I'm glad we're arguing about trimming down the time it takes for people to start an instance. Back in my day you had to first advertise that you were looking for a group. Then invite the 4 people. THEN you had to walk uphill, both ways, in the snow, to GET to the instance.
If someone left you had to pull your contact strings to find someone, and without a warlock THEY would have to trek over to the dungeon.
And now the seconds between when someone instantly teleports to your dungeon (which you queued for and twiddled your thumbs...or did other things before instantly teleporting yourself) and when the pulls begin are of such importance...well, let's just say I'm enthralled by this line of conversation gentlemen.
this post right here.
I'm all for convenience, but the game has become so convenient now that people have an aneurysm if they have to wait for more than 10 seconds. It's an MMO. The game is a giant timesink. It's not like this is a timed arcade game.
I think just about every group I've been in since the dungeonfinder could do with slowing down even just a little bit.
Is there someplace on this internet where I can learn about macros? Is there a list of commands?
Also, PVP basics? I do alright...but I wanna be better. I can't ever make the cut for guild teams.
e: Haven't actually decided which class might be fun to play. I have a mage at 85, but she kind of bores me. I feel like doing melee, but dunno whether I should do warrior or paladin.
Are enhancement shamans viable in arena/BGs? How are rogues doing these days?
Laughing good at the past couple pages. Some of you would hate(or love) me to be your random tank. You have exactly however much time it takes me to load the instance and get to the first pull to be ready for the first pull. And then I'm not stopping for anything, not even if there's a fire!
But seriously? This all started from a comment about the holiday boss, from someone that instantly queued. The place is faceroll easy, and as mentioned you don't even need a tank. Your the primadonna tank everyone complains about. "Your pulling?! Rwwaaaarrr! I'm the Tank! Only I'm aloud to pull! I'm not tanking till you leave because I can't kick you for 15 minutes!"
Is there someplace on this internet where I can learn about macros? Is there a list of commands?
Also, PVP basics? I do alright...but I wanna be better. I can't ever make the cut for guild teams.
Your best bet is to check out class forums on forums like MMO-champion and arena junkies. Most people use macros to POp cool downs and trinkets. Some people utilize Target condition macros like focus interrupts, mostly pvpers and really good raid dpsers.
You do know that not letting a rage-based tank pull is a really good way to start the pull on a bad foot?
While I'm sort of on your side in this whole argument, this is a silly thing to say.
a) I'm pretty sure he knows how rage works
b) You don't get extra rage for charging something first
c) At least for warriors, Sentinel gives you more rage for attacking things that aren't attacking you
Honestly unless they were popping cooldowns and going batshit insane on the first pull I can't see how a charge > rend > thunderclap wouldn't give you aggro anyways.
The people who agree with you already agree with you, and the people who don't aren't going to be swayed by ridiculous arguments. Just let it go already.
tanking is already one of the most active roles in an instance that requires the most awareness. you're expected to compensate for everyone else being worthless and unable to focus.
there's no good reason to make the tank's job any harder.
Wow, there is sooo much hate for Athene/Swifty/Totalbiscuit on the MMO champ forums. Like every thread degenerates into
"I don't know why everyone watches swifty he's not so great"
"equally idiotic response"
"You're just a fanboy/hater/troll/etc etc."
I've been there five minutes and I'm already sick of reading it.
Since you bring it here I can only assume you want our opinion, too!
Swifty seems like a cool guy to me, from what I've seen of him (not much). The other two, Athene and Totalbiscuit, I consider to be an exploitative idiot with a cute girlfriend and a self-important masochist, respectively.
So I didn't realize levelling by questing with heirlooms was so fast pre-60 now. I think I may just skip doing dungeons before Ramparts on new characters unless I want to test out healing or whatever.
Questing is by far the fastest way to level, take it from me. I've leveled a boatload of characters, and I was the realm first 70 Draenei on Bloodhoof.
Zygor's guide is pretty good at giving you a route, although you kinda need to know what quests to skip and when to jump zone if you have a lot of heirlooms.
It's not perfect, however...maybe I should come up with my own guide. :P
So, after taking advantage of Call to Tanks malfunctioning, and queueing a couple of times for the sack as a healer, I have come to a conclusion:
Healing randoms through heroics is terrifying.
the same thing with tanking; hence call to tanks
edit: but now you have to tell us stories
First one was a Halls of Origination with quite possibly the worst DK tank I've ever seen. Despite Death and Decay being the world's most amazing threat ability, he just could not hold aggro. Now, I'm healing in all epics, but my chest/shoulders/legs/hands are elemental gear, because I haven't gotten the valor to get a full resto set yet. I was dropping fucking Mana Tide on trash because he was apparently just avoiding the use of any of his cooldowns, or something, and constantly having to GHW the rogue and warrior from near death (neither of them was doing impressive damage, he was apparently just that bad) was really rough on the mana.
We wiped to the guy in the room with the four elementals because the DPS were standing in beams, and one of them died early because of it. I almost managed to heal the rogue through killing the boss from 10% alone, after the tank stood in a beam until he died, but we lost at like 3%. Fortunately, on the next attempt, people actually moved when beams went on them, so no DPS died and we won.
I have never been more thankful that a group wanted to skip the 3 bosses up top.
Next group was, compared to that shitfest, relatively smooth. Had a paladin tank who said it was his first time tanking a heroic, but he actually did well. The group used CC, and I found myself ending pulls with 80-90% mana, which was a welcome change.
Gonna have to get better Resto gear or something. Apparently raw item level isn't enough.
Edit: Also in my satchels I received nothing but disappointment. Fortunately, that's what I was expecting.
Usually we had dps start pulls, because we opened with CC, which the DPS was usually doing. But I guess CCing doesn't create threat anymore anyway so meh? Eitherway, our bear tank never had issues, if someone laid it on to thick at the start for whatever reason they can always just pop an aggro wipe move.
I guess the one satchel did at least have enough gold in it to cover the repairs for that group's wipes.
In unrelated news, one of our 10 man's tanks will be unable to raid with us anymore due to his work schedule, so we need a replacement for him ASAP. Anyone want to join a guild that got to 7/13H raiding twice a week starting at the end of January?
Application test does include wrestling a live tiger while being quizzed on Vanilla WoW mechanics.
I guess the one satchel did at least have enough gold in it to cover the repairs for that group's wipes.
Yeah, this is one thing that I don't think can be emphasized enough about cta - it increases the chances tanks/healers will stick with marginal dps by far by covering up to two full repairs from everything broken per run. I'm a lot less worried about a wipe when I know I've got 160g coming my way at the end.
Arivia on
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
Also I'm too lazy to go back and find it but GIANT LIME ABOUT KICKING MORE THAN ONE DPS PER RUN yes plz
I kicked a bunch of losers while doing dungeons leveling with my cousin.
Uh, apparently we're not ever allowed to kick people ever again. For the past several days, trying to kick anyone who wasn't disconnected, ever, just gives "That player cannot be kicked for another two hours."
Yeah, the limits on kicking seem pretty ridiculous. I might understand it, except that pretty much every group has a person or two that is ruining the group through incompetence or intentional sabotage. If I actually kicked every bad player I would never be able to kick ever again.
It's like the system was built not realizing that WoW's player base is basically a bunch of terrible people.
I have run into some people who I'm grateful get that cooldown
once I zoned in and the healer said the chaos orb was his and proceeded to kick the dps who said no it's not
that's just being a douche
i kicked someone for being a male blood elf once
but the vast majority of our kicks have been DPS who pull extra groups, who don't actually DPS, who AFK for long periods, or who decide that they need to be the one setting the pace of the dungeon (which just annoys me in general)
Totally random question; has anyone tried soloing the 5man icc heroics at 85?
Forge of Souls isn't too bad. Some of the stuff in there stuns which can be annoying though. Pit of Saron can be a bit of a challenge. I advise skipping the vrykuls riding the blue protodrakes. I haven't tried Halls yet. I'm skeered.
Yeah, the limits on kicking seem pretty ridiculous. I might understand it, except that pretty much every group has a person or two that is ruining the group through incompetence or intentional sabotage. If I actually kicked every bad player I would never be able to kick ever again.
It's like the system was built not realizing that WoW's player base is basically a bunch of terrible people.
Alternatively, those people are paying customers and outnumber the good players, who were probably getting tired of getting kicked from groups constantly and quitting.
Ostensibly, it is a system that punishes people who kick players rather than punishing people who are awful enough to get kicked!
but what is it precisely?
how does it work?
The more often you kick someone, the longer the cooldown on kicking someone on a subsequent run.
The shitty thing is that they have to put countermeasures in to prevent people from being douchegeese and kicking people at random. The internet fuckwad theory is really what causes issues with every solution they could put into the LFG system.
Wouldn't it be neat if you could "rate" people on say, a 1-5 scale at the end of a run, and the higher your rating the higher your priority in the queue?
Sadly, something like this would be trolled, just because it can be.
You know, for as inconvenient as it was, the slowboat method of having to recruit people personally - people from your own server that you could blacklist if they turned out to be real assholes/worthless trash - had its merits.
Sure, you can ignore people in the LFD, but you'll reach your max number of ignores long before you actually improve your player pool.
Ostensibly, it is a system that punishes people who kick players rather than punishing people who are awful enough to get kicked!
but what is it precisely?
how does it work?
The more often you kick someone, the longer the cooldown on kicking someone on a subsequent run.
The shitty thing is that they have to put countermeasures in to prevent people from being douchegeese and kicking people at random. The internet fuckwad theory is really what causes issues with every solution they could put into the LFG system.
Wouldn't it be neat if you could "rate" people on say, a 1-5 scale at the end of a run, and the higher your rating the higher your priority in the queue?
Sadly, something like this would be trolled, just because it can be.
Yeah that system wouldn't really work. I did hear a good suggestion for a rating system though, where you simply get a thing at the end and are asked if you would want to run with those people again, and answer yes or no for each of them. Then in future runs you'd not be matched with any you said no to and would be more likely to be matched with those you say yes. So you can't really troll anyone but yourself. Of course there's far to many people in a battlegroup for your recommendations to have any affect on their own so you would also use those of your guild mates, friends and even the people that you said yes to, so over time the quality of your groups would rise.
Is there someplace on this internet where I can learn about macros? Is there a list of commands?
Also, PVP basics? I do alright...but I wanna be better. I can't ever make the cut for guild teams.
e: Haven't actually decided which class might be fun to play. I have a mage at 85, but she kind of bores me. I feel like doing melee, but dunno whether I should do warrior or paladin.
Are enhancement shamans viable in arena/BGs? How are rogues doing these days?
You already got a link for macros, but I'll second it: go to wowpedia, type in "macros" and you'll get HowTo articles and long lists of (often outdated) macros. I found that the best way to learn about macros is just thinking about what you want to do and then finding out how to do it. And then post it here, because there'll be 5 people that can make your macro better. And then you'll be the one to make macros better.
RE: PvP. Rogues will probably always be good in PvP as it's basically part of their archetype. Currently plate wearing melee shit on the other melee, though, so both of your chars wouldn't be "ideal" in a true minmaxing sense. You can't really go wrong with a rogue, they have very nice tools and good enough damage.
Enhancement Shaman are worse, I'd say on the border of being viable, ymmv on which side. They suffer from the lack of burst cooldowns (they have none, because wolves do shit damage), so setting up a kill is needlessly complicated (get stacks of searing flames on target, have all abilities free, have 5 stack maelstrom, be on the target's ass and then pop your trinket, because that is the only CD you have).
On the other hand, Enhancement brings nice tools. An AoE snare remover is good, as is Tremor. With Wind Shear (ranged interrupt for a melee!) and Grounding you can ruin a caster's day. Purge is still good if you can connect to a target from time to time, to fill up your mana.
Sham. Rage was once great and is now ok. With the buff to UA dispel damage you can't really glyph it anymore, for fear of encountering a warlock.
For Arena, the problem is that Enhancement tools can mostly be covered by Resto and Resto + Warrior + Frost DK is just plain better than any healer + Enhancement + X.
Grobian on
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
As long as people obey the fight mechanics for bosses and CC and/or properly abuse the cauldrons for trash then it's fine. If you have people who can't run away from each other when there's a green line connecting them, cycle so the furthest person out doesn't have a debuff, kill adds before the boss, or interrupt casting mobs, it's tough as shit. So it's basically pretty damn tough since the majority of people do those bad things.
Opty on
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Okay cool. I joined a group in progress and they were on the panther boss with all the adds in ZG. It was really tough and everyone was constantly at like ~25% hp. two of the DPS got killed by the same wave at once. it got a lot easier to heal after that, the tank and remaining DPS moved away from her aoe circle thing and the wave and didn't really take much damage, but then she went into her shapeshifted form and built up 20 stacks faster than one DPS could kill her and it was a wipe. they kicked me, so whatever.
Okay cool. I joined a group in progress and they were on the panther boss with all the adds in ZG. It was really tough and everyone was constantly at like ~25% hp. two of the DPS got killed by the same wave at once. it got a lot easier to heal after that, the tank and remaining DPS moved away from her aoe circle thing and the wave and didn't really take much damage, but then she went into her shapeshifted form and built up 20 stacks faster than one DPS could kill her and it was a wipe. they kicked me, so whatever.
If people got hit by the wave then that wasn't your fault. That fight can be pretty tough to heal in the first phase even if it's done right because of all the adds. If the tank doesn't pick them all up quick or the dps don't let him then suddenly everyone's taking damage. I'm going to guess that the previous healer got kicked because he "sucked" and they continued to kick healers till they couldn't kick anymore then beat their head against the encounter till they disbanded. I suspect you were better off not learning any bad habits from them.
On a related note, I'm not too fussed about how the vote kick timer works. I don't know if I'm just lucky or if you guys have much higher standards but I can't remember the last time I was in a group that needed more than one person kicked. Poor execution can be corrected through communication in most cases, and while it stretches things out a bit it is possible to finish a heroic with all the dps doing 6-7k. In my opinion the vote kick is there to use on douchebags, ninjas, and people who refuse to take advice, not people who aren't good at the game. Them you teach.
tarnok on
Wii Code:
0431-6094-6446-7088
0
Options
INeedNoSaltwith blood on my teethRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
90% of people who are bad at WoW turn into douchebags the moment you try to help them
Posts
this post right here.
I'm all for convenience, but the game has become so convenient now that people have an aneurysm if they have to wait for more than 10 seconds. It's an MMO. The game is a giant timesink. It's not like this is a timed arcade game.
I think just about every group I've been in since the dungeonfinder could do with slowing down even just a little bit.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Also, PVP basics? I do alright...but I wanna be better. I can't ever make the cut for guild teams.
e: Haven't actually decided which class might be fun to play. I have a mage at 85, but she kind of bores me. I feel like doing melee, but dunno whether I should do warrior or paladin.
Are enhancement shamans viable in arena/BGs? How are rogues doing these days?
But seriously? This all started from a comment about the holiday boss, from someone that instantly queued. The place is faceroll easy, and as mentioned you don't even need a tank. Your the primadonna tank everyone complains about. "Your pulling?! Rwwaaaarrr! I'm the Tank! Only I'm aloud to pull! I'm not tanking till you leave because I can't kick you for 15 minutes!"
Your best bet is to check out class forums on forums like MMO-champion and arena junkies. Most people use macros to POp cool downs and trinkets. Some people utilize Target condition macros like focus interrupts, mostly pvpers and really good raid dpsers.
"I don't know why everyone watches swifty he's not so great"
"equally idiotic response"
"You're just a fanboy/hater/troll/etc etc."
I've been there five minutes and I'm already sick of reading it.
While I'm sort of on your side in this whole argument, this is a silly thing to say.
a) I'm pretty sure he knows how rage works
b) You don't get extra rage for charging something first
c) At least for warriors, Sentinel gives you more rage for attacking things that aren't attacking you
Honestly unless they were popping cooldowns and going batshit insane on the first pull I can't see how a charge > rend > thunderclap wouldn't give you aggro anyways.
The people who agree with you already agree with you, and the people who don't aren't going to be swayed by ridiculous arguments. Just let it go already.
tanking is already one of the most active roles in an instance that requires the most awareness. you're expected to compensate for everyone else being worthless and unable to focus.
there's no good reason to make the tank's job any harder.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Since you bring it here I can only assume you want our opinion, too!
Swifty seems like a cool guy to me, from what I've seen of him (not much). The other two, Athene and Totalbiscuit, I consider to be an exploitative idiot with a cute girlfriend and a self-important masochist, respectively.
Questing is by far the fastest way to level, take it from me. I've leveled a boatload of characters, and I was the realm first 70 Draenei on Bloodhoof.
Zygor's guide is pretty good at giving you a route, although you kinda need to know what quests to skip and when to jump zone if you have a lot of heirlooms.
It's not perfect, however...maybe I should come up with my own guide. :P
First one was a Halls of Origination with quite possibly the worst DK tank I've ever seen. Despite Death and Decay being the world's most amazing threat ability, he just could not hold aggro. Now, I'm healing in all epics, but my chest/shoulders/legs/hands are elemental gear, because I haven't gotten the valor to get a full resto set yet. I was dropping fucking Mana Tide on trash because he was apparently just avoiding the use of any of his cooldowns, or something, and constantly having to GHW the rogue and warrior from near death (neither of them was doing impressive damage, he was apparently just that bad) was really rough on the mana.
We wiped to the guy in the room with the four elementals because the DPS were standing in beams, and one of them died early because of it. I almost managed to heal the rogue through killing the boss from 10% alone, after the tank stood in a beam until he died, but we lost at like 3%. Fortunately, on the next attempt, people actually moved when beams went on them, so no DPS died and we won.
I have never been more thankful that a group wanted to skip the 3 bosses up top.
Next group was, compared to that shitfest, relatively smooth. Had a paladin tank who said it was his first time tanking a heroic, but he actually did well. The group used CC, and I found myself ending pulls with 80-90% mana, which was a welcome change.
Gonna have to get better Resto gear or something. Apparently raw item level isn't enough.
Edit: Also in my satchels I received nothing but disappointment. Fortunately, that's what I was expecting.
Also the best thing I have received so far out of a satchel was a Durotar Scorpion as Horde.
In unrelated news, one of our 10 man's tanks will be unable to raid with us anymore due to his work schedule, so we need a replacement for him ASAP. Anyone want to join a guild that got to 7/13H raiding twice a week starting at the end of January?
Application test does include wrestling a live tiger while being quizzed on Vanilla WoW mechanics.
http://www.wowpedia.org/Useful_macros
Yeah, this is one thing that I don't think can be emphasized enough about cta - it increases the chances tanks/healers will stick with marginal dps by far by covering up to two full repairs from everything broken per run. I'm a lot less worried about a wipe when I know I've got 160g coming my way at the end.
I kicked a bunch of losers while doing dungeons leveling with my cousin.
Uh, apparently we're not ever allowed to kick people ever again. For the past several days, trying to kick anyone who wasn't disconnected, ever, just gives "That player cannot be kicked for another two hours."
It's like the system was built not realizing that WoW's player base is basically a bunch of terrible people.
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
It seems incredibly obtuse
Ostensibly, it is a system that punishes people who kick players rather than punishing people who are awful enough to get kicked!
once I zoned in and the healer said the chaos orb was his and proceeded to kick the dps who said no it's not
that's just being a douche
but what is it precisely?
how does it work?
i kicked someone for being a male blood elf once
but the vast majority of our kicks have been DPS who pull extra groups, who don't actually DPS, who AFK for long periods, or who decide that they need to be the one setting the pace of the dungeon (which just annoys me in general)
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
Blizzard: Galedrid#1367 - FFXIV: Galedrid Kingshand
Forge of Souls isn't too bad. Some of the stuff in there stuns which can be annoying though. Pit of Saron can be a bit of a challenge. I advise skipping the vrykuls riding the blue protodrakes. I haven't tried Halls yet. I'm skeered.
Alternatively, those people are paying customers and outnumber the good players, who were probably getting tired of getting kicked from groups constantly and quitting.
Not defending it, just saying.
The more often you kick someone, the longer the cooldown on kicking someone on a subsequent run.
The shitty thing is that they have to put countermeasures in to prevent people from being douchegeese and kicking people at random. The internet fuckwad theory is really what causes issues with every solution they could put into the LFG system.
Wouldn't it be neat if you could "rate" people on say, a 1-5 scale at the end of a run, and the higher your rating the higher your priority in the queue?
Sadly, something like this would be trolled, just because it can be.
Sure, you can ignore people in the LFD, but you'll reach your max number of ignores long before you actually improve your player pool.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
The slowboat method also had the upside of never actually getting into a dungeon if you weren't lucky, so I mean, there's that.
You already got a link for macros, but I'll second it: go to wowpedia, type in "macros" and you'll get HowTo articles and long lists of (often outdated) macros. I found that the best way to learn about macros is just thinking about what you want to do and then finding out how to do it. And then post it here, because there'll be 5 people that can make your macro better. And then you'll be the one to make macros better.
RE: PvP. Rogues will probably always be good in PvP as it's basically part of their archetype. Currently plate wearing melee shit on the other melee, though, so both of your chars wouldn't be "ideal" in a true minmaxing sense. You can't really go wrong with a rogue, they have very nice tools and good enough damage.
Enhancement Shaman are worse, I'd say on the border of being viable, ymmv on which side. They suffer from the lack of burst cooldowns (they have none, because wolves do shit damage), so setting up a kill is needlessly complicated (get stacks of searing flames on target, have all abilities free, have 5 stack maelstrom, be on the target's ass and then pop your trinket, because that is the only CD you have).
On the other hand, Enhancement brings nice tools. An AoE snare remover is good, as is Tremor. With Wind Shear (ranged interrupt for a melee!) and Grounding you can ruin a caster's day. Purge is still good if you can connect to a target from time to time, to fill up your mana.
Sham. Rage was once great and is now ok. With the buff to UA dispel damage you can't really glyph it anymore, for fear of encountering a warlock.
For Arena, the problem is that Enhancement tools can mostly be covered by Resto and Resto + Warrior + Frost DK is just plain better than any healer + Enhancement + X.
If people got hit by the wave then that wasn't your fault. That fight can be pretty tough to heal in the first phase even if it's done right because of all the adds. If the tank doesn't pick them all up quick or the dps don't let him then suddenly everyone's taking damage. I'm going to guess that the previous healer got kicked because he "sucked" and they continued to kick healers till they couldn't kick anymore then beat their head against the encounter till they disbanded. I suspect you were better off not learning any bad habits from them.
On a related note, I'm not too fussed about how the vote kick timer works. I don't know if I'm just lucky or if you guys have much higher standards but I can't remember the last time I was in a group that needed more than one person kicked. Poor execution can be corrected through communication in most cases, and while it stretches things out a bit it is possible to finish a heroic with all the dps doing 6-7k. In my opinion the vote kick is there to use on douchebags, ninjas, and people who refuse to take advice, not people who aren't good at the game. Them you teach.
0431-6094-6446-7088