point of dorans blade isnt to autoattack minions like an idiot either, just last hit as normal. It gives you extra health just in case someone does get in your face so you can win that early exchange. The lifesteal is neglegable and generally ignorable. The extra attack damage helps you get those last hits a little easier.
I do like the boots + 3 pots opening, it is definatly solid and lets you play far more aggressively. But as I'm playing ashe very passively and just winning safely (more cs, more gold, more assists) being able to take more burst damage is more important to me.
I do not recommend boots + pots on a squishy if you're facing a champion with high burst damage. You need something which increases your effective HP against their burst. Doran Blade can still work, but you need to have a plan to go back before level 6 to buy because your regen will be lacking. Doran Shield is better for sustained laning. But the best starting item is when you know what champion you're facing and can go cloth + 5 pots (versus physical) or null magic + 2 pots (versus magic). This gives you about as much effective HP as a Doran item and pots to boot.
Boots + pots is usually a good choice if you know you already have a strong advantage in your matchup and want the extra movespeed to aid in pressing that advantage. These situations are few, however, because you can't always predict who is going to lane against you and matchups which give you a strong advantage are not that common even if you can.
Also Rent, Ashe is one of the weakest solo laners of all the common solo lane champions in the game. Her harassment is not actually that strong because it can be avoided simply by standing behind creeps, and her burst damage is hilariously bad. On top of that she lacks escapes and has some of the lowest base defensive stats in the game. I tend to agree with maxing E first (or at least putting two or three points in it early) because in most matchups you are going to have to play a very passive, farming based game and you are not going to be getting kills pre-6. Plus, ranking up E basically gives your team a second clairvoyance, and can help your team track the enemy jungler.
OremLK on
My zombie survival life simulator They Don't Sleep is out now on Steam if you want to check it out.
prioritizing E gives you maybe an elixir's worth of gold advantage compared prioritizing everything else first
and if you prioritize W and Q you can actually kill people sometimes
one point in E is a second clairvoyance, the passive is utter garbage
I guess a point I should highlight is because I am running teleport, I can go back to base early and get some early items i need to make sure I can stay in lane safely. Also with a lot of people picking teemo and dual pushing, having teleport mid-late game is way more valuable than double escape spells. Again, use good positioning and avoid those aoe cc's that will let enemies get in your face.
One of my favorite things to do against leblanc is go back pre 6 and buy a cloak and a few pots. Just by the vurtue of leblanc getting zero kills and zero assists early means she will be nothing but an annoyance the rest of the game. but if you went boots+pots, didnt go back, and she hits 6 and bursts you to 0, you just gave her 300/400 gold, and she is on her way to diving you every single teamfight and murdering you.
I dont think my opinion here is wrong, I think its just different, but also nessisary to know for those matchups you absolutely cannot win.
we had: Tryn, Sivir (me) (both top), Nidalee (mid), and Kennen and Gragas (both bottom)
They both fed nasus, nasus was farming, we couldnt even kill him 1v3 later on
Whenever I see a Nidalee on my team, i have no idea WTF she does when we need her.
Gragas was like "you suck Sivir" when he wasnt even helping fights or doing anything, while I was fighting and usually dying due to Rammus stupid taunt, Malph stupid ult/slow, and other crap.
the one nice thing about E is that it updates cleared jungle camps on the minimap, making it easier to steal their buffs as soon as they pop up
Bingo.
E is wonderful early. Awareness early in the game on their jungle i find to be extremely valueable.
And going into mid game with 400-500 extra gold shouldnt be discounted either. Much more consistant than maybe going into mid game with an extra 300 (kill) or 100 (assist) gold.
The bonus gold really takes a long time for it to be significant at all. If you just put 1 point into it, the bonus is literally 1 extra creep worth of money per 25-30 creeps. In order for the bonus gold to be meaningful, you have to stack it early... but that gimps either your slow (potentially tolerable) or her w (probably not a good idea). If you are really, really good at hitting people that are far away with R so that you can help your team without providing the DPS/slow that you normally would be with your Q, then it might work. Still, it's an enterprise that takes a fair amount of risk.
I must admit that I am always tempted to do it when somebody picks TF on my team, though.
Has anybody ever attempted a mad money strategy with 3 gold/10s quints, the gold/10s mastery, TF, and philostones/hearts of gold? I'm pretty sure it won't be very effective, but I want to do it just so that I can imagine Ashe firing arrows made out of money.
The real benefit of E is mainly in the cv-like it does. Being able to scout potential ganks/buffs/dragon for 0 cost and 0 risk is lovely.
l_g on
Cole's Law: "Thinly sliced cabbage."
0
Alfred J. Kwakis it because you were insultedwhen I insulted your hair?Registered Userregular
1) A practically guarenteed 250+ gold
2) Or, maybe sometimes doing a little more damage netting you a kill (+300 gold) or assist (+100 gold) you wouldn't have otherwise have gotten?
I'm chosing #1. #2 ends up being too much of a rare case. Even if i average getting that extra kill every 2 games, thats only 150 gold on average compared to 250+ every game. The choice becomes clear to me.
1) A practically guarenteed 250+ gold
2) Or, maybe sometimes doing a little more damage netting you a kill (+300 gold) or assist (+100 gold) you wouldn't have otherwise have gotten?
I'm chosing #1. #2 ends up being too much of a rare case. Even if i average getting that extra kill every 2 games, thats only 150 gold on average compared to 250+ every game. The choice becomes clear to me.
If you're taking mid as ashe, it's pretty much your duty to leave mid and gank another lane whenever possible, which is where Q/W prioritizing is so important. W lets you wipe your creep wave so the opposing mid can't see that you're gone until its too late. Q keeps the poor sidelane schmucks in place long enough to get killed.
The problem with leveling E isn't that you're not as good 1v1, it's that you're not as useful in the small group encounters that Ashe should shine in.
having money doesn't win the game
it helps, but you actually have to push turrets, and to push turrets you have to do damage to your enemies so they leave
and volley is ashe's best early game skill, enchanted crystal arrow is her best mid-game skill, and frost shot potentially rises up to be her best late game skill
hawkshot is awful in comparison to those three, especially early game when volley owns
You should not leave mid and sacrifice cs as often as possible. Good opponents call mia's ping the map etc making it very hard for you to land a gank. Especially when you can just sit in your lane, farm cs, and just assist top and bottom with your ult. And your ult will travel faster than your opponent can type (what does the ping mean anyway?)
Sure in low level/elo games when there are a lot of people that carelessly push lanes, leaving to gank is all fine and good.
Posts
I'm dead serious."
why do I constantly get the team that fails at everything? Like, it's true, they do always, with no exceptions, suck. I can't even remember the last time someone carried me.
or when my team got first blood
I used to like watching his stream(he's pretty decent), but lately he's just been this depressing troll after failing to climb back up in elo.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
ive been stuck between 1200 and 1300
SWTOR - Elysium
League of Legends Handle - Siegfreid
WoW - Siegfreid
FFXIV - Maxim
The internet says that Ashe and Corki are the best ranged Carries. Ashe I completely understand, as his CC is quite strong. If I'm playing with coordinated friends, I typically play Ashe. In Solo Queue though, I find my teammates never, if ever, make use of her excellent CC, and with only mediocre escape (Shoot, Slow, Run, Shoot, Slow, Run), I like her less than Corki and Tristana.
I have trouble however seeing why Corki is lauded so undeniably better than Tristana.
I like Tristana because of the following:
- Reliable Escape (Though Corki has this too)
- Fantastic Gold Farming
- Method of Slowing opponents in 1v1 that is a great gap closer as well
- Excellent late-game range
- Healing Debuff that does Damage (Don't have to run ignite)
- Great Steroid
- Ult that does good damage while either being a CC (remove them from the fight by pushing them through a wall), or an assist-enabler (Jump and Rocket them back into your team)
I haven't played Corki as extensively, but I feel he has the following:
- Reliable Escape that does damage to chasers
- Reliable Blind
- Ult that does very high damage (if rockets are allowed to stack)
- AoE damage and armor reduction talent.
As far as I can tell, Corki gives up small amounts of gold-farming and control for different forms of control and slight damage. I can't directly find what makes him far and away better than Tristana.
Are there things that I'm not noticing that I should be about him? I love Trist to death, and would love to keep her around as my Carry of choice when not running Ashe for her CC.
arrrrgg
A few things to remember:
Ashe isn't really a hard carry, she's much more support than she is carry, and relies almost entirely on her team to take advantage of the openings you create with her. She doesn't have any sort of physical attack steroid, so her late-game scaling is pretty poor, and therefore it requires a lot more gold for her to hit critical mass.
Trist V Corki. They both obviously have a lot of similarities in their kit, the most glaring problem with corki is that his range isn't good enough to keep him away from danger, but he does have plenty of damage to make up for it. I've seen them both done really well and really poorly to similar effect. Corki seems to have a bit better 5v5 poke, but trist is better at poking down towers when you've got people sitting underneath them.
I wouldn't say he's "undeniably better" than Tristana, but there are reasons why he's considered a superb ranged carry:
- Nearly infinite, very high distance poke. Being able to poke down the enemy team to under half health before the team fight even starts is a huge advantage.
- Split Damage. Tristana offers a lot of this as well, but Corki it slightly better. I can't emphasize how key split damage is to winning games.
- Phosphorous Bomb and Gatling Gun. His kit in general is brilliant. His phosphorous bomb is anti-carry while his gatling gun is anti-tank, giving him flexibility on who he can target in team fights or how easily he can win a 1v1 scenario.
Just played a game as fiddle, was robbed of a penta-kill with crowstorm >.> There was a teamfight at the top, 4v5 and I was below the lane, so i crowstorm'd in, but someone took two of the kills before crowstorm or dark wind finished them off. still got the ace, but GAHHH
Also, Flippr will do. I think you mentioned your Maokai rune page before in another discussion.
I had a few questions though. I know he's mana starved a lot but I've learned to deal with his mana issues and dropped clarity after swearing to myself for a week that it was 100% required. I know 13 armor and 11mp/5 aren't huge numbers but wouldn't armor be a better stat early game, especially with the mp/5 not maxing out till 18?
Also general rune question... are blues just worse yellows?
they might be raging but I muted everyone long ago
fuck my elo
PSN:Furlion
okay yeah most of this advice is wrong
ashe is an amazing harasser in mid. her w outranges nearly every other ability in the game and is great harassment. if you are going against someone in mid who ashe can counter (like sivir, for instance, or akali), you should be levelling your w primarily, because you can easily get early game kills with her with the assistance of a jungle gank
you should only be primarily levelling your e if you are against an unharassable lane opponent- say, mundo or leblanc or something. a mid opponent you can't win against you should be levelling your e just to focus on cs
your w scales the slow off your q, so if you're levelling your w you need to be levelling your q
in no circumstances ever should you take e over r. that is a horrid idea because your r is your source of burst damage in a teamfight in addition to being a great initiation
running zerkers over boots 3 or merc treads is awful. ashe has the slowest base move speed in the game (tied with fiddles) and needs the increased mobility or lower cc (hard cc is ashe's enemy) or she is fucked in teamfights. always, always always run either boots 3 or merc treads. maybe boots of mobo if you're really good at kiting, although you have no move speed steroid so it's still not a good idea
ashe is very nearly one of the champions that needs two escape summoners. if she's ganked she, again, has no move speed steroids (just a move speed debuff), so she can be in a bit of a rough spot without ghost and flash. I would recommend running those two (maybe if you're feeling ballsy exhaust and flash). Teleport's not a bad option on her but you'll probably find yourself dying to a gank you could've escaped if you had both summoners
for first buys i normally don't get doran's blade any more. it hinges on pushing your lane to get health back and imo is kind of a bad item to buy nowadays. I'd recommend running doran's shield over it. I'm really liking boots + 3 pots start tho- it gives you insane mobility, allows you to more easily dodge skillshots (And shuts sivir down), helps you escape ganks more easily, and let's you stay in lane for a long, long time
What little my opinion matters at lvl 12, I really support this. Switching from Doran's Blade to Boots + Pots changed my game entirely when playing carries.
FFBE: 898,311,440
Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/dElementalor
problem. solved.
Every bit of this is correct. To add to it, if I can't get middle, I don't go ashe. I run boots and 3 pots every time as well, and laugh at any AD that gets a doran's blade. It requires too much autoattacking, hurts your last hitting, pushes the lane too much, and at early levels I can harass you FAR more than you can leech back.
For example, it takes probably 30+ hits to leech back my first crit to your face. And my first hit will always crit, thanks to ashe's passive. That's about 160 HP off the enemy right at the start.
Doran's may be better for midgame, but for early game it is worse by far.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I put down E before R because it doesnt matter
E, W, E, Q, E, R, E, W, E, W, R
If you are putting a point in E every time you CAN put a point in E both of these are true
E > R > W > Q
R > E > W > Q
See what I did there?
Also Rent it has been established that while attacking, berserkers gives you higher overall movespeed. Which is very important for ashe. Not to mention the boots are cheaper and lets you build into more important things sooner. I also didnt say take berserkers OVER merc treads, I just said take berserkers over boots of swiftness. Generally however, I use positioning not to get CC'd to hell. Even a 1 second stun reduced is still enough to get ashe killed the majority of the time.
My early game ashe focuses on farming, and farming, and farming. Typically i'm playing against people that dont play stupid and try to get in your face often, or ignore cs to harrass you. Volley pushes the lane against good opponents setting you up to get ganked. This is why I dont play the poke with volley early game, it invites a jungler to come out and kill you. I rather keep the lane in the middle where I can easily retreat to the tower without the aid of a summoner spell, and in the case of a sudden gank, flash right to my tower.
The point of dorans blade isnt to autoattack minions like an idiot either, just last hit as normal. It gives you extra health just in case someone does get in your face so you can win that early exchange. The lifesteal is neglegable and generally ignorable. The extra attack damage helps you get those last hits a little easier.
I do like the boots + 3 pots opening, it is definatly solid and lets you play far more aggressively. But as I'm playing ashe very passively and just winning safely (more cs, more gold, more assists) being able to take more burst damage is more important to me.
Boots + pots is usually a good choice if you know you already have a strong advantage in your matchup and want the extra movespeed to aid in pressing that advantage. These situations are few, however, because you can't always predict who is going to lane against you and matchups which give you a strong advantage are not that common even if you can.
Also Rent, Ashe is one of the weakest solo laners of all the common solo lane champions in the game. Her harassment is not actually that strong because it can be avoided simply by standing behind creeps, and her burst damage is hilariously bad. On top of that she lacks escapes and has some of the lowest base defensive stats in the game. I tend to agree with maxing E first (or at least putting two or three points in it early) because in most matchups you are going to have to play a very passive, farming based game and you are not going to be getting kills pre-6. Plus, ranking up E basically gives your team a second clairvoyance, and can help your team track the enemy jungler.
and if you prioritize W and Q you can actually kill people sometimes
one point in E is a second clairvoyance, the passive is utter garbage
One of my favorite things to do against leblanc is go back pre 6 and buy a cloak and a few pots. Just by the vurtue of leblanc getting zero kills and zero assists early means she will be nothing but an annoyance the rest of the game. but if you went boots+pots, didnt go back, and she hits 6 and bursts you to 0, you just gave her 300/400 gold, and she is on her way to diving you every single teamfight and murdering you.
I dont think my opinion here is wrong, I think its just different, but also nessisary to know for those matchups you absolutely cannot win.
If I had access to his entire playlist I would probably literally never watch him again.
other team had a nasus
we had: Tryn, Sivir (me) (both top), Nidalee (mid), and Kennen and Gragas (both bottom)
They both fed nasus, nasus was farming, we couldnt even kill him 1v3 later on
Whenever I see a Nidalee on my team, i have no idea WTF she does when we need her.
Gragas was like "you suck Sivir" when he wasnt even helping fights or doing anything, while I was fighting and usually dying due to Rammus stupid taunt, Malph stupid ult/slow, and other crap.
Bingo.
E is wonderful early. Awareness early in the game on their jungle i find to be extremely valueable.
And going into mid game with 400-500 extra gold shouldnt be discounted either. Much more consistant than maybe going into mid game with an extra 300 (kill) or 100 (assist) gold.
I must admit that I am always tempted to do it when somebody picks TF on my team, though.
Has anybody ever attempted a mad money strategy with 3 gold/10s quints, the gold/10s mastery, TF, and philostones/hearts of gold? I'm pretty sure it won't be very effective, but I want to do it just so that I can imagine Ashe firing arrows made out of money.
The real benefit of E is mainly in the cv-like it does. Being able to scout potential ganks/buffs/dragon for 0 cost and 0 risk is lovely.
1) A practically guarenteed 250+ gold
2) Or, maybe sometimes doing a little more damage netting you a kill (+300 gold) or assist (+100 gold) you wouldn't have otherwise have gotten?
I'm chosing #1. #2 ends up being too much of a rare case. Even if i average getting that extra kill every 2 games, thats only 150 gold on average compared to 250+ every game. The choice becomes clear to me.
If you're taking mid as ashe, it's pretty much your duty to leave mid and gank another lane whenever possible, which is where Q/W prioritizing is so important. W lets you wipe your creep wave so the opposing mid can't see that you're gone until its too late. Q keeps the poor sidelane schmucks in place long enough to get killed.
The problem with leveling E isn't that you're not as good 1v1, it's that you're not as useful in the small group encounters that Ashe should shine in.
it helps, but you actually have to push turrets, and to push turrets you have to do damage to your enemies so they leave
and volley is ashe's best early game skill, enchanted crystal arrow is her best mid-game skill, and frost shot potentially rises up to be her best late game skill
hawkshot is awful in comparison to those three, especially early game when volley owns
Sure in low level/elo games when there are a lot of people that carelessly push lanes, leaving to gank is all fine and good.
But generally no, just sit in your lane and farm.