I just read through The Fall on a whim. Why was that not just AC3? I would have loved to see that expanded on. Except for the being horribly depressing part I suppose.
So, I'm wishing the I hadn't started doing the Truth sections, even if it is fictional, there's some blatant political bias going on.
That's probably the most interesting thing I've ever heard about them... Go on...
For reals or are you taking the piss?
It's pretty clearly shown Capitalism in AC is a tool of Satan the Templars use to control us mindless slobs. Every capitalist/industrialist ever was a cackling Snidley Whiplash who were planning to steal our souls. It's pretty gung-ho about Communism too, the Bolshevik Revolution was backed by the Assassins after all. Not to mention all the Templar controled clergy who use religion to achieve their ends with the masses, despite being Athesists themselves.
But again, this is based off of every conspiracy building in the book, I'm surprised the Templars aren't behind 9/11 too.
Keep playing...
Also I don't think its nearly that cut and dry. Pretty much everyone in powee, Democrat or republican, was a templar.
Assassins are the underdog. In history the underdog is more often than not the common man, the middle class. So of course they're backing the PEOPLE in the bolshivik revolution. Not communism.
I suppose, yet the Templars seem to be backing certain idealogies rather than parties.
Again, I don't take it too seriously. This is the same canon that had Hitler, FDR and Winston Fucking Churchill work together to mastermind World War II to get more power for the Templars.
As a note to how absurd that is, Churchill once said if Hitler invaded hell, he'd give passing praise to the Devil in Parliment.
The central theme has always been the disempowering of the common man and the empowering of leaders. It was kings and Emperors before the modern times, and you have to admit that during the 60's we ran around the world engaging in actions which more or less did exactly that in the name of fighting communism.
Laissez faire capitalism is a bad thing, yet even now we have tons of people who think it's just peachy despite the net effect being to empower a class of oligarchs.
AssBro's truth focused on how the Templars moved away from outright autocracies and religious corruption to more subtle control with corporations and media. Assassins can stab kings and popes, but they couldn't adapt their brazen methods to democracies even though that's what they supposedly want. This is the biggest failing of the Assassins that even Lucrezia points out, they're really good at killing the bad guys but they can't follow through with actually solving the source of the problem, so even worse bad guys take their place. And so Ezio continues to promote prostitution and thievery when he should be trying to create a world where that isn't necessary.
AssBro's truth focused on how the Templars moved away from outright autocracies and religious corruption to more subtle control with corporations and media. Assassins can stab kings and popes, but they couldn't adapt their brazen methods to democracies even though that's what they supposedly want. This is the biggest failing of the Assassins that even Lucrezia points out, they're really good at killing the bad guys but they can't follow through with actually solving the source of the problem, so even worse bad guys take their place. And so Ezio continues to promote prostitution and thievery when he should be trying to create a world where that isn't necessary.
Makes sense... Whole conversation here is blowing my mind. Maybe I didn't get this stuff because I rushed through all three games in about a week due to time constraints...
Yeah, where that little Assassin idiot was rambling in Venice about how the true nobles of the world were the prostitutes and thieves, I wanted to smack the little git upside the head.
But I suppose it's to be expected, it's the same treatment pirates get. They're 'noble' rebels.
Yeah, where that little Assassin idiot was rambling in Venice about how the true nobles of the world were the prostitutes and thieves, I wanted to smack the little git upside the head.
But I suppose it's to be expected, it's the same treatment pirates get. They're 'noble' rebels.
Except in that context he was actually right - in the environment he was in, the noble's basically treated the people and their city like playthings. Like, why were they invading some place he didn't know of and being taxed for it? What benefit was Venice controlling some extra place bringing to him?
His basic point was that the working people are as noble as any 'noble'.
To me it seems like the whole problem for the Assassin's throughout the ages is that they're a purely reactionary force - they're the good guys, so they can't become rulers for fear of being tyrants, but it also means they can only ever try and stop the worst people. It's in their creed - "always hide in the crowd".
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KlykaDO you have anySPARE BATTERIES?Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Their creed is also "nothing is true, everything is permitted".
Their creed is also "nothing is true, everything is permitted".
Hence Altair's musings on the inherent contradictions of their existence, and it would seem, the dramatic changes he enacted to reform the order.
That part of the creed though would seem like it's also stating that the Assassin's should avoid making anything true as well i.e. by becoming rulers and decreeing law.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
In the Banker mission....does the Banker murder the Courtesan who's with him as he walks through the orgy party to Cesare's speech? Like, I don't know what happens there, but he walks to the corner and then I see her lying down and then staying lain down as a guard comes up to him?
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
So I just finished playing through AssBro again and I was wondering about some things
Could we possibly see some more of him? Ezio seems pretty worried about his "no mortal can kill me" line, like he might actually take Cesare seriously. Or it could just be Cesare thinking that he is all powerful and important and can't possibly die.
Also, as you are working your way towards the apple as Desmond, Juno says something along the lines of how they can't beat "him" or can only stop "him" for so long. Who is she talking about?
Edit: I just looked it up on the wiki, she is apparently talking about time. I guess I didn't hear the first part of the conversation correctly and assumed she was talking about an actual person, not a metaphor.
Up to 92% completion, just need the 3 Borgia flags in the Vatican Romulus Lair, Sequences 8 and 9, and finish up a handful of guild challenges.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
100% synchronization across AssBro and the Da Vinci Disappearance, still a few more miscellaneous single player achievements (Strong Arm, Grand Theft Dressage, and the parachute assassination one) to pick up
Just finished up the main story in Brotherhood. Ending was kind of a letdown after how awesome AC2's was. I'm mostly just confused, but happy that I don't have a huge wait ahead of me for Revelations. The Truth would probably have been a bigger shocker had I not stumbled over bits and pieces of spoiler and already had it put together. Can hardly complain about that when I'm this late to the party though.
Its just scary how much content there still is in there, not to mention the DLC. Still haven't touched the last Romulus lair, most of the repressed memories, or half of the Leonardo missions.
It's the same thing Macbeth and the Witch-King pulled
Cesare says no man can murder him, so Ezio lets gravity do the work
Irony!
I still think there's something more to that scene
Ezio was pretty worried about whatever the apple showed him, even though Cesare wasn't a real threat anymore he rushed to kill him
plus the Animus was bugging out all over that scene for no clear reason
It could've been bugging out because of Ezio's emotional state though - they did establish that Ezio's emotions could mess with Desmond reliving an experience -
and well, killing Cesare would be a pretty important moment for Ezio seeing as the dude killed Mario, destroyed Monterigionni and kidnapped Caterina.
I'm pretty sure Ezio was adamant about not repeating a prior mistake (leaving the Borgia alive) - hence why he went to so much effort to get Cesare.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I really should get around to buying The DaVinci Disappearance. Maybe once I finish L.A. Noire.
Thats my plan - wait a couple months (because it could possibly go on sale...) before diving into Da Vinci. I have a bigger backlog than Im comfortable with, and this way it will be another little taste that makes the wait for Revelations that much more bearable.
I finally ran into a pretty big complaint - although "big" doesn't mean important.
I got the last repressed memory, and after absolutely loving the prior ones, was really really dissapointed with it.
I had no fucking idea what was going on at all. The other ones did an amazing job of putting my mind back to the times they were intended in. Both dialogue and visual cues always made me perfectly aware of when these memories took place.
This one started and I had no idea when it was happening. I saw the date and tried to do some quick math but just couldn't place what Ezio was doing in that year.
Then I see the husband dying and got the prompt to find some guys men. Who? I was hoping for a database entry on the mystery man, but nothing. I find the men, and after a nice scene it ends.
The conclusion kind of ruined by the fact I felt so lost I couldn't focus on the gravity of it all.
I looked up Cristina on the AC Wiki, and followed the links to find out it was all during the Battle of Forli DLC. The memories that were missing from AC2. The DLC I didnt buy because I heard it wasn't very good.
It would have been really nice if at any point it kind of filled me in there.
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wait, wasnt very good? I just finished AC2 which included both DLC episodes and i must say im surprised that these two sequences are DLC in some versions. they honestly made most of the meat of the second half of the game to me and without them the game would never feel complete. Both are very nicely done and a LOT more engaging then anything found in the maingame.
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Mike Danger"Diane..."a place both wonderful and strangeRegistered Userregular
Yeah, and the resounding opinion on them was blah at best. 2 sequences that everyone said was just a whoooole lot of endless combat with nothing too fun about it.
That, plus no achievements for them really made me decide to pass on it.
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
I never actually finished the Bonfire of the Vanities DLC.
Yeah, and the resounding opinion on them was blah at best. 2 sequences that everyone said was just a whoooole lot of endless combat with nothing too fun about it.
That, plus no achievements for them really made me decide to pass on it.
Battle of Forli is very combat heavy, but Bonfire of the Vanities is great. When you play with the DLC integrated into the story they both feel like they belong there except you don't get an achievement when you finish the sequence.
the game features no comabt heavy parts otherwise, i think for a game to feel complete it should have sections like those as well. Im not saying its my favorite part or anything, but it just fits in very well at that point, because really theres a LOT to do in this game to optimize your equipment but very little content that actually makes use of it. That and without the DLC the entire area of Forli is basically optional. And it also felt like it had a much tighter story then many other sections of the game (not to mention that this women had a grand introduction that would have gone nowhere otherwise).
You see, in AC2 I had to constantly do the optional assassination missions because really, I felt like there wasnt enough gameplay during the story sections, which rarely posed any challenge whatsoever. In my version of AC2 these two episodes come right where the game needed more meat imo, so I think if you skipped them you missed out.
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Battle of Forli was worth it if only for Caterina's wonderfully filthy rant at the bad guys. The bigger problem with a combat-heavy sequence like that was before Brotherhood they hadn't come up with a great combat system. The pieces were in place, but it hadn't all come together. Combo attack until you got a kill, counter, combo, combo, counter. There was no real rhythm to it, so even when Ezio was incredibly powerful it still never quite became satisfying. That all changed with Brotherhood and its combo kills, which gave combat a sense of power and flow that was missing before and made it far more enjoyable than prior. In AC1 and 2 I generally ran from large groups of enemies, while in Brotherhood that became "bring it on."
Bonfire of the Vanities was far more interesting, but a few of the missions were just piss-poor design and incredibly frustrating (ship assassination, I'm looking at you).
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darunia106J-bob in gamesDeath MountainRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
So I just finished Assassin's Creed II and I'll have to agree with the past few posts, the dlc while flawed added some much needed meat to the end of the game and gives you some time to play with all the weapons and armor you got. Not to mention stealthing around and killing dudes is still very fun and luckily bonfire had a lot of that.
While I was able to complete the Truth, I'm playing the PC version so no achievements means I see very little benefit in finishing the side missions or getting the feathers. Is there anything worthwhile that happens when you get 100% synchronization like an extra scene or something? If not I think I'm done with the game and will pounce on Assassin's Creed Brotherhood next time it's on sale.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Well, all feathers gets you the family cape. Half of them gets you a weapon.
Otherwise, I don't think there's an in-game reward for 100%.
Bonfire of the Vanities was far more interesting, but a few of the missions were just piss-poor design and incredibly frustrating (ship assassination, I'm looking at you).
At the same time, I did like having to work at an assassination. Made you properly think about the planning involved and in what order deeds needed doing.
Is anybody still playing PC multiplayer? I just started up recently and it is super addictive, but it takes forever for the matchmaking system to get me a game. Really looking forward to the playlist options and other improvements in Revelations.
Anyway, if you're up for a game, add Rollsavager. I prefer the Manhunt, Assassinate, and Escort modes, but I'll play anything.
Is there any word if Revealations is keeping kill streaks? Cause that would be terrible if they ditched them.
I do hope killstreaks get a bit of a downgrade. They were amazing, so amazing that they make it hard to justify using some of the other tricks. With all the new goodies in Revelations that we've seen, I kind of want them to be necessary.
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The central theme has always been the disempowering of the common man and the empowering of leaders. It was kings and Emperors before the modern times, and you have to admit that during the 60's we ran around the world engaging in actions which more or less did exactly that in the name of fighting communism.
Laissez faire capitalism is a bad thing, yet even now we have tons of people who think it's just peachy despite the net effect being to empower a class of oligarchs.
Makes sense... Whole conversation here is blowing my mind. Maybe I didn't get this stuff because I rushed through all three games in about a week due to time constraints...
But I suppose it's to be expected, it's the same treatment pirates get. They're 'noble' rebels.
Except in that context he was actually right - in the environment he was in, the noble's basically treated the people and their city like playthings. Like, why were they invading some place he didn't know of and being taxed for it? What benefit was Venice controlling some extra place bringing to him?
His basic point was that the working people are as noble as any 'noble'.
To me it seems like the whole problem for the Assassin's throughout the ages is that they're a purely reactionary force - they're the good guys, so they can't become rulers for fear of being tyrants, but it also means they can only ever try and stop the worst people. It's in their creed - "always hide in the crowd".
Hence Altair's musings on the inherent contradictions of their existence, and it would seem, the dramatic changes he enacted to reform the order.
That part of the creed though would seem like it's also stating that the Assassin's should avoid making anything true as well i.e. by becoming rulers and decreeing law.
Try turning off all the icons except for the Borgia flags. Otherwise, maybe you missed a flag map somewhere?
AssBro:
Did you get all of the ones in the Romulus lairs? Each Romulus lair has 3 flags.
Each Rom Lair has 3 in it, get all those? They aren't on the maps.
EDIT Beat'd. Sorry didn't notice.
Also, as you are working your way towards the apple as Desmond, Juno says something along the lines of how they can't beat "him" or can only stop "him" for so long. Who is she talking about?
Edit: I just looked it up on the wiki, she is apparently talking about time. I guess I didn't hear the first part of the conversation correctly and assumed she was talking about an actual person, not a metaphor.
Cesare says no man can murder him, so Ezio lets gravity do the work
Irony!
Ezio was pretty worried about whatever the apple showed him, even though Cesare wasn't a real threat anymore he rushed to kill him
plus the Animus was bugging out all over that scene for no clear reason
Its just scary how much content there still is in there, not to mention the DLC. Still haven't touched the last Romulus lair, most of the repressed memories, or half of the Leonardo missions.
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It could've been bugging out because of Ezio's emotional state though - they did establish that Ezio's emotions could mess with Desmond reliving an experience -
I'm pretty sure Ezio was adamant about not repeating a prior mistake (leaving the Borgia alive) - hence why he went to so much effort to get Cesare.
I finally ran into a pretty big complaint - although "big" doesn't mean important.
I got the last repressed memory, and after absolutely loving the prior ones, was really really dissapointed with it.
This one started and I had no idea when it was happening. I saw the date and tried to do some quick math but just couldn't place what Ezio was doing in that year.
Then I see the husband dying and got the prompt to find some guys men. Who? I was hoping for a database entry on the mystery man, but nothing. I find the men, and after a nice scene it ends.
The conclusion kind of ruined by the fact I felt so lost I couldn't focus on the gravity of it all.
I looked up Cristina on the AC Wiki, and followed the links to find out it was all during the Battle of Forli DLC. The memories that were missing from AC2. The DLC I didnt buy because I heard it wasn't very good.
It would have been really nice if at any point it kind of filled me in there.
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That, plus no achievements for them really made me decide to pass on it.
Battle of Forli is very combat heavy, but Bonfire of the Vanities is great. When you play with the DLC integrated into the story they both feel like they belong there except you don't get an achievement when you finish the sequence.
You see, in AC2 I had to constantly do the optional assassination missions because really, I felt like there wasnt enough gameplay during the story sections, which rarely posed any challenge whatsoever. In my version of AC2 these two episodes come right where the game needed more meat imo, so I think if you skipped them you missed out.
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Bonfire of the Vanities was far more interesting, but a few of the missions were just piss-poor design and incredibly frustrating (ship assassination, I'm looking at you).
While I was able to complete the Truth, I'm playing the PC version so no achievements means I see very little benefit in finishing the side missions or getting the feathers. Is there anything worthwhile that happens when you get 100% synchronization like an extra scene or something? If not I think I'm done with the game and will pounce on Assassin's Creed Brotherhood next time it's on sale.
Otherwise, I don't think there's an in-game reward for 100%.
At the same time, I did like having to work at an assassination. Made you properly think about the planning involved and in what order deeds needed doing.
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Anyway, if you're up for a game, add Rollsavager. I prefer the Manhunt, Assassinate, and Escort modes, but I'll play anything.
Ezio, Il Lupo (The Prowler), or Lia de Russo (The Smuggler)?
I do hope killstreaks get a bit of a downgrade. They were amazing, so amazing that they make it hard to justify using some of the other tricks. With all the new goodies in Revelations that we've seen, I kind of want them to be necessary.
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