The Wesbtoro Church folk are actually based around a bunch of lawyers, and fund a lot of their shitmaking by suing the everloving fuck out of any town that goes too far restricting their speech. They're also pretty much the worst human beings on the planet.
I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Now if you accept that hell is actually real, like they do, that's the most monstrous fucking act imaginable. Like, 'worse than Hitler' would not actually be hyperbole within their worldview.
Isn't it Satan and Satan's servant who tempt people to hell?
It sounds like they have literally allied themselves with my good buddy Lucifer and yet they think they will be in the chosen group at the end of days!
By their own logic aren't they the worst kind of sinner for trying to get others to sin?
Isn't that actually the same, if not worse, by their own worldview, as homosexuals recruiting the weak into lives of sin?
Pretty sure Christ and Satan teamed up to allocated a great spot in the worst part of hell just for those morons, if any of that was real.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
The Wesbtoro Church folk are actually based around a bunch of lawyers, and fund a lot of their shitmaking by suing the everloving fuck out of any town that goes too far restricting their speech. They're also pretty much the worst human beings on the planet.
I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Now if you accept that hell is actually real, like they do, that's the most monstrous fucking act imaginable. Like, 'worse than Hitler' would not actually be hyperbole within their worldview.
But if you believe in hell and in God, then God is the one sending people to Hell, so if he's convinced by their antics to send people to hell then who's the real monster here?
Man is the real monster. Wait, no God is. Or gays.
The best person I've ever seen handle the Westboro church and their demonstrations was Micheal Moore. There was a clip in the previous thread where he showed up to one of their "God hates fags" demonstrations with a lot of gay dudes, and they all just started making out in front of the protesters until they left.
It's actually pretty genius if you think about it. Although, I doubt all the gay or transgender make out sessions in the world will make Texas grow up.
Witch_Hunter_84 on
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
The Wesbtoro Church folk are actually based around a bunch of lawyers, and fund a lot of their shitmaking by suing the everloving fuck out of any town that goes too far restricting their speech. They're also pretty much the worst human beings on the planet.
I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Now if you accept that hell is actually real, like they do, that's the most monstrous fucking act imaginable. Like, 'worse than Hitler' would not actually be hyperbole within their worldview.
The part I love best about this sort of thing is how these people 1) believe in an almighty, omniscient being and 2) think that said being will let them get off on a technicality.
But the founder is a lawyer, so what do you expect.
So I have a question for all you texans in here. All I hear lately is the terrible stuff Texas has been doing, but most of it requires them to remove or change some existing thing which is not so terrible. When did this not-so-terrible stuff come into being that they are destroying?
I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Reminds me of the story of the preacher talking about god with an Eskimo.
An Eskimo hunter asks a missionary, "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" The missionary responds, "No." The Eskimo hunter then asks, "Then why did you tell me?"
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
An Eskimo hunter asks a missionary, "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" The missionary responds, "No." The Eskimo hunter then asks, "Then why did you tell me?"
And now I remembered Terry Pratchett's corollary: "This is, generally, why missionaries need to be killed on sight wherever encountered."
The Wesbtoro Church folk are actually based around a bunch of lawyers, and fund a lot of their shitmaking by suing the everloving fuck out of any town that goes too far restricting their speech. They're also pretty much the worst human beings on the planet.
I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Now if you accept that hell is actually real, like they do, that's the most monstrous fucking act imaginable. Like, 'worse than Hitler' would not actually be hyperbole within their worldview.
They worship a deity who is so stupid that he won't see that they're actually turning people away from him?
The best person I've ever seen handle the Westboro church and their demonstrations was Micheal Moore. There was a clip in the previous thread where he showed up to one of their "God hates fags" demonstrations with a lot of gay dudes, and they all just started making out in front of the protesters until they left.
It's actually pretty genius if you think about it. Although, I doubt all the gay or transgender make out sessions in the world will make Texas grow up.
Louis Theroux has done two with them that are apparently quite good, not seen that or the Michael Moore one to compare them but Louis was actually staying with them. At least one of the daughters ending up actually leaving the church because of it (largely just through exposure to the outside world), and she invited them back to do a second one.
Well, if they're actually Calvinists, they believe that God has already decided ahead of time who is saved and who will burn in Hell. Basically, God created the good folks, and then created a bunch of other folks for the express purpose of letting them burn in Hell, and nothing those other folks can do will make any difference. Because it's all preordained.
So their God is not stupid so much as he's a truly monstrous asshole.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
Well, if they're actually Calvinists, they believe that God has already decided ahead of time who is saved and who will burn in Hell. Basically, God created the good folks, and then created a bunch of other folks for the express purpose of letting them burn in Hell, and nothing those other folks can do will make any difference. Because it's all preordained.
So their God is not stupid so much as he's a truly monstrous asshole.
I'm curious how this Calvinism thing gained any traction in the first place when no reading of the bible, even a very poor reading, will give you these ideas.
-edit-
A little light reading suggests that this Calvin fellow and his buddies come from the "lets make shit up and then find stuff in the bible that will kind of half-assed support our ideas if no one looks closely" school of theology.
Well, if they're actually Calvinists, they believe that God has already decided ahead of time who is saved and who will burn in Hell. Basically, God created the good folks, and then created a bunch of other folks for the express purpose of letting them burn in Hell, and nothing those other folks can do will make any difference. Because it's all preordained.
So their God is not stupid so much as he's a truly monstrous asshole.
Hey, maybe they're all non-person constructs that have no sense of self?
Maybe it's only the good folks that have souls?
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
The Pilgrims that founded America were Calvinists, if I recall.
Explains a lot.
Also, in school most American kids are taught that the Pilgrims came to America because of religious persecution in Europe. What the schools fail to mention is that the Pilgrims were basically run out of where ever they were because other people couldn't stand what horrible fucking people they were.
It's basically the equivalent of the Klan bitching about how people don't respect their First Amendment rights.
Everything about American history that I was taught prior to middle school was offensive, reprehensible garbage. Everything in middle school was inexcusably abbreviated or simply wrong. And in high school it was merely abbreviated (except for the Holocaust which was covered ad nauseum).
At no point was it ever well or even passably taught, and the material was never good.
Everything about American history that I was taught prior to middle school was offensive, reprehensible garbage. Everything in middle school was inexcusably abbreviated or simply wrong. And in high school it was merely abbreviated (except for the Holocaust which was covered ad nauseum).
The Pilgrims that founded America were Calvinists, if I recall.
Explains a lot.
Also, in school most American kids are taught that the Pilgrims came to America because of religious persecution in Europe. What the schools fail to mention is that the Pilgrims were basically run out of where ever they were because other people couldn't stand what horrible fucking people they were.
It's basically the equivalent of the Klan bitching about how people don't respect their First Amendment rights.
Some of the Puritans that eventually migrated to the American colonies originally went to Holland to avoid persecution in England, because Holland was one of the only European countries of that era with a political culture of religious tolerance.
Most of them decided to leave about half a generation later because said widespread religious tolerance was causing their children to abandon Puritainism for the multiple other less uptight religious options openly practiced by the Dutch.
The Pilgrims that founded America were Calvinists, if I recall.
Explains a lot.
Also, in school most American kids are taught that the Pilgrims came to America because of religious persecution in Europe. What the schools fail to mention is that the Pilgrims were basically run out of where ever they were because other people couldn't stand what horrible fucking people they were.
It's basically the equivalent of the Klan bitching about how people don't respect their First Amendment rights.
From what I learned, Calvinism was everywhere back then, especially in the place they stopped at between Britain and America. The real reason that they were chased out was their unhealthy obsession with Catholics (which is really something given that even normal Anglicans had hate boners for the Catholics).
As for why Calvinism is around, it's basically the answer you get when you start asking how an omniscient being doesn't know how you're going to turn out: he does.
The Pilgrims that founded America were Calvinists, if I recall.
Explains a lot.
Also, in school most American kids are taught that the Pilgrims came to America because of religious persecution in Europe. What the schools fail to mention is that the Pilgrims were basically run out of where ever they were because other people couldn't stand what horrible fucking people they were.
It's basically the equivalent of the Klan bitching about how people don't respect their First Amendment rights.
Some of the Puritans that eventually migrated to the American colonies originally went to Holland to avoid persecution in England, because Holland was one of the only European countries of that era with a political culture of religious tolerance.
Most of them decided to leave about half a generation later because said widespread religious tolerance was causing their children to abandon Puritainism for the multiple other less uptight religious options openly practiced by the Dutch.
Right, it was a whole lot less about people being able to freely practice religion and a whole lot more about being able to create a theocratic society that matched their theos. Fuck, folks don't get that not only did folks in Massachusetts burn witches at the stake, they hung quakers.
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They moistly come out at night, moistly.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
I thought they just hung witches in Massachusetts (instead of burning them, I mean).
I thought they just hung witches in Massachusetts (instead of burning them, I mean).
And only during an especially hysteric period. The state had already become fairly cosmopolitan by that time, if memory serves.
It was basically the result of a bunch of retarded local disputes in a rural town making people more likely to believe accusations against people they already had vague suspicions of. They were basically the Satanic ritual scares of the 1600s.
The best person I've ever seen handle the Westboro church and their demonstrations was Micheal Moore. There was a clip in the previous thread where he showed up to one of their "God hates fags" demonstrations with a lot of gay dudes, and they all just started making out in front of the protesters until they left.
It's actually pretty genius if you think about it. Although, I doubt all the gay or transgender make out sessions in the world will make Texas grow up.
Well, if they're actually Calvinists, they believe that God has already decided ahead of time who is saved and who will burn in Hell. Basically, God created the good folks, and then created a bunch of other folks for the express purpose of letting them burn in Hell, and nothing those other folks can do will make any difference. Because it's all preordained.
So their God is not stupid so much as he's a truly monstrous asshole.
It gets worse - you're expected to find fault with yourself for anything bad that happens. Lighting struck your windmill? Damn, dude, what did you do? It created an obsession with seeking hidden sin that is pretty much the root cause of, well, Texas.
Modern religious conservatives like to extend this to the national stage. Economy in the shitter, tornadoes destroy a swath of the south, black president? We, as a nation, are becoming too permissive of deviant lifestyles.
It's probably best if people think of John Calvin as John Cavil and it will make a lot more sense. I'm so, so so, so glad he's another important historical figure in the country I grew up in!
John is born a male. Undergoes sex change operation to become Jane.
Jane wants to marry Alice. Texas still considers Jane to be a man. Therefore, under Texas law, the marriage is legal.
It just makes a clusterfucky situation even more clusterfucky.
See, if they want to simplify it, just make it
Are both of you an adult? Y/N
IF ADULT GOTO LICENSE
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
John is born a male. Undergoes sex change operation to become Jane.
Jane wants to marry Alice. Texas still considers Jane to be a man. Therefore, under Texas law, the marriage is legal.
It just makes a clusterfucky situation even more clusterfucky.
So I have a question for all you texans in here. All I hear lately is the terrible stuff Texas has been doing, but most of it requires them to remove or change some existing thing which is not so terrible. When did this not-so-terrible stuff come into being that they are destroying?
not Texan, but I'm relatively certain like 95% of the not-so-terrible things are actually unintended side effects of drafting up new terrible policies without carefully considering exactly what would be changed.
Marriage is between one man with M on his long-form birth certificate and one woman with F on her long-form birth certificate. It's in the Bible.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
Texas marriage certificates now must carry genital-prints of each party being married. They're like fingerprints, except you dip your labia/dong-and-ballsack in ink and slap it on the paper in front of the county clerk and a notary.
In a sad way I hope the do this, just so the male-transMale and transFemale-Female marriages can be conducted, and the lawsuits that will cause. Also if god could light more of the state on fire, that'd be cool too.
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Don't worry too much about it. It wasn't on purpose.
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I came to this realization because of an NPR interview with one of the daughters where she laid out WHY they do things the way that they do: they think God is pissed because we tolerate homosexuality, etc, etc, etc standard nutso church fair. They make their protests so distasteful intentionally so that the message (no more gays, God rules, etc) will be rejected; they want their message to be ignored, so that everyone who hears it burns in hell for eternity.
Now if you accept that hell is actually real, like they do, that's the most monstrous fucking act imaginable. Like, 'worse than Hitler' would not actually be hyperbole within their worldview.
Isn't it Satan and Satan's servant who tempt people to hell?
It sounds like they have literally allied themselves with my good buddy Lucifer and yet they think they will be in the chosen group at the end of days!
By their own logic aren't they the worst kind of sinner for trying to get others to sin?
Isn't that actually the same, if not worse, by their own worldview, as homosexuals recruiting the weak into lives of sin?
Pretty sure Christ and Satan teamed up to allocated a great spot in the worst part of hell just for those morons, if any of that was real.
But if you believe in hell and in God, then God is the one sending people to Hell, so if he's convinced by their antics to send people to hell then who's the real monster here?
Man is the real monster. Wait, no God is. Or gays.
It's actually pretty genius if you think about it. Although, I doubt all the gay or transgender make out sessions in the world will make Texas grow up.
The part I love best about this sort of thing is how these people 1) believe in an almighty, omniscient being and 2) think that said being will let them get off on a technicality.
But the founder is a lawyer, so what do you expect.
I feel like "smacks of" is such an understatement it's ridiculous.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
They mean smacks with an I-beam or a girder or something similar.
Reminds me of the story of the preacher talking about god with an Eskimo.
An Eskimo hunter asks a missionary, "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?" The missionary responds, "No." The Eskimo hunter then asks, "Then why did you tell me?"
So their Calvinists?
Because Calvinists make the very best loonies.
And now I remembered Terry Pratchett's corollary: "This is, generally, why missionaries need to be killed on sight wherever encountered."
They worship a deity who is so stupid that he won't see that they're actually turning people away from him?
Louis Theroux has done two with them that are apparently quite good, not seen that or the Michael Moore one to compare them but Louis was actually staying with them. At least one of the daughters ending up actually leaving the church because of it (largely just through exposure to the outside world), and she invited them back to do a second one.
So their God is not stupid so much as he's a truly monstrous asshole.
I'm curious how this Calvinism thing gained any traction in the first place when no reading of the bible, even a very poor reading, will give you these ideas.
-edit-
A little light reading suggests that this Calvin fellow and his buddies come from the "lets make shit up and then find stuff in the bible that will kind of half-assed support our ideas if no one looks closely" school of theology.
Hey, maybe they're all non-person constructs that have no sense of self?
Maybe it's only the good folks that have souls?
Explains a lot.
Also, in school most American kids are taught that the Pilgrims came to America because of religious persecution in Europe. What the schools fail to mention is that the Pilgrims were basically run out of where ever they were because other people couldn't stand what horrible fucking people they were.
It's basically the equivalent of the Klan bitching about how people don't respect their First Amendment rights.
At no point was it ever well or even passably taught, and the material was never good.
Slavery, too. The Holocaust and slavery.
Some of the Puritans that eventually migrated to the American colonies originally went to Holland to avoid persecution in England, because Holland was one of the only European countries of that era with a political culture of religious tolerance.
Most of them decided to leave about half a generation later because said widespread religious tolerance was causing their children to abandon Puritainism for the multiple other less uptight religious options openly practiced by the Dutch.
From what I learned, Calvinism was everywhere back then, especially in the place they stopped at between Britain and America. The real reason that they were chased out was their unhealthy obsession with Catholics (which is really something given that even normal Anglicans had hate boners for the Catholics).
As for why Calvinism is around, it's basically the answer you get when you start asking how an omniscient being doesn't know how you're going to turn out: he does.
Right, it was a whole lot less about people being able to freely practice religion and a whole lot more about being able to create a theocratic society that matched their theos. Fuck, folks don't get that not only did folks in Massachusetts burn witches at the stake, they hung quakers.
And only during an especially hysteric period. The state had already become fairly cosmopolitan by that time, if memory serves.
It was basically the result of a bunch of retarded local disputes in a rural town making people more likely to believe accusations against people they already had vague suspicions of. They were basically the Satanic ritual scares of the 1600s.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_fAYl4Th4
I can never hate Moore, not after the Sodomobile.
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It gets worse - you're expected to find fault with yourself for anything bad that happens. Lighting struck your windmill? Damn, dude, what did you do? It created an obsession with seeking hidden sin that is pretty much the root cause of, well, Texas.
Modern religious conservatives like to extend this to the national stage. Economy in the shitter, tornadoes destroy a swath of the south, black president? We, as a nation, are becoming too permissive of deviant lifestyles.
Which is funny, because catholicism is still pretty fucking regressive.
The inquisition was in full swing at that point.
See, if they want to simplify it, just make it
Are both of you an adult? Y/N
IF ADULT GOTO LICENSE
YOU FORGOT TO LEAVE ROOM FOR JESUS
not Texan, but I'm relatively certain like 95% of the not-so-terrible things are actually unintended side effects of drafting up new terrible policies without carefully considering exactly what would be changed.