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The TV Thread: More for Less

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  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I played some 360 this afternoon and didn't notice it then, but I didn't turn it back to any static images to see if I could see it. I ran the panasonic bar pass by image retention thing for about 45 minutes beforehand though; after I made my post earlier.

    I wouldn't say it's just ghosting since I hadn't played any 4:3 movies for her this morning when I noticed it. I saw it on Toy Story during the Pixar screen. It is exactly where the black bars are on her movies; and I don't know if those have been on since a couple days ago. And they're all only 30m long, tops, so it's not like the bars are there often or for long periods.

    I guess I don't know the difference between image retention and burn-in. I should turn it on and see if I can see anything right now.

    EDIT: yeah, just checked; it's still there. On moving images or non-static color images, it's hard to tell unless you're looking for it. the more complex the harder it is to see. However, if I'm just one the Blu-Ray player menu, or something else white or bright, it's really obvious where the lines are on both sides of the scren.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Do I need to make a dvd for that or something/ I don't see an option in the tv.

    No. Change the input to the internal tv tuner, then select an empty channel.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • orionminusorionminus Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Just hooked up my PS3 Slim and my Xbox 360 S model to my new HDTV using the same HDMI 1.4 cables and I have got to ask:

    Does the PS3 home screen looks better than the Xbox 360 dashboard to you guys?

    I'm running both in 1080p and Widescreen and when I switched between the two, I saw a difference.

    Not night and day difference but it was definitely noticeable.

    Or am I just high?

    Edit:

    Oh I see:

    The 360 dashboard is rendered at 1280x720 while the XMB is rendered at 1920x1080.

    Unless someone has some new/different insights?

    orionminus on
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    orionminus wrote: »
    Just hooked up my PS3 Slim and my Xbox 360 S model to my new HDTV using the same HDMI 1.4 cables and I have got to ask:

    Does the PS3 home screen looks better than the Xbox 360 dashboard to you guys?

    I'm running both in 1080p and Widescreen and when I switched between the two, I saw a difference.

    Not night and day difference but it was definitely noticeable.

    Or am I just high?

    Edit:

    Oh I see:

    The 360 dashboard is rendered at 1280x720 while the XMB is rendered at 1920x1080.

    Unless someone has some new/different insights?

    Did you set your 360 to 1080?

    You have to change the switch on the cord and in the options on the Xbox.

    Burtletoy on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Do I need to make a dvd for that or something/ I don't see an option in the tv.

    No. Change the input to the internal tv tuner, then select an empty channel.

    Doing this now but I don't think I can leave it on for 2 days.

    I have another issue though; it looks like my TV settings is telling it to turn on "bright" (i.e. gray) bars in 4:3 content, however on DVD's that are 4:3 it has black bars. I think this is my blu-ray player doing it but I'm not 100% certain and there doesn't seem to be any settings, that I can find, on my blu-ray player that lets me change the 4:3 bars. It's a Panasonic DMP-BDT210 btw if anyone knows the model/line and can help me out.

    EDIT: Ah, i Just found the setting to just stretch 4:3 to the full 16:9. The 4:3 stuff we have is uh..either my P90X/Insanity workout videos or my daughters elmo shows, neither of which I care about the image, so I guess that'll work.

    I'm noticing that even with only an hour or so of static, the lines are lessened than what they previously were. Hopefully I can get it back to being mostly unnoticable and never put 4:3 crap on the screen again.

    The Wii will be a problem however; several games don't fill up the screen when played "widescreen" for some odd reason.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Cowboom (BestBuy) was selling the 60" mitsubishi DLP for $500 this morning.

    Deal was dead before I even saw it :(

    Burtletoy on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    OOoooookay.

    I think my tv is just borked. I ran static on the screen for two days and between that and changing the settings on my blu-ray player to automatically stretch 4:3 to 16:9 so I don't get bars anymore, the burn-in bars aren't nearly as noticible as before. I can still see them on bright screens but the entire rest of the time I don't notice them really.

    However, since then I've noticed another issue. Everything is ghosting. Any menu anything that is on the screen for even a minute will still be visible on a bright screen. For instance, I used the Amazon player via my blu-ray player last night to watch a few episodes of Doctor Who. The Amazon menus were never on screen for more than a minute, if even that. However this afternoon when I turned the TV on again to do my workout, when the title screen flashed on, which is mostly white, I could still read the menu options from the Amazon player from the night before. I couldn't see it when there was moving pictures, but I find it hard to believe that this is normal behavior for a plasma tv. Or maybe it is? If so that's really disappointing.

    The image on this tv is great but there are so many things about it that really bug me that I'm finding myself regretting going plasma instead of LCD. Maybe it's just a bad set; I don't know. I'm going to contact Panasonic and talk to someone with support to see if I can get this figured out, because it's not cool at all. Permanent burn-in less than two months after purchase with the bars never on the screen for more than an hour at a time, tops, a couple days a week, tops; and all this ghosting. Not happy, at all.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    That should absolutely not be happening

    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    woo hoo canned responses from panasonics live support! This is going well!

    EDIT: "Now, I do want to inform you that image retention is not covered under the warranty"

    Now I do want to tell you to go fuck yourself for selling me a faulty product.

    EDIT EDIT: They referred me to an authorized service center but keeps repeating that it will not be covered under the warranty.

    Fuck you Panasonic. Shit I watched last night and was on the screen for a minute is not fucking burn in you dipshits. That's a faulty TV.

    Yeah, will not ever purchase from panasonic again ever. This is bullshit.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Explain the ghosting to them. Or take it back to the store for a refund, and get a Samsung?

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • The Dude With HerpesThe Dude With Herpes Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I explained the ghosting to them several times. The rep just kept repeating the "burn in isn't covered by the warranty" line every time I tried to clarify it. They didn't want to listen at all.

    And it's outside of the return period. i bought it two months ago, and it was Amazon anyway. I'll look into taking it to a service center when I go out of town in a couple weeks. I don't have the time or vehicle to get it there otherwise. But I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to get any assistance from Panasonic on this at all, and I'm not willing to pay more of my own money for this thing.

    I'm not sure I could be more disappointed and frustrated with this whole ordeal.

    The Dude With Herpes on
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  • DarkwyndreDarkwyndre Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Just sue Panasonic. It will cost a bit up front, but they will almost certainly settle with you for more than the cost of the television and lawyer expenses.

    It sucks that it takes a lawsuit or threat of a lawsuit to get companies to actually stand behind their products these days, but that's generally what it takes.

    Usually just the initial letter from a lawyer is enough to change the tune though.

    Darkwyndre on
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  • GuibsGuibs Weekend Warrior Somewhere up North.Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    chasm wrote: »
    My TV is the LG 55LW5600. It's passive, does 2D->3D and vice-versa, and the glasses are $8 apiece.

    How much is the input lag on that TV when playing games in game mode? Also, how much of a drop in black level do you take in game mode (usually disable some local dimming and well, we all know IPS panels are great but had bad black levels, local dimming in other modes fixes this).

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  • MetroidZoidMetroidZoid Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    I'm so glad I found this thread; once me and the wife get a few more bills paid off, our next venture is a not-box-set-from-an-80's-sitcom television.

    It has knobs goddammit!

    Anyways, I know this one is waaaaay out of my price range, but this is a question of curiosity instead: I saw a very fancy 3D the other day. I think it was ~42". Minimal, uh, frame around the screen. It was also not in a 3D demo mode, just normal 1080 broadcasting Tangled. Now, the difference between watching that movie at our house, and watching that on this tv, was that besides the much sharper image detail, this movie well moved funny. The best way I can phrase this was that it looked more like a video game, and not a cutscene but like the best 'in-game' footage. I really couldn't tell if it was because there was a motion blur, or maybe there wasn't and I'm used to it at home. Does a higher refresh rate make that worse or better? Does it just loop back again? Either way, it kind of turned me off to watching computer-animated movies on that kind of screen. Not that I'm worried about that issue on our next purchase; our friends have a 46" and Shrek and all that looked fine on theirs.

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    They could have had some sort of interpolation activated, which is something you can turn off. That has the TV artificially create frames to fill in timing gaps to make it appear to move more smoothly. I'm a big fan of watching things how the director/mixer intended, so I don't use that.

    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    They could have had some sort of interpolation activated, which is something you can turn off. That has the TV artificially create frames to fill in timing gaps to make it appear to move more smoothly. I'm a big fan of watching things how the director/mixer intended, so I don't use that.

    That's exactly what it is. Motion blur (which is inherent with shooting film/video at 24 fps with a 1/48 sec shutter) is one of the big things used to make CG look "real" and blend with live action. TVs that add frames to reduce the from-the-source motion blur (which is different from a high refresh rate which can reduce LCD-caused motion blur) basically eliminates one of the biggest tools for making CG look right. It also (obviously) affects all-CG animation in a similar way.

    I still remember the first time I saw frame interpolation in action at Best Buy, and I thought Harry Potter was being intercut between the movie and videogame. It's a horrible technology that needs to die.

    jimb213 on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Or studios need to start shooting at 60 fps.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited June 2011
    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • jimb213jimb213 Registered User regular
    edited June 2011
    Or studios need to start shooting at 60 fps.

    Some are moving that direction. The Hobbit is being shot at 48 fps, and the new Red cameras allow just about any framerate under 100 fps to be used (and can now shoot up to 300fps for slow motion at a lower resolution). I don't know how much something like that will be accepted since the general population has had almost 100 years of conditioning that 24fps = cinema, and 50 or 60 years of more-than-24fps = news/soaps/video/cheap.

    Regardless of how a movie is captured & produced though, the main thing I want is for my TV to display it how the director and cinematographer intended (like skoal cat already said). I don't want my TV creating frames that aren't there. I want it to accurately display the correct number of frames for the correct amount of time.

    jimb213 on
  • Donovan PuppyfuckerDonovan Puppyfucker A dagger in the dark is worth a thousand swords in the morningRegistered User regular
    edited July 2011
    60 fps shot at a 2K resolution would look fucking fantastic, though.

    Donovan Puppyfucker on
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    The LED driven DLPs by Mitsubishi are pretty much the greatest things ever, though the LaserVues (LASERS!!!!!) are pretty fucking solid.

    Which of their DLPs use LED lamps?

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited July 2011
    Skoal Cat wrote: »
    The LED driven DLPs by Mitsubishi are pretty much the greatest things ever, though the LaserVues (LASERS!!!!!) are pretty fucking solid.

    Which of their DLPs use LED lamps?

    Old models unfortunately, no longer available. They perfected the technology about the same time LCDs grew up and Plasmas dropped in price enough for people to say, "I can afford that thin one!" Its depressing, really. 73" 1080p TV about a foot thick for like, $1000? Are you fucking kidding me?

    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Ah, but they still make them with halogen lamps. Odd.

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  • chasmchasm Ill-tempered Texan Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Higher profit margin. The fewer TVs you sell, the more margin you need.

    chasm on
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  • lowlylowlycooklowlylowlycook Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    Yeah, I guess the problem is that no one else is competing so Mitsubishi isn't pressured to make the better DLP sets.

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  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited July 2011
    No one is competing because there just isn't a demand for DLPs anymore, which is unfortunate.

    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Raziel_pmRaziel_pm Registered User regular
    I've owned a Samsung 61" DLP for the last (going on) 5 years, and I've only needed to replace the bulb once(and that one was covered by warranty last year). As far as I'm concerned, I won't be buying another TV until they 1. Don't make bulbs for it anymore, or 2. a rez higher than 1080p becomes the "reasonably priced" norm.

    I use it as my PC monitor too, so it's basically the hub for everything digital in my life ^_^

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  • KalTorakKalTorak One way or another, they all end up in the Undercity.Registered User regular
    I don't have cable, and I'm currently using an indoor OTA antenna (this one http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=109&cp_id=10901&cs_id=1090101&p_id=4729&seq=1&format=2 ). Is there any reason to try and find a "better" one, or is one pretty much as good as another? I get a decent number of digital channels, but the reception is spotty depending on its position or the position of people in the apartment...

  • TNTrooperTNTrooper Registered User regular
    So my grandmother just got a 42LK450 but is having a problem where the picture keeps going from light to dark. Did she pick a bad model, receive a crappy unit from the store, or could it be something else? She doesn't have any internet so she just called me and now I have to troubleshoot a TV 2000 miles away.

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  • ParielPariel Registered User regular
    edited July 2011
    OK, I've got a question:

    I found this TV, which claims 240Hz. Now, if I remember correctly, it's only getting at most 60Hz, so is it interpolating 3/4 of the frames?

    Not at all interested in buying this television, I was looking at some other Vizios and found it.

    Pariel on
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    I'm fairly certain that TVs will only display (in Hz terms) whatever the source is feeding it. If its getting a 60 Hz feed, it displays in 60 Hz. It does not change that 60Hz to 120Hz or anything else.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • ParielPariel Registered User regular
    Well that can't be right because interpolation can "add" frames (assuming a set has the feature). It's literally the TV displaying a 60Hz feed at 120Hz.

    My question is whether having a 240Hz panel is in any way useful.

  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    I really think that interpolation is separate from the Hz
    And in theory, 240Hz could be really useful for 3D, being able to send 120 Hz to each eye.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Lord JezoLord Jezo Registered User regular
    edited August 2011
    I notice the OP doesn't have CRT listed in his Types of TV section. Elitist.

    Am I the only guy on the block left with a non flat screen? I have a 36" Sony Wega CRT monitor. It does 720p/1080i and has component and HDMI ports on the back. Because it's a CRT it also does true blacks and has unlimited viewing angles.

    The downside? It's just a tad under 250 lbs and two feet deep. Trying to move it requires three people. When I turn it on the tub being energized is loud enough to scare the dog.

    One day I will get rid of it, almost did a few days ago when I had to take it off of it's shelf, became quite annoyed at how much of a beast it is, but the wife wants a new fridge now, so my TV plans have been pushed back a ways.

    Lord Jezo on
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  • ParielPariel Registered User regular
    Yes, yes you are.

    Even my parents have a (small) flat screen, and they don't even have cable.

  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Your Wega has a curved screen?

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Lord JezoLord Jezo Registered User regular
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Your Wega has a curved screen?

    Nope. It's a pure flat screen.

    Just has 24 inches of cathode ray tube behind it

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  • JasconiusJasconius sword criminal mad onlineRegistered User regular
    Dear The TV Thread

    I think I need a tiny TV. To go on my desk, something less than 20 inches, which can receive a digital cable input and show SD channels

    What should I be looking for?

  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Do you have digital cable? (yes, you do)

    Buy a monitor?

  • Professor SnugglesworthProfessor Snugglesworth Registered User regular
    This seems like the best place to ask: What's the current standard on 3D televisions? I was thinking of upgrading my current TV (Samsung 4095D) to a 3D one. Since it would be for personal use (in my room, where at the most there would be a second person watching with me, and that's only on rare occasions), I could live with using a pair of glasses.

    I don't plan to go through with this until Thanksgiving, and since the 3D market seems to be all over the place, I'm wondering if the quality will be better, the TVs will be cheaper, or that by then they'll start rolling out glasses-free TVs.

    But in any case, I'm open to suggestions now regarding quality sets. I'm especially keen on Motion Plus; my grandmother has it on her, and I tried a couple of PS3 games with it. The results vary, but when they work it's pretty damn stunning (Uncharted).

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