I think the combat needs improvement. I think that it's much easier to make a fun shooting game in first person than a fun melee system. Building various weapons and ammo like slings and javelins and so on would be interesting, and dealing with lunging melee opponents.
I think the combat needs improvement. I think that it's much easier to make a fun shooting game in first person than a fun melee system. Building various weapons and ammo like slings and javelins and so on would be interesting, and dealing with lunging melee opponents.
Wouldn't hurt. I think it might get a little distracting if combat got too compelling to be honest though, with combos and such.
I realise that Minecraft is supposed to be a sandbox game, but what do you do once you've built your bedrock-to-sky scale-model golden wang?
You build a better one, or you build something else? I don't get why a game fundamentally has to have goals and objectives.
Criticizing a game like minecraft for lack of "narrative" is missing the point.
Games are fundamentally about goals and objectives. That is the entire point of a game. Beat x challenge in y entertaining fashion. You play against another person, in which case they are the challenger, or the game, making the game itself provide the challenge. Score the goal, kill the monster, build the building. Like most things in life, as is also true in games, a trivial or nonexistent challenge tends to not be terribly rewarding. Nobody cheers when they score a goal on an unguarded net.
Minecraft is straddling uncomfortably between a toy and a game. If you want a toy, creative mode or peaceful single player ought to thrill a person just fine. If you want a game, survival mode is insipid.
The distinction is exactly my point. I can buy a box of Hotwheels and play a game with my friend call "Hot Face" where you throw Hotwheels at the other person's face until one of you starts crying. That doesn't make Hotwheels a game.
The distinction is exactly my point. I can buy a box of Hotwheels and play a game with my friend call "Hot Face" where you throw Hotwheels at the other person's face until one of you starts crying. That doesn't make Hotwheels a game.
I'm not even sure what your point is. Minecraft isn't a game because it doesn't have objectives?
It's a half assed game. Minecraft does have designed objectives and challenges. The problem is they're an anemic afterthought that can be conquered in minutes and are not satisfying to overcome.
It hints at being a game. It has a "survival" mode whose very namesake suggests that the challenge is staying alive and subsisting. It is not much of a challenge to do that. It has monsters which assail and attack you, which become a trivial nuisance the second you find iron and make a dirt hovel to take shelter in at night. It hectors you with robust building systems to build a fortress--nevermind the fact that your first night's dirt hovel is about as safe and useful as the biggest cobblestone castle.
It would be one thing if the game didn't have any pretense of "game-ness" and it was truly virtual Legos where the exclusive formula is blocks+imagination with no other mechanics whatsoever. That is not the case.
And even then, the notion that because minecraft doesn't have the objectives laid out for you ("Go kill bad guy X!"), therefor it does not have objectives is silly.
Right now I am building an awesome clock tower. Its my goal, my objective. I defined and created it myself. Not every game needs to tell you what to do.
I think the uneasiness comes from Minecraft on the one hand acting like a game with objectives (make house be safe find diamonds) and on the other more of a tool with which you make stuff. SSP has this awful feeling of 'wow look at this incredible thing I've made!' (...) 'Oh. No-one else is going to see this apart from me'.
At least in SMP there are other people around to comment.
But you're also wanting something from minecraft that it really isn't meant to be. Zombies and such are just there to add more "stuff" to the game, not to make it a low res left4dead. If the thought of making an even grander house than your dirt hole doesn't appeal to you then fundamentally a game like minecraft isn't going to appeal to you. You have to enjoy it for the sake of doing it, not because the game attaches some false sense of importance to it.
I'm not and have not even remotely suggested that minecraft needs some kind of "quest" system where directions are spelled out for you.
If the game had enemy AI goblins that built settlements near you and raided your base regularly, one of your self-directed objectives might be to slaughter them all and raze their fort to the ground so they can't repopulate. The game is no less open-ended and self directed by allowing a more complex interaction like that-- one that has a tangible and beneficial gameplay benefit.
You might derive a lot of satisfaction from building a clock tower, great. I have room in my heart for vanity projects. The problem is that there is only vanity projects, and they do nothing. They do not ameliorate your situation in any way that the game recognizes. Transportation systems are the only exception where pointlessly excessive vanity design results in actual convenience.
I strongly believe that all good stories have a conflict, and that all good games tell a good story regardless of if it's pre-written or emergent. Free building mode is fine and dandy, but for many people it will ultimately become boring once you've got it figured out. It's like playing a first person shooter in god mode, or giving yourself infinite funds in a strategy game.. a lack of challenge kills the fun.
For survival mode, I'd rather make the game too difficult than too easy. That also means I'm going to have to include some way of winning the game (or some other climax) to prevent it becoming too exhausting.
I will say notch himself did say months ago he plans to add bosses, objectives, and the ability to beat survival, because survival mode really wasn't that different from classic.
I've only given this little thought, but if Notch set a story/objectives/goal/etc...
what would happen once someone has "beaten the game"?
You get a knock on the door, and when you answer it, it's someone telling you its all real, and that they need you to go to Swedish wilderness and help make civilization.
Nought on
On fire
.
Island. Being on fire.
0
Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
[email protected]v2
nationsatwar.dyndns.org
We're ready for beta testing. Aculem is ready for any bug reports. /naw help to get plugin commands. Right now we've enabled the ability for anyone to grant themselves, or others for that matter, iConomy using /money grant player amount.
Ein also updated the texture pack. It'll likely update again with a few small changes here is the pack. Make sure to use the HD texture patcher found here.
Since people haven't kept up and have some questions. We're running a custom coded Townyesque plugin that allows you to form a nation with whomever you want, and leave said nation if you'd like to join another, buy plots of land, rent plots of land and sell them, all through iConomy. The map we're on is just a randomly generated one, we're using for the beta test. I figure it'll take a few days to work out the plugin bugs, bukkit to get stable, and for a couple plugins to be updated. Also we're still working on the pricing math.
You know, like people in a certain nation not being allowed to use iron to make armor, or this nation is allied with this nation, dumb shit like that. People mentioned it last time you did the NaW thing.
This time, i hope its the whole "spend iconomy for a nation to get a skill, for sed nation" because if so that would be awesome. And if not that, well... what is it going to be like?
Notyetdone on
Sometimes, when no one is watching..
I dig straight down...
Im going to laugh when i see on the news that a criminal prone kid strangled his brother to death with a shoelace when he erased his minecraft save.
Spend iconomy to buy create a nation and buy plots. Also you'll be able to buy things from vendors. We're considering the ability to buy skills with iconomy, but it would be player based not nation one.
Honestly, forcing the download of a few mods for NaW1 probably would have allowed the thing to run a lot smoother, and allowed some more elegant balance fixes.
At the cost of excluding some of the more technological illiterates, MechMantis. I don't know off hand what percent of minecrafters understand stuff like the minecraft.jar folder and the difference between main folder mods and .jar mods.
I think notch is looking at minecraft as moving towards the same kind of genre as roguelikes and dwarf fortress, in terms of survival. Given the massive success of the "be in the world and build shit" mode he has made, that will always be available, but the game-ier game is something that will be pretty long term and tough to win, judging by his comments.
just loaded up the crafting of mines , it did an update and now it just black screens after log in. I tried reverting to an older /jar file and getting a different minecraft.exe from notch's site and so far no luck. I have checked the minecraft forums but that is a bit like wearing arm floaties on your head in a kiddie pool.
So I am kind of stumped, any thoughts?
Posts
You build a better one, or you build something else? I don't get why a game fundamentally has to have goals and objectives.
Criticizing a game like minecraft for lack of "narrative" is missing the point.
Agreed. I suppose I just suffer from analysis paralysis when presented with a true sandbox with no goals or restrictions.
Put it down to too many years playing narrative-driven games since my Lego days.
Wouldn't hurt. I think it might get a little distracting if combat got too compelling to be honest though, with combos and such.
Games are fundamentally about goals and objectives. That is the entire point of a game. Beat x challenge in y entertaining fashion. You play against another person, in which case they are the challenger, or the game, making the game itself provide the challenge. Score the goal, kill the monster, build the building. Like most things in life, as is also true in games, a trivial or nonexistent challenge tends to not be terribly rewarding. Nobody cheers when they score a goal on an unguarded net.
Minecraft is straddling uncomfortably between a toy and a game. If you want a toy, creative mode or peaceful single player ought to thrill a person just fine. If you want a game, survival mode is insipid.
And your distinction between toy and game is silly. A toy is something you play a game with.
I'm not even sure what your point is. Minecraft isn't a game because it doesn't have objectives?
It hints at being a game. It has a "survival" mode whose very namesake suggests that the challenge is staying alive and subsisting. It is not much of a challenge to do that. It has monsters which assail and attack you, which become a trivial nuisance the second you find iron and make a dirt hovel to take shelter in at night. It hectors you with robust building systems to build a fortress--nevermind the fact that your first night's dirt hovel is about as safe and useful as the biggest cobblestone castle.
It would be one thing if the game didn't have any pretense of "game-ness" and it was truly virtual Legos where the exclusive formula is blocks+imagination with no other mechanics whatsoever. That is not the case.
Right now I am building an awesome clock tower. Its my goal, my objective. I defined and created it myself. Not every game needs to tell you what to do.
At least in SMP there are other people around to comment.
If the game had enemy AI goblins that built settlements near you and raided your base regularly, one of your self-directed objectives might be to slaughter them all and raze their fort to the ground so they can't repopulate. The game is no less open-ended and self directed by allowing a more complex interaction like that-- one that has a tangible and beneficial gameplay benefit.
You might derive a lot of satisfaction from building a clock tower, great. I have room in my heart for vanity projects. The problem is that there is only vanity projects, and they do nothing. They do not ameliorate your situation in any way that the game recognizes. Transportation systems are the only exception where pointlessly excessive vanity design results in actual convenience.
This is from the "about" section on Minecraft.net
what would happen once someone has "beaten the game"?
You get a knock on the door, and when you answer it, it's someone telling you its all real, and that they need you to go to Swedish wilderness and help make civilization.
.
Island. Being on fire.
New Game +?
nationsatwar.dyndns.org
We're ready for beta testing. Aculem is ready for any bug reports. /naw help to get plugin commands. Right now we've enabled the ability for anyone to grant themselves, or others for that matter, iConomy using /money grant player amount.
Please submit any bugs here.
Ein also updated the texture pack. It'll likely update again with a few small changes here is the pack. Make sure to use the HD texture patcher found here.
This time, i hope its the whole "spend iconomy for a nation to get a skill, for sed nation" because if so that would be awesome. And if not that, well... what is it going to be like?
I dig straight down...
Im going to laugh when i see on the news that a criminal prone kid strangled his brother to death with a shoelace when he erased his minecraft save.
but it's a little late for a postmortem so
Now I can't find out how to mass craft. How do you do it?
you never could? You must have had a mod installed.
Silly me. It was in my last mod compilation.
Beta testers at war?
Awww yeeeeah.
just loaded up the crafting of mines , it did an update and now it just black screens after log in. I tried reverting to an older /jar file and getting a different minecraft.exe from notch's site and so far no luck. I have checked the minecraft forums but that is a bit like wearing arm floaties on your head in a kiddie pool.
So I am kind of stumped, any thoughts?
I really have no clue.