My hunter is extremely lucky with rare spawns I guess. In the span of two days I managed to have her tame Jadefang, Ghostcrawler, Nuramoc, and Terropene.
Apparenlty Blizzard hotfixed HS and reduced its base heal and coefficent by 20%. Not sure if this on live or just on the PTR.
Apparently this is a big pvp nerf because you can dispel TW so you you can't reliable 1.7 sec GHW casts. Not sure how this affects pve issues, as I never use it except in emergencies.
Confirmed for me, Call to Arms is the worst thing ever.
I'm trying to gear up an alt in heroics and normals, and here's what I've gotten today:
- An in progress Deadmines where the tank had never been there, and had 130k hitpoints, half DPS gear, some of which was 325 greens. The healer Holydin had 70k mana and went OOM halfway through Foe Reaper. Never used Holy Light once, Judged a total of three times.
- An in progress Lost City where the tank DK had (again) very low hitpoints, and on top of that was dual-wielding. And pointed the breath attacks that the plaguebringers used onto the group every time.
- A tank that stood in green slime in Throne of the Tides when I was healing and insisted that it was my fault that he died.
- A tank that stood in the shadow puddles on Rajh and complained that he wasn't getting enough heals.
Zuloics don't help, either. I regularly get DPS that can't pull 10k, because all the GOOD players are doing ZA and ZG. Fuck, most of the people I get can't even break 8k.
I'm so frustrated right now that I considered canceling my account earlier. Raids aren't really doing it for me anymore, and if THIS is the kind of crap I'm going to have to put up with when I'm not playing on my main, then fuck it. I have better things to do than spend 2 hours in a fucking heroic.
I can't believe it, but I would rather take the 25-30 minute wait for a Heroic queue pre-4.1 over what it is now.
AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
Yeah, breaking them out as a second tier of heroics instead of doing what happened in Wrath (where the harder heroics simply didn't come up for you as a random if you didn't have the gear) sounds like a very very stupid decision to me.
Flying is not detrimental to making the leveling course of 1 to 60 expedient. You can say flying is useless to that content, but it's also a moot point altogether to make.
Maybe if you completely ignore the context of the original conversation, sure.
Confirmed for me, Call to Arms is the worst thing ever.
I'm trying to gear up an alt in heroics and normals, and here's what I've gotten today:
- An in progress Deadmines where the tank had never been there, and had 130k hitpoints, half DPS gear, some of which was 325 greens. The healer Holydin had 70k mana and went OOM halfway through Foe Reaper. Never used Holy Light once, Judged a total of three times.
- An in progress Lost City where the tank DK had (again) very low hitpoints, and on top of that was dual-wielding. And pointed the breath attacks that the plaguebringers used onto the group every time.
- A tank that stood in green slime in Throne of the Tides when I was healing and insisted that it was my fault that he died.
- A tank that stood in the shadow puddles on Rajh and complained that he wasn't getting enough heals.
Zuloics don't help, either. I regularly get DPS that can't pull 10k, because all the GOOD players are doing ZA and ZG. Fuck, most of the people I get can't even break 8k.
I'm so frustrated right now that I considered canceling my account earlier. Raids aren't really doing it for me anymore, and if THIS is the kind of crap I'm going to have to put up with when I'm not playing on my main, then fuck it. I have better things to do than spend 2 hours in a fucking heroic.
I can't believe it, but I would rather take the 25-30 minute wait for a Heroic queue pre-4.1 over what it is now.
Don't be silly, its not just the best players doing za/zg now, it's also those players who really need to be in normal heroics who ninja'ed enough 346 gear from heroics to fake a GS that lets them queue.
For the annals of silly business in heroic pugs, I just had the most ridiculous thing happen. I'm tanking for a 3-man guild group and another pug in ZA. The first three bosses go down beautifully, even if the dps is overall a little underwhelming. On the way to lynx, the pug DPS accidentally pulls a pat the rest of us skipped, which wipes us. We weren't going to make a 4th timer anyway, but one of the guildies loses his mind and insists we kick the guy.
I vote against because it's not really a big thing. The guildie progressively gets angrier as I keep pulling trash, finally saying in chat, "Stop healing. Fuck you." The guildies all leave after wiping on purpose, the mage goes offline, I requeue alone, and four nice people who were much better players than what I had in the first place come in to finish. The stupid tank shoulders finally drop for me, and all is right with the world.
And then it occurs to me, the rewards from the first three timers were never looted. I got a shard, 45 gold from the eagle boss bag, and the 2H weapon for my offspec. I really hope the rage-quitting guildies enjoyed their time in the queue.
Confirmed for me, Call to Arms is the worst thing ever.
I'm trying to gear up an alt in heroics and normals, and here's what I've gotten today:
- An in progress Deadmines where the tank had never been there, and had 130k hitpoints, half DPS gear, some of which was 325 greens. The healer Holydin had 70k mana and went OOM halfway through Foe Reaper. Never used Holy Light once, Judged a total of three times.
- An in progress Lost City where the tank DK had (again) very low hitpoints, and on top of that was dual-wielding. And pointed the breath attacks that the plaguebringers used onto the group every time.
- A tank that stood in green slime in Throne of the Tides when I was healing and insisted that it was my fault that he died.
- A tank that stood in the shadow puddles on Rajh and complained that he wasn't getting enough heals.
Zuloics don't help, either. I regularly get DPS that can't pull 10k, because all the GOOD players are doing ZA and ZG. Fuck, most of the people I get can't even break 8k.
I'm so frustrated right now that I considered canceling my account earlier. Raids aren't really doing it for me anymore, and if THIS is the kind of crap I'm going to have to put up with when I'm not playing on my main, then fuck it. I have better things to do than spend 2 hours in a fucking heroic.
I can't believe it, but I would rather take the 25-30 minute wait for a Heroic queue pre-4.1 over what it is now.
Don't be silly, its not just the best players doing za/zg now, it's also those players who really need to be in normal heroics who ninja'ed enough 346 gear from heroics to fake a GS that lets them queue.
I didn't say that the only players playing ZA/ZG were good. I said that if you ARE a good DPS, you're doing ZA/ZG.
There are exceptions, but they are just that: exceptions. For every good DPS ('good' herein defined as someone that can pull 10k in a normal heroic - ie. pull their weight) there are twenty others that are just liabilities.
Confirmed for me, Call to Arms is the worst thing ever.
I'm trying to gear up an alt in heroics and normals, and here's what I've gotten today:
- An in progress Deadmines where the tank had never been there, and had 130k hitpoints, half DPS gear, some of which was 325 greens. The healer Holydin had 70k mana and went OOM halfway through Foe Reaper. Never used Holy Light once, Judged a total of three times.
- An in progress Lost City where the tank DK had (again) very low hitpoints, and on top of that was dual-wielding. And pointed the breath attacks that the plaguebringers used onto the group every time.
- A tank that stood in green slime in Throne of the Tides when I was healing and insisted that it was my fault that he died.
- A tank that stood in the shadow puddles on Rajh and complained that he wasn't getting enough heals.
Zuloics don't help, either. I regularly get DPS that can't pull 10k, because all the GOOD players are doing ZA and ZG. Fuck, most of the people I get can't even break 8k.
I'm so frustrated right now that I considered canceling my account earlier. Raids aren't really doing it for me anymore, and if THIS is the kind of crap I'm going to have to put up with when I'm not playing on my main, then fuck it. I have better things to do than spend 2 hours in a fucking heroic.
I can't believe it, but I would rather take the 25-30 minute wait for a Heroic queue pre-4.1 over what it is now.
Don't be silly, its not just the best players doing za/zg now, it's also those players who really need to be in normal heroics who ninja'ed enough 346 gear from heroics to fake a GS that lets them queue.
You can do heroics with that output you just cant chain pull and/or not CC. I have gotten into heroics on my alts like that. The ones that succeed are the ones that CC and Focus which people think they dont have to do anymore all the time. I am still kind of weary about continuing to gear up my priest as healy spec because of that fact. People are soo quick to blame the healer and boot them these days.
-The last heroic I did on my priest was Tolvir and the tank just stood there. Didnt get out of the earthquakes, no cc and didnt re pickup mobs that deagroed off of him.
-One of the heroics prior I got a group in Tolvir as well that stood in the beams and didnt kill adds on the second to last boss. I got booted from that group because my "heals were not there"... well yeah my heals arent there if I go OOM in the P1 from people standing in the damn fire. Got into another Tolvir in minutes and we just blasted through it because people knew what they were doing and didnt play like morons.
Jubal77 on
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
For every good DPS ('good' herein defined as someone that can pull 10k in a normal heroic - ie. pull their weight) there are twenty others that are just liabilities.
Sure. But that was true before ZA/ZG, before CtA.
TBH, for me the CtA has worked as Blizz pretty much intended. My main is a 360 ilvl Prot Paladin that before CtA, I only played in Raids or took to do Archaeology.
Now with CtA, I have a reason to go back into the 346 Heroics. I don't dare try PuG ZA/ZG, because I know the kind of torture that awaits me there, and there's nothing I need from there (more maelstroms aside). So I pug the regular Heroics, we breeze through them, and my groups are pretty happy.
For every good DPS ('good' herein defined as someone that can pull 10k in a normal heroic - ie. pull their weight) there are twenty others that are just liabilities.
Sure. But that was true before ZA/ZG, before CtA.
No, it wasn't. While there were always bad players, they were not nearly as concentrated in a single bracket the way they are now.
Pre 4.1, you generally got a mixed back in every heroic. A couple people that had their shit together, and usually 1 or 2 bad DPS.
Now in T1 heroics, it's almost UNIVERSALLY terribads. Guys who don't have the gear to even be in heroics legitimately, guys who don't know how to gear, guys who couldn't hack it in ZA/ZG because they fail on mechanics, etc. etc.
With the addition of the Zul's, it seems like normals have been become exceptionally bad. I made the mistake of leveling my Druid in Herbalism spec, so I'm in mostly bad quest greens as a result of not finishing zones.... So off to normals for me! It's fun being the only one interrupting as a Resto Druid swapping into cat form to Skull Bash. Are the Bear/Cat interrupts on separate cooldowns? Maybe I can do their job even better!
Yeah, breaking them out as a second tier of heroics instead of doing what happened in Wrath (where the harder heroics simply didn't come up for you as a random if you didn't have the gear) sounds like a very very stupid decision to me.
I don't think I'm going to attract many adherents on this one, but I think the talent drain in the lower tier heroics is a good thing.
It annoys me when people don't cc, pull for the tank, don't stop to loot and generally chant "gogogo!" I'd rather go slowly with a group that's doing it right, even if that's because they'll die if they don't. I'd rather have a group that will talk about their strategy than one which assumes everyone already knows what to do. I'd rather have good, controlable pulls than speed. I'd rather the healer have a bit of a cushion to deal with emergencies than have him popping regen cds every time they're up.
The heroics are all finishable with 329 gear. It just means you can't blast through them and ignore the mechanics of the fights. And I consider that a good thing.
Well, right. Anyone who's experienced (read: geared) is running zulroics. So anybody running regulars is an undergeared alt or an undergeared person who's never seen it before.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
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ArrynAsk not the InnkeeperFor destiny is thy name!Registered Userregular
For every good DPS ('good' herein defined as someone that can pull 10k in a normal heroic - ie. pull their weight) there are twenty others that are just liabilities.
Sure. But that was true before ZA/ZG, before CtA.
No, it wasn't. While there were always bad players, they were not nearly as concentrated in a single bracket the way they are now.
Pre 4.1, you generally got a mixed back in every heroic. A couple people that had their shit together, and usually 1 or 2 bad DPS.
Now in T1 heroics, it's almost UNIVERSALLY terribads. Guys who don't have the gear to even be in heroics legitimately, guys who don't know how to gear, guys who couldn't hack it in ZA/ZG because they fail on mechanics, etc. etc.
I think you're overstating the case and exaggerating a bit here. At the very least, this hasn't been my experience. In the last week, I can think of maybe one player that really stands out in my mind as having been really horrible.
I'm not saying these people aren't out there, because we all know they are. But you're making it sound like T1 Heroics are impossible to complete now, because ZA/ZG/CtA came to town. And I'm simply saying, I've had as many bad PuG experiences since the patch, as I had before.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
Well, right. Anyone who's experienced (read: geared) is running zulroics. So anybody running regulars is an undergeared alt or an undergeared person who's never seen it before.
Or overgeared tanks wanting to get their satchels without facing the horrors of pugging ZA/ZG.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
I really feel like singleplayer games might be more your speed.
Seriously though, running an instance quickly is one thing. Forcing your playstyle on other people and possibly forcing a new healer to have a near heart attack keeping up with you is being an asshole. The attitude you're displaying here is the epitome of goosery.
If you don't want to deal with the fact that not everyone is on your level, that people have different degrees of experience and some people just might be getting into heroics, don't pug. Seriously.
With the addition of the Zul's, it seems like normals have been become exceptionally bad. I made the mistake of leveling my Druid in Herbalism spec, so I'm in mostly bad quest greens as a result of not finishing zones.... So off to normals for me! It's fun being the only one interrupting as a Resto Druid swapping into cat form to Skull Bash. Are the Bear/Cat interrupts on separate cooldowns? Maybe I can do their job even better!
Cat/Bear interrupts are on the same cooldown, so only one per minute! Although I don't recall if Bash still interrupts stun-immune mobs or not, so you might be able to get another one in while skull bash is on cooldown.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
There's no joy for me in struggling to keep alive a tank who has no consideration for technique. Why should I suffer so you can be happy?
I don't see any way that both of us could be in the same group and enjoy the run, but there's no way to objectively pick one of us as "right."
So I'm still happy with how the zulroics turned out. Send me more mediocre players. I'm more than happy to explain the fights to them and mark things. And as much as it may irk you, you need me because those noobs will grow up to be the "gogogo!" players that you're looking for.
Confirmed for me, Call to Arms is the worst thing ever.
[stuff including zulroic talk]
See, that's just the thing. 4.1 had two major changes to heroics: CtA and the introduction of a new tier. You can't necessarily blame one independent variable for a change in the outcome when there were changes to at least two independent variables. There's also just the fact that a new patch released, which tends to bring back some people who weren't playing, and the fact that Cataclysm is 5 months old and thus more people might be trying out (tank) alts than there were a couple months ago.
There's just far too much at play here to be able to make a call like "my heroic runs are awful now because of CtA" already.
Wiping on Al'akir at 2% all night and being the last guy alive on almost every try is getting really old. I know what's wrong but telling people not to go too far up or too far down and to move from cloud quicker is not helping at all. After the 3rd time I have to assume people are not bloody listening to what is said and the advice we give. We ace phase 1 and 2 then get crappy phase 3 all night.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
If you rush people who can't keep up (due to having "just starting heroic" level gear) you're going to die and the group is going to wipe and multiple wipes make the run longer. It's super awesome that you have heroic epic gear, but unless you can solo a heroic you're going to have to accomodate your party. If your party has the gear to be able to chain pull mobs with no CC and smash through the dungeon in a hurry, that's pretty great for you. But, if the healer needs to stop to mana up every few pulls and you keep insisting on pulling you're going to wipe and it's going to be a horrible experience for everyone involved.
Besides, how much time does it really take to mark a pull for CC, or at least mark targets for kill priority? It's never really taken me very long to mark targets and pull conservatively. I would wager it only adds a few minutes, at most, to a run.
If you have your marks on your numberpad then marking is super-quick and painless. You don't even need a mod to do that, the binds are in the default Keybinding menu.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
I really feel like singleplayer games might be more your speed.
Seriously though, running an instance quickly is one thing. Forcing your playstyle on other people and possibly forcing a new healer to have a near heart attack keeping up with you is being an asshole. The attitude you're displaying here is the epitome of goosery.
If you don't want to deal with the fact that not everyone is on your level, that people have different degrees of experience and some people just might be getting into heroics, don't pug. Seriously.
Yet you want the slow players playstyle to be forced onto him? Sure the healer may have a heart attack because of a crazy string of pulls, but I might die of old age by the time the damn instance is over with.
You tell him to take others feelings into consideration, but then take zero consideration for his feelings on the subject.
Justinsane sounds like the super geared egotistical and condescending tank I usually get kicked out of the group in favor of the guy with some blues on who is playing an MMO to actually play with other people.
Justinsane sounds like the super geared egotistical and condescending tank I usually get kicked out of the group in favor of the guy with some blues on who is playing an MMO to actually play with other people.
He sounds to me like he way overgears the content and can EASILY faceroll it, so why the hell shouldnt he?
Justinsane sounds like the super geared egotistical and condescending tank I usually get kicked out of the group in favor of the guy with some blues on who is playing an MMO to actually play with other people.
He sounds to me like he way overgears the content and can EASILY faceroll it, so why the hell shouldnt he?
Because its a group game and if waiting for someone to loot or for a healer to drink is too burdensome then you're better off playing a game with single player.
You tell him to take others feelings into consideration, but then take zero consideration for his feelings on the subject.
Probably because he's coming at the problem from the standpoint of "fuck you guys for trying to slow me down, I'll do what I want." It's hard to be sympathetic.
Wiping on Al'akir at 2% all night and being the last guy alive on almost every try is getting really old. I know what's wrong but telling people not to go too far up or too far down and to move from cloud quicker is not helping at all. After the 3rd time I have to assume people are not bloody listening to what is said and the advice we give. We ace phase 1 and 2 then get crappy phase 3 all night.
You tell him to take others feelings into consideration, but then take zero consideration for his feelings on the subject.
Probably because he's coming at the problem from the standpoint of "fuck you guys for trying to slow me down, I'll do what I want." It's hard to be sympathetic.
while you are coming from the standpoint of "fuck you tank, you are going too fast," hard to be sympathetic
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I'd hate you more except I got my turtle in a few hours of that patch going live.
I do feel bad for our Bear tank though; He fished up an entire expansion's (not exaggerating) worth of Fish Feasts for it for the Salty title.
You still need the fishing contest which is so unfair because of the time it happens and people
Yeah but were any of them shiny?
Apparently this is a big pvp nerf because you can dispel TW so you you can't reliable 1.7 sec GHW casts. Not sure how this affects pve issues, as I never use it except in emergencies.
Oh, so you don't. He did want the nerd points though, I managed to pass him for like a week.
I'm trying to gear up an alt in heroics and normals, and here's what I've gotten today:
- An in progress Deadmines where the tank had never been there, and had 130k hitpoints, half DPS gear, some of which was 325 greens. The healer Holydin had 70k mana and went OOM halfway through Foe Reaper. Never used Holy Light once, Judged a total of three times.
- An in progress Lost City where the tank DK had (again) very low hitpoints, and on top of that was dual-wielding. And pointed the breath attacks that the plaguebringers used onto the group every time.
- A tank that stood in green slime in Throne of the Tides when I was healing and insisted that it was my fault that he died.
- A tank that stood in the shadow puddles on Rajh and complained that he wasn't getting enough heals.
Zuloics don't help, either. I regularly get DPS that can't pull 10k, because all the GOOD players are doing ZA and ZG. Fuck, most of the people I get can't even break 8k.
I'm so frustrated right now that I considered canceling my account earlier. Raids aren't really doing it for me anymore, and if THIS is the kind of crap I'm going to have to put up with when I'm not playing on my main, then fuck it. I have better things to do than spend 2 hours in a fucking heroic.
I can't believe it, but I would rather take the 25-30 minute wait for a Heroic queue pre-4.1 over what it is now.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
It takes alot of gear to heal stupid. Which isn't fair since you need to run those instances for the gear
Don't be silly, its not just the best players doing za/zg now, it's also those players who really need to be in normal heroics who ninja'ed enough 346 gear from heroics to fake a GS that lets them queue.
I vote against because it's not really a big thing. The guildie progressively gets angrier as I keep pulling trash, finally saying in chat, "Stop healing. Fuck you." The guildies all leave after wiping on purpose, the mage goes offline, I requeue alone, and four nice people who were much better players than what I had in the first place come in to finish. The stupid tank shoulders finally drop for me, and all is right with the world.
And then it occurs to me, the rewards from the first three timers were never looted. I got a shard, 45 gold from the eagle boss bag, and the 2H weapon for my offspec. I really hope the rage-quitting guildies enjoyed their time in the queue.
I didn't say that the only players playing ZA/ZG were good. I said that if you ARE a good DPS, you're doing ZA/ZG.
There are exceptions, but they are just that: exceptions. For every good DPS ('good' herein defined as someone that can pull 10k in a normal heroic - ie. pull their weight) there are twenty others that are just liabilities.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
You can do heroics with that output you just cant chain pull and/or not CC. I have gotten into heroics on my alts like that. The ones that succeed are the ones that CC and Focus which people think they dont have to do anymore all the time. I am still kind of weary about continuing to gear up my priest as healy spec because of that fact. People are soo quick to blame the healer and boot them these days.
-The last heroic I did on my priest was Tolvir and the tank just stood there. Didnt get out of the earthquakes, no cc and didnt re pickup mobs that deagroed off of him.
-One of the heroics prior I got a group in Tolvir as well that stood in the beams and didnt kill adds on the second to last boss. I got booted from that group because my "heals were not there"... well yeah my heals arent there if I go OOM in the P1 from people standing in the damn fire. Got into another Tolvir in minutes and we just blasted through it because people knew what they were doing and didnt play like morons.
Sure. But that was true before ZA/ZG, before CtA.
TBH, for me the CtA has worked as Blizz pretty much intended. My main is a 360 ilvl Prot Paladin that before CtA, I only played in Raids or took to do Archaeology.
Now with CtA, I have a reason to go back into the 346 Heroics. I don't dare try PuG ZA/ZG, because I know the kind of torture that awaits me there, and there's nothing I need from there (more maelstroms aside). So I pug the regular Heroics, we breeze through them, and my groups are pretty happy.
I get why some people want to be challenged with content, but me? I just want to have fun without frustration.
No, it wasn't. While there were always bad players, they were not nearly as concentrated in a single bracket the way they are now.
Pre 4.1, you generally got a mixed back in every heroic. A couple people that had their shit together, and usually 1 or 2 bad DPS.
Now in T1 heroics, it's almost UNIVERSALLY terribads. Guys who don't have the gear to even be in heroics legitimately, guys who don't know how to gear, guys who couldn't hack it in ZA/ZG because they fail on mechanics, etc. etc.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I don't think I'm going to attract many adherents on this one, but I think the talent drain in the lower tier heroics is a good thing.
It annoys me when people don't cc, pull for the tank, don't stop to loot and generally chant "gogogo!" I'd rather go slowly with a group that's doing it right, even if that's because they'll die if they don't. I'd rather have a group that will talk about their strategy than one which assumes everyone already knows what to do. I'd rather have good, controlable pulls than speed. I'd rather the healer have a bit of a cushion to deal with emergencies than have him popping regen cds every time they're up.
The heroics are all finishable with 329 gear. It just means you can't blast through them and ignore the mechanics of the fights. And I consider that a good thing.
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Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I think you're overstating the case and exaggerating a bit here. At the very least, this hasn't been my experience. In the last week, I can think of maybe one player that really stands out in my mind as having been really horrible.
I'm not saying these people aren't out there, because we all know they are. But you're making it sound like T1 Heroics are impossible to complete now, because ZA/ZG/CtA came to town. And I'm simply saying, I've had as many bad PuG experiences since the patch, as I had before.
This is May. We're 6 months into the product cycle. At this point, I should be able to blast my way through the beginner heroics.
No not really. I don't think we ever should overgear/crush heroics like that.
Look at it this way; you know how you feel when you think "Man, this boss is taking forever to die" and look at the dps meter and see three numbers under 7k? Or when you keep pulling aggro off the tank, or waiting for the healer to drink?
I feel that same way when the tank has pulled the next group before I've finished looting; or, if I'm tanking, when the dps "helps" by pulling the next group while the one we're working on is still up. Every time a tank walks away from a pull with a mob limping along behind him it makes me reconsider my subscription.
I don't see any realistic way to reconcile these play styles but I think the decisions regarding zulroics tilted things in my direction so I'm happy with it.
0431-6094-6446-7088
Or overgeared tanks wanting to get their satchels without facing the horrors of pugging ZA/ZG.
Not that I know anybody who'd do that >.>
I don't know that feeling as I don't run a group wide dps meter. I run a personal one and that's it.
But as a tank, I don't give a fuck about your looting/skinning. I'm pulling the next set of shit now. I consistently pull the next group before the last one has even hit the ground. And you know why? Because I fucking earned the gear to do that. Why should I slog slowly through shit designed for gear levels 4 tiers below mine? There's no joy in acting like I'm still in quest greens and blues when I'm in heroic epics. What was the point of earning the gear then?
I really feel like singleplayer games might be more your speed.
Seriously though, running an instance quickly is one thing. Forcing your playstyle on other people and possibly forcing a new healer to have a near heart attack keeping up with you is being an asshole. The attitude you're displaying here is the epitome of goosery.
If you don't want to deal with the fact that not everyone is on your level, that people have different degrees of experience and some people just might be getting into heroics, don't pug. Seriously.
There's no joy for me in struggling to keep alive a tank who has no consideration for technique. Why should I suffer so you can be happy?
I don't see any way that both of us could be in the same group and enjoy the run, but there's no way to objectively pick one of us as "right."
So I'm still happy with how the zulroics turned out. Send me more mediocre players. I'm more than happy to explain the fights to them and mark things. And as much as it may irk you, you need me because those noobs will grow up to be the "gogogo!" players that you're looking for.
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There's just far too much at play here to be able to make a call like "my heroic runs are awful now because of CtA" already.
If you rush people who can't keep up (due to having "just starting heroic" level gear) you're going to die and the group is going to wipe and multiple wipes make the run longer. It's super awesome that you have heroic epic gear, but unless you can solo a heroic you're going to have to accomodate your party. If your party has the gear to be able to chain pull mobs with no CC and smash through the dungeon in a hurry, that's pretty great for you. But, if the healer needs to stop to mana up every few pulls and you keep insisting on pulling you're going to wipe and it's going to be a horrible experience for everyone involved.
Besides, how much time does it really take to mark a pull for CC, or at least mark targets for kill priority? It's never really taken me very long to mark targets and pull conservatively. I would wager it only adds a few minutes, at most, to a run.
Yet you want the slow players playstyle to be forced onto him? Sure the healer may have a heart attack because of a crazy string of pulls, but I might die of old age by the time the damn instance is over with.
You tell him to take others feelings into consideration, but then take zero consideration for his feelings on the subject.
He sounds to me like he way overgears the content and can EASILY faceroll it, so why the hell shouldnt he?
Because its a group game and if waiting for someone to loot or for a healer to drink is too burdensome then you're better off playing a game with single player.
Probably because he's coming at the problem from the standpoint of "fuck you guys for trying to slow me down, I'll do what I want." It's hard to be sympathetic.
Here is what we do:
4 @ the bottom
Fly to ceiling.
Go down 4.
Go back to bottom
while you are coming from the standpoint of "fuck you tank, you are going too fast," hard to be sympathetic