Oh, also since I'm already asking questions and broke my news blackout for a bit because I couldn't avoid looking at the runestones; have they said anything about how they're handling ladder/non-ladder characters this time around?
I guess what I"m asking is; in D2, if you made a ladder character you had access to all sorts of runewords and such that you didn't otherwise. Then at the end of the ladder season your character was moved off the ladder and you lost any access to those runewords. I found this to be incredibly shitty, and rarely made ladder characters due to it. It's shit to lose access to stuff that you earned for any reason. Are they doing this nonsense again? Or do they have a better system? I couldn't possibly care less about the ladder itself but I don't think it's fair to be deprived of content just because I don't want to participate in an epeen competition. I mean, it'd be like if at the end of every raid tier or pvp season, blizzard removed half your gear for some arbitrary reason; and then told you on top of that, you couldn't use that character to participate in the next tier/season.
Oh, also since I'm already asking questions and broke my news blackout for a bit because I couldn't avoid looking at the runestones; have they said anything about how they're handling ladder/non-ladder characters this time around?
I guess what I"m asking is; in D2, if you made a ladder character you had access to all sorts of runewords and such that you didn't otherwise. Then at the end of the ladder season your character was moved off the ladder and you lost any access to those runewords. I found this to be incredibly shitty, and rarely made ladder characters due to it. It's shit to lose access to stuff that you earned for any reason. Are they doing this nonsense again? Or do they have a better system? I couldn't possibly care less about the ladder itself but I don't think it's fair to be deprived of content just because I don't want to participate in an epeen competition. I mean, it'd be like if at the end of every raid tier or pvp season, blizzard removed half your gear for some arbitrary reason; and then told you on top of that, you couldn't use that character to participate in the next tier/season.
Ugh.
They have not announced any sort of ladder or BNet tiering of any sort. I would be mildly surprised (but not shocked) if they implemented something like that for D3.
FWIW, in Diablo II, if you make a ladder-only runeword while on a Ladder character, when it gets moved to non-Ladder, you keep the runeword. You just can't make another one.
Oh, also since I'm already asking questions and broke my news blackout for a bit because I couldn't avoid looking at the runestones; have they said anything about how they're handling ladder/non-ladder characters this time around?
I guess what I"m asking is; in D2, if you made a ladder character you had access to all sorts of runewords and such that you didn't otherwise. Then at the end of the ladder season your character was moved off the ladder and you lost any access to those runewords. I found this to be incredibly shitty, and rarely made ladder characters due to it. It's shit to lose access to stuff that you earned for any reason. Are they doing this nonsense again? Or do they have a better system? I couldn't possibly care less about the ladder itself but I don't think it's fair to be deprived of content just because I don't want to participate in an epeen competition. I mean, it'd be like if at the end of every raid tier or pvp season, blizzard removed half your gear for some arbitrary reason; and then told you on top of that, you couldn't use that character to participate in the next tier/season.
Ugh.
They have not announced any sort of ladder or BNet tiering of any sort. I would be mildly surprised (but not shocked) if they implemented something like that for D3.
I highly doubt we'll see a ladder until expansions have come and gone and Blizzard stops updating frequently (which will be years away). I believe they stated about how they will introduce new items over time and the crafting system is designed to pull items out of the economy. The ladder system wasn't for epeen. A lack of new items and nothing removing old ones from the economy meant that inflation destroyed any value to items over time removing the incentive to MF outside of using bots for the super super rare items. Ladders gave people a reason to play through the game again. Short term the plan for D3 will obviously be to keep people from stopping rather than just pull people back every year or so.
Rakai on
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The ladder system wasn't (explicitly) for epeen, no, but like Synergies it was a decent band-aid that they could do better at and hopefully (damn well better!) will. But really, shared stash alone removes the biggest problem with the game so in the end unless they give it Ubisoft DRM the game will be fine. Unless the Wizard sucks. Then they better scrap everything and start over.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
The tune thing looks boring if more than half of them just kind recolor the ability
I assume you're talking about the rune system: If they all totally changed the skill in every fashion they they'd just be back to having 100 skills with some useless. If you just want them to look way different for visual flare than I imagine they aren't doing that for a few reasons. Like you can't tell what's being casted if it looks nothing at all like the base spell etc. Or maybe they're just being lazy I guess, but so far they all look like you can tell it's runed if not totally changing it every time.
Yeah if you were paying attention to the descriptions, some of them affect enemies or regenerate spirit or do any number of other things that simply weren't illustrated by showing you the animation.
Zen, I don't think you were paying attention to the descriptions. In every case, the rune modded the given ability in a rather interesting way.
Crimson - Increases the damage of the explosion at the point of impact.
Indigo - Fires enemy-seeking missiles instead of grenades.
Obsidian - The Cluster Arrow is launched high into the air and rains down grenades.
Golden - Instead of grenades, the skill spawns shadow creatures that attack nearby enemies and leech life to the demon hunter.
Alabaster - Adds a stun effect to the grenade explosions.
Damn, I can't wait to play a Demon Hunter.
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ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I can already say from reading rune descriptions that every character I make is going to be themed somehow. There are going to be some fun ways to build characters.
Blizzard's typically good enough with their math to make all the choices viable in some form or another
Eh? Maybe after a few years of fucking with things...
Keeping in mind that they've already said "yes we're including arenas, no we don't care if someone breaks the shit out of them" (hyperbole noted; I'm sure they care but aren't going to balance it nearly the way SC2 and WoW are) so I imagine balancing for co-op/solo play ought to be an order of magnitude easier.
Edit: And I say this as someone who played a corpse explosion necromancer pre-nerf. Those were good days, and while I felt at the time that they went a bit too far in the other direction, I'll admit the other 7 players in the game were just background noise in other zones for a while there.
I'm just saying look at the general history. Diablo 2 and WoW were both loaded with useless/poorly balanced abilities/talents for years. D2 finally got some things reasonably under control around 1.10 (still not great, though) and WoW took 6 years before the talents/trees were de-fucked.
Charms are objects you find and put in your inventory to do whatever. Normally a stat boost of one kind or another. They took up space in D2, so in D3 they were going to go into a special inventory for charms only- the Talisman.
ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I liked the idea behind charms. It was another way to collect bonuses for your character and lend some customization to your stats. The problem is that in a game that's already cramped in terms of inventory... they limited your space.
I picked up D2 again (always have it installed) to play through with a Necro and I'm already at 1/2 inventory space due to charms, tomes, and my Horadric Cube (which is being used for more inventory space). They can get out of hand quickly.
Of course, I loved having an Elemental Druid in the pre-synergy days with somewhere around level 44 Armageddon, Hurricane, and Glacial Blast... but still.
Well, that's less shitty than they were in D2 (where they were absolutely the worst thing added in LoD), but yeah, that sounds pretty bland. If the point is just to cram as many slots as possible for equippable items to go into on a character, they might as well just add all sorts of ridiculous armor slots, like shinguards, elbow pads, a ring for every single finger, sunglasses, earrings, etc. I'm glad to hear that's been scrapped.
I was all excited about this game until they announced there would be no world pvp. Why do game companies insist on removing features from games when they make sequels?
EDIT: They could at least keep world pvp in for the beta like they did with wow. Just as a favor to people that actually take games seriously.
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Play with me people!
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I was all excited about this game until they announced there would be no world pvp. Why do game companies insist on removing features from games when they make sequels?
EDIT: They could at least keep world pvp in for the beta like they did with wow. Just as a favor to people that actually take games seriously.
So, because I dislike word pvp and am glad it is out, I dont take the game seriously?
Get out of here with that shit.
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ZarathustraEckUbermenschnow with stripes!Registered Userregular
I was all excited about this game until they announced there would be no world pvp. Why do game companies insist on removing features from games when they make sequels?
EDIT: They could at least keep world pvp in for the beta like they did with wow. Just as a favor to people that actually take games seriously.
An extremely small portion of the player base actually used world PvP as an element of "excitement" that someone might hunt them down. Most of the people who have whined about this change just miss the ability to gank people. That was only fun for the guy doing the ganking, and usually only because he severely outlevelled or outgeared the victim.
It was an improvement over the D1 antics, but immature nonetheless and it left a bitter taste in the mouth of those who would just be trying to play the game and have some fun.
The way you depict those in favor of world PvP as the only ones who "actually take games seriously" is laughable.
I was all excited about this game until they announced there would be no world pvp. Why do game companies insist on removing features from games when they make sequels?
EDIT: They could at least keep world pvp in for the beta like they did with wow. Just as a favor to people that actually take games seriously.
Nothing makes me happier than the chance of playing a Diablo game without people like you.
I thought the point of online games was to interact with other players, but I see how that the point is to stand next to other players and spam abilities at ai opponents. The last 10 years of online gaming makes so much more sense to me now.
Batmantis on
Play with me people!
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Co-op is often played by people who have friends. You should look into it sometime. And world PVP in Diablo 2 was retarded. It existed in 2 formats, mutually arranged duels (for which world PVP is pointless) or people using exploits and better gear to kill people before a fight had begun.
Rakai on
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PvP jammed into PvE games is the worst thing to happen to pretty much any Blizzard game. Even assuming you don't end up with the gankers who think it's leet eventually most people get pissed off sooner or later and usually sooner. It was a mistake in both Diablo's, WoW, and even though it's the entire point of SC2 basically you still get people raging (though in this case that's not a mistake, just people). They shouldn't even waste time on the arena, but they're smart to leave it at that and forget about it.
Blizzard has pretty much said they didn't want to have to deal with the herculean task of balancing the classes for PvP. They compromised by giving us arenas with the caveat that they won't give a crap about what happens in there. If you get off on that, fine. Don't tell me I can't enjoy my game ("serious" LOL) unless first I make it possible for the unscrupulous to troll people ad nauseum. That's not fun for anyone except the trolls.
If Bruce Lee showed up at a Karate dojo and roundhouse kicked a bunch of 7 year olds while yelling "LOL NOOB!", people would rightly think he was an asshole and not a hero. The mental disconnection of virtual trolls is just astonishing and only exists because no one has invented a way to punch people through the internet. (Yet.)
I thought the point of online games was to interact with other players, but I see how that the point is to stand next to other players and spam abilities at ai opponents. The last 10 years of online gaming makes so much more sense to me now.
Please, explain to me how world pvp is better than what we have in D3.
If Bruce Lee showed up at a Karate dojo and roundhouse kicked a bunch of 7 year olds while yelling "LOL NOOB!", people would rightly think he was an asshole and not a hero.
I thought the point of online games was to interact with other players, but I see how that the point is to stand next to other players and spam abilities at ai opponents. The last 10 years of online gaming makes so much more sense to me now.
I thought the point of online games was to be the biggest trolling shitbag I can be to other players, but I see how that the point is to stand next to other players and spam abilities at ai opponents. The last 10 years of online gaming makes so much more sense to me now.
I'd be vital parts of my anatomy, that I just FTFY.
Man, it was so thrilling! People would show up in a game and go hostile to everyone and get good and vulgar, and then hunt down the people that clicked hostile back... but usually they were some high level with better gear slumming so they just violated that person! Or they glitched/exploited to spring an ambush on people, thus breaking whatever cohesion had been made and splintering the party to new games.
How could we ever play without game options like that?
More seriously, if you want to flex that gigantic e-cock you think everyone should have and show off constantly, you've got the arenas. Drive the economy seeking the 'best pvp gear' while playing whatever "flavour of the month class/build/combo" happens to have an edge based on whatever skill/rune/item combination basically breaks the ever loving shit out of most opposition.
But don't try to claim that griefing (and as noted, that's most of what World PVP was for me, and several others by the looks of it) is so legitimate a pursuit that Blizzard should spend time, resources and testing efforts towards including something they've already stated they have no interest in.
In my years of playing, rarely did the person hunting others do anything but pick on lower level characters. I'm sure there's someone here who has fond memories of killing off a griefer, or banding together a group of level 20's to valiantly fight off a foe twice their level or something, but I suspect those are in the shocking minority, and do nothing to account for the rampant asshattery the mechanic did bring to the table.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
World PVP would make Diablo 3 better. Questing outside of town and hearing the skull and crossbones chime in Diablo 2 was very frightening and the adrenaline I got just from evading the hunter(s) is hardly matched in any cooperative multiplayer game I've played(alliances with other players in the room would be amazing. Everyone against Sauron). But oh noes my gold and ear!
They should just have segregated servers.
And who cares about balance in PVP? Just like the real world, some people are just better off(sarc.). Bow to them until you can retaliate with better gear or the next patch. This is gothic Diablo, damnit. Where women are staked and stuffed with items for the taking.
Hardcore dueling was really intense. I remember having a prized level 9 fighter(the legal age for hardcore duels) and fighting players in the abandoned homes in Act 1
edit: different strokes
edit2: This isn't world of warcraft, so evading PKers will probably be way easier. It'll be the unguarded, public world that would be amazing to exist in. Which there is no indication of Diablo 3 having outside of public games which I imagine you can avoid altogether anyway.
edit3: my creaking diablo memory definitely shows. you could team up with players back then IIRC
The above stated are all the problems for world pvp. The other is simple human psychology.
People do not like to lose.
The overall impact of losing in a game like this is far bigger, especially psychologically, than in say a team-based game where you can blame shitty teammates or just be among a larger group in the loss category.
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If the PvP isn't balanced what's the point? This is why Arena is a waste of time too, but unless they spend time balancing it so it's an even playing field how is that any fun? "I guess I lose because the Witch Doctor showed up, yay!". That's going to happen probably, so it being contained is a good thing.
PvP would have the same point as PvE, spamming the shit out of cool abilities while mashing hotkeys and seeing what happens. Then after awhile maybe you will have coordinated some kind of cool combo that you can work on and have fun with.
Arenas are not a pleasing idea because WoW arenas were absolute shit. I want to murder a Witch Doctor on every piece of land in Diablo 3. I want the occasional player-killed corpse on the altar of heroes after I completed my quest. I want to surprise and be surprised by the cruelties and creativities of others. I want to punish shitty team players and have another source of entertainment for any retired high-end character. I want to duel in Mephisto's Lair. I want unorthodox combat.
If you only lost an ear and no gold, then you would still have the option to leave the game and make/join a new one. I hardly doubt the battle mechanics will fill you with contempt after hacking and slashing half of a dungeon, assuming the mobs aren't tanked up with HP and filled with sand(liekWoWlolz). Having your friend's level 32 ear becomes a sentimental item and a time capsule of an earlier time when you might have had a shitty peasant's cap and a grey kite shield socketed with a chipped skull.
What the fuck thrill is there in d2 PvP other than just fighting someone else (which you can do in d3)? You get a thrill from avoiding the guy? So the most exciting part of your game is opening your inventory and using your town portal?
Seriously I've never heard of anybody or joined a game where people had hostile turned on, and weren't just right outside Act1 town fighting and stealing each others gold.
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Zen VulgarityWhat a lovely day for teaSecret British ThreadRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
I said looks boring from the video stuff
As in spell effects
From the things they showed us in the videos
So eat a bag of dicks for "RAWR YOUR OPINIONS"
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HenroidMexican kicked from Immigration ThreadCentrism is Racism :3Registered Userregular
I liked the idea behind charms. It was another way to collect bonuses for your character and lend some customization to your stats. The problem is that in a game that's already cramped in terms of inventory... they limited your space.
My problem with Charms was that their bonuses were just the same shit you can get on anything else. If charms had unique properties to them that actually made them stand-out special, even I would have bought into using them.
I'm glad they're dumping them from Diablo 3, even going as far as to dump whatever new-system they had in place. It puts too much emphasis on item finding rather than skill selection / use. The skill rune thing still reigns as the big hook to Diablo 3, for me.
They have 5 completely unnecessary extra audio and FX variations for every single skill in the game, plus probably even more variations considering some runes will have a more "powerful" visual effect based on the power of the rune.
That is a shitload of animations. I don't know what kind of magical mystery dream forest you live in that this is not good enough for you.
Posts
I guess what I"m asking is; in D2, if you made a ladder character you had access to all sorts of runewords and such that you didn't otherwise. Then at the end of the ladder season your character was moved off the ladder and you lost any access to those runewords. I found this to be incredibly shitty, and rarely made ladder characters due to it. It's shit to lose access to stuff that you earned for any reason. Are they doing this nonsense again? Or do they have a better system? I couldn't possibly care less about the ladder itself but I don't think it's fair to be deprived of content just because I don't want to participate in an epeen competition. I mean, it'd be like if at the end of every raid tier or pvp season, blizzard removed half your gear for some arbitrary reason; and then told you on top of that, you couldn't use that character to participate in the next tier/season.
Ugh.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
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I highly doubt we'll see a ladder until expansions have come and gone and Blizzard stops updating frequently (which will be years away). I believe they stated about how they will introduce new items over time and the crafting system is designed to pull items out of the economy. The ladder system wasn't for epeen. A lack of new items and nothing removing old ones from the economy meant that inflation destroyed any value to items over time removing the incentive to MF outside of using bots for the super super rare items. Ladders gave people a reason to play through the game again. Short term the plan for D3 will obviously be to keep people from stopping rather than just pull people back every year or so.
Damn, I can't wait to play a Demon Hunter.
-Z
As was I. You can't tell me that D2 and WoW weren't a mess for PvM/PvE balance for years.
I picked up D2 again (always have it installed) to play through with a Necro and I'm already at 1/2 inventory space due to charms, tomes, and my Horadric Cube (which is being used for more inventory space). They can get out of hand quickly.
Of course, I loved having an Elemental Druid in the pre-synergy days with somewhere around level 44 Armageddon, Hurricane, and Glacial Blast... but still.
-Z
EDIT: They could at least keep world pvp in for the beta like they did with wow. Just as a favor to people that actually take games seriously.
LOL: Batmantis
MTGO: Batmantis88
So, because I dislike word pvp and am glad it is out, I dont take the game seriously?
Get out of here with that shit.
An extremely small portion of the player base actually used world PvP as an element of "excitement" that someone might hunt them down. Most of the people who have whined about this change just miss the ability to gank people. That was only fun for the guy doing the ganking, and usually only because he severely outlevelled or outgeared the victim.
It was an improvement over the D1 antics, but immature nonetheless and it left a bitter taste in the mouth of those who would just be trying to play the game and have some fun.
The way you depict those in favor of world PvP as the only ones who "actually take games seriously" is laughable.
-Z
Nothing makes me happier than the chance of playing a Diablo game without people like you.
LOL: Batmantis
MTGO: Batmantis88
If Bruce Lee showed up at a Karate dojo and roundhouse kicked a bunch of 7 year olds while yelling "LOL NOOB!", people would rightly think he was an asshole and not a hero. The mental disconnection of virtual trolls is just astonishing and only exists because no one has invented a way to punch people through the internet. (Yet.)
Please, explain to me how world pvp is better than what we have in D3.
I thank you for putting that image in my head.
h4rdxk0r3
I'd be vital parts of my anatomy, that I just FTFY.
How could we ever play without game options like that?
More seriously, if you want to flex that gigantic e-cock you think everyone should have and show off constantly, you've got the arenas. Drive the economy seeking the 'best pvp gear' while playing whatever "flavour of the month class/build/combo" happens to have an edge based on whatever skill/rune/item combination basically breaks the ever loving shit out of most opposition.
But don't try to claim that griefing (and as noted, that's most of what World PVP was for me, and several others by the looks of it) is so legitimate a pursuit that Blizzard should spend time, resources and testing efforts towards including something they've already stated they have no interest in.
In my years of playing, rarely did the person hunting others do anything but pick on lower level characters. I'm sure there's someone here who has fond memories of killing off a griefer, or banding together a group of level 20's to valiantly fight off a foe twice their level or something, but I suspect those are in the shocking minority, and do nothing to account for the rampant asshattery the mechanic did bring to the table.
They should just have segregated servers.
And who cares about balance in PVP? Just like the real world, some people are just better off(sarc.). Bow to them until you can retaliate with better gear or the next patch. This is gothic Diablo, damnit. Where women are staked and stuffed with items for the taking.
Hardcore dueling was really intense. I remember having a prized level 9 fighter(the legal age for hardcore duels) and fighting players in the abandoned homes in Act 1
edit: different strokes
edit2: This isn't world of warcraft, so evading PKers will probably be way easier. It'll be the unguarded, public world that would be amazing to exist in. Which there is no indication of Diablo 3 having outside of public games which I imagine you can avoid altogether anyway.
edit3: my creaking diablo memory definitely shows. you could team up with players back then IIRC
People do not like to lose.
The overall impact of losing in a game like this is far bigger, especially psychologically, than in say a team-based game where you can blame shitty teammates or just be among a larger group in the loss category.
PSN: Bizazedo
CFN: Bizazedo (I don't think I suck, add me).
Arenas are not a pleasing idea because WoW arenas were absolute shit. I want to murder a Witch Doctor on every piece of land in Diablo 3. I want the occasional player-killed corpse on the altar of heroes after I completed my quest. I want to surprise and be surprised by the cruelties and creativities of others. I want to punish shitty team players and have another source of entertainment for any retired high-end character. I want to duel in Mephisto's Lair. I want unorthodox combat.
If you only lost an ear and no gold, then you would still have the option to leave the game and make/join a new one. I hardly doubt the battle mechanics will fill you with contempt after hacking and slashing half of a dungeon, assuming the mobs aren't tanked up with HP and filled with sand(liekWoWlolz). Having your friend's level 32 ear becomes a sentimental item and a time capsule of an earlier time when you might have had a shitty peasant's cap and a grey kite shield socketed with a chipped skull.
Seriously I've never heard of anybody or joined a game where people had hostile turned on, and weren't just right outside Act1 town fighting and stealing each others gold.
As in spell effects
From the things they showed us in the videos
So eat a bag of dicks for "RAWR YOUR OPINIONS"
My problem with Charms was that their bonuses were just the same shit you can get on anything else. If charms had unique properties to them that actually made them stand-out special, even I would have bought into using them.
I'm glad they're dumping them from Diablo 3, even going as far as to dump whatever new-system they had in place. It puts too much emphasis on item finding rather than skill selection / use. The skill rune thing still reigns as the big hook to Diablo 3, for me.
That is a shitload of animations. I don't know what kind of magical mystery dream forest you live in that this is not good enough for you.