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[Bitching Thread VI] A Brand New Day (for bitching)

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Posts

  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    she's been able to talk for years. how long has it been since you read a comic with her in it? they did away with the unable to talk/reading body language business almost as soon as she got her own series.

    sixty some odd issues into her own series no they hadn't

    and I think that was probably the major reason why I stopped reading

    huntresssig.jpg
  • Robos A Go GoRobos A Go Go Registered User regular
    Arivia wrote:
    she's been able to talk for years. how long has it been since you read a comic with her in it? they did away with the unable to talk/reading body language business almost as soon as she got her own series.

    sixty some odd issues into her own series no they hadn't

    and I think that was probably the major reason why I stopped reading

    The character gains the ability to talk fairly early in her series, but she remains rather terse and uncommunicative for a long time thereafter since she still has to develop her vocabulary and social intelligence.

  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    okay

    well

    maybe my numbers were off

    but as far as I can remember, in all I'd read, she made a sound once or twice and that was it

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  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote:
    That's fine, as long as people can explain why they don't like something beyond "_______ sucks."

    I kind of thought her father was more of the cliche than anything.

    See, I think the father/daughter component to her character, was what made her most interesting. Yes, at first glance she's something of a stereotype, as an Asian girl who's super good at beating people up. But, I think there's a lot more interesting stuff about her character.

    Like, she understands people on an instinctual level. She can look at someone and, by the way their shoulders are hunched, their brow is furrowed, or their hands are clenched, know that they're sad, worried, or angry, and to what extent. But, her kryptonite, her Achilles heel, is that for all she understands people, she doesn't really understand people. People are an equation to her; X + Y = Z. Anger + Gun = Dodge. So she can see a man die, and know on an instinctual level how horrible and wrong it is, just by the way his body reacts in its death throes. Or she can see the anguish on a mother's face after her child dies, and know how powerful that emotion is. But, she has no frame of reference with which to empathize with that emotion.

    Then there's the whole relationship with the two paternal figures in her life, David Cain and Bruce Wayne. For all that Cain is a horrible monster of a man, she still loves him more than Bruce. He raised her, and due to her abilities, she probably understands him, more than she does anyone else on Earth. Bruce meanwhile, is nothing to her but a man that wears a symbol she has a profound respect for. That sets up an interesting push-and-pull, where she's torn between Cain, who she loves on an emotional level, despite hating everything he stands for, and Bruce, who she feels nothing towards as a person, but views Batman as almost something like a religion, with which to live her life by.

    Of course, this is all back when she was still interesting, and hadn't had all the cool aspects of her personality stripped away by terrible writers, and turned into an incredibly bland superheroine who's pretty good at punchin' and kickin'.

  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    David Cain always loses points to me because of how they tied him into Bruce Wayne murderer, mainly because they tried to add another layer that just seemed tacked on and ruined the ending.

  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Far as I could recall Cass was able to talk in bits and pieces in her own regular series, not very well mind you but she was able to say a few words. She was more of an action type girl then a chat your ear off one, usually her dialogue was shown via internal dialog boxes or basically someone else would be there telling you all the information you needed to know.

    This is one of the reasons why people were so angry when she went bad because not only was she suddenly you know, evil, she was able to talk normally and she even knew other languages. It was a major WTF that ticked people off.

    Cade on
  • JaythreefJaythreef Registered User regular
    Arivia wrote:
    she's been able to talk for years. how long has it been since you read a comic with her in it? they did away with the unable to talk/reading body language business almost as soon as she got her own series.

    sixty some odd issues into her own series no they hadn't

    and I think that was probably the major reason why I stopped reading

    The character gains the ability to talk fairly early in her series, but she remains rather terse and uncommunicative for a long time thereafter since she still has to develop her vocabulary and social intelligence.

    Would you need to build up your vocabulary if you didn't talk? I mean, you still hear and read things.

  • Garlic BreadGarlic Bread i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a bitch i'm a Registered User, Disagreeable regular
    Arivia wrote: »
    okay

    well

    maybe my numbers were off

    but as far as I can remember, in all I'd read, she made a sound once or twice and that was it

    Pretty early on (like, the first storyline?) in her series some dude "fixes" her brain telepathically and she can speak and read but loses her body reading ability

  • LolkenLolken Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    I'm late to the party, but here's to more Kick-Ass 2 bitching. What would Lyndsy Fonseca or Christopher Charles Mintz-Plasse say if they saw the 4th issue, huh?

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Lolken wrote:
    I'm late to the party, but here's to more Kick-Ass 2 bitching. What would Lyndsy Fonseca or Christopher Charles Mintz-Plasse say if they saw the 4th issue, huh?

    They'd say, "No way in fuck does this make it into the sequel."

    wirehead26 on
    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • WiseManTobesWiseManTobes Registered User regular
    wirehead26 wrote:
    Lolken wrote:
    I'm late to the party, but here's to more Kick-Ass 2 bitching. What would Lyndsy Fonseca or Christopher Charles Mintz-Plasse say if they saw the 4th issue, huh?

    They'd say, "No way in fuck does this make it into the sequel."

    Isn't that Millar's only point now, like hasn't he said it? The whole " Omg I'm hardcore, I'm so hardcore my next book will be too hardcore to be the sequel, cause , hardcore!"
    Then again not much surprises me from the guy that created CLINT magazine..


    Steam! Battlenet:Wisemantobes#1508
  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    http://crimsondude.tumblr.com/post/11096295373/on-writing-intent-vs-interpretation

    This was spurred because of the Starfire bullshit, but frankly I'm just sick of people saying "Oh, what I meant was ..." If you meant it then put it in the goddamn book or shut the fuck up.

  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Can I bitch about being disillusioned with a comic creator? I follow Ryan Dunlavey on Twitter. I visit him and Fred Van Lente at every NYCC. They are basically the nicest, humblest people you can hope to meet. I also enjoy their work a great deal.

    Since DC's relaunch, Dunlavey has tweeted a couple of times about how DC's comics are terrible. The first tweet in that vein started with something along the lines of "It's no surprise that DC's comics are awful..." (not a direct quote). Just now, he tweeted the following:
    In August I bought 1 DC Superhero comic (Secret Six). In September I bought 4. This month I will buy 0. #notwaitingforthetrade

    So, I guess my feeling is: why not just say "hey, I didn't enjoy DC's new comics", or even "I didn't think DC's comics were very good"? Why does there have to be such vitriol?

    Maybe I'm being a little unfair here. He's saying that between ALL the comics released, ALL the creative teams, ALL the different genres, he hasn't enjoyed a one. (Well, that's not true, he loved Wonder Woman.) I feel like some of the comics were objectively good, which is why it seems to me like Dunlavey is being unreasonably - almost demonstratively - negative here. But this is kind of hinged on a belief of mine that is not necessarily rational: just because I think some of them are good, there's no reason why he should enjoy all those comics.

    Still, it's kind of jarring to see someone I've thought of as being a really good guy fling shit at a whole group of creators in what feels like a very vindictive manner.

  • MunchMunch Registered User regular
    That doesn't seem especially vitriolic. But then, I kinda see where he's coming from.

    A lot of people are super-excited about all the new DC books. But for me, even the ones I like are just pretty good, not blow-my-socks-off amazing.

    But then, that's true of a lot of comics, from a lot of different publishers. But the DC relaunch is The Big Thing of the moment, so that's what most people are going to talk about.

  • DelduwathDelduwath Registered User regular
    Well, I guess this, specifically, is the Tweet that kinda soured my day when I saw it:
    I'm sorry but DC superhero comics have been almost universally shitty for TWENTY FIVE YEARS. People are just noticing now?!

    As I said, I might be coming from a place of "a guy I like doesn't like the thing I like", which isn't a very good reason to be upset.

    (Still, "universally shitty"? For 25 years? Come, now!)

  • StiltsStilts Registered User regular
    Delduwath wrote:
    Well, I guess this, specifically, is the Tweet that kinda soured my day when I saw it:
    I'm sorry but DC superhero comics have been almost universally shitty for TWENTY FIVE YEARS. People are just noticing now?!

    As I said, I might be coming from a place of "a guy I like doesn't like the thing I like", which isn't a very good reason to be upset.

    (Still, "universally shitty"? For 25 years? Come, now!)

    Oh, man, that quote.

    Reminds of the Alan Moore one where he basically had the same complaint.

    Which is weird, because Dunlavey's still working in the industry, right? So it's strange that he'd act as out-of-touch as Moore.

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  • SiegfriedSiegfried Registered User regular
    Guys this is comics: everybody hates everyone else, especially if you're making money on the interweb and they aren't.

    Portfolio // Twitter // Behance // Tumblr
    Kochikens wrote:
    My fav is when I can get my kiss on with other dudes.
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    Comics Journalists and commentators are super negative about a lot of things

    it bums me out because I really love the medium but everywhere you look it is nothing but people proclaiming how shitty everything is

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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    I am clearly not following the same people you are. Hell, GV is a bastion of foolish optimism compared to other boards.

  • CadeCade Eppur si muove.Registered User regular
    Blankzilla wrote:
    Comics Journalists and commentators are super negative about a lot of things

    it bums me out because I really love the medium but everywhere you look it is nothing but people proclaiming how shitty everything is

    Some times I wonder if they respond as such because they really hate such things or because they know it's going to get them hits.

  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    I am clearly not following the same people you are. Hell, GV is a bastion of foolish optimism compared to other boards.
    I mean commentators as in reviewers and some people in the industry

    fans as a whole are neutral. Some like shit, some don't. A real concrete mass opinion on something is pretty much impossible to get unless it is really bad or really good

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  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Blankzilla wrote:
    fans as a whole are neutral. Some like shit, some don't. A real concrete mass opinion on something is pretty much impossible to get unless it is really bad or really good

    Like, saaaaaaayyyy, Ultimatum?

    Gaslight on
  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    Oh wow, ABC had their Fables knock off, and now I see NBC is going to copy the same thing. That's more a bitch about how obvious they're copying the series. I know Willingham had some deal with some network but this is a little too on the nose. The NBC commercial was showing what was a clear knock off of the first Fables story, only replacing Rose Red with Red Riding Hood.

  • wirehead26wirehead26 Registered User regular
    I'm still contemplating on reading Fables. I think I'll just wait till the hardcovers come out so I don't have to invest in buying all the trades.

    I'M NOT FINISHED WITH YOU!!!
  • AriviaArivia I Like A Challenge Earth-1Registered User regular
    TexiKen wrote:
    Oh wow, ABC had their Fables knock off, and now I see NBC is going to copy the same thing. That's more a bitch about how obvious they're copying the series. I know Willingham had some deal with some network but this is a little too on the nose. The NBC commercial was showing what was a clear knock off of the first Fables story, only replacing Rose Red with Red Riding Hood.

    Are you talking about Once Upon A Time? Because there's been ads for that on the inside front cover of DC books for a few weeks now. :rotate:

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  • TexiKenTexiKen Dammit! That fish really got me!Registered User regular
    That and NBC now has a TV show called Grimm that is kind of the same premise, fairytales in the real world.

    Both shows just magically show up after Willingham's development with ABC ends.

  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Blankzilla wrote:
    I am clearly not following the same people you are. Hell, GV is a bastion of foolish optimism compared to other boards.
    I mean commentators as in reviewers and some people in the industry
    Right. The creators I follow tend to be positive or really positive about the industry and each other.

    Some of the CA guys, though ... It's hit or miss.

    Crimsondude on
  • KyouguKyougu Registered User regular
    Every so often I wiki Noh-Varr to see if anything is being done with him. I'm always dissapointed.

    I had high hopes when he joined the Avengers and it's annoying he's not being used. Such a cool character.

  • Magna InfernoMagna Inferno Registered User regular
    Kyougu wrote:
    Every so often I wiki Noh-Varr to see if anything is being done with him. I'm always dissapointed.

    I had high hopes when he joined the Avengers and it's annoying he's not being used. Such a cool character.
    Well in Avengers 17....
    He takes control of all of the iron man suits that were in stark tower to fight the nazi robots, and then creates a virus shutting down all the nazi robots.

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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Kyougu wrote:
    Every so often I wiki Noh-Varr to see if anything is being done with him. I'm always dissapointed.

    I had high hopes when he joined the Avengers and it's annoying he's not being used. Such a cool character.

    I flipped through Avengers 12 or 13 or something. The one where they send Ms. Marvel, Noh-Varr, Spider-Woman, and Hawkeye to battle The Hulk who also has the godlike powers equal to Thor.

    Guess who the issue was all about. Pthbbbt. Fuck that shit.

    Crimsondude on
  • AntimatterAntimatter Devo Was Right Gates of SteelRegistered User regular
    was it Spider-Woman

  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Of course.

    That itself wouldn't have been quite so disgusting to me if Bendis didn't also use that documentary nonsense to masturbate all over her awesomeness. You know why Thunderbolts is a great team book? Because it's about the team.

    Crimsondude on
  • Macro9Macro9 Registered User regular
    Avengers #17 has some nice Carol moments.

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  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    My point is that if that group actually worked as a team rather than it being The Spider-Woman Show with a side of Hawkeye and their impending romance that has begun with all the subtlety of, well, The Hulk then I would probably read the damn Avengers books. I'm not going to pretend that I'd be as harsh if it was all about Carol, but she was in Spider Island: The Avengers and I didn't read it because I just didn't want to read that book. I just flipped through it and gave it a pass. I just don't see the dollar value or the storytelling value of a team book that doesn't ever seem to read like one. New Avengers has a different problem, which that I don't get what the point of it is.

    Crimsondude on
  • BalefuegoBalefuego Registered User regular
    sometimes team books have spotlight issues on certain members

    shocking!

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • FuruFuru Registered User regular
    MAN REMEMBER THAT X-MEN ISSUE THAT WAS ALL ABOUT KITTY GOD WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT HOW CAN A TEAM BOOK ONLY FOCUS ON ONE CHARACTER FOR AN ISSUE I WANT THE UNCANNY X-MEN COLLECTION CD ROMS REFUNDED MARVEL I DON'T SEE THE DOLLAR VALUE

  • SolarSolar Registered User regular
    To be fair guys

    Bendis does do this. He picks a character and makes them the main thrust of the story, which would be fine except everyone else kind of feels like faceless supporting characters. It's probably my biggest complaint about his writing, when he does a team with a focus on the team like in Mighty Avengers, it works great, but when he does a team without letting everyone get their fair share then he's less good. Compare him to guys like Busiek, who could do that effortlessly.

    Also I too am not a fan of the talking heads nature of the current tie-in, I think it was a clever idea that failed because) some of the characters feel wooden and a little samey? Decent idea, but it didn't turn out. I'm sure that we'll be back to the cool stuff that happened in the first arcs though, I got my Avengers and new Avengers volume 1 trades today and re-reading them I remembered just how great Bendis is when he is allowed to write self-contained superhero arcs which let the team do what the team does.

    Seriously, New Avengers vol 1, Avengers vol 1 and the first two volumes of mighty avengers are his best avengers stories ever, and they are damn good.

  • CrimsondudeCrimsondude Registered User regular
    edited October 2011
    Balefuego wrote:
    sometimes team books have spotlight issues on certain members

    shocking!

    Well let me know when Bendis doesn't do one.

    I've already pointed out why the talking heads thing fails in storytelling. Show, don't tell.

    Crimsondude on
  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    The whole documentary approach would have been neat for a one off issues or something but it has taken up a large chunk of, what, half a dozen issues? It kills momentum and drags on forever. Its even worse when you remember bendis already did 12 issues of this with his Oral History back-ups, so it is even more unnecessary.

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  • BlankZoeBlankZoe Registered User regular
    and while I love Bendis, claiming that he doesn't give an disproportionate amount of attention to some of his favorites is kind of silly. There is a difference between a spotlight issue and what he does.

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This discussion has been closed.