Speaking of which, I think one of the last skills to develop in WoT is how to contribute when you're out-tiered. Some tanks are better at it than others, and there will always be battles where there's just nothing you can do. But I feel like after ~7,000 battles (including beta), I have a real good chance to pitch in even when I'm at the bottom of the list.
This is true. As much as they sound simple on paper, it seems to take a lot of experience to learn to do things like retreating and flanking effectively. I guess a lot of it has to do with developing an intuitive sense for the pace of the battle, and figuring out timing - how long your teammates will be able to hold out against a superior opponent vs. how fast you can get into position, how late is too late to fall back and reinforce another flank, all that stuff.
"When to judge if your team mates are even worth saving, or just bailing on them now to save yourself a firey death ..."
>_>
I had an E-50 bail on me last night after I came to save him from an IS-7. It sure was nice of him to run off and die somewhere else immediately on top of that. =_=
In all seriousness, I agree. You get all these weird situations where bulky heavies are scared to go out against things that will have lots of trouble against them, and then you get all these cases of outclassed tanks standing their ground and getting massacred when they could have fallen back to better positions. French tanks accentuate this play style, but in general it's how I've played mediums for ages. Take a shot and reposition. Try to be unpredictable. Make the enemy expect you to be somewhere else.
Oh, the thing that SHOULD be easiest to understand on paper, but people seem to have no grasp of: Patience.
This game could use some kind of skill matching system in the random battles I'd think. Whenever there's a platoon of 3 clanners on the top of a team you can sometimes just call the match from the get go.
A skill matching system could even match lower skilled high tier/heavy tank players with higher skilled lower tier/lighter tank players to some degree to make matches more interesting. Would be even neater to have a sort of automagic match-up recommendation system akin to amazon & netflix recommendations, where you can like/dislike your teammates and battle results and it takes that into account. While practically everyone likes a match skewed in their favor, the opposing team will dislike the same so it would hopefully even out. If they get the statistics right they could even start rewarding people more for winning a match stacked against them or put out challenge match ups with fixed tank types.
I will confess that I often don't fall back when I should, and by the time I do,
I'm usually in limp mode.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited March 2012
I originally regretted buying my T14 because god damn does that thing have a limp noodle, but the thing is, I don't think it's even possible for that thing to lose money. the only thing that I find really shitty about tiers 3 and 4 is light tanks. Fuck the M3 and M5 stuarts.
I've been tempted to get one of those when they go on sale, but I already have a Ram and a Matilda, so tier V premium is pretty much covered at this point (not to mention my 'keeper' tanks at that tier.
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
I originally regretted buying my T14 because god damn does that thing have a limp noodle, but the thing is, I don't think it's even possible for that thing to lose money. the only thing that I find really shitty about tiers 3 and 4 is light tanks.
Fuck YOU sir. My Luchs is still one of the most fun tanks I've played.
Tier 4 lights are pretty sad, though.
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Except for the T-50, which is as good as it gets (and shows how they still need to be on that level to even be competitive).
The Valentine is the most fun you can have at tier IV in a light. Small target. Ridiculously durable. Good ROF and excellent matchmaking. The gun has some trouble with Lees and Hetzers, but it really is a small drawback in most matches.
The Derm on
Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
The Valentine is the most fun you can have at tier IV in a light.
Eh, premium. I don't factor premium tanks into discussion of particular classes/tiers.
The Valentine is just weird. Realistically, it is SUCH a medium in every way. However being a light helps it a lot by giving it the camo bonus. Also, it may be Russian for the time being, but it's totally a British tank (and I wouldn't doubt it gets pulled at the eventual inclusion of British tanks, same as the B2).
I really think you need to stop looking at the game this way. For all the bitching people do about it, the German and Russian trees are both frequently powerful in their own ways. People can complain about random IS-series buffs, except at the same time the E-75 is still better than an IS-4, and the E-100 better than an IS-7. Ultimately, it's just the weirdness of the American heavies that shines through here. In contrast, the Germans get the worst medium tanks, while the US actually comes out very well here. T-44/54s carry more speed, but the Pershing/Patton are somehow FAR more reliable in a match, not to mention the insane gun depression they get. And in the TD line, the US gets some real beaters (including the T95 being the beast that it is), and only really suffers in the lower tiers slightly.
Then we have the French, who people are so bad at playing against, are getting a nearly global nerf for being too good. And even then they're still going to be good tanks ...
Seriously, even faction has their shitboxes, and the 'best' tank/TD/SPG in every line is not unquestionably the Russian one. <_<
[Edit]
Footnote - one of the guys in SIMP has only played the game through the French heavy line so far. He complained to us one night that it took 'too many shots to kill a Lowe.'
I asked him how many was too may.
"A full clip of 6 shells."
...
Now just let me remind you that when I was at tier 8 in a T-44, the LB-1 didn't exist. I was using a tier 6 gun to fight Lowes and more durable things besides. It was not uncommon to take 14-20 shells (accounting for bounces) to kill a Lowe. In the meantime, it would kill me in 4-5 hits. The moral of this story? All of us have to push through shit somewhere down a line.
(Even with the inclusion of the LB-1, the Pershing STILL takes the T-44 on almost all fronts.)
I honestly did pretty well in both, but I do think the Ferdi is probably the better Tier 8 TD. The ISU just gets hosed hard by anything that so much as looks in its direction.
I'll take the ISU-152 over the Ferdinand--mediocre gun selection is better than bad gun selection (the 10.5 is really only good on the Jagdpanther, and only in specific cases). It's softer, but not being the tallest tank on the battlefield is always a plus. I do kind of wish I had more chances to try it, have to use my friend's account more often.
The SU-152 isn't able to match the flexibility of the Jagdpanther, and for me that's a big issue. One thing I liked about the ISU-152--great mobility for a Tier 8 TD.
I'll take the ISU-152 over the Ferdinand--mediocre gun selection is better than bad gun selection (the 10.5 is really only good on the Jagdpanther, and only in specific cases). It's softer, but not being the tallest tank on the battlefield is always a plus. I do kind of wish I had more chances to try it, have to use my friend's account more often.
The SU-152 isn't able to match the flexibility of the Jagdpanther, and for me that's a big issue. One thing I liked about the ISU-152--great mobility for a Tier 8 TD.
I know it's not a good idea to just compare elite tanks, but, really, who the fuck cares about the 10.5 at Tier 8? If you're the type of player to put 400 battles on a tank (and we have several people in SIMP that still use the Ferdi and didn't even bother with the JT) then it's basically immaterial. You get past it and then enjoy a wonderful tank. The 128 is a monster gun at Tier 8, in many ways more useful than the BL-10. Against higher tiers the BL-10 is more useful, but if the Ferdi is top of the heap it will generally do extremely well.
The 12.8 is good, but I don't miss my Ferdinand in the least. From the German TD perspective, it's an upgrade nightmare--lovely Porsche engines that are barely worth a shit anyway, hah. The Jagdtiger definitely has its own issues, but at least it doesn't have that problem.
Being able to be comfortable with a middle, rather than just the last gun is always a positive, and not always the case for all TDs, naturally. But it's always a good thing. Given the choice between a horrible ride with a nice destination, and a okay ride with a nice destination, no contest. Which is not to say the ISU-152 doesn't have some bad guns...it does. But nothing wrong with more choices.
I'm glad I don't have to go back to that...unsurprisingly, the second 12.8 is superior in every way, but that's how Tier 9s are. Tier 8's been a sweet spot for me in the past, the Ferdinand was not the case then. Nothing like being penetrated by a Panzer III/IV and going "Wait, huh?"
So I just got back into WoT from when I played at beta and shortly after launch.
Great game, but I made it up to tier 5 with my KV and just went back to tier 2-3 on some new tanks. I keep hearing that the KV is OP, but I absolutely hate it. Sure it's great when I'm in a match with tier 4-6s but literally 9/10 matches I'm with tier 9s. It's absolutely zero fun going 20 km/h for 15 minutes to get halfway across the map and not match a scratch on half the other team.
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I really think you need to stop looking at the game this way.
I really think you're taking me far too seriously.
Eh, sure. It had seemed to be your response to several things lately, as well as your excuse to not play Russian tanks. I just thought I'd try and put things into perspective.
I really think you need to stop looking at the game this way.
I really think you're taking me far too seriously.
Eh, sure. It had seemed to be your response to several things lately, as well as your excuse to not play Russian tanks. I just thought I'd try and put things into perspective.
To be absolutely clear, I do think the Russian tanks are on the whole the best, though of course there are particular classes and tiers where a vehicle from another nation may be superior. And I do think there is some bias on the part of the developers, though I don't think it's as severe as some people apparently do judging from reading the official forums. And my impression that Russian tanks are, to a certain degree, easymode is part of my reason for not wanting to play them, although it also has a lot to do with simply not liking/caring about many/any of their vehicles from a historical perspective and my distaste at the thought of starting a new grind at this point.
But usually, if I make a comment about Russian tanks like the one I made about the T-50, it's intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Mostly.
Really I'm not playing much at all right now because without premium my tier 6-7's are bleeding money.
At any rate, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the special going on right now. 3x experience for first win each day, and half off the gold cost of new garage slots, will I suppose will make some people happy. Also! Half off the price of the M22 Locust...!? So, uh, yeah.
I think Soviet tanks lend themselves to one of the most popular play styles available on WoT's matchups. And that has some historic basis in Soviet tank doctrine.
I used to play TDs exclusively, and thus, sniping was my perogative--in this case, I considered Soviet tanks to be heavily inferior to German tanks. I've changed since then though--hell, I've actually stopped playing for the last few weeks.
There are way too many variations and variables to make the case that they are consistently superior overall to their German or American rivals. But, that's just my take on it.
I'm not saying the Russian vehicle is necessarily the best at every single class and tier point. I believe I expressly indicated I'm not claiming that.
I just think that taken as a whole, there are more class/tier points where the Russian vehicle is superior or at the least easier to play successfully.
Master Tanker! I am now, in a technical sense, a master of tanks. I've always felt this to be the case, but I now have official proof, which will become even more official after my diploma arrives in the mail (they send you a diploma, right?).
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
Grats! What was the last thing you killed?
(Pre-7.2, I needed a GW Typ E, then 7.2 hit, then 2 weeks later all I needed was a GW Typ E =P)
I'm not saying the Russian vehicle is necessarily the best at every single class and tier point. I believe I expressly indicated I'm not claiming that.
I just think that taken as a whole, there are more class/tier points where the Russian vehicle is superior or at the least easier to play successfully.
*shrug*
I can only confidently talk about mediums, and I assure you that the Russians don't have the upper hand here. <_<
Yeah, I was in the same situation, except with the Object 261. Needed it, killed all the French tanks, then still needed it. And I had so many close calls - finding one in my Chaffee and watching as friendly arty finished him off. But I finally got one in my Object 704.
On the EU forums Overlord said two things of interest:
1.) Skills are not getting a reduction in XP cost, but you will be able to get up to 5. Good luck with that one.
2.) He literally stated that the test server produced "garbage data" due to gold round usage. What, exactly, is the fucking point of the test server again? He went on to state that they'll use live server results to further balance the T34 (possibly as soon as 7.3), which is hilarious considering the American line only gets nerfs, never buffs. The last T34 was proven to underperform since fucking launch, and they never did a damn thing for it.
A duck! on
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
1 is a good thing. A great thing, even. Provided it is actually true. Guess we'll see!
2 is actually alright in my books. As a premium tank, I expect they'll pay more attention to it than they did previously. Besides, they're right - if everyone is shooting gold rounds, what's the point of the data? You won't see a tier 8 in clan wars, and it's not common people use gold in pubs, so why should they balance it with gold rounds in mind? With all the people getting a free premium tank, I'm sure we'll find out sooner than later how effective the new T34 actually is.
My complaint isn't that they're not balancing it for gold, but that why do they even fucking bother if their test environment gives them junk data? Why not just turn off gold sales for all but the tier 10 tank guns?
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
I'm not sure they should allow gold at all. They still need to know how the heavies would behave in regular games too ...
In any case, agreed that it seems wasteful. Although they can certainly learn some things, I would think primarily for speed and view ranges, being fairly independent of the gun's capabilities. Overall though, yeah, why bother at all? Great question.
I actually had a lot of fun with the BT-7 (Tier 3 light). MM wasn't always fair, but still fun.
0
ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
As an aside, I still never did hear back about the WoW alpha. I guess they were either swamped with applications, or just stopped caring? Because it's been over a month now, I'm pretty sure ...
They don't care if the premium T34 is still shit, in all probability. The people who already own one will take a little while to figure out it's still terrible because they'll be placated by the idea of getting a free premium. A bunch of people will buy it right away just because it's a new tier 8 premium heavy. By the time everyone realizes it's trash, they'll have made a nice sum of cash and be hyping the new premium IS-4 in the next patch down the line.
As an aside, I still never did hear back about the WoW alpha. I guess they were either swamped with applications, or just stopped caring? Because it's been over a month now, I'm pretty sure ...
You can always try again. I've applied three times before they accepted me. No idea why, really.
As an aside, I still never did hear back about the WoW alpha. I guess they were either swamped with applications, or just stopped caring? Because it's been over a month now, I'm pretty sure ...
You can always try again. I've applied three times before they accepted me. No idea why, really.
Uh, no, I can't ... This makes me wonder if you had that screw up several times, because if I try it again it just tells me, "You've already applied and it's pending approval." before it shows the survey or anything of the sort.
Posts
"When to judge if your team mates are even worth saving, or just bailing on them now to save yourself a firey death ..."
>_>
I had an E-50 bail on me last night after I came to save him from an IS-7. It sure was nice of him to run off and die somewhere else immediately on top of that. =_=
In all seriousness, I agree. You get all these weird situations where bulky heavies are scared to go out against things that will have lots of trouble against them, and then you get all these cases of outclassed tanks standing their ground and getting massacred when they could have fallen back to better positions. French tanks accentuate this play style, but in general it's how I've played mediums for ages. Take a shot and reposition. Try to be unpredictable. Make the enemy expect you to be somewhere else.
Oh, the thing that SHOULD be easiest to understand on paper, but people seem to have no grasp of: Patience.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
A skill matching system could even match lower skilled high tier/heavy tank players with higher skilled lower tier/lighter tank players to some degree to make matches more interesting. Would be even neater to have a sort of automagic match-up recommendation system akin to amazon & netflix recommendations, where you can like/dislike your teammates and battle results and it takes that into account. While practically everyone likes a match skewed in their favor, the opposing team will dislike the same so it would hopefully even out. If they get the statistics right they could even start rewarding people more for winning a match stacked against them or put out challenge match ups with fixed tank types.
I'm usually in limp mode.
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
Fuck YOU sir. My Luchs is still one of the most fun tanks I've played.
Tier 4 lights are pretty sad, though.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The Valentine is the most fun you can have at tier IV in a light. Small target. Ridiculously durable. Good ROF and excellent matchmaking. The gun has some trouble with Lees and Hetzers, but it really is a small drawback in most matches.
Such a heavy burden now to be the one
Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
To write it down for all the world to see
But I forgot my pen...
And, coincidentally, is Russian.
Eh, premium. I don't factor premium tanks into discussion of particular classes/tiers.
I really think you need to stop looking at the game this way. For all the bitching people do about it, the German and Russian trees are both frequently powerful in their own ways. People can complain about random IS-series buffs, except at the same time the E-75 is still better than an IS-4, and the E-100 better than an IS-7. Ultimately, it's just the weirdness of the American heavies that shines through here. In contrast, the Germans get the worst medium tanks, while the US actually comes out very well here. T-44/54s carry more speed, but the Pershing/Patton are somehow FAR more reliable in a match, not to mention the insane gun depression they get. And in the TD line, the US gets some real beaters (including the T95 being the beast that it is), and only really suffers in the lower tiers slightly.
Then we have the French, who people are so bad at playing against, are getting a nearly global nerf for being too good. And even then they're still going to be good tanks ...
Seriously, even faction has their shitboxes, and the 'best' tank/TD/SPG in every line is not unquestionably the Russian one. <_<
[Edit]
Footnote - one of the guys in SIMP has only played the game through the French heavy line so far. He complained to us one night that it took 'too many shots to kill a Lowe.'
I asked him how many was too may.
"A full clip of 6 shells."
...
Now just let me remind you that when I was at tier 8 in a T-44, the LB-1 didn't exist. I was using a tier 6 gun to fight Lowes and more durable things besides. It was not uncommon to take 14-20 shells (accounting for bounces) to kill a Lowe. In the meantime, it would kill me in 4-5 hits. The moral of this story? All of us have to push through shit somewhere down a line.
(Even with the inclusion of the LB-1, the Pershing STILL takes the T-44 on almost all fronts.)
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
The SU-152 isn't able to match the flexibility of the Jagdpanther, and for me that's a big issue. One thing I liked about the ISU-152--great mobility for a Tier 8 TD.
I really think you're taking me far too seriously.
I know it's not a good idea to just compare elite tanks, but, really, who the fuck cares about the 10.5 at Tier 8? If you're the type of player to put 400 battles on a tank (and we have several people in SIMP that still use the Ferdi and didn't even bother with the JT) then it's basically immaterial. You get past it and then enjoy a wonderful tank. The 128 is a monster gun at Tier 8, in many ways more useful than the BL-10. Against higher tiers the BL-10 is more useful, but if the Ferdi is top of the heap it will generally do extremely well.
Being able to be comfortable with a middle, rather than just the last gun is always a positive, and not always the case for all TDs, naturally. But it's always a good thing. Given the choice between a horrible ride with a nice destination, and a okay ride with a nice destination, no contest. Which is not to say the ISU-152 doesn't have some bad guns...it does. But nothing wrong with more choices.
I'm glad I don't have to go back to that...unsurprisingly, the second 12.8 is superior in every way, but that's how Tier 9s are. Tier 8's been a sweet spot for me in the past, the Ferdinand was not the case then. Nothing like being penetrated by a Panzer III/IV and going "Wait, huh?"
Great game, but I made it up to tier 5 with my KV and just went back to tier 2-3 on some new tanks. I keep hearing that the KV is OP, but I absolutely hate it. Sure it's great when I'm in a match with tier 4-6s but literally 9/10 matches I'm with tier 9s. It's absolutely zero fun going 20 km/h for 15 minutes to get halfway across the map and not match a scratch on half the other team.
Eh, sure. It had seemed to be your response to several things lately, as well as your excuse to not play Russian tanks. I just thought I'd try and put things into perspective.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
To be absolutely clear, I do think the Russian tanks are on the whole the best, though of course there are particular classes and tiers where a vehicle from another nation may be superior. And I do think there is some bias on the part of the developers, though I don't think it's as severe as some people apparently do judging from reading the official forums. And my impression that Russian tanks are, to a certain degree, easymode is part of my reason for not wanting to play them, although it also has a lot to do with simply not liking/caring about many/any of their vehicles from a historical perspective and my distaste at the thought of starting a new grind at this point.
But usually, if I make a comment about Russian tanks like the one I made about the T-50, it's intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Mostly.
Really I'm not playing much at all right now because without premium my tier 6-7's are bleeding money.
At any rate, I'm surprised nobody's mentioned the special going on right now. 3x experience for first win each day, and half off the gold cost of new garage slots, will I suppose will make some people happy. Also! Half off the price of the M22 Locust...!? So, uh, yeah.
I used to play TDs exclusively, and thus, sniping was my perogative--in this case, I considered Soviet tanks to be heavily inferior to German tanks. I've changed since then though--hell, I've actually stopped playing for the last few weeks.
There are way too many variations and variables to make the case that they are consistently superior overall to their German or American rivals. But, that's just my take on it.
I just think that taken as a whole, there are more class/tier points where the Russian vehicle is superior or at the least easier to play successfully.
(Pre-7.2, I needed a GW Typ E, then 7.2 hit, then 2 weeks later all I needed was a GW Typ E =P)
*shrug*
I can only confidently talk about mediums, and I assure you that the Russians don't have the upper hand here. <_<
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
I play KV, KV-3, KV-13, and S-51. I don't really grind any further. I didn't like the IS but I'll probably enjoy the KV-4 when it comes out.
I don't appreciate being cannon fodder for tier 8,9,10s. Do I need to get into a different clan than WANG to try clan games or something?
!!!!▓▓▓▓▓Gravy?▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!
!!!!!!▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!!!!
of doom
Get a Luchs. (Tier 3 german light) upgrade it fully, have a fucking blast.
1.) Skills are not getting a reduction in XP cost, but you will be able to get up to 5. Good luck with that one.
2.) He literally stated that the test server produced "garbage data" due to gold round usage. What, exactly, is the fucking point of the test server again? He went on to state that they'll use live server results to further balance the T34 (possibly as soon as 7.3), which is hilarious considering the American line only gets nerfs, never buffs. The last T34 was proven to underperform since fucking launch, and they never did a damn thing for it.
2 is actually alright in my books. As a premium tank, I expect they'll pay more attention to it than they did previously. Besides, they're right - if everyone is shooting gold rounds, what's the point of the data? You won't see a tier 8 in clan wars, and it's not common people use gold in pubs, so why should they balance it with gold rounds in mind? With all the people getting a free premium tank, I'm sure we'll find out sooner than later how effective the new T34 actually is.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
In any case, agreed that it seems wasteful. Although they can certainly learn some things, I would think primarily for speed and view ranges, being fairly independent of the gun's capabilities. Overall though, yeah, why bother at all? Great question.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
You can always try again. I've applied three times before they accepted me. No idea why, really.
IS-6, you mean.
I have no idea why anyone would want to pay real money for the T34.
Also I think I read somewhere they might not even sell it.
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Yep, you're right, IS-6, total brainfart there. All I remembered was there was some new premium Stalin in the pipeline.
I can't imagine they wouldn't sell the T34 at least for a little while. Guaranteed some people will buy it.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?