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The TV Thread: More for Less

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Posts

  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    Burtletoy wrote:
    It's based on being able to individually discern every pixel.

    Unless I'm reading thing wrong, no, it isn't.

    The algorithm explains that it is used to calculate the distance at which a viewer can discern "every critical detail". That means seeing every individual pixel—not missing any details.

    It's the same formula that was floated around when people were arguing about whether human eyes actually CAN discern individual pixels on the iPhone 4's Retina display. Which is just a useless thing to figure out because it has no bearing on actual perceived image quality. Just like this chart with TV figures.

    The thing is, even before the "full benefit" of 480p is visible, you can start to see the benefit of 720p and 1080p. These figures are not linear. They overlap a great deal. That's what the chart doesn't show. The human eye doesn't JUST start seeing the advantage of 720p after it reaches the "maximum" benefit of 480p. It begins seeing that well before it can discern every detail of 480p.

    minor incident on
    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    edited September 2011
    There's way more to the differences between SD and HD content than just the resolution, though.

    SD TV broadcasts have a pathetic bitrate (1-2 mbps MPEG-2), HD TV broadcasts are slightly better than a good DVD (14 mbps MPEG-2 vs. 10-12 mbps MPEG-2), while well-mastered BR content is 36-45 mbps MPEG-4, which is more like 50+mbps MPEG-2 content. In your hypothetical 36" TV at 10 feet, this is where the apparent quality difference between BR and DVD is coming from, not the resolution. The 1080p content would also have the benefit of already being at the native resolution of the TV and not being passed through the (generally poor quality) scalers that the 480p content would.

    What the chart says is that if you have two panels of the same size and at the same distance of different resolutions with otherwise identical characteristics (black level, color accuracy, etc) fed the exact same content from a lossless scaler, then it would not be possible to resolve details below a certain point no matter what the display is actually showing. The true flaw of the equation used to make it is that it calculates visual acuity based on a static image, not a moving image (which our brains do all kinds of shortcuts on to improve).

    I agree with Burtletoy that the differences you were seeing were due to either source or display differences, not science being wrong.

    a5ehren on
  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    I didn't claim the science was wrong. The algorithm is as correct as any we have, I just take issue with how they draw conclusions from that data.

    My point is simple and accurate in the real world: You don't NEED to hit the point where you can discern every detail in 480p before you start seeing a noticeable increase in video quality at 720p.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited September 2011
    Ugh. Just sit as close as you can to the biggest TV you can get.

    Skoal Cat on
    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    Ugh. Just sit as close as you can to the biggest TV you can get.

    Sound advice!

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • DasUberEdwardDasUberEdward Registered User regular
    edited September 2011
    So whenever I connect to the wireless networking on our Toshiba 40S51U the remote control stops working.

    Any advice?

    edit: okay now it doesn't give me any response other than I think the volume button with or without the wireless connection.

    double edit: okay so there was a newer version of the firmware online that I put on a USB device that should fix the problem. I downloaded it. Inserted the flash drive.

    "Would you like to update your software? Please select Yes or No with your remote."

    Daffy face.

    DasUberEdward on
  • orionminusorionminus Registered User
    So what's the word on LED vs Plasma vs LCD for gaming?

    Plasma still the king or has it been surpassed yet?

  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    King of what, I guess is the question. And quality, I mean the best LCD is going to beat the worst plasma.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • orionminusorionminus Registered User
    Skoal Cat wrote:
    King of what, I guess is the question. And quality, I mean the best LCD is going to beat the worst plasma.

    For gaming.

    As in ghosting or lag issues.

  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Short answer: they're both great.

    Long answer: they both have different strengths and weaknesses, but none of the classic stereotypes are really true any longer. Plasma don't burn in and LCDs don't have miserable viewing angles. For 50+ inches you'll get more bang for your buck with plasma. Under 50 inches and it'll be LCD.

    If you really want to pick nits, plasma have nicer blacks, but a good LCD can match a good plasma even in those regards if you buy the right one (read: spend enough money). That said, plasma are still thicker, heavier, hotter, and more energy hungry than LCDs, if those are important factors for you.

    Buy what fits your budget and needs. If 3D is a big concern, you can definitely get a better experience there without spending a lot by going plasma. Otherwise there's not muuuuuch reason to even care about the tech behind the panel.

    minor incident on
    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • BurtletoyBurtletoy Registered User regular
    Also; room viewing conditions.

  • orionminusorionminus Registered User
    Understood, thanks for the info guys.

  • OwenashiOwenashi Registered User regular
    I lucked out this weekend by receiving my first HDTV as a present; a Dynex 32-inch. It was an out of the box purchase from Best Buy however and the remote sadly didn't come with it. This wouldn't be too much of a problem except that the TV's stuck on Mono and I can't change it to Stereo since it's only doable via remote. Does anyone know of any universal remote that has a MTS/SAP button? Preferably one that lets me keep my arm and leg.

  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Hey folks, any thoughts on this Sony model as a TV for a small apartment? It's on sale at local chain for $299

    :so_raven:
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Sony is good and that is a fair price for a good 32"

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • CorvusCorvus . VancouverRegistered User regular
    Sold. Slighlty more expensive than I'd anticipated with taxes and recycling levies, but whatever.

    :so_raven:
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    My wife and I just bought a house and I will be transforming the basement into a home theater in the next month. Couple questions:

    1- Are projectors worth looking into? I have a good 500sf to play with and only small windows to black out. I do want to stay in the 1000$ canadian range for one.

    2- If light is not an issue are plasmas still the way to go? and if so are Panasonic still king?

    My 42" Samsung plasma is going to be the "main room" tv. This is just for me to watch action movies and play games.

    Disco11 on
    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • SaurfangSaurfang Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Heya TV thread, how does this Toshiba from Fry's look?

    Edit: I should clarify, I would be shipping this should I order it.

    Saurfang on
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Disco11 wrote:
    My wife and I just bought a house and I will be transforming the basement into a home theater in the next month. Couple questions:

    1- Are projectors worth looking into? I have a good 500sf to play with and only small windows to black out. I do want to stay in the 1000$ canadian range for one.

    2- If light is not an issue are plasmas still the way to go? and if so are Panasonic still king?

    My 42" Samsung plasma is going to be the "main room" tv. This is just for me to watch action movies and play games.

    If you have (or can get) complete light control and have space for a big-ass (100"+) screen, a projector is the way to go. I'm not sure what prices are like up North, but this site is a good place to start looking: http://www.projectorcentral.com/

    If you don't want to go with a projector, plasmas are still king. Some calibrators actually prefer the high-end Samsung models this year (due to color management), but you can't go wrong with Panasonic either.

  • ackack Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    so ~5 hours of playing dark souls now i have some hot burn-in

    two hours of watching a channel and now suddenly the logo won't go away

    what the fuuuck

    panasonic tcp -- vt25 or w/e btw

    ack on
  • ackack Registered User regular
    hey everyone that says burn-in is a non-issue in modern plasmas

    WRONG.png

  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    ack wrote:
    hey everyone that says burn-in is a non-issue in modern plasmas

    http://i318.photobucket.com/albums/mm424/MOOSEMOTICONS/KCEMOTES/WRONG.png

    Not wrong.

    Maybe you should see about a refund/replacement. 2 hours of a TV logo doesn't cause burn-in on a properly functioning plasma tv.

    minor incident on
    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • ackack Registered User regular
    does 5 hours of a video game?

  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    ack wrote:
    does 5 hours of a video game?

    Maybe if you left a paused screen on maximum brightness for 5 hours as soon as you pulled the tv out of the box. And even then, that should fade before long.

    After the first 50-100 hours or so, burn in will be all but eliminated, and with a modern plasma even during those first 50-100 hours, it's going to take some effort to burn anything in, even temporarily.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • Disco11Disco11 Registered User regular
    Have had a sampsung 42" plasma for years and have never had a issue. My kid forgot the tv on with a game paused for 8-10 hours and had burn in that lasted 2 min.

    PSN: Canadian_llama
  • ackack Registered User regular
    sent am e-mail to viera concierge

  • The WolfmanThe Wolfman Registered User regular
    So for the canadians in the crowd, are there any noteworthy places to keep an eye out for good deals and such? Amazon.ca doesn't sell TV's, and most of the stuff on Newegg.ca are recertified brands that I've never heard of that sets off my spidy sense. Basically limiting my options to Futureshop and Best Buy, and they're almost literally the same store. I don't particularly mind, I like Futureshop, I just figure I'll have to keep an extra vigil on making sure I'm not overpaying.

    I also figure that, since it's only a few months till Boxing day, I might as well wait till then. Right now I'm just eyeballing features. The price range is about 500-700, and maybe pushing 1000 if I'm lucky. So far I'm leaning ever so slightly towards plasma. Right now though my biggest concern is over resolution. 720p vs 1080p. My logical side is telling me that virtually everything, including 90% of the games on my shelf are 720, so that's more than enough. But my techie side is saying to just pony up for 1080, because I want to try and future proof myself as best I can so I don't feel like I'm missing out later. Because I also have that little voice in my head that would say "You could be playing this in 1080p, but you're not! Wee hee hee hee...". And I fucking hate that guy.

    "The sausage of Green Earth explodes with flavor like the cannon of culinary delight."
    PSN: TheWolfman64 3DS/Pokemon Y: 0774-4614-4065/NNID: the_wolfman64
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    ack wrote:
    hey everyone that says burn-in is a non-issue in modern plasmas

    WRONG.png

    Burn-in and image retention are different things. You can usually clear IR (if it's driving you crazy) by running some full-screen color slides for a couple hours. I don't have the link on me, but it should be on AVSForum somewhere.

  • FonjoFonjo Registered User regular
    Alright, I am looking at buying a Panasonic 55GT30 in the next couple of days and I have a few questions.

    First, as a plasma, how well does it handle video games? I hear it is much better about not having stuttering and the such... but I worry about burn in. I play a lot of games and don't want a UI burned into my screen because of it.

    Also, I have heard a lot of mixed view on this but should I run a break-in program for the first 100-150 hours I use the TV? Are there any benefits to this? I don't mind doing it but if it is pointless, I might not. I just don't want to fuck up my TV, it is a pretty big purchase for me.

    Does anyone here have any experience with the GT30's? Anything I should know before I pull the trigger?

    76561197983427425.png
  • a5ehrena5ehren AtlantaRegistered User regular
    Fonjo wrote:
    Alright, I am looking at buying a Panasonic 55GT30 in the next couple of days and I have a few questions.

    First, as a plasma, how well does it handle video games? I hear it is much better about not having stuttering and the such... but I worry about burn in. I play a lot of games and don't want a UI burned into my screen because of it.

    Also, I have heard a lot of mixed view on this but should I run a break-in program for the first 100-150 hours I use the TV? Are there any benefits to this? I don't mind doing it but if it is pointless, I might not. I just don't want to fuck up my TV, it is a pretty big purchase for me.

    Does anyone here have any experience with the GT30's? Anything I should know before I pull the trigger?

    You don't need to do the break-in slides unless you are using a specific set of calibration settings that were made using them. All it does is ensure even subpixel wear, but it isn't required for normal use.

  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    Okay after a considerable amount of scoffing and being dismissive, I think I want a 3DTV. With so many PS3 games and new Blurays dropping in 3D I think it's time I made the jump.

    I am partial to Samsung for my TVs/monitors. Does anyone have any experience/insight with their 3D offerings?

    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    I own a Samsung 3D monitor for my gaming PC and it's fantastic. My non-3D Samsung TVs have always been great, as well, and the in-store demos with 3D Samsung TVs at some of the local home theatre stores always look fantastic.

    I'm a big proponent of the fact that 3D looks and works MUCH better on a smaller, closer screen (like a TV at home) than in a movie theatre. I still wouldn't say it's a requirement, but it's nice to have and works better than one would be led to believe based on shitty movie theatre 3D setups.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    What's the best of the dirt cheap TV brands?

    My girlfriend wants to buy one for her family for Christmas as theirs recently went out, but she has very little to spend.

    I noticed this has 4 stars after 1,000+ ratings, but only one written review.

    Thoughts?

    Haier 32" at $197.

    maximumzero on
    FU7kFbw.png
    Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
  • minor incidentminor incident Helen Keller to the bullshit Registered User regular
    What's the best of the dirt cheap TV brands?

    My girlfriend wants to buy one for her family for Christmas as theirs recently went out, but she has very little to spend.

    I noticed this has 4 stars after 1,000+ ratings, but only one written review.

    Thoughts?

    Vizio is a pretty cheap brand that actually makes fantastic TVs. Aside from them, I've had decent luck with Best Buy's house brand, Insignia, as long as you're not expecting more than a halfway decent, watchable TV.

    Steam: minor incident || PSN: inter-punct
    You may not find all that you're after. In the end I hope it doesn't matter.
  • maximumzeromaximumzero I...wait, what? New Orleans, LARegistered User regular
    I noticed there's actually many written reviews on the first TV I posted. Silly me.

    FU7kFbw.png
    Switch: 6200-8149-0919 / Wii U: maximumzero / 3DS: 0860-3352-3335 / eBay Shop
  • GooeyGooey (\/)┌¶─¶┐(\/) pinch pinchRegistered User regular
    Something that should be mentioned in regards to speaker systems:

    Getting the Most Out of Your Sub - The "Sub Crawl"

    Step 1: Get a long sub cord from Monoprice or someplace.
    Step 2: Hook it up to your sub, and place your sub where you sit. Yes, on your sofa. Or as close to it as possible, if you are worried about messing your furniture up.
    Step 3: Play something nice and bassy. Preferrably something you know really well. Crank it up so you can really hear your sub.
    Step 4: This is the fun part. Get on your hands and knees. I'm serious. Do it.
    Step 5: Crawl around your floor listening carefully for wherever your bass sounds best.
    Step 6: Put your sub there, or as close as possible.
    Step 7: Listen to your bassy thing again from your normal listening position.
    Step 8: Repeat steps 3-7. I only suggest this because sometimes you can get better results or find another good spot if you wind up sticking your sub right in the middle of the room on your first pass. If you move your sub and it sounds worse (at your listening position, of course), move it back.

    It really works. It's not going to magically give you chest-pounding bass (If you're looking for that you need more power, most likely) but it ought to help round out and fill in your bass and make stuff generally sound better.

    919UOwT.png
  • smokmnkysmokmnky Registered User regular
    Hey guys I need a couple of suggestions for a decent Sub $1,000 USD TV. Brand doesn't really matter to me and neither does LED Lit vs Plasma. Only real requirements are the 1k budget and at least 42 to 47in.

  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    Oh geez, I thought you were asking for a $1000 subwoofer

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • Dodge AspenDodge Aspen Registered User regular
    Bought a 51 inch Samsung 3DPlasma today. Was going to wait until Boxing Day, but Best Buy has them for $888 this week, with 2pairs of glasses and te Megamind 3Dbluray as a bonus. We'll buy the player on boxing day, instead.

    The set is really slick, with a beautiful screen. Only watched tv on it so far, but damn is it nice. Looks a little shiny when it's dark, but it shouldn't be an issue. Very happy so far.

    Had an old 50 inch LCD SONY VEGA that cost $2500 6-7 years ago. It didn't even have a proper hdmi hookup, so this is a definite step up.

    Xbox - Dodge Mega
    Switch - SW-3699-5063-5018

  • Dr_KeenbeanDr_Keenbean Dumb as a butt Planet Express ShipRegistered User regular
    edited November 2011
    Bought a 51 inch Samsung 3DPlasma today. Was going to wait until Boxing Day, but Best Buy has them for $888 this week, with 2pairs of glasses and te Megamind 3Dbluray as a bonus. We'll buy the player on boxing day, instead.

    The set is really slick, with a beautiful screen. Only watched tv on it so far, but damn is it nice. Looks a little shiny when it's dark, but it shouldn't be an issue. Very happy so far.

    Had an old 50 inch LCD SONY VEGA that cost $2500 6-7 years ago. It didn't even have a proper hdmi hookup, so this is a definite step up.

    Is it the PN51D550?

    Because I am thinking about buying that, like, this evening.

    EDIT: Aaaaaand I did just buy it. I don't have any 3D blurays to test but games are pretty sweet, aside from the resolution going waaaaay down.

    Also I'm still running over hdmi 1.3 cables and the 3D is working. I thought it wasn't supposed to work over 1.3?

    EDIT THE 2ND: 3D bluray also works over 1.3, which makes sense as the PS3's HDMI port is only 1.3 (the 360's is 1.2). So I just saved myself like $15 now that I don't need to buy 3 1.4 HDMI cables!

    Dr_Keenbean on
    PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
    3DS: 1650-8480-6786
    Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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