Plus, Space Marines are orders of magnitude more badass. I mean seriously, they never lose. If they are coming close to losing, they destroy the entire planet, which is a win.
Gears of War spends three games looking at one skirmish on a backwater, nothing planet involving hundreds of combatants. Meanwhile over here in the 40k universe, millions are killed every minute in a pan-galactic everwar with utterly no end in sight.
The Imperium doesn't even bother deploying more troops if the planet is not valuable enough to retake intact. They just spew virus bombs and vortex torpedoes. The logic of 40K while strange to us is perfectly logical when humanity numbers in the trillions and every new species of alien discovered wants to devour your heart. To me 40K only make sense in a shooter style videogame. Life is cheap, bolter ammo is expensive...
To me these seem like misconceptions. It's a VERY big thing for the Imperium to order Exterminatus on a planet, and they only do it in the worst case scenarios, if they can't take back a world, even if it isn't super important, they'll just keep trying. They might ignore it for a while until more important stuff is taken care of first though. As for the aliens, that's really just the official perception of aliens in 40k, most of the main alien races are generally hostile (with Tau being the least hostile but still expansionist) there are tons and tons of lesser races that don't usually get mentioned that run the gamut from just as evil and violent as orks, to fairly common mercenary and trading partner to the Imperium, even though it isn't technically sanctioned unless they smell something tricky, Imperial forces hiring Xenos mercenaries and trading with aliens is generally ignored. Hell, sometimes the Imperium even hires Orks! Generally the Blood Axes, but other groups as well.
You make good points. My reply was a continuation of the how the themes and scope of 40K are very different from GOW. I love GOW2 but some of its themes would not resonate the same to people from the 40K universe. That's all.
As far as Exterminatus, I know they don't just sacrifice planets carelessly but there is a definite ruthlessness to their planning. Their strategy is give up lives for territory. If they can not take a planet back, they would rather scorch it if they can rather than let the enemy hold it. They don't always do it but they certainly don't shy away from it either. The Damocles Gulf Crusade is an example of the Imperium's restraint(although the Third Sphere Expansion might be changing their mind).
I believe its the third edition version of the Orks codex(could be 4th ed), that talks about allowing a planet to fall to the orks so that they could more easily be destroyed. The reasoning was that the IG and militias took the brunt of the Waaagh and made the orks vulnerable to counterattack by the Angels of Absolution. The planet was set to run out of minerals soon and so the people on it were expendable.
Like any huge organization, the Imperium makes decisions according to those who are in the position to make them. The Imperium and especially humanity has had dealings and even steady relationships with many Xenos but its definitely not condoned. I don't think I'm wrong to say that orthodox members of the Ecclesiarchy or the Ministorum would purge anybody who had unsponsored dealings with aliens. And that's the point, the Imperium does not normally make deals with aliens and they have a very extreme view of dealing with this threat. There are excellent examples of exceptions to this and the logic behind them are sound but they still would not want the Inquisition to know about it.
As I said, I know my statement above was a generalization of the Imperium. It was meant to be.
What happened in that story is that they failed to come to the planets aid (the Inquisition intercepted the call for aid and the transcript was suppressed) because they calculated that assassinating the Warboss in charge of the buildup of forces would prematurely trigger the Waaagh!, leaving Imperial forces out of position to engage the Orks and allowing them momentum in the conflict. Instead they allowed the planet to be overrun to give surrounding Imperial forces time to prepare and organize, because the planet was going to be running out of mining resources in a dozen or so years anyway and therefore wasn't of vital strategic interest.
If James Cameron caught shit for having Avatar look too much like Halo, then I don't think Relic was going to escape that level of intelligence either.
If James Cameron caught shit for having Avatar look too much like Halo, then I don't think Relic was going to escape that level of intelligence either.
It did?
Huh, must've missed that. I mean Halo was pretty clearly influenced by Aliens, even the devs said that at some point IIRC.
If James Cameron caught shit for having Avatar look too much like Halo, then I don't think Relic was going to escape that level of intelligence either.
It did?
Huh, must've missed that. I mean Halo was pretty clearly influenced by Aliens, even the devs said that at some point IIRC.
I believe his response was, "I made it, let you borrow it, and now I'm taking it back."
Or was that Usher's response to Neyo and all the other R&B artists that are trying to copy him and MJ, still applies.
Plus, Space Marines are orders of magnitude more badass. I mean seriously, they never lose. If they are coming close to losing, they destroy the entire planet, which is a win.
Gears of War spends three games looking at one skirmish on a backwater, nothing planet involving hundreds of combatants. Meanwhile over here in the 40k universe, millions are killed every minute in a pan-galactic everwar with utterly no end in sight.
The Imperium doesn't even bother deploying more troops if the planet is not valuable enough to retake intact. They just spew virus bombs and vortex torpedoes. The logic of 40K while strange to us is perfectly logical when humanity numbers in the trillions and every new species of alien discovered wants to devour your heart. To me 40K only make sense in a shooter style videogame. Life is cheap, bolter ammo is expensive...
To me these seem like misconceptions. It's a VERY big thing for the Imperium to order Exterminatus on a planet, and they only do it in the worst case scenarios, if they can't take back a world, even if it isn't super important, they'll just keep trying.
Fighting until the bitter end and then blowing up the planet when overrun was standard operating procedure when fighting Hive Fleet Kraken.
Looks like it'll be a four man squad in the campaign. In co-op, I guess that'll be four players.
There's also going to be team deathmatch of some sort, SMs vs Chaos. Though, given Relic's track record with DoW1/2, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some sort of objective-based mode.
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
Wait, wait, co-op campaign you say? Why is this the first time I have heard about this business?
Plus, Space Marines are orders of magnitude more badass. I mean seriously, they never lose. If they are coming close to losing, they destroy the entire planet, which is a win.
Gears of War spends three games looking at one skirmish on a backwater, nothing planet involving hundreds of combatants. Meanwhile over here in the 40k universe, millions are killed every minute in a pan-galactic everwar with utterly no end in sight.
The Imperium doesn't even bother deploying more troops if the planet is not valuable enough to retake intact. They just spew virus bombs and vortex torpedoes. The logic of 40K while strange to us is perfectly logical when humanity numbers in the trillions and every new species of alien discovered wants to devour your heart. To me 40K only make sense in a shooter style videogame. Life is cheap, bolter ammo is expensive...
To me these seem like misconceptions. It's a VERY big thing for the Imperium to order Exterminatus on a planet, and they only do it in the worst case scenarios, if they can't take back a world, even if it isn't super important, they'll just keep trying.
Fighting until the bitter end and then blowing up the planet when overrun was standard operating procedure when fighting Hive Fleet Kraken.
That doesn't contradict what he said - you don't reclaim planets taken by Tyranids because there isn't going to be anything to reclaim.
On the other end of spectrum, the Inquisition tried for one thousand years to purge a planet of Chaos influence before throwing their hands up and going 'Guys, this isn't working' and then Exterminatusing the planet.
What happened in that story is that they failed to come to the planets aid (the Inquisition intercepted the call for aid and the transcript was suppressed) because they calculated that assassinating the Warboss in charge of the buildup of forces would prematurely trigger the Waaagh!, leaving Imperial forces out of position to engage the Orks and allowing them momentum in the conflict. Instead they allowed the planet to be overrun to give surrounding Imperial forces time to prepare and organize, because the planet was going to be running out of mining resources in a dozen or so years anyway and therefore wasn't of vital strategic interest.
Right. It's been awhile since I read it. Anyway, the point stands that the planet and the people became expendable since it had lost its value as a strategic asset to the Imperium. Pragmatic but ruthless. You bring up a good point that it would be a mistake to assume the will of the Inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy and the rest of the Imperium are one and the same.
Looks like it'll be a four man squad in the campaign. In co-op, I guess that'll be four players.
There's also going to be team deathmatch of some sort, SMs vs Chaos. Though, given Relic's track record with DoW1/2, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some sort of objective-based mode.
Calling it now:
Considering how popular it turned out with DoW2, I'm guessing that there's going to be a Last Stand style mode. "Horde" style gameplay modes are pretty popular these days, which is essentially what Last Stand was but for and RTS anyway.
Plus it's also extremely fitting for the setting, a band of Space Marines fighting against endless (or near enough) hordes, right to the bitter end.
Yeah. I'd actually like it if it was a little less gamey than Last Stand in DOW2, with the waves of different combinations of enemies.
I wouldn't mind at all if they threw in one map, simply a hill with the Blood Ravens flag at the top, and endlessly spawned enemies all around. Not in waves, just constantly, throwing in some nobz, squigs and the like from time to time.
I think the concept of a horde mode is superb, and they must have playtested it so I guess I'm wrong, but the splitting it up into distinct 'waves' is the only downside for me. It feels too artificial.
Work up some simple Left 4 Dead Director AI to make that shit more fluid.
I mean, that's a topic of conversation that could sustain its own separate thread. Why more games don't employ AI in the sense of controlling the game rather than simply populating enemies. A Director in a game like Space Marine where the enemies are almost by definitions stupid, mindless and group into hordes makes sense.
I dunno, waves are definitely more 'gamey' but they also allow for that co-op planning, regrouping and most importantly anticipation of the next swarm.
That is half the awesomeness of Horde mode for me.
This is by far my favorite piece of Sanguinius goodness.
I know primarchs were big but that's going a bit over board. He's seven or eight times the size of the space marines! He's getting into scout titan territory there. :P
basically in second edition they were giving out exterminatus like candy, but over time they toned down the crazy fascism like coke removing real sugar from their products.
So what is the multiplayer going to be like? Is it just co-op campaign?
Calling it now:
Considering how popular it turned out with DoW2, I'm guessing that there's going to be a Last Stand style mode.
It's in the op, bros
"All of the following multiplayer details are yet to be confirmed, but during our hands-on time the planned multiplayer will consist of 8 versus 8, Chaos Space Marines pitted against those loyal to the undying Emperor. Multiplayer will feature an XP progression, unlocking new items as your fully customisable Space Marine levels up. There will also be a Cleanse mode, co-op for up to a squad of five marines taking on wave after wave of enemies."
This is by far my favorite piece of Sanguinius goodness.
I know primarchs were big but that's going a bit over board. He's seven or eight times the size of the space marines! He's getting into scout titan territory there. :P
The best part about the ecclesiarchy (Sisters of battle/witch hunters) is the fact that they are so gross that they are barely distinguishable from the heretics they hunt
I think it's probably more because Space Marines were male only and people wondered what the women were up to.
But in the minatures, there's uh, well some eldar were female, you had a couple slanesh demons, and hurm.
(yeah it was clearly a move to make 40K slightly less of a tremendous sausage fest. And I think it's really telling that the reaction to the sole female race is 'oh well clearly they've put those in there for us to wank off to')
On a lark I pre-ordered at Gamestop. The Black Templar armor just looks so much better than the Ultramarine drabness.
I am very upset I will have to enter a gamestop and do a dreaded preorder for a chapter that would be more willing to send 5 marines to take on a WAAAGH
40k being a tremendous sausage fest is, in part, the point. The Space Marines are meant to be equal parts over the top badassery and "making fun of ultra machismo".
The best part about the ecclesiarchy (Sisters of battle/witch hunters) is the fact that they are so gross that they are barely distinguishable from the heretics they hunt
Also, here is a random political scene in 40K:
That being part of Warhammer's oh so subtle irony.
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God bless retcons.
Awesomeness from the phoenix comic-con today
Talked with him for a bit. Hes super hyped about the game himself, we were both geeking out about it a bit.
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"Aren't you a little short to be a Space Marine?"
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The 4 on his shoulder stands for "feet tall", he's a Ratling you see. ;3
You make good points. My reply was a continuation of the how the themes and scope of 40K are very different from GOW. I love GOW2 but some of its themes would not resonate the same to people from the 40K universe. That's all.
As far as Exterminatus, I know they don't just sacrifice planets carelessly but there is a definite ruthlessness to their planning. Their strategy is give up lives for territory. If they can not take a planet back, they would rather scorch it if they can rather than let the enemy hold it. They don't always do it but they certainly don't shy away from it either. The Damocles Gulf Crusade is an example of the Imperium's restraint(although the Third Sphere Expansion might be changing their mind).
Like any huge organization, the Imperium makes decisions according to those who are in the position to make them. The Imperium and especially humanity has had dealings and even steady relationships with many Xenos but its definitely not condoned. I don't think I'm wrong to say that orthodox members of the Ecclesiarchy or the Ministorum would purge anybody who had unsponsored dealings with aliens. And that's the point, the Imperium does not normally make deals with aliens and they have a very extreme view of dealing with this threat. There are excellent examples of exceptions to this and the logic behind them are sound but they still would not want the Inquisition to know about it.
As I said, I know my statement above was a generalization of the Imperium. It was meant to be.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
It did?
Huh, must've missed that. I mean Halo was pretty clearly influenced by Aliens, even the devs said that at some point IIRC.
I believe his response was, "I made it, let you borrow it, and now I'm taking it back."
Or was that Usher's response to Neyo and all the other R&B artists that are trying to copy him and MJ, still applies.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Women in my minature game?
:x:x:x
Gamertag: PrimusD | Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
There's also going to be team deathmatch of some sort, SMs vs Chaos. Though, given Relic's track record with DoW1/2, I wouldn't be surprised if they also had some sort of objective-based mode.
Why have I not been informed of such things.
From narrating the Horus Heresy to retelling the fallout of Ultramarines to the Behemoth swarm, only setting needed.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
That doesn't contradict what he said - you don't reclaim planets taken by Tyranids because there isn't going to be anything to reclaim.
On the other end of spectrum, the Inquisition tried for one thousand years to purge a planet of Chaos influence before throwing their hands up and going 'Guys, this isn't working' and then Exterminatusing the planet.
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Right. It's been awhile since I read it. Anyway, the point stands that the planet and the people became expendable since it had lost its value as a strategic asset to the Imperium. Pragmatic but ruthless. You bring up a good point that it would be a mistake to assume the will of the Inquisition or the Ecclesiarchy and the rest of the Imperium are one and the same.
Calling it now:
Considering how popular it turned out with DoW2, I'm guessing that there's going to be a Last Stand style mode. "Horde" style gameplay modes are pretty popular these days, which is essentially what Last Stand was but for and RTS anyway.
Plus it's also extremely fitting for the setting, a band of Space Marines fighting against endless (or near enough) hordes, right to the bitter end.
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
I wouldn't mind at all if they threw in one map, simply a hill with the Blood Ravens flag at the top, and endlessly spawned enemies all around. Not in waves, just constantly, throwing in some nobz, squigs and the like from time to time.
I think the concept of a horde mode is superb, and they must have playtested it so I guess I'm wrong, but the splitting it up into distinct 'waves' is the only downside for me. It feels too artificial.
Work up some simple Left 4 Dead Director AI to make that shit more fluid.
I mean, that's a topic of conversation that could sustain its own separate thread. Why more games don't employ AI in the sense of controlling the game rather than simply populating enemies. A Director in a game like Space Marine where the enemies are almost by definitions stupid, mindless and group into hordes makes sense.
That is half the awesomeness of Horde mode for me.
I know primarchs were big but that's going a bit over board. He's seven or eight times the size of the space marines! He's getting into scout titan territory there. :P
https://medium.com/@alascii
It's in the op, bros
I think it's probably more because Space Marines were male only and people wondered what the women were up to.
Fine time to be listening to this and then click *show spoiler*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSlNHi6wgQQ
http://www.fallout3nexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=16534
Then they wanted the space spanish inquisition and figured that space nuns would be a good idea.
Also, here is a random political scene in 40K:
But in the minatures, there's uh, well some eldar were female, you had a couple slanesh demons, and hurm.
(yeah it was clearly a move to make 40K slightly less of a tremendous sausage fest. And I think it's really telling that the reaction to the sole female race is 'oh well clearly they've put those in there for us to wank off to')
Only in it for a few seconds, but Toby's reaction/expression to the E3 Space Marine is pretty great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqD-IXVPEnE
I am very upset I will have to enter a gamestop and do a dreaded preorder for a chapter that would be more willing to send 5 marines to take on a WAAAGH
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I've always wondered if Ratzinger looks back fondly on the days that his predecessors could snap their fingers and castigate random people.
*head assplode*
These people are entirely too pretty.