It looks like its exactly what I was expecting. Yes, we all want more from MMO's by now, but I'll take what I can get. This isn't anything we didn't know over a year ago.
Plus, that's just a starter area isn't it? We've seen the dull of the dull featuring the slowest player in that or any galaxy. It can only go up from here, right? I hope so at least.
We've seen the dull of the dull featuring the slowest player in that or any galaxy. It can only go up from here, right?
I'm not even sure if he's incredibly slow or anything, I think maybe my bladder just doesn't sync up with his. If you were to watch my screen while I'm playing a video game at home, there would probably be repeated though brief flashes of excruciating boredom while my character stood around doing nothing because I was in the kitchen making a pot of coffee or attending to some other biological function.
edit: Although I do acknowledge that his inability to figure out which direction is South without opening his world map every 60 seconds does betray his total lack of spatial awareness.
I just kept yelling at the screen for that guy to go back and turn on that ancient computer!
EDIT: oh I can totally relate to going to the map screens often....when I'm first learning the game!!! At some point though, slow though I may be, I eventually figure out where stuff is.
Yeah that guy was terrible...they could have cut this video in half if they had just gotten a player who knows what he's doing a bit better.
Also, this is pretty much exactly what I expected. I anticipate things will get more complicated as you level up, and I for one am looking forward to the flashpoints.
I just kept yelling at the screen for that guy to go back and turn on that ancient computer!
EDIT: oh I can totally relate to going to the map screens often....when I'm first learning the game!!! At some point though, slow though I may be, I eventually figure out where stuff is.
I have to use maps, too, but some things are common sense regardless of how much experience you have with a certain area or game. Case in point: if you take a speeder bike from the Jedi Temple to the Southern Camp (which is, logically to the south), and then you turn around 180 degrees, you are now facing north.
I feel bad for trash talking him like this, of course, because in exchange for giving us such an extensive peak at the gameplay, he's almost certainly going to be banned from the beta....
edit: I take it back, I totally feel comfortable trash talking him. You have to go through the fucking waterfall cave to get to the forge. Stop acting like you can't read that map.
yeah I like how the title of the video is "don't tell anyone!" Someone doesn't know how the internet works.
Then at the end of the video, there was a link to another video called "can't stream TOR anymore, someone spoiled it for everyone"
Yes, because it's the person who ratted him out to TOR who is at fault, not the guy who leaked it.
Honestly, I'm glad the dude leaked the videos, but he should have been aware he was getting banned for it. It's not a big deal though. I could create like 80 accounts on the mainsite and it wouldn't make a difference because they don't have any credit card info to track right now. The whole notion that a ton of people wouldn't go check out these videos is pretty naive.
Have they said anything about mounts? Like, do you get a speeder bike that you can use on worlds? I want a land speeder.
I think it was leaked that there are mounts.
Im going to cruise through so many cities.
I saw the land speeder equivalent of WoW's griffin taxis in that video and I believe that to be the only place you'll see land speeders underneath your character.
And yeah, every time a new MMO comes out I get amused again by the heights of expectation people reach over how great it's gameplay will be.
I think what gets me about the TOR 'disappointment', is that nothing was really explicitly said to imply that combat would be revolutionary (beyond "you'll fight lots of mans!", which you do).
Everyone's expectations seem to be their own ideas projected. "Man I would like an MMO that does x".... "wait, this doesn't do x? HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT".
And yeah, every time a new MMO comes out I get amused again by the heights of expectation people reach over how great it's gameplay will be.
I think what gets me about the TOR 'disappointment', is that nothing was really explicitly said to imply that combat would be revolutionary (beyond "you'll fight lots of mans!", which you do).
Everyone's expectations seem to be their own ideas projected. "Man I would like an MMO that does x".... "wait, this doesn't do x? HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT".
Well, to be fair, all of those CGI trailers they've been releasing for a year are basically begging people to use creative interpretation to fill in the blanks between "what we've seen out of MMOs so far" and "what this trailer seems to suggest MMOs can be."
Bioware never said anything explicitly to build any singular concrete expectations, but neither have they made an attempt to manage expectations.
SammyF on
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Holy shit, guys. I could have told you it would be an action-bar MMO from the 10 minutes of the game I played at PAX last year. Anyone could have told you from the PAX East Taral V flashpoint video. The fact that this video is what killed the deal for anyone is mind-blowing in the extreme.
Yeah. Color my mind blown as well.
Elldren on
fuck gendered marketing
0
ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
And yeah, every time a new MMO comes out I get amused again by the heights of expectation people reach over how great it's gameplay will be.
I think what gets me about the TOR 'disappointment', is that nothing was really explicitly said to imply that combat would be revolutionary (beyond "you'll fight lots of mans!", which you do).
Everyone's expectations seem to be their own ideas projected. "Man I would like an MMO that does x".... "wait, this doesn't do x? HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT".
Well, to be fair, all of those CGI trailers they've been releasing for a year are basically begging people to use creative interpretation to fill in the blanks between "what we've seen out of MMOs so far" and "what this trailer seems to suggest MMOs can be."
Bioware never said anything explicitly to build any singular concrete expectations, but neither have they made an attempt to manage expectations.
I am genuinely curious as to what people expected and how it would be implemented and if it is, in fact, revolutionary why they aren't shopping it for development.
And yeah, every time a new MMO comes out I get amused again by the heights of expectation people reach over how great it's gameplay will be.
I think what gets me about the TOR 'disappointment', is that nothing was really explicitly said to imply that combat would be revolutionary (beyond "you'll fight lots of mans!", which you do).
Everyone's expectations seem to be their own ideas projected. "Man I would like an MMO that does x".... "wait, this doesn't do x? HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT".
Well, to be fair, all of those CGI trailers they've been releasing for a year are basically begging people to use creative interpretation to fill in the blanks between "what we've seen out of MMOs so far" and "what this trailer seems to suggest MMOs can be."
Bioware never said anything explicitly to build any singular concrete expectations, but neither have they made an attempt to manage expectations.
I am genuinely curious as to what people expected and how it would be implemented and if it is, in fact, revolutionary why they aren't shopping it for development.
Wish I could tell you, dude. Especially for a melee DPS-style character like a Jedi Knight, I've been expecting something incredibly conventional. I have some higher hopes that the cover point systems for the agent and smuggler classes might make ranged DPS into something more interesting that what you're likely to find in other MMOs, but I'm also tempering that with the expectation that 70% of the server population will be comprised of lightsaber wielding melee DPS or tank characters who are just going to charge the ranged DPS characters and negate the viability of the cover system entirely.
SammyF on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
They do not have an obligation to manage peoples overblown expectations.
They are not morally culpable for other peoples faults.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
They do not have an obligation to manage peoples overblown expectations.
They are not morally culpable for other peoples faults.
I'm not morally culpable when people impose performance or policy expectations on a candidate I'm managing, but I usually end up being professionally culpable when a segment of his constituents are allowed to expect one answer but end up hearing another.
Managing expectations is actually tremendously important in a lot of endeavors in life. Consumers have expectations. Industry journalists have expectations. Investors have expectations. Failing to meet any sector's expectations makes it much more difficult to qualify your endeavor as a success in a conversation with that group, and that can have consequences.
It just gets back to the silliness of the TOR "trailers". Anyone who expected anything of that sort from the game is too guillable to have enough money left to buy the game.
It is possible to make an MMO with more dynamic or fast-paced combat that WoW, action bar or not. It wasn't a big stretch to expect that from TOR given the trailer hype and the sci-fi setting.
Maybe as Sammy said, the Knight is possibly the most "vanilla" class in that regard, which makes it more jarring. Also possibly the player wasn't being very fancy with the full range of skills.
They do not have an obligation to manage peoples overblown expectations.
They are not morally culpable for other peoples faults.
I'm not morally culpable when people impose performance or policy expectations on a candidate I'm managing, but I usually end up being professionally culpable when a segment of his constituents are allowed to expect one answer but end up hearing another.
Managing expectations is actually tremendously important in a lot of endeavors in life. Consumers have expectations. Industry journalists have expectations. Investors have expectations. Failing to meet any sector's expectations makes it much more difficult to qualify your endeavor as a success in a conversation with that group, and that can have consequences.
In general, yes. Your points are valid.
In the context of the marketing released by bioware, no. Your points are not valid. They have released no false gameplay videos. They're shown some neat short films outlining the story. Conflating the two is not Bioware's fault. You don't try to manage people below a certain level of competence. You just take it on faith that most of your audience has a brain.
But lets take this to the extreme here, and assume they should manage that sort of thing. How do you think such management would be received by the majority of the populace who don't need such handholding for basic cognition? "We would like to stress that the cgi films are not indicative of gameplay." Sure that might help with those who can't tell the difference, but the rest of us are going to think "Gee you think? What you think we are stupid now?"
So now you've damaged yourself in another group. You can't control everything. Overmanagement can cause just as much damage as not doing so. At some point you have to just let it go.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
He's like lvl 8 and slow as mollasses. I can't think of any game where the combat doesn't get more involved as you go up levels.
He's not just slow, he's timid. Like, he'd suddenly realize that there was some kind of giant creature in front of him -- the same giant creature he'd passed four times already which had never, ever displayed the slightest interest in attacking him -- and he'd freeze like he was afraid to take another step. He went through huge parts of that game session like he'd accidentally made a wrong turn and stumbled into Jurassic Park: The MMO. Don't move; their eyesight is based on movement.
SammyF on
0
chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
He's like lvl 8 and slow as mollasses. I can't think of any game where the combat doesn't get more involved as you go up levels.
He's not just slow, he's timid. Like, he'd suddenly realize that there was some kind of giant creature in front of him -- the same giant creature he'd passed four times already which had never, ever displayed the slightest interest in attacking him -- and he'd freeze like he was afraid to take another step. He went through huge parts of that game session like he'd accidentally made a wrong turn and stumbled into Jurassic Park: The MMO. Don't move; their eyesight is based on movement.
Great.
Now I want Jurassic Park: The MMO.
You can play as humans or dinosaurs. If you roll T-Rex, you can eat everyone and nothing can stop you.
The Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior classes, in my mind, will easily be the most conventional MMO classes as they seem to fit existing archetypes pretty closely. Ranged tanking with the Trooper/BH and the whole stealth/healing/cover system with the Agent/Smuggler seem way more intriguing. The Inquisitors and Consulars seem to be versatile enough to stay interesting as well. That's why I'm playing a Smuggler as my main though.
It is possible to make an MMO with more dynamic or fast-paced combat that WoW, action bar or not. It wasn't a big stretch to expect that from TOR given the trailer hype and the sci-fi setting.
Possible? Sure. Only problem is that you now have to try and innovate a combat system, when, if you're Bioware, is not your bread and butter. All the same, they are bringing a couple of things to combat.
The cover system will make it dynamic since when you raise up in cover to take a shot, you can do more damage instead of just a flat damage reduction for being in cover. In that way, you'll have to try and time out shooting a person behind cover when they pop up, which is pretty dynamic.
This is a sci-fi fantasy setting though with magic and swords, so when those come into play, I was expecting pretty much what we have. I guess they could have arranged it in a way where you involve positioning more or add the dodge thing that Guild Wars 2 will have, but it seems they want to make the thing about their combat trying to juggle and adjust to fighting multiple opponents that will attack you in different ways (melee or ranged or magic or whatever.) The companion thing also will play a part as there will be multiple companions that can fill multiple roles, which you can use to benefit your play style.
I am going to be honest, I am really not that excited for this game. Nothing against it, but it is an MMO and I wait until they are released before I form opinions on them since I have been let down so many times in the past. That being said, this get me pretty excited. http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/starships/fury
It looks disappointingly predictable. Not bad per se, but it exactly matched the baseline expectations I had and no more, there was no surprises. I have no excitement for the game based on that footage.
-SPI- on
0
MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I wasn't able to watch the video. Apparently a website I've never been to before in my life banned my ip.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
He's like lvl 8 and slow as mollasses. I can't think of any game where the combat doesn't get more involved as you go up levels.
He's not just slow, he's timid. Like, he'd suddenly realize that there was some kind of giant creature in front of him -- the same giant creature he'd passed four times already which had never, ever displayed the slightest interest in attacking him -- and he'd freeze like he was afraid to take another step. He went through huge parts of that game session like he'd accidentally made a wrong turn and stumbled into Jurassic Park: The MMO. Don't move; their eyesight is based on movement.
Great.
Now I want Jurassic Park: The MMO.
You can play as humans or dinosaurs. If you roll T-Rex, you can eat everyone and nothing can stop you.
Actually, I think that could be a fun game. Humans only. All PvE. The best gear is a really comfortable, lightweight pair of boots you can run in.
Did anyone else find it silly that mobs in a Jedi flashpoint were dropping loot designed for empire classes? I'm guessing the purple gloves were more for a bounty hunter, but could be used by a trooper. But the forge guardian dropped a sniper rifle, which can only be used by an imperial agent sniper afaik.
He's like lvl 8 and slow as mollasses. I can't think of any game where the combat doesn't get more involved as you go up levels.
He's not just slow, he's timid. Like, he'd suddenly realize that there was some kind of giant creature in front of him -- the same giant creature he'd passed four times already which had never, ever displayed the slightest interest in attacking him -- and he'd freeze like he was afraid to take another step. He went through huge parts of that game session like he'd accidentally made a wrong turn and stumbled into Jurassic Park: The MMO. Don't move; their eyesight is based on movement.
Great.
Now I want Jurassic Park: The MMO.
You can play as humans or dinosaurs. If you roll T-Rex, you can eat everyone and nothing can stop you.
Actually, I think that could be a fun game. Humans only. All PvE. The best gear is a really comfortable, lightweight pair of boots you can run in.
I was initially joking, but yeah. That would be great. Finding rifles and pistols rarely, finally downing a raptor...
And then a Rex wanders over and nothing matters but being faster than the guy next to you.
Frankly TOR's combat does look more dynamic and fast-paced than WoW's. Like, you watch the flashpoint playthrough in the OP, and it looks pretty fluid; none of the discrete "trash pull. Pause. Trash pull. Pause. Boss" that you get in WoW instances. And apparently you're encouraged to look at/make use of the environment to a much greater extent than you are in most of WoW's gameplay.
A low level character with like, three abilities doesn't look very exciting to play and suddenly everybody's off the bandwagon.
I personally want to see what "range tanking" actually looks like before I pass judgment on it, but the only two tank classes I'm particularly interested in are bounty hunter and trooper, so I guess we'll see.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
hold your head high soldier, it ain't over yet
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Posts
Plus, that's just a starter area isn't it? We've seen the dull of the dull featuring the slowest player in that or any galaxy. It can only go up from here, right? I hope so at least.
Steam - Wildschwein | The Backlog
Grappling Hook Showdown - Tumblr
I'm not even sure if he's incredibly slow or anything, I think maybe my bladder just doesn't sync up with his. If you were to watch my screen while I'm playing a video game at home, there would probably be repeated though brief flashes of excruciating boredom while my character stood around doing nothing because I was in the kitchen making a pot of coffee or attending to some other biological function.
edit: Although I do acknowledge that his inability to figure out which direction is South without opening his world map every 60 seconds does betray his total lack of spatial awareness.
I just kept yelling at the screen for that guy to go back and turn on that ancient computer!
EDIT: oh I can totally relate to going to the map screens often....when I'm first learning the game!!! At some point though, slow though I may be, I eventually figure out where stuff is.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
Also, this is pretty much exactly what I expected. I anticipate things will get more complicated as you level up, and I for one am looking forward to the flashpoints.
I have to use maps, too, but some things are common sense regardless of how much experience you have with a certain area or game. Case in point: if you take a speeder bike from the Jedi Temple to the Southern Camp (which is, logically to the south), and then you turn around 180 degrees, you are now facing north.
I feel bad for trash talking him like this, of course, because in exchange for giving us such an extensive peak at the gameplay, he's almost certainly going to be banned from the beta....
edit: I take it back, I totally feel comfortable trash talking him. You have to go through the fucking waterfall cave to get to the forge. Stop acting like you can't read that map.
Then at the end of the video, there was a link to another video called "can't stream TOR anymore, someone spoiled it for everyone"
Yes, because it's the person who ratted him out to TOR who is at fault, not the guy who leaked it.
Enlist in Star Citizen! Citizenship must be earned!
what
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
"You receive [Motorized Leaf Shutter]"
perfect, now I won't have to work so hard on all those open leaves
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
It's fun sometimes to plug the names of the vendor trash into Google and do an image search to see what it comes up with.
For instance:
yessss
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat
Honestly, I'm glad the dude leaked the videos, but he should have been aware he was getting banned for it. It's not a big deal though. I could create like 80 accounts on the mainsite and it wouldn't make a difference because they don't have any credit card info to track right now. The whole notion that a ton of people wouldn't go check out these videos is pretty naive.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
Maybe we'll get Tauntauns?
I told you to stop talking about my sister like that.
I think what gets me about the TOR 'disappointment', is that nothing was really explicitly said to imply that combat would be revolutionary (beyond "you'll fight lots of mans!", which you do).
Everyone's expectations seem to be their own ideas projected. "Man I would like an MMO that does x".... "wait, this doesn't do x? HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT".
Well, to be fair, all of those CGI trailers they've been releasing for a year are basically begging people to use creative interpretation to fill in the blanks between "what we've seen out of MMOs so far" and "what this trailer seems to suggest MMOs can be."
Bioware never said anything explicitly to build any singular concrete expectations, but neither have they made an attempt to manage expectations.
Yeah. Color my mind blown as well.
I am genuinely curious as to what people expected and how it would be implemented and if it is, in fact, revolutionary why they aren't shopping it for development.
Wish I could tell you, dude. Especially for a melee DPS-style character like a Jedi Knight, I've been expecting something incredibly conventional. I have some higher hopes that the cover point systems for the agent and smuggler classes might make ranged DPS into something more interesting that what you're likely to find in other MMOs, but I'm also tempering that with the expectation that 70% of the server population will be comprised of lightsaber wielding melee DPS or tank characters who are just going to charge the ranged DPS characters and negate the viability of the cover system entirely.
They are not morally culpable for other peoples faults.
I'm not morally culpable when people impose performance or policy expectations on a candidate I'm managing, but I usually end up being professionally culpable when a segment of his constituents are allowed to expect one answer but end up hearing another.
Managing expectations is actually tremendously important in a lot of endeavors in life. Consumers have expectations. Industry journalists have expectations. Investors have expectations. Failing to meet any sector's expectations makes it much more difficult to qualify your endeavor as a success in a conversation with that group, and that can have consequences.
Maybe as Sammy said, the Knight is possibly the most "vanilla" class in that regard, which makes it more jarring. Also possibly the player wasn't being very fancy with the full range of skills.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
In general, yes. Your points are valid.
In the context of the marketing released by bioware, no. Your points are not valid. They have released no false gameplay videos. They're shown some neat short films outlining the story. Conflating the two is not Bioware's fault. You don't try to manage people below a certain level of competence. You just take it on faith that most of your audience has a brain.
But lets take this to the extreme here, and assume they should manage that sort of thing. How do you think such management would be received by the majority of the populace who don't need such handholding for basic cognition? "We would like to stress that the cgi films are not indicative of gameplay." Sure that might help with those who can't tell the difference, but the rest of us are going to think "Gee you think? What you think we are stupid now?"
So now you've damaged yourself in another group. You can't control everything. Overmanagement can cause just as much damage as not doing so. At some point you have to just let it go.
I was so upset I only played it for 4 years.
He's not just slow, he's timid. Like, he'd suddenly realize that there was some kind of giant creature in front of him -- the same giant creature he'd passed four times already which had never, ever displayed the slightest interest in attacking him -- and he'd freeze like he was afraid to take another step. He went through huge parts of that game session like he'd accidentally made a wrong turn and stumbled into Jurassic Park: The MMO. Don't move; their eyesight is based on movement.
Great.
Now I want Jurassic Park: The MMO.
You can play as humans or dinosaurs. If you roll T-Rex, you can eat everyone and nothing can stop you.
Why I fear the ocean.
Possible? Sure. Only problem is that you now have to try and innovate a combat system, when, if you're Bioware, is not your bread and butter. All the same, they are bringing a couple of things to combat.
The cover system will make it dynamic since when you raise up in cover to take a shot, you can do more damage instead of just a flat damage reduction for being in cover. In that way, you'll have to try and time out shooting a person behind cover when they pop up, which is pretty dynamic.
This is a sci-fi fantasy setting though with magic and swords, so when those come into play, I was expecting pretty much what we have. I guess they could have arranged it in a way where you involve positioning more or add the dodge thing that Guild Wars 2 will have, but it seems they want to make the thing about their combat trying to juggle and adjust to fighting multiple opponents that will attack you in different ways (melee or ranged or magic or whatever.) The companion thing also will play a part as there will be multiple companions that can fill multiple roles, which you can use to benefit your play style.
SteamID: devCharles
twitter: https://twitter.com/charlesewise
http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/starships/fury
Nothing amazing, it just looks really cool.
Actually, I think that could be a fun game. Humans only. All PvE. The best gear is a really comfortable, lightweight pair of boots you can run in.
I was initially joking, but yeah. That would be great. Finding rifles and pistols rarely, finally downing a raptor...
And then a Rex wanders over and nothing matters but being faster than the guy next to you.
Why I fear the ocean.
A low level character with like, three abilities doesn't look very exciting to play and suddenly everybody's off the bandwagon.
I personally want to see what "range tanking" actually looks like before I pass judgment on it, but the only two tank classes I'm particularly interested in are bounty hunter and trooper, so I guess we'll see.
that's why we call it the struggle, you're supposed to sweat