i still don't understand why people have this idea that roach/hydra is a good composition
in theory, it sounds okay. long range fragile unit at the back, short range tough unit at the front. how easy is that?
but in practise, what it does is takes the mobility of the Zerg, one of their key features, throws it way the fuck out the door and tries to out-deathball Protoss.
I'm going to let all of the toss in on the secret of how roach hydra happens. No zerg wants to ever make a hydra, but they often get forced when a sufficiently spooky gateway army exists and the zerg econ and army is behind where it wants to be. Roach hydra is something that is very cost effective in the early portion of the midgame that you go to because you are trying to avoid losing right then. The tricky thing about it is that it is that as the pressure from the toss builds you basically spend all your gas trying to keep up and then your tech gets delayed and you're stuck. It's basically a product of fear and before you know it you're at 180 supply of crap you didn't want. The minigun Idra game 3 is a pretty good example of this. Minigun makes to smart decision to take a super safe 4 gate expo because he knows Idra has been going roach ling attack mode on xel naga lately. Idra attacks and it fails epicly. Now Idra is behind on drones and units compared to his ideal situation in the game. He's scared that minigun will just drop a few extra gates and roll him over. So he goes roach hydra to survive with the economy he has. Minigun keeps a sizable gateway army building, keeping the scare factor high and just slowly sprinkles in colossus. Before Idra feels super safe to tech he's way behind where he wants to be and only gets the spire when he confirms colossus are on the field because he has no other choice. The game plays out as one would expect complete with classic rage quit. Great game from minigun keeping Idra scared after the super safe expansion play.
A: We typically don't provide details about pricing until the game is closer to release. We do view Heart of the Swarm as an expansion set, so for the regions that have a standard box business model such as North America and Europe, we will price accordingly. For other regions that have alternative business models, we’ll provide details at a later date.
I am so tempted to get on the anti cheese bitching bandwagon right now.
8 pool drone spinecrawler allined on xelnaga by a random player and don't see it as early as I would normally because I haven't sent an overlord straight to the base.
I don't know what to do against mass ravens as Zerg...
roll over him with mass roach before he gets more than 4-5 ravens, I guess?
Pretty sure that roach attacks are not blocked by PDD.
while i've lost to mass raven in my beginning days, they really arent that powerful against the swarm. especially once you get a couple corruptors out, and some festors, they really aren't much of a thing.
as for dark swarm - irradiate, splash (tanks, reavers, HTs, irradiate) and melee (firebats, zealots) were the counter... if you had them around when dark swarm was out. of course, once DS was out, you could keep consuming lings to have infinite mana and be really frigging annoying.
i just assume cheese incoming, and prep my own gouda. accurate guess a large percentage of the time.
-- on edit --
i need to drone scout a lot more. i just don't feel like i get enough info on 9, and when i wait until 12, i generally just decide to put everything into econ.
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
A lot of Z do that vs P at my level. It can be easily cancelled out by P air. Also, once the observer comes out you have to be super careful.
Until then, though, it's pretty great.
I guess maybe with enough air, but VR don't kill roaches very fast. And Stargate is such a big investment that I've stopped using it early vs Zerg because they can just Mondragon you.
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
A lot of Z do that vs P at my level. It can be easily cancelled out by P air. Also, once the observer comes out you have to be super careful.
Until then, though, it's pretty great.
I guess maybe with enough air, but VR don't kill roaches very fast. And Stargate is such a big investment that I've stopped using it early vs Zerg because they can just Mondragon you.
It's more of a defensive thing, believe it or not. You FF the roaches at a choke and just start charging that VR and suddenly the Z player is like "Hmmmm, I either lose all my roaches or I run away".
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
This with upgrades is something some zergs do, but even with tunneling claws FF + obs and immortals is super strong against it. Also roaches don't scale with numbers as well due to their short range. Against say a big ball of blink you need more range and more dps per attacking surface area to be effective. What you're generally hoping for as z is something fancy like broods, infestor, and or baneling drops to deliver the blow you need and allow your roach army to clean up. If you feel safe as zerg it is easy enough to get there, but when stalkers and sentries are all up in your business it is easy to get scared into the roach ball again.
Summary for toss: Scare zergs and they'll build crap they hate.
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
This with upgrades is something some zergs do, but even with tunneling claws FF + obs and immortals is super strong against it. Also roaches don't scale with numbers as well due to their short range. Against say a big ball of blink you need more range and more dps per attacking surface area to be effective. What you're generally hoping for as z is something fancy like broods, infestor, and or baneling drops to deliver the blow you need and allow your roach army to clean up. If you feel safe as zerg it is easy enough to get there, but when stalkers and sentries are all up in your business it is easy to get scared into the roach ball again.
Summary for toss: Scare zergs and they'll build crap they hate.
lol. so true. if i see mass ( > 10) VRs, I'll drop a hydra den. otherwise infestors/queens/spores can deal, and festors have MORE HP than hydras.
i'm really kindof bitter about the hydra as a unit in sc2. it was prbably the most iconic unit in BW, and now its a piece of crap who's only job is to shoot things fast in the air. and then die quickly.
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
A lot of Z do that vs P at my level. It can be easily cancelled out by P air. Also, once the observer comes out you have to be super careful.
Until then, though, it's pretty great.
I guess maybe with enough air, but VR don't kill roaches very fast. And Stargate is such a big investment that I've stopped using it early vs Zerg because they can just Mondragon you.
It's more of a defensive thing, believe it or not. You FF the roaches at a choke and just start charging that VR and suddenly the Z player is like "Hmmmm, I either lose all my roaches or I run away".
only if burrow isnt researched, and there are no obs on field.
and usually by the time VRs are out in an effective number, so is burrow.
i've been going tunneling claws before speed first, and sometimes experimenting with double roach warrens just to get both ups quick. anyone else have success with similar?
I tend to wonder why more Z don't just go mass mass roach. FF? Burrow. Immortals? Focused down. Colossus? Don't die that fast.
A lot of Z do that vs P at my level. It can be easily cancelled out by P air. Also, once the observer comes out you have to be super careful.
Until then, though, it's pretty great.
I guess maybe with enough air, but VR don't kill roaches very fast. And Stargate is such a big investment that I've stopped using it early vs Zerg because they can just Mondragon you.
It's more of a defensive thing, believe it or not. You FF the roaches at a choke and just start charging that VR and suddenly the Z player is like "Hmmmm, I either lose all my roaches or I run away".
only if burrow isnt researched, and there are no obs on field.
and usually by the time VRs are out in an effective number, so is burrow.
This hasn't been the case in my experience.
I'm literally just talking about when I 2 base roach push against a 2-gateway starport opening. Usually they have 1-2 VRs and a sentry or two out by the time I hit and that's all they need to hold.
The smart in me says go to bed it is 2am.
The dumb in me says fuck you 3 more wins to break even on ladder.
How five game losing streaks are born
this.
---
and if you're hitting a roach push and encountering enough VRs to threaten you, you can always retreat until you have the unit/upgrade makeup to deal. It's not like the VRs are going to quickly chase you around the map....
The smart in me says go to bed it is 2am.
The dumb in me says fuck you 3 more wins to break even on ladder.
This always ruins me. If I'm tired I have learned that I just need to go to bed or quit playing ladder.
i've had to set hard limits on myself. no ladder after 1am (sometimes i break this, but i'm defiintely not laddering at 4am), and no more than 2 alcoholic beverages in a night when i ladder. Those two self-imposed rules have greatly improved my results, without having to work on macro or micro or builds. :-)
for the zergies - how do you hold a 15FE against a 6 pool? cancel the expand? run drones around until pool and lings and queen pop?
This other webcomic I read (*gasp*), raised $80K in just 7 days of asking for donations, to fund a pilot cartoon episode of their comic. That's $5K over their goal, even.
I need to maybe stop my baneling games in zvz. It puts me behind if people are doing the instant roach warren drop I keep hitting. Maybe I should just cancel and expo immediately rather than roach warren myself.
Someone tell me how to PvP, that shit still doesn't make any sense at all. Seems like 4 gate pretty much kills everything unless you are incredibly good at micro. And it also seems to depend on how all in they make their 4 gate, if their initial push if big enough they seem to win out right.
God Americans are fucking idiots, I want to assume it is just americans and not the rest of the SC2 community. Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
I keep running into people with 2k games played and they play like absolute shit but they win because I do one stupid thing, maybe if they didn't cheese every game they would have learned how to actually play the game and wouldn't have to be a 2,000 games played plat. No offense to anyone, but you don't get better cheesing.
you get better AT cheesing, which for plenty of people is more than enough as it creates a feeling of progress to win and move up the ladder/increase mmr regardless of how it's done. not saying I'm one of them, especially since I've been too scared to log back on SC2 for almost two weeks now due to lack of practice, but it's pretty easy to see why people cheese.
anyway, I 4-gate 90% of pvp because I despise the matchup, so maybe I'm the wrong person to preach/a hypocrite.
How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
3 gate robo into collosus. Then just keep him from getting up your ramp with stalkers. Whenever he tries to expand, that's pretty much your chance to just go kill him.
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eddizhereScrubber Than A SpongeScrubtown, USARegistered Userregular
Someone tell me how to PvP, that shit still doesn't make any sense at all. Seems like 4 gate pretty much kills everything unless you are incredibly good at micro. And it also seems to depend on how all in they make their 4 gate, if their initial push if big enough they seem to win out right.
God Americans are fucking idiots, I want to assume it is just americans and not the rest of the SC2 community. Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
I keep running into people with 2k games played and they play like absolute shit but they win because I do one stupid thing, maybe if they didn't cheese every game they would have learned how to actually play the game and wouldn't have to be a 2,000 games played plat. No offense to anyone, but you don't get better cheesing.
If cheese keeps beating you, learn how to beat it. Tighten up your build, smooth out bumps in your play. If you want to improve, just do it. You'll be a cheese-eating monster before the end of the month.
eddizhere on
League of Legends: Plutoniumwombat
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
3 gate robo into collosus. Then just keep him from getting up your ramp with stalkers. Whenever he tries to expand, that's pretty much your chance to just go kill him.
He expanded really early, well I should watch the replay but he had bunkers out infront when my stalker and zealot went to scout. I got a obs out and saw 6 rax after that as well. He never got gas. He just kept a stream of marines coming into my base, I wasted all my gas on sentries for the shield and force fields. I decimated the first two waves which were much larger than my army and then he just wittled down my sentries and over ran me.
Someone tell me how to PvP, that shit still doesn't make any sense at all. Seems like 4 gate pretty much kills everything unless you are incredibly good at micro. And it also seems to depend on how all in they make their 4 gate, if their initial push if big enough they seem to win out right.
God Americans are fucking idiots, I want to assume it is just americans and not the rest of the SC2 community. Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
I keep running into people with 2k games played and they play like absolute shit but they win because I do one stupid thing, maybe if they didn't cheese every game they would have learned how to actually play the game and wouldn't have to be a 2,000 games played plat. No offense to anyone, but you don't get better cheesing.
If cheese keeps beating you, learn how to beat it. Tighten up your build, smooth out bumps in your play. If you want to improve, just do it. You'll be a cheese-eating monster before the end of the month.
Yeah but a lot of the time I lose to something really really small that will takes a lot of practice to fix for every game. Some of the time it comes down to really good micro. My builds are pretty good right now, I have refined them all in yabot and ran them against benchmarks from pros and dhal.
Someone tell me how to PvP, that shit still doesn't make any sense at all. Seems like 4 gate pretty much kills everything unless you are incredibly good at micro. And it also seems to depend on how all in they make their 4 gate, if their initial push if big enough they seem to win out right.
God Americans are fucking idiots, I want to assume it is just americans and not the rest of the SC2 community. Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
I keep running into people with 2k games played and they play like absolute shit but they win because I do one stupid thing, maybe if they didn't cheese every game they would have learned how to actually play the game and wouldn't have to be a 2,000 games played plat. No offense to anyone, but you don't get better cheesing.
I used to struggle with pvp too but now it's the easiest match up for me because I just either 2gate every game or defend with cannons until I get DTs.
It all depends on the map. If the map distance is on the larger side, then put down a forge the second you're certain that they're going 4gate (chronoing the core, waiting to put down the last 3 gates). Make sure they do not scout this or they'll probably just expand. 2 cannons and a few gateway units should be enough to defend a 4gate with ease. Make sure to have a proxy pylon up for when your shrine finishes. You'll usually get your DTs in their base before they have a chance to build a robo.
If you're 2gating on a smaller map, build your gateways at the bottom of your ramp. If they respond by dropping a forge and some cannons, expand. If they don't and continue to try to 4gate, go directly for the mineral line with your first 3 zealots. The goal is to reduce their probe count as much as possible. The build does take some practice though since you'll have to know when to put down a core while you're pumping out zealots and when to retreat and build cannons while you expand. If you can take out their core in the process, all the better since stalkers will give you the most trouble while you're trying to expand. Just make sure not to engage outside your cannons.
Guek on
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Someone tell me how to PvP, that shit still doesn't make any sense at all. Seems like 4 gate pretty much kills everything unless you are incredibly good at micro. And it also seems to depend on how all in they make their 4 gate, if their initial push if big enough they seem to win out right.
I suppose I could grab up a few of my 4-gate defense replays for later, but the process is still the same as it was the last time the topic came up--the best way to stop the 4-gate if you are _not_ doing 4-gate is by forcing them to walk all the way across the map in order to attack you, or to force them to defend their own base. That means:
- 9 scout, keep it there as long as you can (drop a pylon, if you can) and confirm that it will be 4-gate
- 12 gate (not 13, not ever)
- go zealot/stalker
- pop his scout if you haven't popped his probe scout already
- make sure your base and natural are clear of proxies while making a second stalker
- tech up and keep making units while sending a probe to the watchtower and keeping the area around your base safe
You can do this with either 2gr or 3g. If you kept your initial probe scout alive you can have him be your watchtower probe. 8/10 times at our level (plat), if the guy is trying to 4-gate he will either not have dropped the pylon by the time you move out to hunt or you will see his probe coming in via watchtower sight. You go out and pop it. If he did drop a close pylon, snipe any probe with it with one stalker while your other units break it. If you keep stuffing his pylons, he's going to be forced to warp in at his base. There, you're ahead.
Now, I know that the higher-level players will say 'that won't stop a good 4-gate'. Yeah, you're right. However, platinum 4-gates are rarely good. 2gr or 3g (two gas) *can* hold 4-gate even if you're not aggressively clearing out your home ground, so why not give yourself an extra cushion?
Once you've denied any close warp-ins, the opponent will (95%, anecdotally) take one of three approaches:
1) LAMENTATIONS OF THEIR WOMEN (warp in more, send out more probes to proxy, 4 gate 4 Lyfe!). Don't worry about it--by this point you have enough units/tech to sit on your ramp and defend it easily.
2) Council tech--mass blinkers, then DTs if that fails. This happens a lot if you shut the blink down. Since you know where they are and where they have to go to attack, it's not a big deal. You'll still be ahead.
3) Welp \o/ and they fall back to expand. You scout it (of course) and expand yourself. Still ahead.
Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
Well, if you mean the 1-base 6-rax, if they contain you go one-base zealot/sentry/colossus with range while you sit in your nice safe cliff-walkable base. You do have to scout it, or see it coming at the watchtower, but remember--it's only marines. As long as you see them coming and have enough FFs, they shouldn't be able to contain you for long enough to take the whole map and will have to switch out into something else.
So I've got an internet outage today. I'm plugged into my cell phone with some sweet 3g internet. I wonder if I play SC2 will people bitch and moan about lag? Only one way to find out... 8-)
I need to maybe stop my baneling games in zvz. It puts me behind if people are doing the instant roach warren drop I keep hitting. Maybe I should just cancel and expo immediately rather than roach warren myself.
banes are great for zvz provided that you get 5 in before they get: 1 spine, 1 queen and 3 roaches. Always go for the drones, then queen, then spine with the banes. if they don't have the roaches and spines up, your slings (you did start slings before banes, right? they should finish at the exact same time if you use your first 150 gas for speed then banes nest) should clean it up.
although, i've been convinced that a straight 15FE is a really, really strong open ZvZ and am concentrating on that. anything else puts you so far on the back foot economically and larave-ly that its tough to keep up or get ahead.
My wonderful zerg bretheren pretty much 90% of zergs i see on stream play on low settings, am i missing out? Also does it actually make the game smoother?
Reasons for using low settings:
Guaranteed maximum framerate - regardless of how powerful your computer is
Less "clutter" or distracting graphics/effects
Battle losses are easier to determine when there aren't corpses lying about
With the right shader setting, it's supposedly easier to spot cloaked units
Reasons against using low settings:
It is so ugly what the hell man it's like a pastel version of Warcraft 3
Force fields are nearly impossible to see (this can be fixed by editing a file, though)
You don't get to enjoy the scenery
It's ugly, seriously, wtf man
Get the best of both worlds...
Set everything on lowest settings
Set Terrain, Textures and Models on highest settings.
It actually looks quite pleasant (you lose a lot of the fancy/realistic effects, but overall it looks nice and sharp) and you retain almost all the advantages of playing on the lower settings. Plus those three settings aren't resource intensive so your framerate stays up and everything is super smooth.
Or use a good computer, get the best of all worlds.
Seriously there is very, very little advantage to playing on lower settings unless you are just used to it. I tweaked my settings a lot of settled on slightly lower due to lag in team games.
My wonderful zerg bretheren pretty much 90% of zergs i see on stream play on low settings, am i missing out? Also does it actually make the game smoother?
Reasons for using low settings:
Guaranteed maximum framerate - regardless of how powerful your computer is
Less "clutter" or distracting graphics/effects
Battle losses are easier to determine when there aren't corpses lying about
With the right shader setting, it's supposedly easier to spot cloaked units
Reasons against using low settings:
It is so ugly what the hell man it's like a pastel version of Warcraft 3
Force fields are nearly impossible to see (this can be fixed by editing a file, though)
You don't get to enjoy the scenery
It's ugly, seriously, wtf man
Get the best of both worlds...
Set everything on lowest settings
Set Terrain, Textures and Models on highest settings.
It actually looks quite pleasant (you lose a lot of the fancy/realistic effects, but overall it looks nice and sharp) and you retain almost all the advantages of playing on the lower settings. Plus those three settings aren't resource intensive so your framerate stays up and everything is super smooth.
in addition, using lower graphics makes xsplit/your favorite streaming encoder able to process and compress much better. My power rig chokes on ultra settings when trying to stream, but if i drop to medium, its fine.
Posts
I'm going to let all of the toss in on the secret of how roach hydra happens. No zerg wants to ever make a hydra, but they often get forced when a sufficiently spooky gateway army exists and the zerg econ and army is behind where it wants to be. Roach hydra is something that is very cost effective in the early portion of the midgame that you go to because you are trying to avoid losing right then. The tricky thing about it is that it is that as the pressure from the toss builds you basically spend all your gas trying to keep up and then your tech gets delayed and you're stuck. It's basically a product of fear and before you know it you're at 180 supply of crap you didn't want. The minigun Idra game 3 is a pretty good example of this. Minigun makes to smart decision to take a super safe 4 gate expo because he knows Idra has been going roach ling attack mode on xel naga lately. Idra attacks and it fails epicly. Now Idra is behind on drones and units compared to his ideal situation in the game. He's scared that minigun will just drop a few extra gates and roll him over. So he goes roach hydra to survive with the economy he has. Minigun keeps a sizable gateway army building, keeping the scare factor high and just slowly sprinkles in colossus. Before Idra feels super safe to tech he's way behind where he wants to be and only gets the spire when he confirms colossus are on the field because he has no other choice. The game plays out as one would expect complete with classic rage quit. Great game from minigun keeping Idra scared after the super safe expansion play.
Oh cool
Roach hydra is only good for like that 2-base timing push. Otherwise I never make hydras. I use infestors instead cause they are the _boss_
B.net: Kusanku
8 pool drone spinecrawler allined on xelnaga by a random player and don't see it as early as I would normally because I haven't sent an overlord straight to the base.
while i've lost to mass raven in my beginning days, they really arent that powerful against the swarm. especially once you get a couple corruptors out, and some festors, they really aren't much of a thing.
as for dark swarm - irradiate, splash (tanks, reavers, HTs, irradiate) and melee (firebats, zealots) were the counter... if you had them around when dark swarm was out. of course, once DS was out, you could keep consuming lings to have infinite mana and be really frigging annoying.
Joe's Stream.
it's not really an all-in, cuz even if you survive, both sides can be on equal footing depending on the amount of damage done.
I've had games go from that, into 26 min long games
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
i just assume cheese incoming, and prep my own gouda. accurate guess a large percentage of the time.
-- on edit --
i need to drone scout a lot more. i just don't feel like i get enough info on 9, and when i wait until 12, i generally just decide to put everything into econ.
Joe's Stream.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
A lot of Z do that vs P at my level. It can be easily cancelled out by P air. Also, once the observer comes out you have to be super careful.
Until then, though, it's pretty great.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
I guess maybe with enough air, but VR don't kill roaches very fast. And Stargate is such a big investment that I've stopped using it early vs Zerg because they can just Mondragon you.
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
BM's out.
6 pools on Tal'Darim and, uh, doesn't fare so well against my 14 pool.
Talks about how gosu he is, BM's out.
Hrrrrm.
It's more of a defensive thing, believe it or not. You FF the roaches at a choke and just start charging that VR and suddenly the Z player is like "Hmmmm, I either lose all my roaches or I run away".
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
This with upgrades is something some zergs do, but even with tunneling claws FF + obs and immortals is super strong against it. Also roaches don't scale with numbers as well due to their short range. Against say a big ball of blink you need more range and more dps per attacking surface area to be effective. What you're generally hoping for as z is something fancy like broods, infestor, and or baneling drops to deliver the blow you need and allow your roach army to clean up. If you feel safe as zerg it is easy enough to get there, but when stalkers and sentries are all up in your business it is easy to get scared into the roach ball again.
Summary for toss: Scare zergs and they'll build crap they hate.
lol. so true. if i see mass ( > 10) VRs, I'll drop a hydra den. otherwise infestors/queens/spores can deal, and festors have MORE HP than hydras.
i'm really kindof bitter about the hydra as a unit in sc2. it was prbably the most iconic unit in BW, and now its a piece of crap who's only job is to shoot things fast in the air. and then die quickly.
Joe's Stream.
The dumb in me says fuck you 3 more wins to break even on ladder.
only if burrow isnt researched, and there are no obs on field.
and usually by the time VRs are out in an effective number, so is burrow.
i've been going tunneling claws before speed first, and sometimes experimenting with double roach warrens just to get both ups quick. anyone else have success with similar?
Joe's Stream.
This hasn't been the case in my experience.
I'm literally just talking about when I 2 base roach push against a 2-gateway starport opening. Usually they have 1-2 VRs and a sentry or two out by the time I hit and that's all they need to hold.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
How five game losing streaks are born
QEDMF xbl: PantsB G+
This always ruins me. If I'm tired I have learned that I just need to go to bed or quit playing ladder.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
this.
---
and if you're hitting a roach push and encountering enough VRs to threaten you, you can always retreat until you have the unit/upgrade makeup to deal. It's not like the VRs are going to quickly chase you around the map....
Joe's Stream.
i've had to set hard limits on myself. no ladder after 1am (sometimes i break this, but i'm defiintely not laddering at 4am), and no more than 2 alcoholic beverages in a night when i ladder. Those two self-imposed rules have greatly improved my results, without having to work on macro or micro or builds. :-)
for the zergies - how do you hold a 15FE against a 6 pool? cancel the expand? run drones around until pool and lings and queen pop?
Joe's Stream.
geez, the internet is powerful
Idra for president!
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
I need to maybe stop my baneling games in zvz. It puts me behind if people are doing the instant roach warren drop I keep hitting. Maybe I should just cancel and expo immediately rather than roach warren myself.
God Americans are fucking idiots, I want to assume it is just americans and not the rest of the SC2 community. Four games I get cheesed 4 times in a row. How do I beat the 6 rax marine pressure? No gas at all, just marines and expansions. Lots of bunkers too so I couldn't attack, then he just poured in marined and he sacced them all to kill my gas units.
I keep running into people with 2k games played and they play like absolute shit but they win because I do one stupid thing, maybe if they didn't cheese every game they would have learned how to actually play the game and wouldn't have to be a 2,000 games played plat. No offense to anyone, but you don't get better cheesing.
anyway, I 4-gate 90% of pvp because I despise the matchup, so maybe I'm the wrong person to preach/a hypocrite.
3 gate robo into collosus. Then just keep him from getting up your ramp with stalkers. Whenever he tries to expand, that's pretty much your chance to just go kill him.
If cheese keeps beating you, learn how to beat it. Tighten up your build, smooth out bumps in your play. If you want to improve, just do it. You'll be a cheese-eating monster before the end of the month.
Smite: Plutoniumwombat
He expanded really early, well I should watch the replay but he had bunkers out infront when my stalker and zealot went to scout. I got a obs out and saw 6 rax after that as well. He never got gas. He just kept a stream of marines coming into my base, I wasted all my gas on sentries for the shield and force fields. I decimated the first two waves which were much larger than my army and then he just wittled down my sentries and over ran me.
Yeah but a lot of the time I lose to something really really small that will takes a lot of practice to fix for every game. Some of the time it comes down to really good micro. My builds are pretty good right now, I have refined them all in yabot and ran them against benchmarks from pros and dhal.
I used to struggle with pvp too but now it's the easiest match up for me because I just either 2gate every game or defend with cannons until I get DTs.
It all depends on the map. If the map distance is on the larger side, then put down a forge the second you're certain that they're going 4gate (chronoing the core, waiting to put down the last 3 gates). Make sure they do not scout this or they'll probably just expand. 2 cannons and a few gateway units should be enough to defend a 4gate with ease. Make sure to have a proxy pylon up for when your shrine finishes. You'll usually get your DTs in their base before they have a chance to build a robo.
If you're 2gating on a smaller map, build your gateways at the bottom of your ramp. If they respond by dropping a forge and some cannons, expand. If they don't and continue to try to 4gate, go directly for the mineral line with your first 3 zealots. The goal is to reduce their probe count as much as possible. The build does take some practice though since you'll have to know when to put down a core while you're pumping out zealots and when to retreat and build cannons while you expand. If you can take out their core in the process, all the better since stalkers will give you the most trouble while you're trying to expand. Just make sure not to engage outside your cannons.
I suppose I could grab up a few of my 4-gate defense replays for later, but the process is still the same as it was the last time the topic came up--the best way to stop the 4-gate if you are _not_ doing 4-gate is by forcing them to walk all the way across the map in order to attack you, or to force them to defend their own base. That means:
- 9 scout, keep it there as long as you can (drop a pylon, if you can) and confirm that it will be 4-gate
- 12 gate (not 13, not ever)
- go zealot/stalker
- pop his scout if you haven't popped his probe scout already
- make sure your base and natural are clear of proxies while making a second stalker
- tech up and keep making units while sending a probe to the watchtower and keeping the area around your base safe
You can do this with either 2gr or 3g. If you kept your initial probe scout alive you can have him be your watchtower probe. 8/10 times at our level (plat), if the guy is trying to 4-gate he will either not have dropped the pylon by the time you move out to hunt or you will see his probe coming in via watchtower sight. You go out and pop it. If he did drop a close pylon, snipe any probe with it with one stalker while your other units break it. If you keep stuffing his pylons, he's going to be forced to warp in at his base. There, you're ahead.
Now, I know that the higher-level players will say 'that won't stop a good 4-gate'. Yeah, you're right. However, platinum 4-gates are rarely good. 2gr or 3g (two gas) *can* hold 4-gate even if you're not aggressively clearing out your home ground, so why not give yourself an extra cushion?
Once you've denied any close warp-ins, the opponent will (95%, anecdotally) take one of three approaches:
1) LAMENTATIONS OF THEIR WOMEN (warp in more, send out more probes to proxy, 4 gate 4 Lyfe!). Don't worry about it--by this point you have enough units/tech to sit on your ramp and defend it easily.
2) Council tech--mass blinkers, then DTs if that fails. This happens a lot if you shut the blink down. Since you know where they are and where they have to go to attack, it's not a big deal. You'll still be ahead.
3) Welp \o/ and they fall back to expand. You scout it (of course) and expand yourself. Still ahead.
Well, if you mean the 1-base 6-rax, if they contain you go one-base zealot/sentry/colossus with range while you sit in your nice safe cliff-walkable base. You do have to scout it, or see it coming at the watchtower, but remember--it's only marines. As long as you see them coming and have enough FFs, they shouldn't be able to contain you for long enough to take the whole map and will have to switch out into something else.
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
why yall night owls gotta get uppity when a man is getting his sleep
also bisu owns
SC2 NA: exoplasm.519 | PA SC2 Mumble Server | My Website | My Stream
As in, if someone drops or disconnects or just quits a game, it's considered a draw?
obviously it can be lessened to a minute or w/e for sc2.
Witty signature comment goes here...
wra
banes are great for zvz provided that you get 5 in before they get: 1 spine, 1 queen and 3 roaches. Always go for the drones, then queen, then spine with the banes. if they don't have the roaches and spines up, your slings (you did start slings before banes, right? they should finish at the exact same time if you use your first 150 gas for speed then banes nest) should clean it up.
although, i've been convinced that a straight 15FE is a really, really strong open ZvZ and am concentrating on that. anything else puts you so far on the back foot economically and larave-ly that its tough to keep up or get ahead.
Joe's Stream.
Get the best of both worlds...
Set everything on lowest settings
Set Terrain, Textures and Models on highest settings.
It actually looks quite pleasant (you lose a lot of the fancy/realistic effects, but overall it looks nice and sharp) and you retain almost all the advantages of playing on the lower settings. Plus those three settings aren't resource intensive so your framerate stays up and everything is super smooth.
Seriously there is very, very little advantage to playing on lower settings unless you are just used to it. I tweaked my settings a lot of settled on slightly lower due to lag in team games.
in addition, using lower graphics makes xsplit/your favorite streaming encoder able to process and compress much better. My power rig chokes on ultra settings when trying to stream, but if i drop to medium, its fine.
Joe's Stream.