Ugh yes let's take a telephone survey article where they don't list the exact questions asked as absolute truth, because those results can always be trusted.
This isn't to say that it's unlikely atheists are highly untrusted by the majority populace, or that the article doesn't have a good general message on education, it's just that unless you know exactly what the questions being asked are study results like this mean fuck all. Poor or vague wording on a survey question can color the answer and then you can just throw down whatever results you want.
More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.
Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.
I know Butters and other northerners like to think we're basically northern Alabama down here, but I have never seen something like this, and not all of us talk like they do.
I'm going to say it's in Missouri or Mississippi or something.
Ugh yes let's take a telephone survey article where they don't list the exact questions asked as absolute truth, because those results can always be trusted.
This isn't to say that it's unlikely atheists are highly untrusted by the majority populace, or that the article doesn't have a good general message on education, it's just that unless you know exactly what the questions being asked are study results like this mean fuck all. Poor or vague wording on a survey question can color the answer and then you can just throw down whatever results you want.
More than 2,000 randomly selected people were interviewed by researchers from the University of Minnesota.
Asked whether they would disapprove of a child's wish to marry an atheist, 47.6 percent of those interviewed said yes. Asked the same question about Muslims and African-Americans, the yes responses fell to 33.5 percent and 27.2 percent, respectively. The yes responses for Asian-Americans, Hispanics, Jews and conservative Christians were 18.5 percent, 18.5 percent, 11.8 percent and 6.9 percent, respectively.
When asked which groups did not share their vision of American society, 39.5 percent of those interviewed mentioned atheists. Asked the same question about Muslims and homosexuals, the figures dropped to a slightly less depressing 26.3 percent and 22.6 percent, respectively. For Hispanics, Jews, Asian-Americans and African-Americans, they fell further to 7.6 percent, 7.4 percent, 7.0 percent and 4.6 percent, respectively.
If this was the exact question asked, as in "Would you disapprove of your child's wish to marry an x" over and over again for each different group then sure. It's just so easy to color a survey to your liking that I have difficulty trusting any of them.
Again though, just on general principle the article has a good point in getting friendly atheists to speak out. Part of the problem likely doesn't even lie in the whole not believing in God thing. It's the view some have that all atheists are pompous assholes about it.
I'm not really being fair to those kids accents. I know that I sound like I just stepped off a bus from somewhere in the south or west, but I have an excuse.
All my family is from Appalachia and this city had large numbers of them move up here during and after the war. That's why people call it Hamiltucky.
If this was the exact question asked, as in "Would you disapprove of your child's wish to marry an x" over and over again for each different group then sure. It's just so easy to color a survey to your liking that I have difficulty trusting any of them.
Well, that's your problem, not the study's. If you actually read what the researchers said, you'll see that they were expecting Muslims to be the group picked on, and put atheists in as a throwaway, so I really doubt they were somehow influencing the participants to distrust atheists 8 to 1 over African Americans.
Again though, just on general principle the article has a good point in getting friendly atheists to speak out. Part of the problem likely doesn't even lie in the whole not believing in God thing. It's the view some have that all atheists are pompous assholes about it.
I'll admit, when I found out 'Kaiser' is how the Germans pronounce Caesar it threw me for a bit of a loop
I was thrown for a loop when I found out that's how the word Caesar was actually originally pronounced.
I think the German's pronouce it with more of an authoritative, Saxon twang than the Romans
But yeah basically.
Tsar (Tzar) is also derived from caesar.
Other spellings include Csar and Czar, which are more obviously related
It's pretty amazing just how much European culture was influenced by the Romans, even more than a thousand years after the Empire fell.
also central asian and middle-eastern and potentially even western china
You've got temple statues in Japan which may or may not be based on Hercules.
The silk road is the neatest thing.
Did anyone read that Nat Geo article about Dunhuang last summer? It's this series of Buddhist caves built along a Silk Road waterway over like, a thousand years. You can see artistic and religious influences from all over the world because it was such a major confluence of cultures for such a long time. It was totally amazing to read about and now it's way up on my list of places to visit. I got to see a traveling exhibit on it here, but I can't even imagine how impressive the real thing would be in person.
So I know this was a couple pages up but I wanted to bump this quote tree to spread a bit of history.
The reason the for the German word Kaiser and the Russian Tsar comming into being is at the heart of some interesting history.
Charlamagne became the first Holy Roman Emperor, crowned by the Pope. Following this tradition, all German emperors took the title of "Caesar" because they were considered to be the inheritants of the Roman Empire.
However, as we all know the power of the Roman Empire shifted from Rome to Byzantium courtesy of Constantine I about 1500 years ago. When the Schism erupted, you had two separate peoples claiming to be the true "descendants" of the Roman Empire. You had the Latin/Germanic Holy Roman Empire and the more-or-less Grecian Byzantine Empire. The Latins being Catholic, and the Greeks being Orthodox, naturally. You also have a brief period when in 1204 the Fourth Crusade seized Constantinople and declared a French nobleman to be the new Emperor, establishing a brief Catholic Latin "Roman" Empire.
When the Ottoman Turks sacked Constantinople and effectively ended the Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman Sultans called themselves the Emperors of Rum, which was their word for "Rome." They had gone and claimed that they, having possession of Constantinople and the former seat of the Eastern Roman Empire, were the new and proper owners of the title of "Caesar" though they didn't really use it much.
In response to this the Russians, now being the most populous and powerful Orthodox state, went ahead and called the Ottoman claim invalid, and began to call their Emperors "Tsars."
So basically you have people after people, on through the march of history, each getting progressively less Roman with each iteration, claiming to be the "New Roman Empire."
If this was the exact question asked, as in "Would you disapprove of your child's wish to marry an x" over and over again for each different group then sure. It's just so easy to color a survey to your liking that I have difficulty trusting any of them.
Well, that's your problem, not the study's. If you actually read what the researchers said, you'll see that they were expecting Muslims to be the group picked on, and put atheists in as a throwaway, so I really doubt they were somehow influencing the participants to distrust atheists 8 to 1 over African Americans.
Again though, just on general principle the article has a good point in getting friendly atheists to speak out. Part of the problem likely doesn't even lie in the whole not believing in God thing. It's the view some have that all atheists are pompous assholes about it.
"some have", huh.
Fair enough on the first point.
On the second point, yes, some have. I supposed I could have used "most have" instead but frankly I don't believe that most people even think about it enough to form an opinion. Was using the rolleyes emoticon really so necessary for punctuation that you had to go grab it from your photobucket?
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Tossrocktoo weird to livetoo rare to dieRegistered Userregular
edited May 2011
like any good forumer I always have :roll: in my clipboard
and I used it because you were being unbelievably passive aggressive. If you think atheists are pompous assholes, say it yourself like a big boy. Weren't you just talking about how ultrabad it is to manipulate public opinion to express your own views?
Yup... This is about the sort of place I grew up in.
I wouldn't say the whole thing is scary. I just found it funny that the first words that girl said commenting on evolutionary theory was "It has to be proven!"
What was rather -worthy was when at the end that mouth-breather comments that it doesn't make sense because black people have different skin.
I hope the Rapture takes all the homeless dudes in this city. I can't walk anywhere without being asked for money. They all tell me they're Christians or have recently found Jesus or have been saved or some variation on that theme. Them getting taken to heaven where they don't have to worry about where their crack and booze money is coming from would be beneficial to all parties, I feel.
I came from somewhere that doesn't really have a large homeless population, and the people that are homeless are very very hidden and don't bother anyone. I can understand how they make you uncomfortable, they make me uncomfortable, but this is like the 3rd time you've mentioned something like this.
I mean, worst case scenario you feel temporarily uncomfortable. On their end, they're still homeless after you walk away. So I dunno.
Yeah, sorry if I bring it up a lot. The homeless folks around me are far from hidden though. There are usually at least 20 in the lot adjacent to ours, a bunch walking around our block and a ton that sit on the walls of the park between our apartment and the grocery store. I get asked for money going down to the Publix, half the time I exit the Walgreens, anytime I go to the post office and whenever I walk or drive somewhere downtown, especially if I am filling up with gas. They see Sarah's new-model car and wait outside my door so they can give me directions and ask for money.
And I do give it to them if I have anything in my pockets to spare, which is why I'm upset. I hate ignoring people asking for help and I would like to help them in a meaningful way but I just started working again and I feel like there's nothing I could really do as their situation is complex and some of them have been on the streets for probably years and have given-up on any kind of life other than living off of hand-outs. It makes me really upset since most of them are pretty friendly and lucid compared to the people I was used to seeing in the subway back in Boston.
like any good forumer I always have :roll: in my clipboard
and I used it because you were being unbelievably passive aggressive. If you think atheists are pompous assholes, say it yourself like a big boy. Weren't you just talking about how ultrabad it is to manipulate public opinion to express your own views?
That is literally not at all what he said and you know it. He said some people hold the view that atheists are all pompous assholes, which is entirely a true statement.
because obnoxiously telling people thier beliefs are wrong never made anyone change thier beliefs
Uhm.
Thats not what they do? They focus mostly on encouraging people who are atheist to come out publicly and for those who have questions to come and discuss whatever they want. Its not like they walk around handing out pamphlets. Its like any other campus organization. they hold events and whoever comes will come.
Last week they had a Christian apologist group come give a lecture on abortion, then had some question & answer sessions.
They also regularly have panels and moderated discussions between different religious groups on campus.
FUCKIN ATHEISTS
Smug assholes.
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I want to do with you
What spring does with the cherry trees.
I hope the Rapture takes all the homeless dudes in this city. I can't walk anywhere without being asked for money. They all tell me they're Christians or have recently found Jesus or have been saved or some variation on that theme. Them getting taken to heaven where they don't have to worry about where their crack and booze money is coming from would be beneficial to all parties, I feel.
I came from somewhere that doesn't really have a large homeless population, and the people that are homeless are very very hidden and don't bother anyone. I can understand how they make you uncomfortable, they make me uncomfortable, but this is like the 3rd time you've mentioned something like this.
I mean, worst case scenario you feel temporarily uncomfortable. On their end, they're still homeless after you walk away. So I dunno.
Yeah, sorry if I bring it up a lot. The homeless folks around me are far from hidden though. There are usually at least 20 in the lot adjacent to ours, a bunch walking around our block and a ton that sit on the walls of the park between our apartment and the grocery store. I get asked for money going down to the Publix, half the time I exit the Walgreens, anytime I go to the post office and whenever I walk or drive somewhere downtown, especially if I am filling up with gas. They see Sarah's new-model car and wait outside my door so they can give me directions and ask for money.
And I do give it to them if I have anything in my pockets to spare, which is why I'm upset. I hate ignoring people asking for help and I would like to help them in a meaningful way but I just started working again and I feel like there's nothing I could really do as their situation is complex and some of them have been on the streets for probably years and have given-up on any kind of life other than living off of hand-outs. It makes me really upset since most of them are pretty friendly and lucid compared to the people I was used to seeing in the subway back in Boston.
I'll shut up about it from now-on.
I have your problem solved.
But, you see, I had a job down at Georgia State in the loading docks, but... you ever hear of OSHA? Yeah they got rules man. Anyway, I need boots to go back to work and I found this pair in a pawn shop, but I ain't got two nickels so if you could....
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Sara LynnI can handle myself.Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
I mean, it is depressing to see that as a society we basically write off these people. Yeah, some of them make up stupid stories, but after how many years they just get tired of saying "I'm hungry" and maybe think some out-of-towner will hear their story they've changed 60 times and believe them and give them a dollar.
I give money very rarely, if I do it's not more than a couple bucks. I don't really care if they use it for drugs or for food or for whatever, anyone can lose everything. Anyone can get caught up in something, maybe some people will think that makes them dumb and that means they deserve it, but I just can't see it that way.
Atlanta in general weirds me out in that way, and in other ways. I've been missing Pennsylvania lately just because I'm tired of seeing the rat-race for money, everyone is so worried about it all the time. Maybe because I'm in the restaurant industry and it's all about hitting 300 dollars a night when that's about half my paycheck, and I'm just getting frustrated, or whatever. Even if Butler is 15,000 people small, there are no bums sleeping on the street, it's quiet, and everyone is pretty humble. It's not moneymoneymoney, clubbing all the time, I feel like I can't relate to people down here. We don't even have hipsters, they probably won't hit Butler for another 8 years.
I have no idea why I am rambling in this thread. Sorry, end-of-the-world thread.
It's really interesting seeing the mental gymnastics so many Americans (including many in this thread) go through to try and rationalize their feeling that either atheists deserve/earned the ire they tend to get, or that it doesn't really happen.
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Blake TDo you have enemies then?Good. That means you’ve stood up for something, sometime in your life.Registered Userregular
edited May 2011
Because they are going to HELL and obviously have no morals. Why would you be nice shadow demon worshipers.
Thing is probably most of those people aren't homeless.
There are a ton of people sitting around campus asking for money - but its because people will give it to them. There is one guy who will sit in the same spot every single day asking everyone who walks by for spare change as they come out of a Wendy's.
I've seen how many people give him change and I'm almost willing to bet he makes more money doing that than he would if he just went inside, picked up an application, and started working at the Wendy's full time.
Posts
Is it said that this is Dayton Ohio?
I know Butters and other northerners like to think we're basically northern Alabama down here, but I have never seen something like this, and not all of us talk like they do.
I'm going to say it's in Missouri or Mississippi or something.
Maybe even Kentucky.
Please, don't tell me it's Ohio.
you're scaring me, Ohio
If this was the exact question asked, as in "Would you disapprove of your child's wish to marry an x" over and over again for each different group then sure. It's just so easy to color a survey to your liking that I have difficulty trusting any of them.
Again though, just on general principle the article has a good point in getting friendly atheists to speak out. Part of the problem likely doesn't even lie in the whole not believing in God thing. It's the view some have that all atheists are pompous assholes about it.
All my family is from Appalachia and this city had large numbers of them move up here during and after the war. That's why people call it Hamiltucky.
But still, they were pretty bad.
oww, my braaaaaiiiin
http://accent.gmu.edu/
Might find something on there.
I don't even care what sex they are.
Well, that's your problem, not the study's. If you actually read what the researchers said, you'll see that they were expecting Muslims to be the group picked on, and put atheists in as a throwaway, so I really doubt they were somehow influencing the participants to distrust atheists 8 to 1 over African Americans.
"some have", huh.
I listened to the one from my general area and it sounds completely normal.
Maybe it would sound weird from the outside or something?
So I know this was a couple pages up but I wanted to bump this quote tree to spread a bit of history.
The reason the for the German word Kaiser and the Russian Tsar comming into being is at the heart of some interesting history.
Charlamagne became the first Holy Roman Emperor, crowned by the Pope. Following this tradition, all German emperors took the title of "Caesar" because they were considered to be the inheritants of the Roman Empire.
However, as we all know the power of the Roman Empire shifted from Rome to Byzantium courtesy of Constantine I about 1500 years ago. When the Schism erupted, you had two separate peoples claiming to be the true "descendants" of the Roman Empire. You had the Latin/Germanic Holy Roman Empire and the more-or-less Grecian Byzantine Empire. The Latins being Catholic, and the Greeks being Orthodox, naturally. You also have a brief period when in 1204 the Fourth Crusade seized Constantinople and declared a French nobleman to be the new Emperor, establishing a brief Catholic Latin "Roman" Empire.
When the Ottoman Turks sacked Constantinople and effectively ended the Byzantine Empire, the Ottoman Sultans called themselves the Emperors of Rum, which was their word for "Rome." They had gone and claimed that they, having possession of Constantinople and the former seat of the Eastern Roman Empire, were the new and proper owners of the title of "Caesar" though they didn't really use it much.
In response to this the Russians, now being the most populous and powerful Orthodox state, went ahead and called the Ottoman claim invalid, and began to call their Emperors "Tsars."
So basically you have people after people, on through the march of history, each getting progressively less Roman with each iteration, claiming to be the "New Roman Empire."
Fun fucking times.
Fair enough on the first point.
On the second point, yes, some have. I supposed I could have used "most have" instead but frankly I don't believe that most people even think about it enough to form an opinion. Was using the rolleyes emoticon really so necessary for punctuation that you had to go grab it from your photobucket?
and I used it because you were being unbelievably passive aggressive. If you think atheists are pompous assholes, say it yourself like a big boy. Weren't you just talking about how ultrabad it is to manipulate public opinion to express your own views?
Question: Is there any way an atheist could debate a theist without the theist believing the atheist was a pompous asshole?
we had some.. christian... thing.. at primary school with veggie tales and shit
I just never ever thought anybody actually believed it until I was about 10 or so? It was weird
kpop appreciation station i also like to tweet some
he says that god exists. won't you believe him?
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
I wouldn't say the whole thing is scary. I just found it funny that the first words that girl said commenting on evolutionary theory was "It has to be proven!"
What was rather
Sigh. Some people's kids...
I was just like
WHAT THE FUCK
Well at least up here in the North West.
Ohmygod look at how happy that turtle is. The happiest of turtles. Wanna meet that turtle.
Yeah, sorry if I bring it up a lot. The homeless folks around me are far from hidden though. There are usually at least 20 in the lot adjacent to ours, a bunch walking around our block and a ton that sit on the walls of the park between our apartment and the grocery store. I get asked for money going down to the Publix, half the time I exit the Walgreens, anytime I go to the post office and whenever I walk or drive somewhere downtown, especially if I am filling up with gas. They see Sarah's new-model car and wait outside my door so they can give me directions and ask for money.
And I do give it to them if I have anything in my pockets to spare, which is why I'm upset. I hate ignoring people asking for help and I would like to help them in a meaningful way but I just started working again and I feel like there's nothing I could really do as their situation is complex and some of them have been on the streets for probably years and have given-up on any kind of life other than living off of hand-outs. It makes me really upset since most of them are pretty friendly and lucid compared to the people I was used to seeing in the subway back in Boston.
I'll shut up about it from now-on.
That is literally not at all what he said and you know it. He said some people hold the view that atheists are all pompous assholes, which is entirely a true statement.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Smug assholes.
What spring does with the cherry trees.
Then I pulled my head out of my ass and assessed my beliefs.
Now I am the smug asshole who has the universe all figured out.
Least of all, myself.
Scratch that: Least of all
kingworkscreative.com
kingworkscreative.blogspot.com
well, the ones I like, at least
I have your problem solved.
But, you see, I had a job down at Georgia State in the loading docks, but... you ever hear of OSHA? Yeah they got rules man. Anyway, I need boots to go back to work and I found this pair in a pawn shop, but I ain't got two nickels so if you could....
I give money very rarely, if I do it's not more than a couple bucks. I don't really care if they use it for drugs or for food or for whatever, anyone can lose everything. Anyone can get caught up in something, maybe some people will think that makes them dumb and that means they deserve it, but I just can't see it that way.
Atlanta in general weirds me out in that way, and in other ways. I've been missing Pennsylvania lately just because I'm tired of seeing the rat-race for money, everyone is so worried about it all the time. Maybe because I'm in the restaurant industry and it's all about hitting 300 dollars a night when that's about half my paycheck, and I'm just getting frustrated, or whatever. Even if Butler is 15,000 people small, there are no bums sleeping on the street, it's quiet, and everyone is pretty humble. It's not moneymoneymoney, clubbing all the time, I feel like I can't relate to people down here. We don't even have hipsters, they probably won't hit Butler for another 8 years.
I have no idea why I am rambling in this thread. Sorry, end-of-the-world thread.
Satans..... hints.....
There are a ton of people sitting around campus asking for money - but its because people will give it to them. There is one guy who will sit in the same spot every single day asking everyone who walks by for spare change as they come out of a Wendy's.
I've seen how many people give him change and I'm almost willing to bet he makes more money doing that than he would if he just went inside, picked up an application, and started working at the Wendy's full time.
like, seriously man, no one wants to see that