I have nothing in particular against Ashley after Horizon, but Kaiden? I am shooting him in the fucking face straight off.
-Tal on
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AegeriTiny wee bacteriumsPlateau of LengRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Remind me, is that from when you have the renegade option (Or "Pure dick" option as I thought of it) to correct him to use "sir" in one of the dialog options? Because that was damn hilarious, I will give you that.
The tone of the emails they send you right after is my problem (one is much more reasonable than the other).
At first, after reading Kaidan's email, I thought it was a douche letter, of the type that I have actually received from boyfriends past. That is, "I don't want to date you anymore, but I am too much of a pussy to tell you that outright because you might be upset" or worse, "I don't want to date you anymore, but I want to keep your hope alive so that we can fuck casually on occasion." As a result, I was pissed. But then I remembered Kaidan from the first game. Overly cautious, taking two steps forward and one step back, practically having to be ordered (playfully) to have sex with Shep. He even says it: "You know me; I always leave a way out." Kaidan's letter is filled with that same kind of caution. He's just not the type of guy to come right out and say: "Look; I love you and I miss you. But the idea of you working with Cerberus scares the fuck out of me." He's going to dance around it and be vague because of over-cautiousness; he's leaving himself a way out.
Which isn't to say I like that personality trait of his; but it's a genuine flaw which real human beings have, and consequently makes him seem more real as a character. I think it's entirely possible that his character arc will be one of the more interesting ones if the events of ME2 cause him to grow a bit. It depends a lot on how well they write him in the third game, though.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
It depends a lot on how well they write him in the third game, though.
I go to the BioWare forums every six months or so out of morbid curiosity. Seem to have discerned that characters are assigned to individual writers at BioWare to best flesh out personalities and get those employees in their characters' heads. This seems to cause hard line schisms in the quality of characters' dialogue, backgrounds and arcs along the exact lines of the quality of those individual writers.
Was shocked to learn that almost all of the characters in recent BioWare games who I love were all written by the same woman, Sheryl Chee (Wynne and Oghren, think Isabella was a misfire due to voice actress flubbing a lot of really fun lines). Similarly, all of the characters I find boring were all written by the same man, Lukas Kristjanson (Carth, Kaiden, Aveline, Jacob).
So when I read that, there is this voice inside me that just says, prepare for disappointment. Kaiden's probably going to boring, bland, vanilla and expository because that's how his writer rolls, bucking exciting if familiar tropes for mild spins on down to earth realism in fantastic settings. Comparing Sheryl Chee to a big time Hollywood writer, I would say she's a Joss Whedon type. Lukas Kristjanson is more of a George Lucas.
Some people like that, good for them, different strokes for different folks and all that. Utterly despise James Franco, but there's people out there who think he's okay. Think avocado tastes like greasy fat in vegetable form, wife loves it.
Dharma Bum on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
On the other side...the fact that the guy who wrote Aveline is writing Kaiden has me pretty excited, especially since she was one of the better teammates in DA2.
On the other side...the fact that the guy who wrote Aveline is writing Kaiden has me pretty excited, especially since she was one of the better teammates in DA2.
Yes! Exactly what I'm talking about. Franco guacamole, right there.
Dharma Bum on
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Damn. That doesn't leave much room for hope. Thing is, I liked both Carth and Kaidan, but that's probably mostly (maybe entirely) due to Rafael Sbarge. Both Carth and Kaidan have a kind of sweet vulnerability which would come out as pathetic wuss if any other actor were playing those characters. But (for me) Sbarge sells it. It is problematic if the writer can't write anything else, though. Jacob did nothing for me, which further proves that's it Sbarge that's making those characters for me, not the writing.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
Well, I went into this a while ago...but I like the role that those characters serve...I didn't know the guy who wrote Aveline was the same one who wrote Carth, Kaiden, and Jacob. Also, Aveline's case is more interesting since it goes with what I was saying about those kind of characters needing more dialogue to flesh them out and with them saying that ME3 will have a greater focus on interparty reasons that both ME1 and ME2, it has me intrigued what they do with it.
Though I did notice the similiarities.
Edit: I added in stuff so my post is disjointed.
Dragkonias on
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
Well, the emails in this game were, if memory serves, all or mostly assigned to one writer who wasn't either of the people you mention, so there isn't likely to be that much crossover.
CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Thinking about it more, I don't think Kaidan is as vanilla as all that. I think his backstory is interesting and, as stated previously, he does have human flaws which add to making him dimensional. Just the idea that he may at any moment be going in to battle with a raging migrane (just as Tali may be going into any battle suffering an infection) makes him pretty cool. Kaidan, Carth, and Jacob all fulfill a role as "nice guy", and I think it's worth it having that role there, though others may disagree. And my biggest problem with Jacob was the fact that FemShep couldn't speak to him without flirting - and not just flirting, but annoying, giggly girl flirting - which seemed out of character to me. I probably would have liked Jacob more if Shep could have approached him as a buddy, and she as someone in need of buddies rather than romance at that moment.
Who wrote Garrus? That's someone who's writing I'd like to get more acquainted with.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I actually like Kaidan after overcoming initial residual Carth hatred, and Aveline is one of the best DA2 characters. Jacob is dull and tragically underutilized, but inoffensive. Plus, Old Spice and the prize, so that's 50/50 on that writer.
Doesn't our very own Taky write perennial favorite Mordin?
Also, does everyone write Shepard, or what? I saw a tweet by Taky about a writer conference helping him dewussify some paragon lines.
SoundsPlush on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Thinking about it more, I don't think Kaidan is as vanilla as all that. I think his backstory is interesting and, as stated previously, he does have human flaws which add to making him dimensional. Just the idea that he may at any moment be going in to battle with a raging migrane (just as Tali may be going into any battle suffering an infection) makes him pretty cool. Kaidan, Carth, and Jacob all fulfill a role as "nice guy", and I think it's worth it having that role there, though others may disagree. And my biggest problem with Jacob was the fact that FemShep couldn't speak to him without flirting - and not just flirting, but annoying, giggly girl flirting - which seemed out of character to me. I probably would have liked Jacob more if Shep could have approached him as a buddy, and she as someone in need of buddies rather than romance at that moment.
Who rote Garrus? That's someone who's writing I'd like to get more acquainted with.
patrick weekes and some others. he also wrote mordin and tali
Nuzak on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
I actually like Kaidan after overcoming initial residual Carth hatred, and Aveline is one of the best DA2 characters. Jacob is dull and tragically underutilized, but inoffensive. Plus, Old Spice and the prize, so that's 50/50 on that writer.
Doesn't our very own Taky write perennial favorite Mordin?
Also, does everyone write Shepard, or what? I saw a tweet by Taky about a writer conference helping him dewussify some paragon lines.
Apparently everyone splits Shep, which makes sense. Be odd to require multiple people swapping back and forth for every conversation.
And Taky was the lead for Mordin and Tali in two, also did a lot of Garrus (but not his missions) in dos.
According to that, Mac Walters. Dude also wrote Wrex and was head writer for ME2. Further affirms my belief that the BioWare characters I like are all written by the same four or five writers.
According to that, Mac Walters. Dude also wrote Wrex and was head writer for ME2. Further affirms my belief that the BioWare characters I like are all written by the same four or five writers.
In 1, yes.
In 2, Garrus duties were split between him and Taky due to the increased work of being promoted to lead writer.
Or to not click, and live with the shame of knowing that I was too much a coward to know.
Basil on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
edited July 2011
Man...what is with people and sweat and alien anatomy?
Dragkonias on
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited July 2011
Ha, I did some (very brief) searching on the Bioware forums as well, but all I found was this, which I have been laughing about for the last 10 minutes:
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Am I the only one that thinks Ash looks like Sandra Bullock now?
Well fuck.
Now you're not. You monster.
jamesra on
"Everything in war is very simple, but the simplest thing is difficult. The difficulties accumulate and end by producing a kind of friction. . . . This tremendous friction . . . is everywhere in contact with chance, and brings about effects that cannot be measured, just because they are largely due to chance" Carl Von Clausezwitz. (1832),
Remind me, is that from when you have the renegade option (Or "Pure dick" option as I thought of it) to correct him to use "sir" in one of the dialog options? Because that was damn hilarious, I will give you that.
The joke is that Kaidan outranks you now. Kaidan is a Staff Commander, Shepard is a Lt Commander.
Therefore, Kaidan is putting Shepards bitch ass in its place for nine million ego damage.
I am surprised Kaidan and Jacob have the same writer considering Kaidan was my favorite ME1 squadmate and Jacob is so boring (except his hilarious romance)
Ugh, Kaidan's probably been a Spectre longer than Shepard by now, too. If he learned anything from Shep's dickish lines, the self-righteousness could be smothering.
Edit: Wait, scratch that, ME3 starts up right after 2 so even if ME2 took a long time from Horizon to Arrival it's probably isn't enough. It'll be cool to see two Spectres working together on a big project for once.
How polarizing he wrote one of my favorite and least favorite ME2 characters.
Tali is just as adorable in 2 as she was in 1.
It's the obscenely creepy romance, which fits into the game like a square peg into a very very tiny round hole that gets me.
I tried to go through that romance once. I genuinely did.
Never again.
What was creepy about it? Besides the interspecies thing being kind of weird considering we don't know how humanoid Quarians are, I thought it was cute and well done. Sincerely don't think the Tali romance is creepy, but that the Talimancers are creepy. In other words, we are from the internet and we know too much.
Dharma Bum on
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
How polarizing he wrote one of my favorite and least favorite ME2 characters.
Tali is just as adorable in 2 as she was in 1.
It's the obscenely creepy romance, which fits into the game like a square peg into a very very tiny round hole that gets me.
I tried to go through that romance once. I genuinely did.
Never again.
Aegeri, I might not agree with you on a lot of stuff...but on this, we are bros.
@Dharma: Well, between the hero worship, surrogate daddy issues, and fact she could probably die from the encounter...I really don't know where to start.
It kind of pulled me out of the game. Shepard just killed how many people without asking my permission first?
I mean, I let the council die, so I probably would have done it myself. But notice a key difference between those two sentences. I sacrificed the council.
Posts
At first, after reading Kaidan's email, I thought it was a douche letter, of the type that I have actually received from boyfriends past. That is, "I don't want to date you anymore, but I am too much of a pussy to tell you that outright because you might be upset" or worse, "I don't want to date you anymore, but I want to keep your hope alive so that we can fuck casually on occasion." As a result, I was pissed. But then I remembered Kaidan from the first game. Overly cautious, taking two steps forward and one step back, practically having to be ordered (playfully) to have sex with Shep. He even says it: "You know me; I always leave a way out." Kaidan's letter is filled with that same kind of caution. He's just not the type of guy to come right out and say: "Look; I love you and I miss you. But the idea of you working with Cerberus scares the fuck out of me." He's going to dance around it and be vague because of over-cautiousness; he's leaving himself a way out.
Which isn't to say I like that personality trait of his; but it's a genuine flaw which real human beings have, and consequently makes him seem more real as a character. I think it's entirely possible that his character arc will be one of the more interesting ones if the events of ME2 cause him to grow a bit. It depends a lot on how well they write him in the third game, though.
I go to the BioWare forums every six months or so out of morbid curiosity. Seem to have discerned that characters are assigned to individual writers at BioWare to best flesh out personalities and get those employees in their characters' heads. This seems to cause hard line schisms in the quality of characters' dialogue, backgrounds and arcs along the exact lines of the quality of those individual writers.
Was shocked to learn that almost all of the characters in recent BioWare games who I love were all written by the same woman, Sheryl Chee (Wynne and Oghren, think Isabella was a misfire due to voice actress flubbing a lot of really fun lines). Similarly, all of the characters I find boring were all written by the same man, Lukas Kristjanson (Carth, Kaiden, Aveline, Jacob).
So when I read that, there is this voice inside me that just says, prepare for disappointment. Kaiden's probably going to boring, bland, vanilla and expository because that's how his writer rolls, bucking exciting if familiar tropes for mild spins on down to earth realism in fantastic settings. Comparing Sheryl Chee to a big time Hollywood writer, I would say she's a Joss Whedon type. Lukas Kristjanson is more of a George Lucas.
Some people like that, good for them, different strokes for different folks and all that. Utterly despise James Franco, but there's people out there who think he's okay. Think avocado tastes like greasy fat in vegetable form, wife loves it.
Yes! Exactly what I'm talking about. Franco guacamole, right there.
Though I did notice the similiarities.
Edit: I added in stuff so my post is disjointed.
Why I fear the ocean.
Who wrote Garrus? That's someone who's writing I'd like to get more acquainted with.
Doesn't our very own Taky write perennial favorite Mordin?
Also, does everyone write Shepard, or what? I saw a tweet by Taky about a writer conference helping him dewussify some paragon lines.
patrick weekes and some others. he also wrote mordin and tali
I actually agree with you myself, though I would say it is less "nice guy" more "normal guy".
Apparently everyone splits Shep, which makes sense. Be odd to require multiple people swapping back and forth for every conversation.
And Taky was the lead for Mordin and Tali in two, also did a lot of Garrus (but not his missions) in dos.
Why I fear the ocean.
How polarizing he wrote one of my favorite and least favorite ME2 characters.
Yeah, that's actually what I meant.
http://kotaku.com/5353339/mass-effect-2-is-more-than-what-meets-our-eyes
According to that, Mac Walters. Dude also wrote Wrex and was head writer for ME2. Further affirms my belief that the BioWare characters I like are all written by the same four or five writers.
He could do with some more screen time.
Maybe grinding a mercenary's face off on his abs or something.
Tali is just as adorable in 2 as she was in 1.
In 1, yes.
In 2, Garrus duties were split between him and Taky due to the increased work of being promoted to lead writer.
Why I fear the ocean.
http://twitter.com/#!/patsquinade/statuses/55422006669221888
http://social.bioware.com/34795/polls/1867/
http://kraehi.deviantart.com/art/Study-Turian-Oral-Anatomy-180414960
http://www.box.net/shared/43gfdsfank
Or to not click, and live with the shame of knowing that I was too much a coward to know.
Well fuck.
Now you're not. You monster.
The joke is that Kaidan outranks you now. Kaidan is a Staff Commander, Shepard is a Lt Commander.
Therefore, Kaidan is putting Shepards bitch ass in its place for nine million ego damage.
White FC: 0819 3350 1787
Corroding river flows,
A scream to escape death.
A haiku about Garrus' oral anatomy. Commence hurty brain feeling.
It's the obscenely creepy romance, which fits into the game like a square peg into a very very tiny round hole that gets me.
I tried to go through that romance once. I genuinely did.
Never again.
Edit: Wait, scratch that, ME3 starts up right after 2 so even if ME2 took a long time from Horizon to Arrival it's probably isn't enough. It'll be cool to see two Spectres working together on a big project for once.
Steam Profile
What was creepy about it? Besides the interspecies thing being kind of weird considering we don't know how humanoid Quarians are, I thought it was cute and well done. Sincerely don't think the Tali romance is creepy, but that the Talimancers are creepy. In other words, we are from the internet and we know too much.
Aegeri, I might not agree with you on a lot of stuff...but on this, we are bros.
@Dharma: Well, between the hero worship, surrogate daddy issues, and fact she could probably die from the encounter...I really don't know where to start.
I mean, I let the council die, so I probably would have done it myself. But notice a key difference between those two sentences. I sacrificed the council.