I know a hardcore mode was talked about a few pages back, and wasn't planned at this time, but man I'd love to try one out. Like forced cockpit/sniper view, no tank outlines or class indicators floating above the tanks, but to lessen the sting of that, all tanks are visible at all times. (Though the arty mechanics would have to be reworked for that, maybe something akin to the BF1942 artillery spotting mechanics).
The visibility mechanics are done the way they are (via server-side calculations) to eliminate potential cheating. If tanks are rendered out to the draw distance and you're relying on actual camouflage and visual concealment to hide, then people will just skin all tanks neon orange at the client side. People already use skins with weak points highlighted, which is bad enough.
I've also noticed a lot of people deliberately exploiting the hit boxes on tanks. More than 1 player has driven into my Lowe and tried to drive me backwards at point blank range, putting their gunbarrel inside my turret. I dont know if this is particular for Lowes but it's hard to do damage to people that do that.
Facehugging is a pretty common tactic and particularly effective against the lowe because of its lack of gun depression. American heavies, and upper tier mediums like to do this with their respective high turret armor and low profile. (fuck point black t-54's)
Try wagging your turret around until they fire so their shots hit your ridiculously well armored mantlet and not straight down your barrel. Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
Oh, and save your gold ammo. It's completely not worth it on a Lowe. You've got such ridiculous penetration already it won't help unless you're facing a maus every match.
This game is frustrating and fun in equal amounts.
I am convinced that the aiming and damage modelling is broken. It seems so random at times. Driving round in a Lowe, using premium ammo, I get shots which are downright ridiculous.
On Hill, I managed to get into a position where I was looking down onto the top of a Russian TD. He was literally 30 yards away, and the entire rear/top of his tank filled my aiming reticule. It indicated green likely penetration result. I estimate the angle from barrel to tank was probably 45 degrees (I was looking almost right down at him and had to drive my tank over the edge of a cliff to get the barrel to depress).
I fired, got a message saying "one more like that will finish them", and he'd lost a massive 2% dmg, from 100% to 98%.
Another battle, I put a premium shell into the belly of a PzIV from point blank range after he crested a hill in front of me. 5% dmg taken off... no more than that.
It's possible that you're getting "critical hits," which are shots that damage internal modules or crew. Modules and crew have their own HP pools separate from the general tank HP. They soak up damage first, and I believe any extra spills over into the general pool. It's a dumb mechanic which sometimes leads to "crits" that are worse than regular non-critical hits - I've lost at least one duel because I knocked out a guy's gun and did no HP damage with the shot that should have killed him. You could submit a bug report, though, on the off chance that it's actually something weird with premium rounds.
Also, the voice messages are just for flavor. The "one more will finish them" message really just means you got a penetrating hit. Yes, they should have worded it differently.
I've also noticed a lot of people deliberately exploiting the hit boxes on tanks. More than 1 player has driven into my Lowe and tried to drive me backwards at point blank range, putting their gunbarrel inside my turret. I dont know if this is particular for Lowes but it's hard to do damage to people that do that.
This isn't "exploiting hitboxes." Gun barrels just don't have any collision detection. Shots originate from the turret, not the end of the gun, so their shots are still having to penetrate your armor to do damage. As much as it may be annoying to encounter, facehugging is generally considered to be a legitimate tactic, and one that is an effective way for low-profile tanks to give tall tanks with insufficient gun depression a hard time. You'll just have to do your best to knock them out before they get up next to you!
As for SPGs, I think the Devs couldn't be bothered to work out a real way to implement long range arty shooting, so just slapped in something that is sort of ok. As for realism? Well, it's totally unrealistic, so they should take it out in my opinion.
OK, well, in my opinion I totally don't care that it's unrealistic. Artillery is cool, therefore I want it in the game. I do agree that the current artillery implementation is lackluster, though; it could be done in a way that's much more fun, both for arty drivers and their targets.
For all the negatives, you sometimes get a game where there will be 4 or 5 of you left, vs 6 or 7 enemy, and somehow, with organisation, you manage to get the win. Those games are amazing, but the majority of players seem to play with no brains.
Yup, random battles are a crapshoot. Sometimes you get a team where everything falls into place and you crush the opposition, sometimes you'll at least have a few core people that work together, and sometimes you might as well queue up Yakkity Sax and drive around in circles until the humiliation is over. Platoons can help ease the pain, though!
It's common to ram/bearhug things that have tall turrets and shitty depression if you have a short tank. Lowes don't usually qualify, that's something you do to T1s and M6s.
That said: you also do that if you have high turret armor, because many tanks can't hit the hull of a shorter tank when that close. I had an IS rush my IS to do that, and he then proceeded to bounce four shots off me while I crit him every shot, because I knew about the magic of first person aiming and weak spots on the turret :P
Lowes annoy me as a medium only because they take ages to kill, and have a fast turret traverse, so I can't circle them to death like a KV-3.
Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
No, don't do this, because it's cheesy as shit. :P
Oh, and save your gold ammo. It's completely not worth it on a Lowe. You've got such ridiculous penetration already it won't help unless you're facing a maus every match.
Eh, it's a tier 8 heavy, he'll be running into plenty of IS-4s, Ausf. Bs, etc. If he can afford it, it'll probably be helpful fairly often.
Personally I'll never use premium ammo in random matches - it's way too expensive for me, and anyway I really dislike the whole concept. I don't have a problem with convenience-oriented premium features like XP conversion, crew training, garage slots, and all that, but I strongly object to premium items that confer an in-game advantage. Right now that means premium ammo and consumables. Premium tanks could be problematic, but a) they've all been balanced quite reasonably so far, and b) they're a one-time expense, not something you piss away every time you fire your gun.
Supraluminal on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I kinda think gun barrels with collision would be neat. It would make going into a city or heavy forest require some thought. Also we could get some Kelly's Heroes stuff with the tiger not being able to turn its gun around. If you drove into that tight alley you deserve to get shot.
I kinda think gun barrels with collision would be neat. It would make going into a city or heavy forest require some thought. Also we could get some Kelly's Heroes stuff with the tiger not being able to turn its gun around. If you drove into that tight alley you deserve to get shot.
I wouldn't be averse to trying it out, but I suspect it would end up feeling like needless realism at the expense of fun. I like the current arcade/sim balance, and this seems too far in the sim direction to me. Maybe as part of a hardcore mode, though.
Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
No, don't do this, because it's cheesy as shit. :P
Ethics aside, have you really looked at the hitboxes of some tanks? Wargaming has them modeled in ways that really make you go o_O
Tiny little periscopes, machine gun ports, and headlights. Often all points where you can get full damage from guns that wouldn't normally penetrate. Hell, the poor germans can get flamed out from the front on many of their tanks just because the drive train is considered part of the "engine" and it extends into the front armor. The jagtiger can get it's gun knocked out from the rear because the model extends into part of the crew hatch, and the T29 wagging it's ears around is just asking to get popped.
There's a lot of players using them at high tiers / competitive play, so you should at least look at some screenshots to protect yourself better.
I would just like realistic driving and shooting physics. Obviously leave out the reliability realism. :P
That would mean Shermans and early (41-42) german stuff would win: Tiger's panthers T34 KV's and IS hell even Pershings= final drive failuers. Although realistically tanks would break down before combat while on a march and not during combat.
It would also mean making choices like, sure I can put on a heavier turret/armour/gun but does that mean I break down after 200m and my crew is using some consumable to get it running again? Because damn me if seeing PIV with smallturms 7,5cm offends my sense of propriety.
Oddly enough Seeing a maus just ment I wanted to shoot it. As opposed to reacting with horror at the engineering conceit of it's existence even as a simplified mathematical construct.
I wish we had flamethrower tanks then I could set veh's I hate on fire.
Bastable on
Philippe about the tactical deployment of german Kradschützen during the battle of Kursk:
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
No, don't do this, because it's cheesy as shit. :P
Ethics aside, have you really looked at the hitboxes of some tanks? Wargaming has them modeled in ways that really make you go o_O
Tiny little periscopes, machine gun ports, and headlights. Often all points where you can get full damage from guns that wouldn't normally penetrate. Hell, the poor germans can get flamed out from the front on many of their tanks just because the drive train is considered part of the "engine" and it extends into the front armor. The jagtiger can get it's gun knocked out from the rear because the model extends into part of the crew hatch, and the T29 wagging it's ears around is just asking to get popped.
There's a lot of players using them at high tiers / competitive play, so you should at least look at some screenshots to protect yourself better.
Yeah, I know about weak points. I mean I don't have them all memorized, but in general I shoot for hatches, gun ports, T29 ears, and all the rest of it. And I take steps to minimize my own exposure; for example, in my T-44, I try to avoid presenting the right side of the tank as a target as that side is pretty much entirely composed of ammo rack.
I don't think internal module hitboxes extend into (or through) the armor, though - rather they have their own hitboxes inside the tank, and the path of the shot is modeled after penetration. That's what I've gathered from trawling the forums, anyway.
I also have no objection to frontal shots hitting the engine, rear shots hitting a gun, or anything of that sort; after all, there's nothing but squishy crewmen and other (relatively) soft junk on the inside of the tank. Certainly not anything that a fast-moving armor-piercing shell is going to care about, anyway, so I'm pretty sure a round that enters via the frontal armor on the right angle will find its way to the engine in due course. Some tanks may have bigger module hitboxes, or modules in places you wouldn't expect (as in your examples), but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. Just more to learn about how each individual tank works.
After a couple of disastrous attempts to take a province in Clan Wars, we've pretty much just been playing individually or platooning. There's usually quite a few people on in the evenings, though. So by all means, join up and roll around random battles with a couple of people you can rely on!
Eventually I'm hoping we can take another stab at Clan Wars or even just company battles, but it may be a long time before we have enough folks in high-tier tanks for those. Alternately, they are planning to add some tier-limited company battle brackets as well, which would be great. That's probably a ways off too, though.
Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
No, don't do this, because it's cheesy as shit. :P
Ethics aside, have you really looked at the hitboxes of some tanks? Wargaming has them modeled in ways that really make you go o_O
Tiny little periscopes, machine gun ports, and headlights. Often all points where you can get full damage from guns that wouldn't normally penetrate. Hell, the poor germans can get flamed out from the front on many of their tanks just because the drive train is considered part of the "engine" and it extends into the front armor. The jagtiger can get it's gun knocked out from the rear because the model extends into part of the crew hatch, and the T29 wagging it's ears around is just asking to get popped.
There's a lot of players using them at high tiers / competitive play, so you should at least look at some screenshots to protect yourself better.
Yeah, I know about weak points. I mean I don't have them all memorized, but in general I shoot for hatches, gun ports, T29 ears, and all the rest of it. And I take steps to minimize my own exposure; for example, in my T-44, I try to avoid presenting the right side of the tank as a target as that side is pretty much entirely composed of ammo rack.
I don't think internal module hitboxes extend into (or through) the armor, though - rather they have their own hitboxes inside the tank, and the path of the shot is modeled after penetration. That's what I've gathered from trawling the forums, anyway.
I also have no objection to frontal shots hitting the engine, rear shots hitting a gun, or anything of that sort; after all, there's nothing but squishy crewmen and other (relatively) soft junk on the inside of the tank. Certainly not anything that a fast-moving armor-piercing shell is going to care about, anyway, so I'm pretty sure a round that enters via the frontal armor on the right angle will find its way to the engine in due course. Some tanks may have bigger module hitboxes, or modules in places you wouldn't expect (as in your examples), but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. Just more to learn about how each individual tank works.
Yeah, that was some poor phrasing on my part regarding the hitbox extension. I just wanted to get across that the skins help give a rapid familiarization with the mechanics of the game and help explain a lot of 'bs' moments that people would never see.
ie the red spots on:
and
They make a huge difference when you can suddenly 1-shot a jagpanther, or damage the engine on an ausf b or maus from the front. Repeatedly penetrating those spots for a flame out, even if you're not really "damaging" the actual engine, isn't something that one would expect.
After a couple of disastrous attempts to take a province in Clan Wars, we've pretty much just been playing individually or platooning. There's usually quite a few people on in the evenings, though. So by all means, join up and roll around random battles with a couple of people you can rely on!
Eventually I'm hoping we can take another stab at Clan Wars or even just company battles, but it may be a long time before we have enough folks in high-tier tanks for those. Alternately, they are planning to add some tier-limited company battle brackets as well, which would be great. That's probably a ways off too, though.
Basically This. And I'll be playing this game for the foreseeable future. For all the faults that this game has, it really is quite amazing. I feel like the game is so good that it makes its minor faults stand out more, and my complaints are really just nitpicking. But anyway, we're waiting for more people to join and get in the higher tiers so we can take at least one province eventually.
Now, that explains a lot about how I have been 1shotted by players in platoons and clans. What a crock. I can't believe the devs would allow such a thing to be possible.
As for premium ammo - yeah someone said it - I am facing a lot of IS-4s and the premium ammo does help on trying to take them out. They are ridiculous.
Eh. I agree that the hitbox skins are dumb - I called them "cheesy as shit" above - but I also don't think they quite amount to cheating. After all, they don't tell you much that you can't figure out through a combination of research, experimentation, and common sense. I just think they're a sort of pathetic shortcut through that learning process.
The devs "allow" it because they wanted to let people create their own skins just for fun. Many people use different camo patterns, or put racing stripes on tanks, or texture them with woodgrain panels and other goofy stuff. I don't bother with any of it myself, but I'm glad that it's possible for those who want to do it. I consider the usage of hitbox skins to be an unfortunate but acceptable side-effect.
My issue with the hitbox skins is that some of the damage locations are nonsensical (not obviously viewports and such), and that creates an information gap with people who don't use them.
I'd be a little happier if, say, WoT posted the hitbox locations on their website, or something. But a small portion of the playerbase having access to "shoot HERE to ammo rack *given tank*" seems.. wrong.
I agree with the notion of hitbox skins being pretty messed up, and I do hope they do something to address it (it'd be a bit hard to imagine them not doing so, even at the cost of people who use lower quality skins to improve framerates).
Glad to see I was right about the Patton coming through. Should be a nice counterpart to the T-54--we're close to being able to have a remake of the 1971 War between India and Pakistan.
The devs mentioned the possibility of integrating the skinning system into the game client -- with a list of accepted skins stored in a server-side database or something to that effect -- with a side effect of making every current downloadable skin, hitbox skins included, unusable.
My issue with the hitbox skins is that some of the damage locations are nonsensical (not obviously viewports and such), and that creates an information gap with people who don't use them.
I'd be a little happier if, say, WoT posted the hitbox locations on their website, or something. But a small portion of the playerbase having access to "shoot HERE to ammo rack *given tank*" seems.. wrong.
Well, you can dredge up the real-world schematics for most of these tanks on the internet if you try hard enough. A lot of them have been posted on the WoT forums, actually. And you can also learn from experience; if you shoot a tank with 100% health and it explodes, you should probably try aiming for that spot again in the future!
But as I said, I think it's more fun and interesting for everyone to go through that process of discovery. Just slapping a spray-painted bullseye on the side of the turret or the driver's hatch or whatever is hokey and distasteful.
The devs mentioned the possibility of integrating the skinning system into the game client -- with a list of accepted skins stored in a server-side database or something to that effect -- with a side effect of making every current downloadable skin, hitbox skins included, unusable.
This would probably be for the best, though I'm sure it'll be a long time before they get around to it (if they ever do). It'll probably spell the end of the John Deere Leichtraktor, though, which is a shame.
People complain a lot about the 'god's eye view' of the SPGs, complain that it's unrealistic. From my time training with the army while I was in the Navy, every part of the earth is covered in maps which are then given grid coordinates. Of course WW2 era maps wouldn't be as detailed, but it's not improbable that through a combination of civilian maps and military topographical maps, a spotter could indicate a point on a battlefield that is smaller than the accuracy limits of artillery. If I recall correctly it was something like four digits for rough position indication (like move your unit to the crest of x hill, in a grove of trees) whereas if you used 5 digits you would get specific enough to hit a street intersection.
So if you were actually artillery you'd be marking a map with enemy positions and calls for fire support. My feeling is that the 'god's eye view' is the best way to recreate that, since it's impractical to have to require a tank in a battle (which has 4 to 6 people in it, one of which has primary responsibility for communication) feed you information (again, you would have at least one person responsible for receiving data, and a person, possibly the same guy responsible for updating your map) especially given that you would not typically place artillery in the same 1km x 1km as 25-28 tanks are duking it out. You'd typically be back probably at least 5km since WW2 era artillery might typically be effective out to 15 to 18km range.
The only real arty inaccuracies are blocking object related (you can know from the map that X,Y are your target, but wouldn't know that the angle of the shell would hit the bare top of this building without much more up to date intel)
But, well, it's a game, not a war sim. This version is far more fun. And quite frankly, arty view usually lets me sit back and get a good look at how terrible my team is at using cover properly
I dabble in artillary (got a M41 atm and am doing my daily doubles on it and a kv-2 to get to tier 6), and had a school bus in the beta. The accuracy of artillary has dropped considerably from where it used to be. If you move around a little, it is much harder to land a hit on you now.
I recommend that everyone give playing artillary a try. Even if you don't stick with it past a few tiers, you learn so much about how artillary works and how to avoid their fire that it is really worth it.
I currently have a Tier 3 Artillery, Tier 3 Light Tank, and have researched but not yet purchased a Tier 2 Tank Destroyer. So far just fighting for ze Germans.
Just trying to work my way up the tiers. Most play sessions I don't even wait for a battle to finish if I get knocked out. I leave and queue up my next free tank.
My only issue with artillery is I always seem to be late to the party. By the time I've moved my reticle and waited for it to aim, the other artillery on the team has almost always taken the target out.
What is a good brawler in the vein of the Pz III/IV in the US/Soviet lines?
The_Infidel on
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Librarian's ghostLibrarian, Ghostbuster, and TimSporkRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
I'm back to grinding my M3 Lee, in between grinding the Hetzer and PzIV, to work towards the Sherman and I just noticed that I did not have either the best engine nor the middle radio equipped even though I had researched both.
What is a good brawler in the vein of the Pz III/IV in the US/Soviet lines?
Out of what I have played, the M4A3E8 Sherman (US tier 6) and the T-44 (USSR tier 8) play most like the III/IV. I love the III/IV, but most people can't tank the underpowered gun...
Out of what I haven't played, the US M7 and tier 8 and 9 mediums and the T-54 (USSR tier 9 medium) probably also play similarly.
If you don't want to go up a medium line for whatever reason, the IS and IS-3 are both pretty agile for heavy tanks and can be played almost like brawling mediums. The IS with the 100mm D10T in particular feels like a poor man's T-44.
But yes, the higher-tier US and Russian mediums are perfectly suited to mobile, aggressive play. ("Aggressive" doesn't mean "foolhardy" though; you can't just charge straight at every target you see.)
There are a number of tier 3 & 4 lights and mediums that are all in contention for zippiest tank. The Russian A-20 and the US T2 Light are tied for highest top speed at 72km/h, but they don't necessarily have the best acceleration or handling.
So there don't seem to be any good guns for the T-43
The stock gun is the tier 6 85mm, which was acceptable on the T-34-85 but probably won't do much for me one tier higher. The remaining options are derp guns and another 85mm for 16k xp that only offers a slight boost in penetration. Sigh.
What's the conventional method here? I guess I'll have to duke it out with the stock gun. It's a looonng grind though.
So there don't seem to be any good guns for the T-43
The stock gun is the tier 6 85mm, which was acceptable on the T-34-85 but probably won't do much for me one tier higher. The remaining options are derp guns and another 85mm for 16k xp that only offers a slight boost in penetration. Sigh.
What's the conventional method here? I guess I'll have to duke it out with the stock gun. It's a looonng grind though.
The T-43 has access to the 100mm D10T - aka the "IDIOT" gun. Do you have it researched? It's not really a derp gun like the stubby 122mm.
So there don't seem to be any good guns for the T-43
The stock gun is the tier 6 85mm, which was acceptable on the T-34-85 but probably won't do much for me one tier higher. The remaining options are derp guns and another 85mm for 16k xp that only offers a slight boost in penetration. Sigh.
What's the conventional method here? I guess I'll have to duke it out with the stock gun. It's a looonng grind though.
Err... the 85mm D5T-85BM is great. You seriously didn't unlock and use it on the T-34-85? Or the 100mm D10T, which is absolutely not a derp gun? Either of those should serve you well on the T-43. Personally I chose the D10T, but you should try both to see which you prefer. You'll want to have both available on the T-44 anyway (you'll use the 85mm to grind for the tracks & turret, which will allow you to mount the 100mm).
I can't deal with guns with slow firing rates. Especially on a medium tank. Which is why I didn't research the 100mm. And the D5T-85BM I'm not sure if a 20 point increase in penetration only is worth the 16k xp investment
I agree, the 85mm ZiS S-53 was pretty good, for a tier 6 tank. On a tier 7 tank it probably just won't do it, simply because I'll be matched up with tiers 7+.
I can't deal with guns with slow firing rates. Especially on a medium tank. Which is why I didn't research the 100mm. And the D5T-85BM I'm not sure if a 20 point increase in penetration only is worth the 16k xp investment
I agree, the 85mm ZiS S-53 was pretty good, for a tier 6 tank. On a tier 7 tank it probably just won't do it, simply because I'll be matched up with tiers 7+.
The D5T-85BM is totally worth it. More penetration and drastically more accurate. I can't believe you slogged through the T-34-85 without it.
The D10T has a pretty reasonable RoF by higher-tier standards. It's also the weapon of choice on the T-44, unless you can stand the 85mm's low penetration at tier 8, so you may want to start getting accustomed to it.
I made the 85mm ZiS S-53, mostly because of the nice firing rate. I might not do as much damage as they can, but I can fire at them twice before they fire back. I've always found that to be nice.
I guess on the T-43, given that I need 100k xp to get to next tier, 16k xp for a gun isn't too bad. On the T-34-85 though I thought it was a bit too much.
In my opinion, if you'll use something on the next vehicle up the tech tree, it's never a waste of time to research it. Better to spend time earning XP in a tank that's already got some upgrades than a stock one. Plus then you get to use it for the remainder of your grind!
Yeah that's true, I love seeing that I have already researched modules on a newly purchased tank. But I duno, I didn't research much on the T-34-85 because I just wanted to move on. I only research everything if I really love the tank and don't mind sticking around with it for a while.
Posts
The visibility mechanics are done the way they are (via server-side calculations) to eliminate potential cheating. If tanks are rendered out to the draw distance and you're relying on actual camouflage and visual concealment to hide, then people will just skin all tanks neon orange at the client side. People already use skins with weak points highlighted, which is bad enough.
Facehugging is a pretty common tactic and particularly effective against the lowe because of its lack of gun depression. American heavies, and upper tier mediums like to do this with their respective high turret armor and low profile. (fuck point black t-54's)
Try wagging your turret around until they fire so their shots hit your ridiculously well armored mantlet and not straight down your barrel. Give the hitbox skins a shot too, as there's usually some little vision port or light that's considered a weakpoint which you can hit.
Oh, and save your gold ammo. It's completely not worth it on a Lowe. You've got such ridiculous penetration already it won't help unless you're facing a maus every match.
It's possible that you're getting "critical hits," which are shots that damage internal modules or crew. Modules and crew have their own HP pools separate from the general tank HP. They soak up damage first, and I believe any extra spills over into the general pool. It's a dumb mechanic which sometimes leads to "crits" that are worse than regular non-critical hits - I've lost at least one duel because I knocked out a guy's gun and did no HP damage with the shot that should have killed him. You could submit a bug report, though, on the off chance that it's actually something weird with premium rounds.
Also, the voice messages are just for flavor. The "one more will finish them" message really just means you got a penetrating hit. Yes, they should have worded it differently.
This isn't "exploiting hitboxes." Gun barrels just don't have any collision detection. Shots originate from the turret, not the end of the gun, so their shots are still having to penetrate your armor to do damage. As much as it may be annoying to encounter, facehugging is generally considered to be a legitimate tactic, and one that is an effective way for low-profile tanks to give tall tanks with insufficient gun depression a hard time. You'll just have to do your best to knock them out before they get up next to you!
OK, well, in my opinion I totally don't care that it's unrealistic. Artillery is cool, therefore I want it in the game. I do agree that the current artillery implementation is lackluster, though; it could be done in a way that's much more fun, both for arty drivers and their targets.
Yup, random battles are a crapshoot. Sometimes you get a team where everything falls into place and you crush the opposition, sometimes you'll at least have a few core people that work together, and sometimes you might as well queue up Yakkity Sax and drive around in circles until the humiliation is over. Platoons can help ease the pain, though!
That said: you also do that if you have high turret armor, because many tanks can't hit the hull of a shorter tank when that close. I had an IS rush my IS to do that, and he then proceeded to bounce four shots off me while I crit him every shot, because I knew about the magic of first person aiming and weak spots on the turret :P
Lowes annoy me as a medium only because they take ages to kill, and have a fast turret traverse, so I can't circle them to death like a KV-3.
No, don't do this, because it's cheesy as shit. :P
Eh, it's a tier 8 heavy, he'll be running into plenty of IS-4s, Ausf. Bs, etc. If he can afford it, it'll probably be helpful fairly often.
Personally I'll never use premium ammo in random matches - it's way too expensive for me, and anyway I really dislike the whole concept. I don't have a problem with convenience-oriented premium features like XP conversion, crew training, garage slots, and all that, but I strongly object to premium items that confer an in-game advantage. Right now that means premium ammo and consumables. Premium tanks could be problematic, but a) they've all been balanced quite reasonably so far, and b) they're a one-time expense, not something you piss away every time you fire your gun.
I wouldn't be averse to trying it out, but I suspect it would end up feeling like needless realism at the expense of fun. I like the current arcade/sim balance, and this seems too far in the sim direction to me. Maybe as part of a hardcore mode, though.
Ethics aside, have you really looked at the hitboxes of some tanks? Wargaming has them modeled in ways that really make you go o_O
Tiny little periscopes, machine gun ports, and headlights. Often all points where you can get full damage from guns that wouldn't normally penetrate. Hell, the poor germans can get flamed out from the front on many of their tanks just because the drive train is considered part of the "engine" and it extends into the front armor. The jagtiger can get it's gun knocked out from the rear because the model extends into part of the crew hatch, and the T29 wagging it's ears around is just asking to get popped.
There's a lot of players using them at high tiers / competitive play, so you should at least look at some screenshots to protect yourself better.
That would mean Shermans and early (41-42) german stuff would win: Tiger's panthers T34 KV's and IS hell even Pershings= final drive failuers. Although realistically tanks would break down before combat while on a march and not during combat.
It would also mean making choices like, sure I can put on a heavier turret/armour/gun but does that mean I break down after 200m and my crew is using some consumable to get it running again? Because damn me if seeing PIV with smallturms 7,5cm offends my sense of propriety.
Oddly enough Seeing a maus just ment I wanted to shoot it. As opposed to reacting with horror at the engineering conceit of it's existence even as a simplified mathematical construct.
I wish we had flamethrower tanks then I could set veh's I hate on fire.
"I think I can comment on this because I used to live above the Baby Doll Lounge, a topless bar that was once frequented by bikers in lower Manhattan."
Yeah, I know about weak points. I mean I don't have them all memorized, but in general I shoot for hatches, gun ports, T29 ears, and all the rest of it. And I take steps to minimize my own exposure; for example, in my T-44, I try to avoid presenting the right side of the tank as a target as that side is pretty much entirely composed of ammo rack.
I don't think internal module hitboxes extend into (or through) the armor, though - rather they have their own hitboxes inside the tank, and the path of the shot is modeled after penetration. That's what I've gathered from trawling the forums, anyway.
I also have no objection to frontal shots hitting the engine, rear shots hitting a gun, or anything of that sort; after all, there's nothing but squishy crewmen and other (relatively) soft junk on the inside of the tank. Certainly not anything that a fast-moving armor-piercing shell is going to care about, anyway, so I'm pretty sure a round that enters via the frontal armor on the right angle will find its way to the engine in due course. Some tanks may have bigger module hitboxes, or modules in places you wouldn't expect (as in your examples), but I don't think that's necessarily a problem. Just more to learn about how each individual tank works.
Is the PA clan still pretty active?
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
After a couple of disastrous attempts to take a province in Clan Wars, we've pretty much just been playing individually or platooning. There's usually quite a few people on in the evenings, though. So by all means, join up and roll around random battles with a couple of people you can rely on!
Eventually I'm hoping we can take another stab at Clan Wars or even just company battles, but it may be a long time before we have enough folks in high-tier tanks for those. Alternately, they are planning to add some tier-limited company battle brackets as well, which would be great. That's probably a ways off too, though.
Yeah, that was some poor phrasing on my part regarding the hitbox extension. I just wanted to get across that the skins help give a rapid familiarization with the mechanics of the game and help explain a lot of 'bs' moments that people would never see.
ie the red spots on:
and
They make a huge difference when you can suddenly 1-shot a jagpanther, or damage the engine on an ausf b or maus from the front. Repeatedly penetrating those spots for a flame out, even if you're not really "damaging" the actual engine, isn't something that one would expect.
Basically This. And I'll be playing this game for the foreseeable future. For all the faults that this game has, it really is quite amazing. I feel like the game is so good that it makes its minor faults stand out more, and my complaints are really just nitpicking. But anyway, we're waiting for more people to join and get in the higher tiers so we can take at least one province eventually.
Check out the Penny Arcade World of Tanks thread to join us in some fun times.
Now, that explains a lot about how I have been 1shotted by players in platoons and clans. What a crock. I can't believe the devs would allow such a thing to be possible.
As for premium ammo - yeah someone said it - I am facing a lot of IS-4s and the premium ammo does help on trying to take them out. They are ridiculous.
The devs "allow" it because they wanted to let people create their own skins just for fun. Many people use different camo patterns, or put racing stripes on tanks, or texture them with woodgrain panels and other goofy stuff. I don't bother with any of it myself, but I'm glad that it's possible for those who want to do it. I consider the usage of hitbox skins to be an unfortunate but acceptable side-effect.
The patton looks so sexy too.
I'd be a little happier if, say, WoT posted the hitbox locations on their website, or something. But a small portion of the playerbase having access to "shoot HERE to ammo rack *given tank*" seems.. wrong.
Glad to see I was right about the Patton coming through. Should be a nice counterpart to the T-54--we're close to being able to have a remake of the 1971 War between India and Pakistan.
Well, you can dredge up the real-world schematics for most of these tanks on the internet if you try hard enough. A lot of them have been posted on the WoT forums, actually. And you can also learn from experience; if you shoot a tank with 100% health and it explodes, you should probably try aiming for that spot again in the future!
But as I said, I think it's more fun and interesting for everyone to go through that process of discovery. Just slapping a spray-painted bullseye on the side of the turret or the driver's hatch or whatever is hokey and distasteful.
This would probably be for the best, though I'm sure it'll be a long time before they get around to it (if they ever do). It'll probably spell the end of the John Deere Leichtraktor, though, which is a shame.
So if you were actually artillery you'd be marking a map with enemy positions and calls for fire support. My feeling is that the 'god's eye view' is the best way to recreate that, since it's impractical to have to require a tank in a battle (which has 4 to 6 people in it, one of which has primary responsibility for communication) feed you information (again, you would have at least one person responsible for receiving data, and a person, possibly the same guy responsible for updating your map) especially given that you would not typically place artillery in the same 1km x 1km as 25-28 tanks are duking it out. You'd typically be back probably at least 5km since WW2 era artillery might typically be effective out to 15 to 18km range.
But, well, it's a game, not a war sim. This version is far more fun. And quite frankly, arty view usually lets me sit back and get a good look at how terrible my team is at using cover properly
I recommend that everyone give playing artillary a try. Even if you don't stick with it past a few tiers, you learn so much about how artillary works and how to avoid their fire that it is really worth it.
Just trying to work my way up the tiers. Most play sessions I don't even wait for a battle to finish if I get knocked out. I leave and queue up my next free tank.
My only issue with artillery is I always seem to be late to the party. By the time I've moved my reticle and waited for it to aim, the other artillery on the team has almost always taken the target out.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
Out of what I have played, the M4A3E8 Sherman (US tier 6) and the T-44 (USSR tier 8) play most like the III/IV. I love the III/IV, but most people can't tank the underpowered gun...
Out of what I haven't played, the US M7 and tier 8 and 9 mediums and the T-54 (USSR tier 9 medium) probably also play similarly.
But yes, the higher-tier US and Russian mediums are perfectly suited to mobile, aggressive play. ("Aggressive" doesn't mean "foolhardy" though; you can't just charge straight at every target you see.)
I've seen a really zippy one sometimes while playing artillery, but haven't figured out what it is.
PSN: Beltaine-77 | Steam: beltane77 | Battle.net BadHaggis#1433
The stock gun is the tier 6 85mm, which was acceptable on the T-34-85 but probably won't do much for me one tier higher. The remaining options are derp guns and another 85mm for 16k xp that only offers a slight boost in penetration. Sigh.
What's the conventional method here? I guess I'll have to duke it out with the stock gun. It's a looonng grind though.
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The T-43 has access to the 100mm D10T - aka the "IDIOT" gun. Do you have it researched? It's not really a derp gun like the stubby 122mm.
Err... the 85mm D5T-85BM is great. You seriously didn't unlock and use it on the T-34-85? Or the 100mm D10T, which is absolutely not a derp gun? Either of those should serve you well on the T-43. Personally I chose the D10T, but you should try both to see which you prefer. You'll want to have both available on the T-44 anyway (you'll use the 85mm to grind for the tracks & turret, which will allow you to mount the 100mm).
I agree, the 85mm ZiS S-53 was pretty good, for a tier 6 tank. On a tier 7 tank it probably just won't do it, simply because I'll be matched up with tiers 7+.
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The D5T-85BM is totally worth it. More penetration and drastically more accurate. I can't believe you slogged through the T-34-85 without it.
The D10T has a pretty reasonable RoF by higher-tier standards. It's also the weapon of choice on the T-44, unless you can stand the 85mm's low penetration at tier 8, so you may want to start getting accustomed to it.
I guess on the T-43, given that I need 100k xp to get to next tier, 16k xp for a gun isn't too bad. On the T-34-85 though I thought it was a bit too much.
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BF3 Battlelog | Twitter | World of Warships | World of Tanks | Wishlist