Sorry, never die, I have not encountered that error. Except for some memory leak issues that were eventually patched out, I never had a crashing issue with DA2. I would suggest copying your saves, uninstalling, and reinstalling the game and seeing if that fixes it. If not, you probably will have to redo the dungeon.
Well, managed to fix the issue and beat the game. I had a lot of fun with it, and in the end, I decided to
side with the mages. I did think it was stupid that Orsino flipped the fuck out and turned himself into a monster. "Oh noes we can't win! Turn into monster time!" and I'm just like really? My mage Hawke managed to pin down every single Templar who charged in there with time magic and lightning bolts, they never even got past the entrance.
And while I liked the game, I did feel the ending fights went on too long, especially considering the game makes you fight both Orsino and Meredith, each of which has multiple part fights, one after another with a couple of filler fights between. When Meredith summoned up all of the statues for like the fifth time I couldn't help but get annoyed, the fight stopped being epic and I just wanted it to be other. This is contrasted with the ending fight against the archdemon, which was a suspensful fight to the end with me.
Other than that I loved the setting and the gameplay immensely. I had so much fun with primal and force magic, and the campaign was overall a lot of fun.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Haha that was my reaction to that as well. It's an extremely transparent and stupid excuse to have two boss fights.
It's really just a horrible disconnect of the gameplay and the story. I mean, why send so many enemies if the result of the battle has no effect on the outcome of the story. They could have just sent five dudes at you and still have the same impact.
That FFVII PSP prequal or Halo: Reach is an example of how that battle should have gone.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I've been replaying DA: O.
I always feel guilty about giving Maric's sword to anyone other than Alistair or myself. I also feel guilty about selling equipment with "sentimental" value, like the Cousland family shield or Duncan's weapons.
I always feel guilty about giving Maric's sword to anyone other than Alistair or myself. I also feel guilty about selling equipment with "sentimental" value, like the Cousland family shield or Duncan's weapons.
I know what you mean. Maric's armor and weapons always go on Alstair.
If I do sell something, it's only to (camp follower, forget his name).
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I always feel guilty about giving Maric's sword to anyone other than Alistair or myself. I also feel guilty about selling equipment with "sentimental" value, like the Cousland family shield or Duncan's weapons.
Yeah, that shield thing was one of the few things DA2 did well. Other than the fact that it was almost kreia levels of nitpickery
It's really just a horrible disconnect of the gameplay and the story. I mean, why send so many enemies if the result of the battle has no effect on the outcome of the story. They could have just sent five dudes at you and still have the same impact.
That FFVII PSP prequal or Halo: Reach is an example of how that battle should have gone.
because two things were established in the first two minutes of the game
1. something really bad happened at Kirkwall that sent the world to the brink of war
2. the Champion was involved in it and her whereabouts are unknown to the Seekers, meaning that she didn't leave her corpse at whatever happened in Kirkwall
It's really just a horrible disconnect of the gameplay and the story. I mean, why send so many enemies if the result of the battle has no effect on the outcome of the story. They could have just sent five dudes at you and still have the same impact.
That FFVII PSP prequal or Halo: Reach is an example of how that battle should have gone.
because two things were established in the first two minutes of the game
I think you missed my point.
What I am saying is that if you choose the mages, there is a severe disconnect between what you play and what's in the story.
In the gameplay portion, Hawke destroys dozens of templars and not a single mage will go down. Again, this is in the actual gameplay. You feel like a badass because you are a badass. Then, once the battle is over and the cutscene takes place, there are suddenly mage bodies everywhere, even though it didn't happen in the gameplay portion. It's jarring, because the playing portion has you winning, yet the story says the mages are dropping like flies.
Many games have situations like this, in which the character or characters side is supposed to lose. Most standard games simply make an impossible situation for you to win. A couple of examples:
Chrono Trigger: First battle with Lavos
Xenogears: Bart's fight with Id
FFVII Crisis Core: Zacks final battle
Halo Reach: Noble 6's final fight
All the above have the gameplay reflect the change in the story, the hero is supposed to fail. In this case, Hawke cannot save the mages, period. No matter how well you fight, it will happen. So what the game should have done is send more and more waves at you until you eventually lost.
If you are going to have a fight where you can win, you better have a story continuation that follows the gameplay. Example:
Again, Chrono Trigger Two in Dragon Age Origins! The first is the battle at Redcliff, you can keep certian people alive and it effects what Bann Teagan says. This is a minor story change. The second and slightly bigger one is fighting Ser Cauthrien before the Landsmeet. Two large possible outcomes to that fight, but the game rewards you for winning an impossible battle. We don't have the Warden cutting Ser Cauthrien's head off and laying waste to the other minions, after slaying every soldier in the castle, getting beat down by some lowly random mook in a cutscene. The story reflected the gameplay.
1. something really bad happened at Kirkwall that sent the world to the brink of war
2. the Champion was involved in it and her whereabouts are unknown to the Seekers, meaning that she didn't leave her corpse at whatever happened in Kirkwall
This right here, would not have been changed or altered at all if the final mage battle was scripted to lose. Would have made Orsino's transformation much more believable. Something bad happens and the Champion is involved.
Mild Confusion on
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
+1
AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited July 2012
I have mentioned this same problem before, but there is a massive disconnect in the fiction that the gameplay creates (the player being a nigh unstoppable murder machine) and whatever fiction the story writer (Bioware) thinks is happening. It's not a reconcilable difference, as the player mows down legions of templar trivially like lemmings and then immediately sees that contradicted. It is simply awful plot and scene writing. There were many ways of doing it much better, including having the odds you face genuinely be overwhelming - instead of how it feels in game which is like lemmings driving themselves into a giant mincing machine (to continue my analogy). Ultimately it simply reinforces the fact the mages are idiots, but bear in mind that you end up with two boss fights no matter what you do. It's just a way of forcing you to do both of them regardless of what you choose and it is frankly a bad one.
Also I would point out that the first time you play Chrono Trigger (to expand on mild confusions point), you are not expected to beat Lavos the first time you meet it. Play a new game plus and accomplish it though, you are rewarded with an entirely different ending. That is far more satisfying and makes a pointless fight have a reward for the skilled or dedicated player (which does in fact mean its inherently not so pointless - but it can seem like that at first). If Bioware are going to out in pointless fights, don't waste my time with it and just use a cutscene to get the same effect. Then at least I don't feel cheated.
I do admit though, I was hoping the thread was bumped due to news of DA3. They have been very silent over it still. Really interested to see if the criticisms of DA2 have struck home or not.
An easier solution to the "where did these bodies come from?" problem is just to flash unavoidable cutscenes of the random mages in the room falling in battle through that fight, because while Hawke can trivially mince up templars it's not realistic to expect her to be able to save every single mage. The fact that you actually can is a problem but a minor one, and I think you're overthinking it.
Thematically, the whole "Hawke can handle herself but the other mages are fucked" had already been established. On her way to the final sequence, Hawke cuts through templars and abominations alike but can't help the dozens of mages she sees who face a choice between getting killed by templars or becoming abominations. Right before the battle you see an extended cutscene of templars mowing down the mage vanguard. By the time the templars even reach Hawke and Orsino, O is already to the point of desperation.
Hawke can't straight-up lose because she still has more fighting to do afterwards, and reviving her for two more boss fights would be as much of a story/gameplay disconnect as "where did these bodies come from?" is.
I always thought the way to fix it would be to switch up the final boss characters depending on the side you support. So, instead of fighting Orsino first, you have an abbreviated Meridith fight (with Orsino chanting some spell to keep the idol's power in check), and then once she died, have him grab the idol for himself and go crazy. That would also play up the importance of the Idol, which I thought was underplayed given how important the Seeker knew it to be. It would also explain a few of the Idiot Ball moments.
What I always found to be rather disconnected was when you fight against the Templars when you are playing as a mage. I'm to believe that after the entire story between Dragon Age 1 and 2 about how Templars are these highly trained banes of all magic-kind, able to at least partially resist magic simply by willing it so, but then somehow Hawke is like, the chosen Templar killer by the gods and can suddenly plot device that all away and turn them into no more than "cave spider" on the farmability checklist?
It didn't even come to a point of concern with me in that game, like "oh, fuckbuckets, maybe I shouldn't mess with these guys considering" was replaced by "oh, more loot!" thematically.
I'm sure the banter will be fine, I just hope they aren't as insufferable as some of the NPCs. You know, pretty much every single one except for varric. And maybe isabella.
That last one sounds dangerously anders-esque.
Also, (DA2 ending spoilers)
At least we're finally going to Orlais. I want to believe that Bioware can do intrigue, I really do. But if it's going to be more argle bargle about mages vs the chantry...ugh. They could have set up great politics stuff without it risking backsliding into that whole mess. Even odds there won't even be a single satisfactory conversation battle too
Spoit on
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PharezonStruggle is an illusion.Victory is in the Qun.Registered Userregular
DA:O made me sick of darkspawn and DA2 made me sick of blood magic, so if neither of those are front and center in DA3, then I'm already sold.
If the protag is an inquisitor, does that mean they're with the seekers, or is that some other chantry arm? Given her background role in DA2 and that she got a movie, I wonder if they're setting up Cassandra as an ally in reverse order from Vega getting a comic before ME3 then a movie.
looks like a survey may have been leaked which reveals the protagonist and four companions in DA3
Tal-Vashoth companion yessss
He may not actually be Tal-Vashoth. Even though they were never really properly expanded on in DA2, the Tal-Vashoth appear to have some kind of code of their own.
Unlike the kossith Maraas, who left both the Qun and the Tal-Vashoth to just be a mercenary.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
This information makes me ask once again.
What about mages?
0
BrocksMulletInto the sunrise, on a jet-ski. Natch.Registered Userregular
So... assuming next-gen starts Q4 2013, and they probably won't release DA3 as a launch title, and they won't release it too close to said launch, where it would get lost, can assume it's coming sometime in spring, 2013? They would have to announce it pretty soon, to get the hype train going.
Honestly, with the way mages work in the universe, it probably be better to just make every player character a mage and leave it up to you whether you develop the skills or not.
So... assuming next-gen starts Q4 2013, and they probably won't release DA3 as a launch title, and they won't release it too close to said launch, where it would get lost, can assume it's coming sometime in spring, 2013? They would have to announce it pretty soon, to get the hype train going.
What about mages? If you mean "where are they"? The first screenshot is of a mage companion. I think the fourth one was too, but it's been taken down so I can't verify that.
What about mages? If you mean "where are they"? The first screenshot is of a mage companion. I think the fourth one was too, but it's been taken down so I can't verify that.
Know...moreso wondering about the role of the MC.
That being said I have a scenario in my head that makes it make sense.
One was a Magister dude who apparently had a bizarre moral compass for a Magister(ie. he has one), one was an upbeat elf thief who loved underworld Orleasian culture, one was a Tal Vashoth mercenary who loved to party and act as unQunari as possible.
The last one was really difficult to read but I think it said something about someone who had been experimented on and lost his memory? Honestly it sounded like it was describing Fenris as a human and without the over the top anger. It was in a different format than the others though and really weird/hard to read.
One was a Magister dude who apparently had a bizarre moral compass for a Magister(ie. he has one), one was an upbeat elf thief who loved underworld Orleasian culture, one was a Tal Vashoth mercenary who loved to party and act as unQunari as possible.
The last one was really difficult to read but I think it said something about someone who had been experimented on and lost his memory? Honestly it sounded like it was describing Fenris as a human and without the over the top anger. It was in a different format than the others though and really weird/hard to read.
Something about fade spirits. Sounded dangerously anders-y
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
One was a Magister dude who apparently had a bizarre moral compass for a Magister(ie. he has one), one was an upbeat elf thief who loved underworld Orleasian culture, one was a Tal Vashoth mercenary who loved to party and act as unQunari as possible.
The last one was really difficult to read but I think it said something about someone who had been experimented on and lost his memory? Honestly it sounded like it was describing Fenris as a human and without the over the top anger. It was in a different format than the others though and really weird/hard to read.
Something about fade spirits. Sounded dangerously anders-y
Why not Wynne-y? Or Kristoff-y? Or Corphyreus-y?
Spirit possession has been a big thing all through the series. Anders is just the most...spectacular variation.
Bioware just loves characters who have lost their memory due to experiments/trauma. See HK-47, Revan, Shale, Fenris, Kang the Mad etc..
And with the possible exception of Fenris, who is borderline, those are all really fun and not emo characters. I could be totally wrong, but they've pulled off this character archetype more than they've fumbled it.
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Ov3rchargeR.I.P. Mass EffectYou were dead to me for yearsRegistered Userregular
Bioware just loves characters who have lost their memory due to experiments/trauma. See HK-47, Revan, Shale, Fenris, Kang the Mad etc..
And with the possible exception of Fenris, who is borderline, those are all really fun and not emo characters. I could be totally wrong, but they've pulled off this character archetype more than they've fumbled it.
Bioware's the only company I know who doesn't get flak for beating the amnesiac trope to death. It's probably because they do it well but still.
Bioware just loves characters who have lost their memory due to experiments/trauma. See HK-47, Revan, Shale, Fenris, Kang the Mad etc..
And with the possible exception of Fenris, who is borderline, those are all really fun and not emo characters. I could be totally wrong, but they've pulled off this character archetype more than they've fumbled it.
Bioware's the only company I know who doesn't get flak for beating the amnesiac trope to death. It's probably because they do it well but still.
Nah, it's just that people are too busy hating them for other reasons.
Bioware just loves characters who have lost their memory due to experiments/trauma. See HK-47, Revan, Shale, Fenris, Kang the Mad etc..
And with the possible exception of Fenris, who is borderline, those are all really fun and not emo characters. I could be totally wrong, but they've pulled off this character archetype more than they've fumbled it.
Bioware's the only company I know who doesn't get flak for beating the amnesiac trope to death. It's probably because they do it well but still.
It's because at least some of those characters are so awesome that you don't even notice how much the trope has been done to death.
I mean who doesn't love
HK-47 and how many people do you think are squeeing over the fact that we'll eventually be able to have him as an additional companion in SWTOR?! He's one of the most memorable droid characters in games, heck he's one of the memorable droid characters in fiction, period.
Shale is fun in a similar way to HK-47, and the fact that they're both so entertainly sarcastic and dervisive may be the key to why they work so well despite the overused trope. There's just something delightful about really well done put-downs.
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Also, has anyone seen the Dragon Age animated movie?
Really crappy film.
the main character is a sociopath with the most stereotypical backstory/motivations ever(oh noes the blood mages killed my brother). The first thing she apparently does when she meets someone new is threaten to kill them.
Also, the blood mages killed exactly zero people with magic in the movie. Instead, they stabbed people. Seriously. Blood mages killed the main character's brother with a scythe. They STAB Templars to death. Pretty much the only magic ever shown is arcane bolt and one time the stereotypical ugly evil Mage shapeshifts(shape shifting isn't blood magic! It is its own specialization in DA:O!).
Also, apparently, Blood Mages had a dozen golems and ogres under the house of an elf with down syndrome just waiting for him to squeal.
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Hopefully they never do the godbaby because not everyone went that route.
Also because Morrigan is an awful character and nobody should care about her ever, but I guess that one's more of an opinion thing.
edit: I would like a plot where Flemeth has a larger role. Not even going into her backstory or anything. I just want her to talk more, really. Maybe make fun of Morrigan some more, make fun of all my companions some more. Just get Kate Mulgrew to narrate the story in Flemeth's voice, whatever.
Posts
And while I liked the game, I did feel the ending fights went on too long, especially considering the game makes you fight both Orsino and Meredith, each of which has multiple part fights, one after another with a couple of filler fights between. When Meredith summoned up all of the statues for like the fifth time I couldn't help but get annoyed, the fight stopped being epic and I just wanted it to be other. This is contrasted with the ending fight against the archdemon, which was a suspensful fight to the end with me.
Other than that I loved the setting and the gameplay immensely. I had so much fun with primal and force magic, and the campaign was overall a lot of fun.
and when he transformed, the templars had in fact just breached the room
so while Hawke could handle herself, Orsino actually had a pretty good reason to believe that he and everybody else was fucked
Except it depends on
It's like at the end of the Uldred boss fight in Origins. Even if you save them all, everyone but Irving drops dead after the fight.
And yeah, I understand they weren't going to include that until it was decided that both ends had to have two boss fights.
That FFVII PSP prequal or Halo: Reach is an example of how that battle should have gone.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
I always feel guilty about giving Maric's sword to anyone other than Alistair or myself. I also feel guilty about selling equipment with "sentimental" value, like the Cousland family shield or Duncan's weapons.
I know what you mean. Maric's armor and weapons always go on Alstair.
If I do sell something, it's only to (camp follower, forget his name).
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Yeah, that shield thing was one of the few things DA2 did well. Other than the fact that it was almost kreia levels of nitpickery
because two things were established in the first two minutes of the game
1. something really bad happened at Kirkwall that sent the world to the brink of war
2. the Champion was involved in it and her whereabouts are unknown to the Seekers, meaning that she didn't leave her corpse at whatever happened in Kirkwall
I think you missed my point.
What I am saying is that if you choose the mages, there is a severe disconnect between what you play and what's in the story.
In the gameplay portion, Hawke destroys dozens of templars and not a single mage will go down. Again, this is in the actual gameplay. You feel like a badass because you are a badass. Then, once the battle is over and the cutscene takes place, there are suddenly mage bodies everywhere, even though it didn't happen in the gameplay portion. It's jarring, because the playing portion has you winning, yet the story says the mages are dropping like flies.
Many games have situations like this, in which the character or characters side is supposed to lose. Most standard games simply make an impossible situation for you to win. A couple of examples:
Chrono Trigger: First battle with Lavos
Xenogears: Bart's fight with Id
FFVII Crisis Core: Zacks final battle
Halo Reach: Noble 6's final fight
All the above have the gameplay reflect the change in the story, the hero is supposed to fail. In this case, Hawke cannot save the mages, period. No matter how well you fight, it will happen. So what the game should have done is send more and more waves at you until you eventually lost.
If you are going to have a fight where you can win, you better have a story continuation that follows the gameplay. Example:
Again, Chrono Trigger
Two in Dragon Age Origins! The first is the battle at Redcliff, you can keep certian people alive and it effects what Bann Teagan says. This is a minor story change. The second and slightly bigger one is fighting Ser Cauthrien before the Landsmeet. Two large possible outcomes to that fight, but the game rewards you for winning an impossible battle. We don't have the Warden cutting Ser Cauthrien's head off and laying waste to the other minions, after slaying every soldier in the castle, getting beat down by some lowly random mook in a cutscene. The story reflected the gameplay.
This right here, would not have been changed or altered at all if the final mage battle was scripted to lose. Would have made Orsino's transformation much more believable. Something bad happens and the Champion is involved.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Also I would point out that the first time you play Chrono Trigger (to expand on mild confusions point), you are not expected to beat Lavos the first time you meet it. Play a new game plus and accomplish it though, you are rewarded with an entirely different ending. That is far more satisfying and makes a pointless fight have a reward for the skilled or dedicated player (which does in fact mean its inherently not so pointless - but it can seem like that at first). If Bioware are going to out in pointless fights, don't waste my time with it and just use a cutscene to get the same effect. Then at least I don't feel cheated.
I do admit though, I was hoping the thread was bumped due to news of DA3. They have been very silent over it still. Really interested to see if the criticisms of DA2 have struck home or not.
Thematically, the whole "Hawke can handle herself but the other mages are fucked" had already been established. On her way to the final sequence, Hawke cuts through templars and abominations alike but can't help the dozens of mages she sees who face a choice between getting killed by templars or becoming abominations. Right before the battle you see an extended cutscene of templars mowing down the mage vanguard. By the time the templars even reach Hawke and Orsino, O is already to the point of desperation.
Hawke can't straight-up lose because she still has more fighting to do afterwards, and reviving her for two more boss fights would be as much of a story/gameplay disconnect as "where did these bodies come from?" is.
It didn't even come to a point of concern with me in that game, like "oh, fuckbuckets, maybe I shouldn't mess with these guys considering" was replaced by "oh, more loot!" thematically.
That last one sounds dangerously anders-esque.
Also, (DA2 ending spoilers)
Yessssssssssss. THE INQUISITOR AS MAIN CHARACTER.
If the protag is an inquisitor, does that mean they're with the seekers, or is that some other chantry arm? Given her background role in DA2 and that she got a movie, I wonder if they're setting up Cassandra as an ally in reverse order from Vega getting a comic before ME3 then a movie.
Unlike the kossith Maraas, who left both the Qun and the Tal-Vashoth to just be a mercenary.
What about mages?
Steam: BrocksMullet http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972421669/
Honestly, with the way mages work in the universe, it probably be better to just make every player character a mage and leave it up to you whether you develop the skills or not.
Have they said it will be a next gen title?
3DS: 1607-3034-6970
Know...moreso wondering about the role of the MC.
That being said I have a scenario in my head that makes it make sense.
The last one was really difficult to read but I think it said something about someone who had been experimented on and lost his memory? Honestly it sounded like it was describing Fenris as a human and without the over the top anger. It was in a different format than the others though and really weird/hard to read.
Spirit possession has been a big thing all through the series. Anders is just the most...spectacular variation.
And with the possible exception of Fenris, who is borderline, those are all really fun and not emo characters. I could be totally wrong, but they've pulled off this character archetype more than they've fumbled it.
Bioware's the only company I know who doesn't get flak for beating the amnesiac trope to death. It's probably because they do it well but still.
Nah, it's just that people are too busy hating them for other reasons.
Steam: BrocksMullet http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972421669/
It's because at least some of those characters are so awesome that you don't even notice how much the trope has been done to death.
I mean who doesn't love
Shale is fun in a similar way to HK-47, and the fact that they're both so entertainly sarcastic and dervisive may be the key to why they work so well despite the overused trope. There's just something delightful about really well done put-downs.
The best.
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Really crappy film.
Also, the blood mages killed exactly zero people with magic in the movie. Instead, they stabbed people. Seriously. Blood mages killed the main character's brother with a scythe. They STAB Templars to death. Pretty much the only magic ever shown is arcane bolt and one time the stereotypical ugly evil Mage shapeshifts(shape shifting isn't blood magic! It is its own specialization in DA:O!).
Also, apparently, Blood Mages had a dozen golems and ogres under the house of an elf with down syndrome just waiting for him to squeal.
It was so bad you guys. So, so bad.
Hopefully they never do the godbaby because not everyone went that route.
Also because Morrigan is an awful character and nobody should care about her ever, but I guess that one's more of an opinion thing.
edit: I would like a plot where Flemeth has a larger role. Not even going into her backstory or anything. I just want her to talk more, really. Maybe make fun of Morrigan some more, make fun of all my companions some more. Just get Kate Mulgrew to narrate the story in Flemeth's voice, whatever.
3DS: 1607-3034-6970