Yeah, Respecs go against my "Cash Shop is okay if cosmetic or quality of life" philosophy. Maybe charge for Respecs beyond a certain threshold, i.e. you get 2 free respecs a month, each additional beyond that is 500 zen or something.
However, I still don't like the idea of charging real cash for respecs.
+2
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Yeah, Respecs go against my "Cash Shop is okay if cosmetic or quality of life" philosophy. Maybe charge for Respecs beyond a certain threshold, i.e. you get 2 free respecs a month, each additional beyond that is 500 zen or something.
However, I still don't like the idea of charging real cash for respecs.
Counterpoint of course is that you don't have to spend real cash to get anything, if you can wait for it. I've not put any real cash into STO, but I have ships, character slots, respecs etc all paid for through the exchange, without a huge amount of effort, just consistency.
Yeah, Respecs go against my "Cash Shop is okay if cosmetic or quality of life" philosophy. Maybe charge for Respecs beyond a certain threshold, i.e. you get 2 free respecs a month, each additional beyond that is 500 zen or something.
However, I still don't like the idea of charging real cash for respecs.
Counterpoint of course is that you don't have to spend real cash to get anything, if you can wait for it. I've not put any real cash into STO, but I have ships, character slots, respecs etc all paid for through the exchange, without a huge amount of effort, just consistency.
And I've agreed with this in the past (previous posts in this thread). However, Respecs are something I still don't think should be charged unless excessive. I'd rather see the LoL model where they charge for quality of life (more "power pages" to quickly switch between power sets for different roles, new pet skins, new armor skins, weapon skins, etc.) and maybe charge for extra respecs. I've played LoL for over 3 years now and haven't dropped a penny in the game and haven't felt like I've been held back one bit by not doing so.
In the end though, I'll still play until I get bored/fed up. I'm just less likely to get fed up if I don't feel like I need an excessive amount of grinding just to do something like respec.
I was a little disappointed they didn't open up the level cap for BWE4. I was really curious to see if I could reach 60 playing at my usual pace. Sadly, they still had it locked at 50 so I ended up having to alt for most of the weekend. On the plus side, the levelling curve seems fairly smooth. With the foundry stuff especially it never felt like there were significant content gaps or required periods of grind to level up. Typically, 2 or 3 foundry missions lasting an average of between 20-30 minutes would net me a level and a half or so.
$5 = 500 Zen. You can trade astral diamonds for Zen, at a rate between 1-500. Assuming a middle of the range price, that's 125,000 Astral Diamonds, anywhere from a week to a month worth of playtime for your average player.
That's a fucking LOT for a simple respec.
They may add more ways for you to acquire Diamonds too. I read somewhere that they expect the ratio to be ~1:200 but it will fluctuate like most markets. Also the AH currency is Diamonds so if your decent with AH Baron'n you could make a sum out of that too. Edit: Also the Diamond and Zen conversion markets are player run for the most part so that is another one that can be played.
I don't like the new power system on its own, but the biggest issue I have is with respecs. It will certainly help a bit if it turns out that the zen conversion market is reasonable, but all of my experience with these kinds of exchange markets in games (spiral knights, GW2) is not very promising.
They seem to invariably follow a pattern of initially being very accessible, and then the exchange rate quickly tanks as the initial launch rush dies off lowering cash shop currency supply (fewer players buying zen, those that did buy zen bought what they wanted), while at the same time the in-game currency goes through inflation as players approach the end game. I have not played STO or CO extensively so maybe Cryptic's games buck that trend and the exchange rate will balance out to not be too insane.
I have a feeling it won't buck the trend. I think the inflation you mention will be real as the novelty of a new game wears off. Hopefully they'll add another way to get respecs; either free respecs on some periodic basis or a way to do maybe a long quest or something that offers a respec as a reward.
am0n, I can tell you haven't played PWE games before, so let me assure you now: They won't change it. PWE is the money-grubbiest F2P MMO company around. It took someone several years to level-cap in Perfect World without paying for crap. They make you pay for the most ridiculous things in CO and STO. I was actually surprised as to how little Pay to Win there was in Neverwinter, so I'm thankful for that.
am0n, I can tell you haven't played PWE games before, so let me assure you now: They won't change it. PWE is the money-grubbiest F2P MMO company around. It took someone several years to level-cap in Perfect World without paying for crap. They make you pay for the most ridiculous things in CO and STO. I was actually surprised as to how little Pay to Win there was in Neverwinter, so I'm thankful for that.
Seconded. CO and STO aren't too bad with the pay-to-win thing, either. I strongly believe that the lack of a substantial PvP system (and community) has saved the games from that fate. PWE loves to push imbalanced crap to tryhard PvPers, preferably with some kind of Zen-based gambling mechanic.
Don't get me wrong, I'm still going to play the game. I am just very aware of how bad PWE can be. So far, what I played (around 20) was great, and I am excited for launch, but I will probably spend very little if any money on a PWE game, because it's generally a rip off.
Yes, The Secret World. In which case, I haven't played a PWE game. But I also don't plan to drop any cash, so if I get the feeling that I am going to be limited enough because of that, then the game won't hold me long.
It's basically launching on the 30th. It's technically an open-beta, but they aren't wiping, so...launch.
They aren't wiping and you can give them money, but the build won't be technically sound yet and then they can have an official "launch" when sales slow down to try to get some more press and attract new customers. This is how it's done!
It's basically launching on the 30th. It's technically an open-beta, but they aren't wiping, so...launch.
They aren't wiping and you can give them money, but the build won't be technically sound yet and then they can have an official "launch" when sales slow down to try to get some more press and attract new customers. This is how it's done!
The whole way F2P games operate with their 'Betas' is so sleazy. It's sad that I don't really care any more, and have just accepted it as the way things work.
That doesn't change the fact that the game is, for all intents and purposes 'live' and not 'beta.' The argument is totally irrelevant.
@lowlander Anytime you want to answer question about why letting anyone play your game for completely free is "sleazy", just PM me so we don't waste space here.
While this is true, at least the rest can be held to some sort of standard of being "Released", You come to expect a certain quality from a released game. When something is in beta, the usual response to something not working is, "Oh well it's just in beta, it will be fixed at release" or some other such nonsense. While this generally is just people defending their game, launching a game in Beta means they can have massive downtime, huge lag issues and such and it's fine because, "it's beta".
I think the reason Neverwinter's calling it's open beta a beta is because they don't have things like tons of classes and so on. Essentially the game lacks what they view as key content and as a result is in-complete.
I don't genuinely see anything sleazy about taking money during a beta period. If you're enjoying the game even in a beta state there isn't anything wrong with giving the guys money. If you don't enjoy it because of it's beta-ness just wait till they've fleshed it out more/officially launched before you give them money or just don't give them money.
It's really hard to define what beta and launch is because the definitions for each kinda meld now-a-days. You have launched titles getting continual patching like betas and you have beta titles taking in money as if they were launched.
It certainly also works as a great defense against people pointing out flaws, but people who take 'beta is beta' to the extreme of denying any complaints validity are idiots who shouldn't be listened too regardless.
Also 'lol you disagree with me so you must be fanboi for game' is a goosey thing to say in any situation.
In other news, still trying to figure out what class I'll play. Don't want to play Cleric in case Bard is a healer when it's released. Wizard looks kinda neat but is probably a bit low on the priorities. Great weapon warrior doesn't interest me.
It's mainly between trickster rogue and guardian fighter. I suppose it'll likely come down to what my friends want to play.
Yes, Neverwinter will have three shards at launch. The shards will be named:
• Beholder
• Dragon
• Mindflayer
So you plan on merging the shards into one game world soon after launch. Do you know exactly when?
We don’t have a target date set right now; we want to allow our infrastructure and operations team an open schedule to support launch. We’ll definitely announce and give the community significant warning.
There are five classes at launch. Are there any other classes you're working on that you're not prepared to discuss yet?
We've already started work on classes six and seven. In fact, class six was really close to making it for the launch of the game.
One of the things we're trying to do with Neverwinter is to ensure that we don't just put out tons of stuff but put we put out things of high quality. It wasn't that class six wasn't good -- it's actually many of the developers' favorite right now -- but we wanted more time to focus on the launch and make it awesome. We figured that if the classes we released were really good, people would stick around to see what comes later, as opposed to if we put out a bunch of classes that are whatever, then nobody will care when we say that class 10 is coming next month.
From the datamining the 6 class should be the Scourge Warlock (it has a full list of encounter/daily/at-will powers) scheduled for the first update.....
It's really hard to define what beta and launch is because the definitions for each kinda meld now-a-days. You have launched titles getting continual patching like betas and you have beta titles taking in money as if they were launched.
Exactly. And it's not just MMOs. We have AAA single player games launching in an incomplete state, or just flat out broken and unplayable.
It's typical for AAA MMOs to launch, and then have the following weeks filled with patch notes, class changes, "balancing" and adding content that should've been working for "launch". (GW2, SWToR, anyone?). It's even common for developers to wax poetically about all the stuff they're going to add after launch in successive patches. Being F2P, B2P, or sub-based has nothing to do with it.
All Cryptic is doing is opening the floodgates to the masses, so they can break as much shit as possible. And yes, if you want to give them money, you can...but it's totally, 100% optional, and they've said there will be no more wipes past this point, so anything you "own" (as much as you own virtual stuff) is yours. But if you log in, the game is a broken, buggy, crapfest, then you can simply close the game down and wait until they declare beta over, if that's what suits you.
They've be completely open and above-board with their announcements of this, and anyone interested in Neverwinter should know exactly what's going on. There's nothing sleazy about that...sleazy would be releasing your game unfinished and broken, and charge people for it, like SWToR did. I quit that after 2 months, because I wasn't going to pay Bioware $15/month to beta test their game.
While this is true, at least the rest can be held to some sort of standard of being "Released", You come to expect a certain quality from a released game. When something is in beta, the usual response to something not working is, "Oh well it's just in beta, it will be fixed at release" or some other such nonsense. While this generally is just people defending their game, launching a game in Beta means they can have massive downtime, huge lag issues and such and it's fine because, "it's beta".
And this is a fair point to debate, and we'll see what state their "open beta" is. While I'm a fan of the game and am very excited for the 25th, if it's a pile of poop and shit is broke, I can promise you I'll make that apparent on these boards. You guys saw my response to the BWE4 powers change. The system was broke, and hopefully adjustments were made for OB.
I've changed my MMO state of mind for 2013. I'm not here to convince anyone that they must play a game, but I'm also not here to carry water for crappy MMOs.
Yes, Neverwinter will have three shards at launch. The shards will be named:
• Beholder
• Dragon
• Mindflayer
So you plan on merging the shards into one game world soon after launch. Do you know exactly when?
We don’t have a target date set right now; we want to allow our infrastructure and operations team an open schedule to support launch. We’ll definitely announce and give the community significant warning.
There are five classes at launch. Are there any other classes you're working on that you're not prepared to discuss yet?
We've already started work on classes six and seven. In fact, class six was really close to making it for the launch of the game.
One of the things we're trying to do with Neverwinter is to ensure that we don't just put out tons of stuff but put we put out things of high quality. It wasn't that class six wasn't good -- it's actually many of the developers' favorite right now -- but we wanted more time to focus on the launch and make it awesome. We figured that if the classes we released were really good, people would stick around to see what comes later, as opposed to if we put out a bunch of classes that are whatever, then nobody will care when we say that class 10 is coming next month.
From the datamining the 6 class should be the Scourge Warlock (it has a full list of encounter/daily/at-will powers) scheduled for the first update.....
Given we have shard names, are people here planning to play on the same shard? Or are people just doing their own thing?
It'll be interesting to see if later classes become premium content you have to pay for or if they remain free choices (in DDO, there are races, I don't remember if classes, that you have to pay to unlock. It's like $20 to unlock Drow.).
Edit: Answering my question:
Will it cost ZEN to unlock additional Races and Classes?
All the available races at launch will be free. We are planning to release the regular Drow for free post-launch (after at least 60 days to allow for Founder's Pack exclusivity). Note that only the regular Drow race will become available; the Menzoberranzen Renegade will always remain exclusive to Hero of the North Pack purchases.
Details regarding additional classes and races should be announced soon!
There's one class of each type in DDO that's a paid unlock (artificer, monk and... I can't remember).
I think they stated that gameplay content was supposed to be always free. It wouldn't surprise me to have the ability to buy some sorta 'starter' pack for a class that included XP boosts, some neat starting gear, a character slot and maybe a weeks early access over non payers or some such.
I notice on the Races page there are bonuses to each Race. Since Human has +2 Con, it obviously doesn't align with 4E. Are those bonuses all that the races get, or is there more (i.e. Humans get an additional feat at level 1 in 4E)?
I notice on the Races page there are bonuses to each Race. Since Human has +2 Con, it obviously doesn't align with 4E. Are those bonuses all that the races get, or is there more (i.e. Humans get an additional feat at level 1 in 4E)?
All races get a stat bonus, you can usually choose between a couple of options of where that goes, ie a standard con bonus, then pick between wis and str for the second half. Races also get a passive bonus (eg tieflings do extra damage on low hp targets as far as I remember) and a skill bonus (half-elf has a bit of bonus gold find)
I have no idea how this maps onto D&D proper, but I get the impression that Crypic have gone to capture the flavour of things rather than a perfect recreation, which explains all the complaints about "this ISN'T D&D!" I guess.
Since Human has +2 Con, it obviously doesn't align with 4E.
In the last beta it wasn't +2 Con, it was +2 to any attribute of choice and you get 3 extra feats (each 1 of 3 at specific levels). I don't think they've updated that races page in quite a while. You'll notice they don't even have the racial bonuses for dwarves listed.
Thanks for the responses. I'm not expecting a perfect recreation, was just commenting that I noticed a difference so using the PHB wasn't an option.
RE: Astral Diamonds and Zen. It sounds like the sale of Zen for Astral Diamonds will be player driven. Have they mentioned anything in the works to set a limit on the cost of Zen via Astral Diamonds? I.e. once the exchange became something like 500 Diamonds for 1 Zen the system would take over and "print" Zen to keep the exchange rate in check? Or once people stop buying Zen can we expect the exchange rate to become astronomical?
0
SnicketysnickThe Greatest Hype Man inWesterosRegistered Userregular
Thanks for the responses. I'm not expecting a perfect recreation, was just commenting that I noticed a difference so using the PHB wasn't an option.
RE: Astral Diamonds and Zen. It sounds like the sale of Zen for Astral Diamonds will be player driven. Have they mentioned anything in the works to set a limit on the cost of Zen via Astral Diamonds? I.e. once the exchange became something like 500 Diamonds for 1 Zen the system would take over and "print" Zen to keep the exchange rate in check? Or once people stop buying Zen can we expect the exchange rate to become astronomical?
There will be a maximum and minimum value that players can set on the exchange, beyond that it is purely demand and supply. I expect the fact that diamonds are an AH currency to keep it from becoming too ridiculous however, based on what happened in STO when starbases were released and dilithium actually became somewhat useful (Zen dropped to about 1/3 of it's value over a couple of months.) but that remains to be seen.
I believe the Zen exchange is set between 50 and 500. And yes, if no one's selling Zen, there's no Zen to be bought. It was like that for BWE4, if I recall correctly.
Also, the race page on the main site hasn't been updated in months and months. Humans receive the +2 to any stat bonus, just like in the 4E handbooks. All the other races stats match 4E as well, and I'm assuming we'll see Drow at +2dex and +2cha/wis like in the errata'd FR PHB.
Also, more. Jack Emmert, CEO of Cryptic has stated that they will NOT charge for classes or content. However, it's speculated that there may be "cosmetic" race options that might go on sale, or perhaps paid-for races that are consistent in power with the default classes. I imagine they could save themselves some grief by making sure the stat combinations offered by paid races are identical to the ones that can be achieved via the normal means, to avoid the usual "X make the best Wizards, because they're the only race with Y ability spread" shennanigans.
Posts
However, I still don't like the idea of charging real cash for respecs.
Counterpoint of course is that you don't have to spend real cash to get anything, if you can wait for it. I've not put any real cash into STO, but I have ships, character slots, respecs etc all paid for through the exchange, without a huge amount of effort, just consistency.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Just the fact that it's gone from having all the powers to having to spec into them kinda blows.
And I've agreed with this in the past (previous posts in this thread). However, Respecs are something I still don't think should be charged unless excessive. I'd rather see the LoL model where they charge for quality of life (more "power pages" to quickly switch between power sets for different roles, new pet skins, new armor skins, weapon skins, etc.) and maybe charge for extra respecs. I've played LoL for over 3 years now and haven't dropped a penny in the game and haven't felt like I've been held back one bit by not doing so.
In the end though, I'll still play until I get bored/fed up. I'm just less likely to get fed up if I don't feel like I need an excessive amount of grinding just to do something like respec.
They may add more ways for you to acquire Diamonds too. I read somewhere that they expect the ratio to be ~1:200 but it will fluctuate like most markets. Also the AH currency is Diamonds so if your decent with AH Baron'n you could make a sum out of that too. Edit: Also the Diamond and Zen conversion markets are player run for the most part so that is another one that can be played.
They seem to invariably follow a pattern of initially being very accessible, and then the exchange rate quickly tanks as the initial launch rush dies off lowering cash shop currency supply (fewer players buying zen, those that did buy zen bought what they wanted), while at the same time the in-game currency goes through inflation as players approach the end game. I have not played STO or CO extensively so maybe Cryptic's games buck that trend and the exchange rate will balance out to not be too insane.
Seconded. CO and STO aren't too bad with the pay-to-win thing, either. I strongly believe that the lack of a substantial PvP system (and community) has saved the games from that fate. PWE loves to push imbalanced crap to tryhard PvPers, preferably with some kind of Zen-based gambling mechanic.
!!!!▓▓▓▓▓Gravy?▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!
!!!!!!▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓!!!!!!!!!
of doom
They aren't wiping and you can give them money, but the build won't be technically sound yet and then they can have an official "launch" when sales slow down to try to get some more press and attract new customers. This is how it's done!
The whole way F2P games operate with their 'Betas' is so sleazy. It's sad that I don't really care any more, and have just accepted it as the way things work.
@lowlander Anytime you want to answer question about why letting anyone play your game for completely free is "sleazy", just PM me so we don't waste space here.
What exactly is the difference between a F2P title that is 'live' and in 'open beta with a functioning cash shop?'
Feel free to PM me if you don't understand the difference.
However, that's how it's done nowadays, especially it seems for non-AAA games.
That said, I will be definitely installing the game on the 30th to give it a go.
Steam: pandas_gota_gun
While this is true, at least the rest can be held to some sort of standard of being "Released", You come to expect a certain quality from a released game. When something is in beta, the usual response to something not working is, "Oh well it's just in beta, it will be fixed at release" or some other such nonsense. While this generally is just people defending their game, launching a game in Beta means they can have massive downtime, huge lag issues and such and it's fine because, "it's beta".
I don't genuinely see anything sleazy about taking money during a beta period. If you're enjoying the game even in a beta state there isn't anything wrong with giving the guys money. If you don't enjoy it because of it's beta-ness just wait till they've fleshed it out more/officially launched before you give them money or just don't give them money.
It's really hard to define what beta and launch is because the definitions for each kinda meld now-a-days. You have launched titles getting continual patching like betas and you have beta titles taking in money as if they were launched.
It certainly also works as a great defense against people pointing out flaws, but people who take 'beta is beta' to the extreme of denying any complaints validity are idiots who shouldn't be listened too regardless.
Also 'lol you disagree with me so you must be fanboi for game' is a goosey thing to say in any situation.
In other news, still trying to figure out what class I'll play. Don't want to play Cleric in case Bard is a healer when it's released. Wizard looks kinda neat but is probably a bit low on the priorities. Great weapon warrior doesn't interest me.
It's mainly between trickster rogue and guardian fighter. I suppose it'll likely come down to what my friends want to play.
Interview with the lead Producer
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/19/massively-exclusive-neverwinter-pre-launch-interview-part-one/
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/04/20/massively-exclusive-neverwinter-pre-launch-interview-part-two/
From the datamining the 6 class should be the Scourge Warlock (it has a full list of encounter/daily/at-will powers) scheduled for the first update.....
Exactly. And it's not just MMOs. We have AAA single player games launching in an incomplete state, or just flat out broken and unplayable.
It's typical for AAA MMOs to launch, and then have the following weeks filled with patch notes, class changes, "balancing" and adding content that should've been working for "launch". (GW2, SWToR, anyone?). It's even common for developers to wax poetically about all the stuff they're going to add after launch in successive patches. Being F2P, B2P, or sub-based has nothing to do with it.
All Cryptic is doing is opening the floodgates to the masses, so they can break as much shit as possible. And yes, if you want to give them money, you can...but it's totally, 100% optional, and they've said there will be no more wipes past this point, so anything you "own" (as much as you own virtual stuff) is yours. But if you log in, the game is a broken, buggy, crapfest, then you can simply close the game down and wait until they declare beta over, if that's what suits you.
They've be completely open and above-board with their announcements of this, and anyone interested in Neverwinter should know exactly what's going on. There's nothing sleazy about that...sleazy would be releasing your game unfinished and broken, and charge people for it, like SWToR did. I quit that after 2 months, because I wasn't going to pay Bioware $15/month to beta test their game.
And this is a fair point to debate, and we'll see what state their "open beta" is. While I'm a fan of the game and am very excited for the 25th, if it's a pile of poop and shit is broke, I can promise you I'll make that apparent on these boards. You guys saw my response to the BWE4 powers change. The system was broke, and hopefully adjustments were made for OB.
I've changed my MMO state of mind for 2013. I'm not here to convince anyone that they must play a game, but I'm also not here to carry water for crappy MMOs.
Given we have shard names, are people here planning to play on the same shard? Or are people just doing their own thing?
It'll be interesting to see if later classes become premium content you have to pay for or if they remain free choices (in DDO, there are races, I don't remember if classes, that you have to pay to unlock. It's like $20 to unlock Drow.).
Edit: Answering my question:
So sounds like classes are still TBD.
I think they stated that gameplay content was supposed to be always free. It wouldn't surprise me to have the ability to buy some sorta 'starter' pack for a class that included XP boosts, some neat starting gear, a character slot and maybe a weeks early access over non payers or some such.
http://nw.perfectworld.com/about/races
All races get a stat bonus, you can usually choose between a couple of options of where that goes, ie a standard con bonus, then pick between wis and str for the second half. Races also get a passive bonus (eg tieflings do extra damage on low hp targets as far as I remember) and a skill bonus (half-elf has a bit of bonus gold find)
I have no idea how this maps onto D&D proper, but I get the impression that Crypic have gone to capture the flavour of things rather than a perfect recreation, which explains all the complaints about "this ISN'T D&D!" I guess.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
In the last beta it wasn't +2 Con, it was +2 to any attribute of choice and you get 3 extra feats (each 1 of 3 at specific levels). I don't think they've updated that races page in quite a while. You'll notice they don't even have the racial bonuses for dwarves listed.
RE: Astral Diamonds and Zen. It sounds like the sale of Zen for Astral Diamonds will be player driven. Have they mentioned anything in the works to set a limit on the cost of Zen via Astral Diamonds? I.e. once the exchange became something like 500 Diamonds for 1 Zen the system would take over and "print" Zen to keep the exchange rate in check? Or once people stop buying Zen can we expect the exchange rate to become astronomical?
There will be a maximum and minimum value that players can set on the exchange, beyond that it is purely demand and supply. I expect the fact that diamonds are an AH currency to keep it from becoming too ridiculous however, based on what happened in STO when starbases were released and dilithium actually became somewhat useful (Zen dropped to about 1/3 of it's value over a couple of months.) but that remains to be seen.
D3 Steam #TeamTangent STO
Also, the race page on the main site hasn't been updated in months and months. Humans receive the +2 to any stat bonus, just like in the 4E handbooks. All the other races stats match 4E as well, and I'm assuming we'll see Drow at +2dex and +2cha/wis like in the errata'd FR PHB.
Also, more. Jack Emmert, CEO of Cryptic has stated that they will NOT charge for classes or content. However, it's speculated that there may be "cosmetic" race options that might go on sale, or perhaps paid-for races that are consistent in power with the default classes. I imagine they could save themselves some grief by making sure the stat combinations offered by paid races are identical to the ones that can be achieved via the normal means, to avoid the usual "X make the best Wizards, because they're the only race with Y ability spread" shennanigans.