Roommate torrents too much anime, I get slapped with lawsuit (probably)
Dr_Keenbean
Dumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered User regular
Dumb as a buttPlanet Express ShipRegistered User regular
So yeah, my fucking roommate has pretty much been torrenting shitty anime since we moved in together, it seems.
Except that the cable account is under my name. I just received notification that the copyright holders have subpoenaed my ISP to divulge my information, which means they're going to be gunning for me next. Except I didn't download this garbage and I hate anime.
I spoke with my ISP's legal department and they're going to comply with the subpoena which I understand and don't really fault them for. They're just a middleman, really.
The bottom line here is that I didn't do anything wrong and I'm going to get fucked. Obviously I'm going to seek legal counsel.
Does anyone have any experience with this or any advice? I'm losing it here.
Except that the cable account is under my name. I just received notification that the copyright holders have subpoenaed my ISP to divulge my information, which means they're going to be gunning for me next. Except I didn't download this garbage and I hate anime.
I spoke with my ISP's legal department and they're going to comply with the subpoena which I understand and don't really fault them for. They're just a middleman, really.
The bottom line here is that I didn't do anything wrong and I'm going to get fucked. Obviously I'm going to seek legal counsel.
Does anyone have any experience with this or any advice? I'm losing it here.
PSN/NNID/Steam: Dr_Keenbean
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
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http://torrentfreak.com/ip-address-not-a-person-bittorrent-case-judge-says-110503/
I think we are going to see mass shotgun lawsuits coming to an end and instead targeting torrent hosts, things like rapidshare etc.
I am not a lawyer though so take that with a grain of salt, a lawyer will definitely get you the best advice on the matter.
I sympathize with your frustration, Dr. Keenbean, but the sad fact is, even though you personally may not have done anything wrong, you are almost certainly legally responsible, according to the contract you signed with your ISP. You didn't mention who you were using, but here's what Charter says:
And here's Comcast's take:
If you do plan on fighting this, you definitely need to lawyer up, because "it wasn't me, it was my roommate" will not be viewed as a valid defense. In the meantime, though, do what you can to minimize the damage. It may seem a bit like closing the barn door after the horses are gone, but you need to lock your internet down and prevent your roommate from using it. If he wants to download shit, he can get his own internet connection, in his own name.
You'll probably also want to think about how close you are to this roommate, because if you end up having to pay for his piracy, your lawyer might suggest that you file a civil suit against him to recoup your losses. (This is, of course, assuming that he doesn't do the right thing and just offer to pay it, which he won't).
Good luck dealing with this shit - I hope the lesson doesn't end up costing you too much.
Also, make sure they HAVE the copyright in the first place. There have been cases where companies have sued for copyright infringement and turns out - they did even own the copyright in the first place.
If someone else's actions are causing you to be singled our for civil or criminal penalties, they need to take the blame ASAP
I'd compare this to a red light camera picture - if your friend was borrowing your car, and ran a red, they must pay the ticket, etc.
You'll want to make sure your roomy doesn't delete the evidence, however. If you have no proof, then you'll be found culpable as the account owner...
This is what I came here to tell you. If you Lawyer up, make sure he/she knows about this (he/she probably does or will). The case is a bit different, but it's still a nice precedent to have under your belt.
I should have a talk with him.
Thank you very much for this guys, I will bring this to the attention of my future lawyer if he/she isn't aware of it already.
I disconnected all his shit and ran the coax cable directly up in to my room. My modem and router are now sitting on my desk. I physically disconnect the modem and take it with me when I go out (my door doesn't lock) because he's just that much of an immature shut-in.
And you better be damn sure he'll be paying my lawyer fees. What really sucks though is that we're co-workers to. We literally share an office and face each other all day. I've taken the next few days off to hopefully let the murder impulse die down.
I should at that this fucker apparently has been stealing everything. Games, movies, tv shows. He even steals the fucking Daily Show and you can watch that shit FOR FREE!
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
If the law firm DOES start calling daily, ask them to stop and only communicate with you via regular old mail. If you do that, send a registered letter to their offices stating the same. That way anything they say to you is in writing and not something a lawyer can dismiss.
Of course they can then turn around and go after your roommate, but it's a problem of his own creation.
Is it wrong that I want this? He needs an awakening.
I let him swim in my pool and he shit in it.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Just some positive words.
I'll also point out that downloading from torrent files is not, generally, the act that triggers something like this. Generally, it's those who let the files seed that get targeted.
I am well aware of this. I had been wondering why I kept getting kicked from game servers due to my ping being too high all the time.
Well, it was because some shithead was uploading countless amounts of cartoons.
Ever since I completely severed him from my internet connection this shit be fast. Like I seriously did not even know I was even capable of downloading stuff at 2MB/sec.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
Lets say your roommate steals a car then parks it in your driveway. The cops see it, see your name on the lease (his is not on the lease, they don't even know he exists), assume you stole it, and arrest you. Would you have any qualms about point in the cops in the right direction?
It's his own mess, don't let him hide behind you.
This would be great advice if the OP hadn't (almost certainly) signed a legally binding contract in which he agreed to accept full responsibility for any actions performed under his account. And no, "I didn't know he was doing it" is not a valid defense in this situation.
By all means, go after the roommate, because he should be taking the blame for this. But realize that as far as the law is concerned, it's your name on the account, and that's what matters.
He has a contract with his ISP. His ISP is not threatening to sue him. His ISP is saying they are passing on his info to a content owner. If he's sued it will be by a content owner under copyright law, not under his contract with his ISP.
As it stands now, I only know that my ISP plans to divulge my information. Whether or not the copyright holder actually wants my ass specifically is still unknown. There's several other IPs listed in the copy of the subpoena I received.
I really have no way of knowing how much he uploaded.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
yeah, but it's not like they could get another cable connection right? I mean if cable is already running to your house, they don't just run another one do they? Don't they just split it?
or am I completely wrong about cable?
(I know in my Dads house, they just split the cable so it could go to different rooms, but there was only one account)
If I'm correct (which I probably am), you or your roommate won't be liable for any damages. These lawsuits are considered to be a type of legal extortion and based on what this judge says, I doubt you'll have to pay a dime.
Each cable account is associated with a specific IP address. When my fiance and I are online at the same time, we have the same IP address. The person who lives next door has a different IP address, even though he uses the same ISP, and even though he uses 99% of the same physical cable as we do.
I'd like to clarify the process of copyright infringement action here, because I don't think oldsak really understands how the system works.
Copyright Holder notices that someone at the IP address 111.222.1.2 keeps downloading and seeding material they own through bittorrent. CH keeps a record of these copyright violations, and once they consider it to be worth their time to do something about it, they look up the IP address 111.222.1.2 to see who owns it.
They discover that 111.222.1.2 is owned by the East Pirateville Local ISP. What usually happens next is that they send EPLISP a polite letter, which says "Dear sirs, one of your subscribers at IP address 111.222.1.2 is stealing our things, please tell them to stop." EPLISP, in turn, checks their private company records to see which account was assigned that IP address. It turns out to be Johnny Animu, so they send him a letter saying "Dear Johnny, we've been informed that you may be violating copyright, stop that shit boy." Then, in a perfect world, Johnny knocks it off, and nothing more is done.
If, however, Johnny continues being a retard, or if CH decided to skip the "asking nicely" step, what happens next is that CH goes to a judge, shows him the detailed logs of copyright violations, and asks for a subpoena to discover the identity of 111.222.1.2 so they can sue his ass for copyright infringement. The judge may be a rebel and say "Hell no, an IP address ain't a person, you ain't got shit for evidence, fuck off." Or, they may grant the subpoena.
CH then hands the subpoena to EPLISP, and says "Tell us who 111.222.1.2 is so we can sue his ass." EPLISP says "Oh god please don't hurt us, 111.222.1.2 is Johnny Animu, here's his phone number and address."
CH now has two pieces of information: they know that someone from IP address 111.222.1.2 violated their copyright, and they know that the IP address 111.222.1.2 was assigned to Johnny Animu. Do they know that Johnny Animu himself was the one who seeded that torrent? No, but in the eyes of the law, they don't fuckin' need to, because Johnny Animu signed a legally-binding contract with his ISP in which he agreed to be held legally responsible for all traffic to and from his unique IP address.
It doesn't matter if his roommate did it. It doesn't matter if his friend did it. And it doesn't matter that CH is the one suing him, not his ISP. What matters is that it was his account.
Now, a good lawyer is obviously going to make a huge difference in how this all pans out. So will the roommate, for that matter - if he steps forward and says "No, I'm Spartacus, I was the one who downloaded everything, I'm responsible," then CH will be perfectly happy to sue him directly instead. Or, a good lawyer could sit down with CH's lawyers and say "Hey, we both know that if this goes to court, you're going to get your ass beat down in public opinion, and you might not even win the case, so how about we settle this for a thousand bucks?" But barring any such legal intervention, this is the OP's mess to deal with, and telling him otherwise is very bad advice.
First, and foremost, read this:
https://www.eff.org/pages/frequently-asked-questions-subpoena-targets
This link specifically mentions a case with 'The Expendables' torrenting controversy, not your anime addicted room mate, but the advice is still the same. In order of shit you need to do, I'd wager that:
1) Don't ignore this. Failure to show up in court could render a default judgement against you.A default judgment may be legally enforceable, and could be turned over to a debt collection agency or otherwise be used to collect money from you. It can also harm your credit rating.
2) Don't directly contact the persons suing you. Don't say shit to them. Don't do anything that could give them your name or address. The ISP may do it eventually, but don't do it for them.
3) Get a lawyer. Here's a link to help you find lawyers who can help you with your options, for whatever state you live in: https://www.eff.org/issues/file-sharing/subpoena-defense
If you're fast about this, and speed is key here, your lawyer could file a motion to quash the subpeona, and there's a chance this goes away. It may not be your fault, but you still have the legal target on your back. Good luck.
Right now, you have merely been threatened. Don't give credence to those threats.
*edit* The EFF (above) is providing answers to questions regarding ISP subpoenas. What they don't address is the recent change in Doe and ISP subpoenas lawsuits, making legal representation unnecessary.
Here is another example.
Not consult a forum.
It's not a secret that these cases are complex. You'd be stupid to use any answer given to you here other than to consult an attorney who actually knows this field.
A good lawyer might make a good case against the whole notion of you being responsible for the actions of your roommate.
So yes it's a legally binding contract, but it's only legally binding as far his ISP is concerned. Only the parties to a contract can enforce the terms of the contract. Basically the content owner gets no benefits from the contract. His agreement to be responsible for activity on his connection means that the ISP can hold him responsible (and terminate services), but it does not mean that anybody else can.
The fact that he agreed to be responsible for what happens on his account in his contract with his ISP means didly squat as far as the content owner and his potential copyright claims.
Do not pay a settlement without first consulting an attorney. These cases are basically mass-filed based on evidence that's dubious at best.
Basically, you have no reason to cooperate. Your roommate is a dick, the people filing the lawsuit are very likely dicks, and you are in the unfortunate position of having to navigate your way out of a sticky mess. Keep a cool head, and you'll be fine.
Much less verbose than what I was getting at, but yeah, this. Very much this.
He could probably third party his roommate if he was actually sued. That's worth keeping in mind.
Tell your roommate to get his own internet service and hope for the best.
Rigorous Scholarship
This is pretty much what I'm going with. All that has happened to me is that I have been informed by my ISP that the copyright holder has requested the information of several different IPs, one of which was assigned to me, and that they intend to comply with the request.
No legal action has been taken against me yet so getting a lawyer at this point could just be wasting my money. If, once the ISP relinquishes my information, the copyright holder comes after me, I intend to seek legal counsel immediately. Seeking a lawyer before anything happens would likely just result in me losing a lot of money I don't have.
I'm not making a serious move until they do.
3DS: 1650-8480-6786
Switch: SW-0653-8208-4705
OP if you do get served, one thing to keep in mind is that while the EFF would almost certainly not take your case, they do maintain a list of attorneys who are passionate about these types of issues and would almost certainly be a better referral than some other source, and probably much more competent in copyright law as well, so it might be worth contacting them and asking for a local referral if it came to that.
I really don't think you have anything to be worried about. Your claim that the roommate is to blame, in this case, is a valid argument. This is one of the reasons why more judges are siding in favor of the defendants.
Slider, please read. No one is suing the OP. No one HAS sued the OP, and no suit has been filed to anyone's knowledge as yet. Information has been requested and that's all. Keep your pants on for everyone's sake, and don't ever ask for information like "who is suing you" in this forum.