Because DA2 was a huge mistake by most accounts. Sold less than DA:0, critically regarded as a worse game, DLC plans cut short, etc.
DA:0 had waaaaaay more lore and world building than DA2 did, and did better critically and commercially. Ergo, hoping that they'd acknowledge errors and course-correct shouldn't be that far fetched, should it?
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Hopefully they never do the godbaby because not everyone went that route.
Also because Morrigan is an awful character and nobody should care about her ever, but I guess that one's more of an opinion thing.
edit: I would like a plot where Flemeth has a larger role. Not even going into her backstory or anything. I just want her to talk more, really. Maybe make fun of Morrigan some more, make fun of all my companions some more. Just get Kate Mulgrew to narrate the story in Flemeth's voice, whatever.
Oh, they can kill Morrigan for all I care. She's incidental to the lore.
Also, on Mages/Templars, I should point out that they handled that part of the lore just fine in DA:0 as a side plot.
Now tell me: what good or new thing at all came from making it a central part of DA2?
And with that in mind, do you really think they have anything else good or new to add to that conflict?
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Well, you see, the templars are Nazis, but on the other hand the mages are jews with Satan powers. It's quite complex and reflects on the real world, see?
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Don't ever expect answers to those first two questions anytime soon. The first one is religion, and Bioware has said they do NOT want to give a real answer to it. The same with Andraste, btw. They do not want to just give a "This is how it is" answer to the religion they created. They far prefer people to just have to pick a side and take it on faith.
As for the second question, that's not canon for a lot of people (including me). I wouldn't expect it to be mentioned anytime soon. They'll probably wait another five or six years before bringing it up, and when they do it'll probably just be a character with a mysterious past that they never give any real confirmation on.
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Don't ever expect answers to those first two questions anytime soon. The first one is religion, and Bioware has said they do NOT want to give a real answer to it. The same with Andraste, btw. They do not want to just give a "This is how it is" answer to the religion they created. They far prefer people to just have to pick a side and take it on faith.
As for the second question, that's not canon for a lot of people (including me). I wouldn't expect it to be mentioned anytime soon. They'll probably wait another five or six years before bringing it up, and when they do it'll probably just be a character with a mysterious past that they never give any real confirmation on.
Nothing else on the Black City? But they had a Tevinter Mage who had visited there on the DA2 dlc(which played like crap but still had the best story of the game).
Look, I understand that sometimes in a sequel, narrowing focus is a good thing(see Silent Hill 2). But that only applies if the narrow focus has something new to say.
Everything of value regarding Mages/Templars was handled fine in DA:0. DA2 actually damaged that narrative because no matter what you did, everything the Mages said about the Templars was always true, and everything the Templars said about the Mages was also always true.
It even damaged the characters. Anders went from likable joker with a fondness for cats in Awakening into mass murdering terrorist who out-and-out lied to you even if he was a love interest. That is not consistent characterization. Fenric and Carver were defined by their hatred of Mages and nothing else. the entire trek to the Deep Roads was done solely to provide a macguffin that would make the knight commander even more of a bitch.
And I'm supposed to believe that DA3 has a fun new way to beat this dead horse for a whole other game? When even the goddamn codex of the first game had more intriguing lore and concepts by the end of the first act than the entirety of DA2, codex, characters, and all? Hell, I could say the same for Awakening's codex, for that matter(not to mention I'd argue that Awakening is a better game than DA2 even though it is DLC).
I gotta say though, this sounds underwhelming to me.
Looks like the Mage vs Templar conflict is taking center stage yet again. Lame. What about the Black City? What about the god baby? What about anything other than the goddamn Templars and Mages again? I don't need another Mage going Abomination drinking game, Bioware.
Don't ever expect answers to those first two questions anytime soon. The first one is religion, and Bioware has said they do NOT want to give a real answer to it. The same with Andraste, btw. They do not want to just give a "This is how it is" answer to the religion they created. They far prefer people to just have to pick a side and take it on faith.
As for the second question, that's not canon for a lot of people (including me). I wouldn't expect it to be mentioned anytime soon. They'll probably wait another five or six years before bringing it up, and when they do it'll probably just be a character with a mysterious past that they never give any real confirmation on.
Nothing else on the Black City? But they had a Tevinter Mage who had visited there on the DA2 dlc(which played like crap but still had the best story of the game).
I'm just saying that Bioware has said since the time DA2 was completed and DA3 began being worked on that they do not want to give players any specific answers as to the Black City, the Maker, or Andraste. They want to leave them as mysteries in the world where you get pieces here and there, but never find the straight up truth yourself.
Look, I understand that sometimes in a sequel, narrowing focus is a good thing(see Silent Hill 2). But that only applies if the narrow focus has something new to say.
Everything of value regarding Mages/Templars was handled fine in DA:0. DA2 actually damaged that narrative because no matter what you did, everything the Mages said about the Templars was always true, and everything the Templars said about the Mages was also always true.
Yeah, imagine that, neither side is good or evil. They're both just two sides, with both good and bad people on them. You never see that in the world, after all.
Okay, sarcasm aside, I thought the one truly good thing they did in DA2 was make it so both sides were led by assholes and neither side was innocent. Both had some truly terrible people in charge and their inability to put aside their differences and step back doomed them. Shit does not hit the fan when you have moderate, reasonable people in charge. It hits the fan when the people in charge are monkeys throwing poo at it.
Of course, then Bioware ruined it by not letting Hawke tell them this and abandon both sides.
It even damaged the characters. Anders went from likable joker with a fondness for cats in Awakening into mass murdering terrorist who out-and-out lied to you even if he was a love interest. That is not consistent characterization. Fenric and Carver were defined by their hatred of Mages and nothing else. the entire trek to the Deep Roads was done solely to provide a macguffin that would make the knight commander even more of a bitch.
I think everyone agrees that DA2 Anders is terrible, and that whoever thought up his character changes for DA2 is terrible.
And I'm supposed to believe that DA3 has a fun new way to beat this dead horse for a whole other game? When even the goddamn codex of the first game had more intriguing lore and concepts by the end of the first act than the entirety of DA2, codex, characters, and all? Hell, I could say the same for Awakening's codex, for that matter(not to mention I'd argue that Awakening is a better game than DA2 even though it is DLC).
I do not see this as a dead horse. It's like saying that Allies vs Axis is a dead horse so no one should ever make a WW2 game again.
...
Okay, actually, I believe that, so I guess I can see how someone would find it a dead horse. Still, unlike you, I am quite interested in the Templar/Mage war, and I do have faith that Bioware can pull it off.
See, I feel that DA2 was an experiment for Bioware. They wanted to try a different type of game, one that focused on a limited scope with a protagonist who simply can't win when the situation is two heated, explosive sides that simply refuse to get along. Kind of like real life. Lets face it, could you, or me, or any one man walk into Israel and in two conversations end the violence between them and the Arabs in the region?
And while the experiment fell flat on its face, I'm not going to fault Bioware for attempting something new. Don't we always rail against companies who just do more of the same and never take risks? Yes, Bioware took a risk and it failed. But should we condemn them or the franchise for all of eternity because of one failure?
I don't think so. Now, if Dragon Age 3 comes out and its Dragon Age 2 Part B, then yes, we can condemn them for not learning their lessons. But if they do learn their lessons from DA2 and put out an excellent game, then I think it'll end up fine.
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
I think DA2 was a decent but not amazing game, that needed more time in the oven and had lots of good ideas in it. The amount of hate it gets is WAAYYY out of proportion.
Man I fucking loved DA2. Liked it way more than Origins. I know it has its flaws, but yeah, I'll never understand the hate for it.
If DA3 is basically DA2 but with more development time and polish, I'd be more than happy with that
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surrealitychecklonely, but not unloveddreaming of faulty keys and latchesRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Yeah, I definitely hope they continue some of the elements. Making the combat system more responsive and interesting, improving the visual style, having a cool frame narrative, etc
Plus from the DA2 DLC I got the idea they really listened to and tried to implement the constructive feedback that they got on the game. More original environments, even better party banter, less spawning enemy groups in the middle of battle.
I also actually like the Mage/Templar war! Mages 4ever.
I honestly don't care if we never see another darkspawn again. They're not antagonists, they're a force of nature. It's like fighting a horde of rats, or a swarm of locusts, or a hurricane or something. Conflicts between people are way more interesting.
I think that Origins reflected this, too. Who's the primary villain in that game? It's not the Archdemon, who doesn't even acknowledge your existence until it's time to shove a sword through its brain, it's Logain. He's the one who betrays you, and sends omni-sexual elven assassins after you, and opposes you at every step of your journey. Origins' climax is you taking down Logain. The Battle of Denerim is just an action-packed denouement.
I was really excited by the direction that things were going in at the end of DA2. I mean, the schism between the Chantry, the Templars, and the Circle means that the entire social order of the Andrastan parts of Thedas is collapsing. That should be a situation that provides opportunities for some great storytelling.
I think the main difference between DA:O and DA:2 regarding the Mage/Templar conflict is that while we see and learn about it in the former, we really get to experience it in its entirety in the latter, especially if you play as a Mage. And, really, the idea of it being a feedback loop has a lot of merit. The problem is that, aside from Hawke, we never see anyone else rise above the stereotype. That, unfortunately, undermines the whole thing, as pretty much every Mage we encounter resorts to blood magic, or becomes an Abomination, or does something else heinous when pushed into a corner, and pretty much every Templar ultimately becomes a bloodthirsty murderer (or would-be murderer). We never really get to see anyone actually remain good or noble or honest, and that just kills any emotional investment into the whole thing.
It's been a while since I played DA:2, but looking back, the Qunari chapter was by far my favorite. It really felt the most polished and the best written. That said, I'm having trouble trying to figure out where it fits thematically with the last chapter. The two just feel entirely disconnected to me.
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That, unfortunately, undermines the whole thing, as pretty much every Mage we encounter resorts to blood magic, or becomes an Abomination, or does something else heinous when pushed into a corner, and pretty much every Templar ultimately becomes a bloodthirsty murderer (or would-be murderer). We never really get to see anyone actually remain good or noble or honest, and that just kills any emotional investment into the whole thing.
Bethany never resorts to blood magic. And that ugly guy who only told people he was a Blood Mage in a desperate attempt to seem sexy and dangerous. And...
Erm...
Well, there was also that one Qunari mage in Shepherding Wolves. But I wouldn't exactly consider him a shining example of magehood either.
I think the main difference between DA:O and DA:2 regarding the Mage/Templar conflict is that while we see and learn about it in the former, we really get to experience it in its entirety in the latter, especially if you play as a Mage. And, really, the idea of it being a feedback loop has a lot of merit. The problem is that, aside from Hawke, we never see anyone else rise above the stereotype. That, unfortunately, undermines the whole thing, as pretty much every Mage we encounter resorts to blood magic, or becomes an Abomination, or does something else heinous when pushed into a corner, and pretty much every Templar ultimately becomes a bloodthirsty murderer (or would-be murderer). We never really get to see anyone actually remain good or noble or honest, and that just kills any emotional investment into the whole thing.
Actually, this isn't true.
*Merril uses Bloodmagic, but never uses other peoples blood. She also does not become an abomination.
*If Bethany survives, she never uses blood magic.
*In Act 3, there's an entire segment of templars who side against Meredeth as she looses her mind
*In the Templar ending, you can order that any mage who does not resist and does not use blood magic to be spared and protected.
The best example, though, starts in Dragon Age with Cullen. When you meet him in the Mage Origin Story he is soft-hearted and has a lot of sympathy for the mages. After his experience at the hands of Uldred, he becomes anti-mage due to the torture he went through. As DA2 starts, he is still very anti-mage, but through the course of the game he softens again, until in the Templar ending, he overtly defies Meredeth and refuses to straight up kill all the mages in the tower, refusing to harm anyone who isn't using blood magic.
Edit: Also, I would like to say, I do not hate DA2. Since we are discussing its faults at the moment, so that is what I am sticking to.
Bethany is a non-Carver Hawke. She's one of the few characters in the extended cast who isn't a complete fuckwit.
Merril is a fuckwit. Her actions, at best, cause her to be shunned by her own people and eventually lead to the death of their leader. At worst, she causes the death of her entire village. Then again, I find her to be at least as bad as Anders, so I really can't stand her.
The Templars sided against Meredeth because she ordered Hawke to be executed after originally saying he was only to be arrested, and then she admitted she had a magic sword taken from the Deep Roads (where the Darkspawn live...), and then proclaimed everyone to be Blood Mage thralls, and then uses her magic powers to fight against every one.
Never got to the Templar ending. I finished it with a male Mage Hawke, and then got about 2/3rds of the way through with a female Rogue Hawke, so I can't comment.
But, yeah. A couple exceptions don't erase the overall trend we experience throughout the majority of the game. Just about every quest that deals with human Mages results in a fight against Blood Mages and/or Abominations.
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Yeah, I liked DA2 a hell of a lot more than origins partially because I actually felt like the Mage/Templar conflict was the best direction to take the series. I like it because there isn't really a good solution and neither side is inherently at fault. Choosing to enslave a group of people because of the circumstances of their birth is pretty monstrous. Letting those same people go free though tends to lead to people like Conner who almost killed an entire village and could easily have become a greater threat. Or you get things like the Tevinter Imperium.
Plus,
having a Magister's perspective should be fairly interesting. So far all the mage companions have been defined by the circle or the elven tribal structure. Tevinter is pretty much the only magical tradition we haven't seen yet.
DA:0 had waaaaaay more lore and world building than DA2 did,
In what universe would you expect a sequel to compare on world-building with the introductory title to a new IP that took 7 years to make? I agree with many complaints about Kirkwall but trying to compare them on this score is ridiculous.
Now tell me: what good or new thing at all came from making it a central part of DA2?
It's infinitely more interesting than boring generic orcs and a land sickness practically transcribed from WoT? If we never see darkspawn (even the name positively drips with ennui) again I'll be happy. Of course DA2 took its theme and drove it into the ground, so I'm pretty sick of that too, but at least the concept can be interesting if they don't mangle it, which is more than I can say for oh lord the grimbeasts are coming.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Yep. Really, I'm glad that the DA-game's avoided the orcs n' shit trope that is so popular in fantasy games. That to say it isn't fun sometimes but I do like seeing different stuff every now and then.
Being a member of the Inquisition sounds awesome. It'll make it reasonable to make your character evil without being too out of place.
Actually, I hope they add "Batshit Insane" to their response options, it would fit.
I'm ambivalent to DA2. I love the Arishok and the combat, hate the repeating environments and chapter 3.
And Anders. Fuck Anders.
Truth be told, I kinda hope that the Mage vs Templars conflict serves as backdrop for the main story in DA3. The war could be ongoing and even serve as the main thing in act 1, but whatever real problem would overshadow it later, then we could nicely wrap up the war on our way to kill the main villain.
If the Mage v Templars thing is the main issue in two games in a row, I'll be disappoint.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
It looks like most of the images have been taken down.
DA3 hasn't even been officially announced yet. I don't think Bioware wants leaks this early in the process.
Good luck with that. Bioware has been a sieve lately.
Comes with achieving mainstream success and being picked up by EA.
Before the first Mass Effect (one could also say KotOR), they were a relatively small insular studio that produced critical darlings that never really set sales on fire (save BG2).
After they were/are now exposed to shitloads more scrutiny and with recent major gaffes, they're prime targets for generating pageviews.
No matter where you go...there you are. ~ Buckaroo Banzai
I don't know...after playing a few ARPGs back to back I'm not quite sure I still love DA2 or RPGs in general. I mean, if you want an ARPG go all the way.
I don't know...after playing a few ARPGs back to back I'm not quite sure I still love DA2 or RPGs in general. I mean, if you want an ARPG go all the way.
Yes, I've expressed this sentiment before too.
DA:O was a little too fast to be truly tactical
DA:2 wasn't responsive enough to be truly action
I don't know...after playing a few ARPGs back to back I'm not quite sure I still love DA2 or RPGs in general. I mean, if you want an ARPG go all the way.
The problem was that they didn't go full action
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited August 2012
Hmm...I wouldn't say that you have great enough control of your actions to consider DA2 anywhere close to an ARPG.
When I think of ARPG I would say something more like Kingdoms Hearts or Mass Effect. That being said ARPG is pretty loose and I guess you could consider anything not turn-based to be action.
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BrocksMulletInto the sunrise, on a jet-ski. Natch.Registered Userregular
I don't know...after playing a few ARPGs back to back I'm not quite sure I still love DA2 or RPGs in general. I mean, if you want an ARPG go all the way.
The problem was that they didn't go full action
Problem is, there are already several very good fantasy ARPG's on the market right now, and at least one sci-fi one. They might benefit from taking a step back in that regard. They're the only party based WRPG on the market, other than the Zeboyd games, and maybe the upcoming South Park RPG, but that's only two characters. They should take advantage.
Yeah, but all of those ARPGs are in different subgenres. The only one that would be in the same black isle/bioware C&C umbrella would be the witcher. Which, yeah, I guess they can't really compete with very well
I'm ambivalent to DA2. I love the Arishok and the combat, hate the repeating environments and chapter 3.
And Anders. Fuck Anders.
Truth be told, I kinda hope that the Mage vs Templars conflict serves as backdrop for the main story in DA3. The war could be ongoing and even serve as the main thing in act 1, but whatever real problem would overshadow it later, then we could nicely wrap up the war on our way to kill the main villain.
If the Mage v Templars thing is the main issue in two games in a row, I'll be disappoint.
Are you me?
---
I hope we get a town/city that's more interesting to look at than Kirkwall. My lasting impression of that place is walls.
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ShadowenSnores in the morningLoserdomRegistered Userregular
edited August 2012
Yeah, Dragon Age 2 was, mechanically, the superior game. I don't know if any of you noticed (/sarcasm), but at times Origins was a goddamn chore to play. And while mages are still OP, I can stand that in 2 because it's a) thematically appropriate and b) not to the extreme of Origins (and especially Awakening). I also think the story of 2 was, if not exactly better, then more mature than "humans and elves and dwarves vs. [let's face it] orcs part 1 billion".
However, Origins was better at storytelling, and while the lack of a defined look for each party member means it loses a little something in comparison, the ability to outfit them as needed and not the way their personal fashion sense insisted, as well as to determine weapons loadouts, was more believable. Really? Warriors can't ever use a bow? Ever?
...yeah, I could probably go down every single feature point by point and it would almost come out to a draw between the games. I think I prefer Origins just because there's more polish to it, but 2 does not deserve the flack it gets. (Bioware does for releasing it more or less unfinished, but...)
Posts
black city and Flemeth and whatever shenanigans are sure to be a part of it but not part of the synopsis
DA:0 had waaaaaay more lore and world building than DA2 did, and did better critically and commercially. Ergo, hoping that they'd acknowledge errors and course-correct shouldn't be that far fetched, should it?
Oh, they can kill Morrigan for all I care. She's incidental to the lore.
Now tell me: what good or new thing at all came from making it a central part of DA2?
And with that in mind, do you really think they have anything else good or new to add to that conflict?
Don't ever expect answers to those first two questions anytime soon. The first one is religion, and Bioware has said they do NOT want to give a real answer to it. The same with Andraste, btw. They do not want to just give a "This is how it is" answer to the religion they created. They far prefer people to just have to pick a side and take it on faith.
As for the second question, that's not canon for a lot of people (including me). I wouldn't expect it to be mentioned anytime soon. They'll probably wait another five or six years before bringing it up, and when they do it'll probably just be a character with a mysterious past that they never give any real confirmation on.
Nothing else on the Black City? But they had a Tevinter Mage who had visited there on the DA2 dlc(which played like crap but still had the best story of the game).
Look, I understand that sometimes in a sequel, narrowing focus is a good thing(see Silent Hill 2). But that only applies if the narrow focus has something new to say.
Everything of value regarding Mages/Templars was handled fine in DA:0. DA2 actually damaged that narrative because no matter what you did, everything the Mages said about the Templars was always true, and everything the Templars said about the Mages was also always true.
It even damaged the characters. Anders went from likable joker with a fondness for cats in Awakening into mass murdering terrorist who out-and-out lied to you even if he was a love interest. That is not consistent characterization. Fenric and Carver were defined by their hatred of Mages and nothing else. the entire trek to the Deep Roads was done solely to provide a macguffin that would make the knight commander even more of a bitch.
And I'm supposed to believe that DA3 has a fun new way to beat this dead horse for a whole other game? When even the goddamn codex of the first game had more intriguing lore and concepts by the end of the first act than the entirety of DA2, codex, characters, and all? Hell, I could say the same for Awakening's codex, for that matter(not to mention I'd argue that Awakening is a better game than DA2 even though it is DLC).
I'm just saying that Bioware has said since the time DA2 was completed and DA3 began being worked on that they do not want to give players any specific answers as to the Black City, the Maker, or Andraste. They want to leave them as mysteries in the world where you get pieces here and there, but never find the straight up truth yourself.
Yeah, imagine that, neither side is good or evil. They're both just two sides, with both good and bad people on them. You never see that in the world, after all.
Okay, sarcasm aside, I thought the one truly good thing they did in DA2 was make it so both sides were led by assholes and neither side was innocent. Both had some truly terrible people in charge and their inability to put aside their differences and step back doomed them. Shit does not hit the fan when you have moderate, reasonable people in charge. It hits the fan when the people in charge are monkeys throwing poo at it.
Of course, then Bioware ruined it by not letting Hawke tell them this and abandon both sides.
I think everyone agrees that DA2 Anders is terrible, and that whoever thought up his character changes for DA2 is terrible.
I do not see this as a dead horse. It's like saying that Allies vs Axis is a dead horse so no one should ever make a WW2 game again.
...
Okay, actually, I believe that, so I guess I can see how someone would find it a dead horse. Still, unlike you, I am quite interested in the Templar/Mage war, and I do have faith that Bioware can pull it off.
See, I feel that DA2 was an experiment for Bioware. They wanted to try a different type of game, one that focused on a limited scope with a protagonist who simply can't win when the situation is two heated, explosive sides that simply refuse to get along. Kind of like real life. Lets face it, could you, or me, or any one man walk into Israel and in two conversations end the violence between them and the Arabs in the region?
And while the experiment fell flat on its face, I'm not going to fault Bioware for attempting something new. Don't we always rail against companies who just do more of the same and never take risks? Yes, Bioware took a risk and it failed. But should we condemn them or the franchise for all of eternity because of one failure?
I don't think so. Now, if Dragon Age 3 comes out and its Dragon Age 2 Part B, then yes, we can condemn them for not learning their lessons. But if they do learn their lessons from DA2 and put out an excellent game, then I think it'll end up fine.
I will be interested to see what DA3 is like
If DA3 is basically DA2 but with more development time and polish, I'd be more than happy with that
I also actually like the Mage/Templar war! Mages 4ever.
I think that Origins reflected this, too. Who's the primary villain in that game? It's not the Archdemon, who doesn't even acknowledge your existence until it's time to shove a sword through its brain, it's Logain. He's the one who betrays you, and sends omni-sexual elven assassins after you, and opposes you at every step of your journey. Origins' climax is you taking down Logain. The Battle of Denerim is just an action-packed denouement.
I was really excited by the direction that things were going in at the end of DA2. I mean, the schism between the Chantry, the Templars, and the Circle means that the entire social order of the Andrastan parts of Thedas is collapsing. That should be a situation that provides opportunities for some great storytelling.
It's been a while since I played DA:2, but looking back, the Qunari chapter was by far my favorite. It really felt the most polished and the best written. That said, I'm having trouble trying to figure out where it fits thematically with the last chapter. The two just feel entirely disconnected to me.
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Bethany never resorts to blood magic. And that ugly guy who only told people he was a Blood Mage in a desperate attempt to seem sexy and dangerous. And...
Erm...
Well, there was also that one Qunari mage in Shepherding Wolves. But I wouldn't exactly consider him a shining example of magehood either.
Thank you. I always feel like the only one in this thread.
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Actually, this isn't true.
*If Bethany survives, she never uses blood magic.
*In Act 3, there's an entire segment of templars who side against Meredeth as she looses her mind
*In the Templar ending, you can order that any mage who does not resist and does not use blood magic to be spared and protected.
The best example, though, starts in Dragon Age with Cullen. When you meet him in the Mage Origin Story he is soft-hearted and has a lot of sympathy for the mages. After his experience at the hands of Uldred, he becomes anti-mage due to the torture he went through. As DA2 starts, he is still very anti-mage, but through the course of the game he softens again, until in the Templar ending, he overtly defies Meredeth and refuses to straight up kill all the mages in the tower, refusing to harm anyone who isn't using blood magic.
Edit: Also, I would like to say, I do not hate DA2. Since we are discussing its faults at the moment, so that is what I am sticking to.
Merril is a fuckwit. Her actions, at best, cause her to be shunned by her own people and eventually lead to the death of their leader. At worst, she causes the death of her entire village. Then again, I find her to be at least as bad as Anders, so I really can't stand her.
The Templars sided against Meredeth because she ordered Hawke to be executed after originally saying he was only to be arrested, and then she admitted she had a magic sword taken from the Deep Roads (where the Darkspawn live...), and then proclaimed everyone to be Blood Mage thralls, and then uses her magic powers to fight against every one.
Never got to the Templar ending. I finished it with a male Mage Hawke, and then got about 2/3rds of the way through with a female Rogue Hawke, so I can't comment.
But, yeah. A couple exceptions don't erase the overall trend we experience throughout the majority of the game. Just about every quest that deals with human Mages results in a fight against Blood Mages and/or Abominations.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
Plus,
You're not.
Yep.
DA2's gameplay was a complete blast, and the decisions had heft. It could have been done a whole lot better, but hey, it's fun.
And my Axe!
What's with the bump in activity in the DA thread? Is there DA3 news?
Some companions from DA3 supposedly got leaked.
That's weird, I feel like I'm the only one who actually liked DAO in this thread too :P
In what universe would you expect a sequel to compare on world-building with the introductory title to a new IP that took 7 years to make? I agree with many complaints about Kirkwall but trying to compare them on this score is ridiculous.
It's infinitely more interesting than boring generic orcs and a land sickness practically transcribed from WoT? If we never see darkspawn (even the name positively drips with ennui) again I'll be happy. Of course DA2 took its theme and drove it into the ground, so I'm pretty sick of that too, but at least the concept can be interesting if they don't mangle it, which is more than I can say for oh lord the grimbeasts are coming.
Being a member of the Inquisition sounds awesome. It'll make it reasonable to make your character evil without being too out of place.
Actually, I hope they add "Batshit Insane" to their response options, it would fit.
And Anders. Fuck Anders.
Truth be told, I kinda hope that the Mage vs Templars conflict serves as backdrop for the main story in DA3. The war could be ongoing and even serve as the main thing in act 1, but whatever real problem would overshadow it later, then we could nicely wrap up the war on our way to kill the main villain.
If the Mage v Templars thing is the main issue in two games in a row, I'll be disappoint.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
DA3 hasn't even been officially announced yet. I don't think Bioware wants leaks this early in the process.
Good luck with that. Bioware has been a sieve lately.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
Hell...stuff gets leaked so much that sometimes I wonder if it isn't intentional.
Comes with achieving mainstream success and being picked up by EA.
Before the first Mass Effect (one could also say KotOR), they were a relatively small insular studio that produced critical darlings that never really set sales on fire (save BG2).
After they were/are now exposed to shitloads more scrutiny and with recent major gaffes, they're prime targets for generating pageviews.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Yes, I've expressed this sentiment before too.
DA:O was a little too fast to be truly tactical
DA:2 wasn't responsive enough to be truly action
The problem was that they didn't go full action
When I think of ARPG I would say something more like Kingdoms Hearts or Mass Effect. That being said ARPG is pretty loose and I guess you could consider anything not turn-based to be action.
Problem is, there are already several very good fantasy ARPG's on the market right now, and at least one sci-fi one. They might benefit from taking a step back in that regard. They're the only party based WRPG on the market, other than the Zeboyd games, and maybe the upcoming South Park RPG, but that's only two characters. They should take advantage.
Steam: BrocksMullet http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197972421669/
Are you me?
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I hope we get a town/city that's more interesting to look at than Kirkwall. My lasting impression of that place is walls.
Switch: SW-3515-0057-3813 FF XIV: Q'vehn Tia
However, Origins was better at storytelling, and while the lack of a defined look for each party member means it loses a little something in comparison, the ability to outfit them as needed and not the way their personal fashion sense insisted, as well as to determine weapons loadouts, was more believable. Really? Warriors can't ever use a bow? Ever?
...yeah, I could probably go down every single feature point by point and it would almost come out to a draw between the games. I think I prefer Origins just because there's more polish to it, but 2 does not deserve the flack it gets. (Bioware does for releasing it more or less unfinished, but...)