I know I already asked this and I did get a response (thank you, Day of the Bear), but I'm doubling up on my question because The Doctor is back. Alecthar, can you dissuade or affirm my decision to snag this motherboard? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157249
I just picked up an i5-2500k for $150 and I need something to cram it into. I am probably not going to overclock right away, but I will want to in the future. I'm also not going to do Crossfire / SLI stuff right away, but I figure it is worth investing for that future possibility, which this board would let me do I think. I don't wanna spend more than $130ish, but I'd love to save as much as possible if I can get away with it. Am I going to cripple my future self and/or fail to take advantage of my awesome processor by getting something this cheap?
If you really wanna do crossfire/sli you might wanna look at boards that can do 8x/8x instead of 16x/4x, but it's gonna be a fair bit more on a decent board.
I know I already asked this and I did get a response (thank you, Day of the Bear), but I'm doubling up on my question because The Doctor is back. Alecthar, can you dissuade or affirm my decision to snag this motherboard? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157249
I just picked up an i5-2500k for $150 and I need something to cram it into. I am probably not going to overclock right away, but I will want to in the future. I'm also not going to do Crossfire / SLI stuff right away, but I figure it is worth investing for that future possibility, which this board would let me do I think. I don't wanna spend more than $130ish, but I'd love to save as much as possible if I can get away with it. Am I going to cripple my future self and/or fail to take advantage of my awesome processor by getting something this cheap?
Short Answer: I wouldn't buy that board.
Long Answer: There are a few significant issues for what you want to do. First, the CPU power system on that board is pretty unimpressive. You're definitely getting what you're paying for there. Sandy Bridge is power efficient and less demanding than previous generation processors, but there's a limit to how few power phases I'm willing to overclock on, and that one is under mine. The least I would be willing to spend on a x8/x8 Crossfire/SLI board would be the ~$130.00 for the ASRock Extreme3 Gen3. I don't have any personal experience with the board, but it's pretty much the cheapest option that looks good on paper.
However, how likely do you feel like SLI/Crossfire is for you? I had planned on it originally as well, when I built my system last year, but I just ended up not really feeling the need for 5870 #2. Depending on what you're planning to put inside this machine, the a single card might be all you'll need until you feel the need to upgrade the card entirely. Be realistic on this particular decision, it sucks to pay a price premium for a board that you end up not using the way you'd originally intended. For overclocking and a single card, the ASRock P67 Pro3 is a good option. It seems more expensive than it should be on Newegg, maybe Amazon or Tiger Direct or a Microcenter can give you a better deal on it.
I don't know what your original questions were but:
1) It depends on what you mean by cool wiring. There are some that have very solid cable management (HAF 912, NZXT Beta Evo) but they don't have rubber grommets. That's really not a big issue, unless you really like rubber grommets. Obviously they aren't as big and don't have the same capacity for holding loads of case wiring behind the tray, but the basics are present.
2) I have no clue. I'm curious as to why you're asking. The question is also somewhat ambiguous in its phrasing. The best 8x AGP video card released before PCI-E (which is distinct from PCI-X) took over isn't necessarily the best 8x AGP card that's been released. Some companies continued to make a limited line of cards for legacy interfaces even after PCI-E began dominating the marketplace. In fact, Zotac is releasing a new line of very basic (520 is the model number, I believe) cards for PCI and PCI x1 interfaces. They're intended for upgrades to OEM PCs, or for those who need additional horsepower/connectivity with weird slot constraints.
3) In what context are we talking here? I haven't put an 80mm fan in anything in a long time. Hell, I modded hot-swap hard drive cages to accept 92mm fans just so I could keep saying that (well, not just for that reason).
4) Short Answer: No, get a new PSU.
Long Answer: Maybe, but you should still get a new PSU. I lied, if you even attempt to run a 2500K/6870 on that PSU I'll come to your house and take your PC away from you, after which I will install a non-terrible PSU and bring it to a warm, loving home, as though it were an orphaned kitten, taken from a cruel and undeserving master.
Long Answer: There are a few significant issues for what you want to do. First, the CPU power system on that board is pretty unimpressive. You're definitely getting what you're paying for there. Sandy Bridge is power efficient and less demanding than previous generation processors, but there's a limit to how few power phases I'm willing to overclock on, and that one is under mine. The least I would be willing to spend on a x8/x8 Crossfire/SLI board would be the ~$130.00 for the ASRock Extreme3 Gen3. I don't have any personal experience with the board, but it's pretty much the cheapest option that looks good on paper.
However, how likely do you feel like SLI/Crossfire is for you? I had planned on it originally as well, when I built my system last year, but I just ended up not really feeling the need for 5870 #2. Depending on what you're planning to put inside this machine, the a single card might be all you'll need until you feel the need to upgrade the card entirely. Be realistic on this particular decision, it sucks to pay a price premium for a board that you end up not using the way you'd originally intended. For overclocking and a single card, the ASRock P67 Pro3 is a good option. It seems more expensive than it should be on Newegg, maybe Amazon or Tiger Direct or a Microcenter can give you a better deal on it.
Long Answer: There are a few significant issues for what you want to do. First, the CPU power system on that board is pretty unimpressive. You're definitely getting what you're paying for there. Sandy Bridge is power efficient and less demanding than previous generation processors, but there's a limit to how few power phases I'm willing to overclock on, and that one is under mine. The least I would be willing to spend on a x8/x8 Crossfire/SLI board would be the ~$130.00 for the ASRock Extreme3 Gen3. I don't have any personal experience with the board, but it's pretty much the cheapest option that looks good on paper.
However, how likely do you feel like SLI/Crossfire is for you? I had planned on it originally as well, when I built my system last year, but I just ended up not really feeling the need for 5870 #2. Depending on what you're planning to put inside this machine, the a single card might be all you'll need until you feel the need to upgrade the card entirely. Be realistic on this particular decision, it sucks to pay a price premium for a board that you end up not using the way you'd originally intended. For overclocking and a single card, the ASRock P67 Pro3 is a good option. It seems more expensive than it should be on Newegg, maybe Amazon or Tiger Direct or a Microcenter can give you a better deal on it.
That's the one. I'm not sure what the SE is supposed to designate (I've seen it in a few different boards) but whatever it is doesn't appear to be good. The slot setup on the Pro3 SE board is admittedly a bit better than on the standard Pro3 B3, but it's layout overall is worse, and it's seriously unimpressive in the VRM department.
I think that deal on Amazon is a really good option for you.
@Alecthar, what of THIS board for the i5-2500K? I mentioned it a few pages back and at least one or two others thought it looked okay. It'd be too late to not use it (as I already ordered it), but was curious if you knew anything I should be on the lookout for. Only plan a single card and no plan to OC (at least in the near future, maybe down the road a year or so if I decide I need a small boost).
Also, to the people commenting that the price premium of the 6870 over 6850 (a single card) didn't seem worth it, what of the 560 (non-TI) over the 460?
am0n on
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Fair enough. I still have a dedicated cloth somewhere around here that I used for that kind of stuff. But you're right, it can be a pain to get off.
So now I just need to pick out a monitor and I'm set.
Edit: And now I realize the monitor I linked higher up in this quote tree has built in speakers. Meh.
There are a boatload of reasonably priced, reasonably sized 1920x1080 LCD 60hz monitors that have perfectly acceptable performance characteristics in terms of response rate. Reviews (from reputable sites, preferably not Newegg customers...*shudder*) can tell you more about which ones have acceptable color reproduction and picture quality.
If you want a 120hz monitor (for 3D, or if you hate VSync like I do) you'll want to go with either Alienware's model, or ASUS'. Dell makes a really reasonably priced 1080p IPS screen, if viewing angles and color reproduction are important to you. Right now you can't get an 120hz IPS monitor, as far as I know.
I'll add in a vote for my Samsung S27A950D. It's a 27" 120hz (non-IPS) screen. It's also 3D, which, I'm almost embarrassed to admit, is kind of surprisingly fun.
I was a staunch IPS snob until my Apple Cinema Display just became too much of a pain in the ass because of the stupid mini-Displayport converter I had to use. Since I couldn't find a single 27" IPS screen locally, I went with a 120hz screen and it's kind of great. I really don't need to use VSync anymore (especially impressive, since I'm Crossfiring, which often introduces more screen tearing), which eliminates a more significant amount of input lag than I had realized, and allows for higher, smoother framerates. This particular screen has color accuracy that is handily on par with a good IPS display (seriously, it was near perfect right out of the box. I literally gave a miniscule tweak to the green and it was perfect), and better than average viewing angles (although not quite up to IPS standards).
It's a tad expensive, but hey, it's goddamn gorgeous, and it does come with the 3D glasses and all.
Once you go 120hz, you don't go back, as the kids say.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
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AlectharAlan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered Userregular
Alecthar, what of THIS board for the i5-2500K? I mentioned it a few pages back and at least one or two others thought it looked okay. It'd be too late to not use it (as I already ordered it), but was curious if you knew anything I should be on the lookout for. Only plan a single card and no plan to OC (at least in the near future, maybe down the road a year or so if I decide I need a small boost).
Also, to the people commenting that the price premium of the 6870 over 6850 (a single card) didn't seem worth it, what of the 560 (non-TI) over the 460?
I'm not sure of anything to be on the lookout for on that board, and I wish I'd been around earlier as I'm not a huge fan of that board. I've seen some okay OCing results from other individuals, not enough to say with any accuracy how good the board is, but I think you'll be okay for an overclock within reason (I'd try to stay under 4.5Ghz and avoid raising voltage if at all possible).
As for the price premium on the 6870, it's hard to say there. There's a reasonable difference in the costs of the cards (~$20 from what I'm seeing at the moment on Newegg) but the power requirements do demand another 10-15 bucks on a PSU over what you'd have to spend for a 6850. At full HD and higher resolutions, I think the 6870 is going to give you your money's worth, and the 520Wish PSU you probably got to run it is going to have more mileage for you overall than a 380-400W unit would (unless you really like lower power cards).
The price premium on the GTX 560 (non-Ti) is worthwhile over the 460 GTX (20-30 bucks). The 560 outperforms the 6870, many (if not most) models come factory OCed for additional performance, and they're competitively priced. It also shares very similar power requirements, so you don't need to factor in additional PSU capacity as an element of the price premium.
I think the move up to a GTX 560 from a GTX 460 is a better spent 30ish bucks than the move up from a 6850 to a 6870, but the latter isn't a bad move, either. It really depends on how much you're willing to spend and what kind of performance you're looking for at what resolution.
1] There are some nice Sentey and BitFenix cases for good prices that all have nice cable management. This is a good area to cross reference youtube for videos/unboxings/etc for detailed shots of how the cable routing works on specific cases.
3] I'd always opt for larger fans over 80mms. 80's sound like tiny screaming jet engines. 120/140 is a nice sweet spot for compact size and decent airflow without sounding like a rape whistle.
4] Oh my god, I'm blind.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
Alecthar, what of THIS board for the i5-2500K? I mentioned it a few pages back and at least one or two others thought it looked okay. It'd be too late to not use it (as I already ordered it), but was curious if you knew anything I should be on the lookout for. Only plan a single card and no plan to OC (at least in the near future, maybe down the road a year or so if I decide I need a small boost).
Also, to the people commenting that the price premium of the 6870 over 6850 (a single card) didn't seem worth it, what of the 560 (non-TI) over the 460?
I'm not sure of anything to be on the lookout for on that board, and I wish I'd been around earlier as I'm not a huge fan of that board. I've seen some okay OCing results from other individuals, not enough to say with any accuracy how good the board is, but I think you'll be okay for an overclock within reason (I'd try to stay under 4.5Ghz and avoid raising voltage if at all possible).
As for the price premium on the 6870, it's hard to say there. There's a reasonable difference in the costs of the cards (~$20 from what I'm seeing at the moment on Newegg) but the power requirements do demand another 10-15 bucks on a PSU over what you'd have to spend for a 6850. At full HD and higher resolutions, I think the 6870 is going to give you your money's worth, and the 520Wish PSU you probably got to run it is going to have more mileage for you overall than a 380-400W unit would (unless you really like lower power cards).
The price premium on the GTX 560 (non-Ti) is worthwhile over the 460 GTX (20-30 bucks). The 560 outperforms the 6870, many (if not most) models come factory OCed for additional performance, and they're competitively priced. It also shares very similar power requirements, so you don't need to factor in additional PSU capacity as an element of the price premium.
I think the move up to a GTX 560 from a GTX 460 is a better spent 30ish bucks than the move up from a 6850 to a 6870, but the latter isn't a bad move, either. It really depends on how much you're willing to spend and what kind of performance you're looking for at what resolution.
Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, no intent to OC right now. Down the road I may try to hit like 3.8 or 4.0 GHz, but doubt much more. I'd get a new cooler at that time.
As for the PSU, going to attempt some cost reduction here by using what I have in my old PC (Rosewill RX630-S-B). It says it has 4 12V rails limited to 20 A each, but a 50 A total combined. It's a few years old, but with a 100,000 hour lifetime, I am no where near that, so I am hoping I can squeeze a few more years out of it.
Thanks also for the heads up on the 460 vs 560. Was planning on a 560 (actually was looking at the 6870 first, but I haven't had any issues with nVidia in the past and have heard a number of complaints about Radeon driver issues recently, so decided to stick with nVidia). Any thoughts on Gigabyte as a video card manf? I was looking at THIS card, mainly as it has a rebate and two fans, for ideally better cooling with less noise. Otherwise I may go with the eVGA 560, as eVGA made my 9800 GTX (that just went, but otherwise was solid for >3 years).
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AlectharAlan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered Userregular
A list of reasons why that PSU is awful (off the top of my head):
1. Fan Control Knob: You know the company cheaped out on the PSU when...they include a potentiometer for fan control rather than extremely basic PWM control.
2. 4 Pin CPU power: And not because this is a low capacity unit, but (I'm betting) because the relevant ATX12V/EPS12V standard didn't exist when this PSU was first designed.
3. 20 Pin Power: They're still selling this? Seriously? Seriously?
4. Fuck this list: It's an ATX 1.3 PSU with a 6-pin PCI-E cable soldered on. It's too old to use for anything but legacy systems, it's cheaply built, and I don't know why Apevia is still selling this crap like it would power a system made in the last 5 years.
Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, no intent to OC right now. Down the road I may try to hit like 3.8 or 4.0 GHz, but doubt much more. I'd get a new cooler at that time.
As for the PSU, going to attempt some cost reduction here by using what I have in my old PC (Rosewill RX630-S-B). It says it has 4 12V rails limited to 20 A each, but a 50 A total combined. It's a few years old, but with a 100,000 hour lifetime, I am no where near that, so I am hoping I can squeeze a few more years out of it.
Thanks also for the heads up on the 460 vs 560. Was planning on a 560 (actually was looking at the 6870 first, but I haven't had any issues with nVidia in the past and have heard a number of complaints about Radeon driver issues recently, so decided to stick with nVidia). Any thoughts on Gigabyte as a video card manf? I was looking at THIS card, mainly as it has a rebate and two fans, for ideally better cooling with less noise. Otherwise I may go with the eVGA 560, as eVGA made my 9800 GTX (that just went, but otherwise was solid for >3 years).
Depending on the distribution of the rails, I think you'll be fine with that supply. I'm pretty sure it's an earlier version of the same platform that Rosewill's current 630W Green supply is running on (all the output numbers are the same, except for the removal of multiple OCP rails for the 12V rail, which is acceptable at a voltage like 630W.
As for vendors, I don't think you'd be going wrong either way. Gigabyte is a solid card vendor. I myself like eVGA for their warranty, but your mileage may vary.
Edit: ...and it's 6 AM which means it's time for my happy ass to go to bed. So enjoy your whatever the hell time it is where you are, folks.
Fair enough. I still have a dedicated cloth somewhere around here that I used for that kind of stuff. But you're right, it can be a pain to get off.
So now I just need to pick out a monitor and I'm set.
Edit: And now I realize the monitor I linked higher up in this quote tree has built in speakers. Meh.
There are a boatload of reasonably priced, reasonably sized 1920x1080 LCD 60hz monitors that have perfectly acceptable performance characteristics in terms of response rate. Reviews (from reputable sites, preferably not Newegg customers...*shudder*) can tell you more about which ones have acceptable color reproduction and picture quality.
If you want a 120hz monitor (for 3D, or if you hate VSync like I do) you'll want to go with either Alienware's model, or ASUS'. Dell makes a really reasonably priced 1080p IPS screen, if viewing angles and color reproduction are important to you. Right now you can't get an 120hz IPS monitor, as far as I know.
I'll add in a vote for my Samsung S27A950D. It's a 27" 120hz (non-IPS) screen. It's also 3D, which, I'm almost embarrassed to admit, is kind of surprisingly fun.
I was a staunch IPS snob until my Apple Cinema Display just became too much of a pain in the ass because of the stupid mini-Displayport converter I had to use. Since I couldn't find a single 27" IPS screen locally, I went with a 120hz screen and it's kind of great. I really don't need to use VSync anymore (especially impressive, since I'm Crossfiring, which often introduces more screen tearing), which eliminates a more significant amount of input lag than I had realized, and allows for higher, smoother framerates. This particular screen has color accuracy that is handily on par with a good IPS display (seriously, it was near perfect right out of the box. I literally gave a miniscule tweak to the green and it was perfect), and better than average viewing angles (although not quite up to IPS standards).
It's a tad expensive, but hey, it's goddamn gorgeous, and it does come with the 3D glasses and all.
Once you go 120hz, you don't go back, as the kids say.
Very nice monitor...but $700 is just a TAD out of my price range.
I was thinking more along the lines of 200-300.
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minor incidentexpert in a dying fieldnjRegistered Userregular
Then I'd suggest checking into ASUS's 24" 120hz model. It might fit the bill for you, and I've been impressed by their reviews overall.
Everything looks beautiful when you're young and pretty
I'm thinking it may be time to build a new PC. My Q9550, 5gigs DDR2, 280GTX is starting to show its age. I probably should just upgrade the graphics card, but I might just do a whole new fucking system.
Fair enough. I still have a dedicated cloth somewhere around here that I used for that kind of stuff. But you're right, it can be a pain to get off.
So now I just need to pick out a monitor and I'm set.
Edit: And now I realize the monitor I linked higher up in this quote tree has built in speakers. Meh.
There are a boatload of reasonably priced, reasonably sized 1920x1080 LCD 60hz monitors that have perfectly acceptable performance characteristics in terms of response rate. Reviews (from reputable sites, preferably not Newegg customers...*shudder*) can tell you more about which ones have acceptable color reproduction and picture quality.
If you want a 120hz monitor (for 3D, or if you hate VSync like I do) you'll want to go with either Alienware's model, or ASUS'. Dell makes a really reasonably priced 1080p IPS screen, if viewing angles and color reproduction are important to you. Right now you can't get an 120hz IPS monitor, as far as I know.
I'll add in a vote for my Samsung S27A950D. It's a 27" 120hz (non-IPS) screen. It's also 3D, which, I'm almost embarrassed to admit, is kind of surprisingly fun.
I was a staunch IPS snob until my Apple Cinema Display just became too much of a pain in the ass because of the stupid mini-Displayport converter I had to use. Since I couldn't find a single 27" IPS screen locally, I went with a 120hz screen and it's kind of great. I really don't need to use VSync anymore (especially impressive, since I'm Crossfiring, which often introduces more screen tearing), which eliminates a more significant amount of input lag than I had realized, and allows for higher, smoother framerates. This particular screen has color accuracy that is handily on par with a good IPS display (seriously, it was near perfect right out of the box. I literally gave a miniscule tweak to the green and it was perfect), and better than average viewing angles (although not quite up to IPS standards).
It's a tad expensive, but hey, it's goddamn gorgeous, and it does come with the 3D glasses and all.
Once you go 120hz, you don't go back, as the kids say.
Very nice monitor...but $700 is just a TAD out of my price range.
I was thinking more along the lines of 200-300.
Im really liking my HP ZR24w which I picked up for $250, but usually goes on sale for $300. Its a 24" IPS display with a 7ms response time which despite being longer than the TN panels is 1) drastically faster than my previous IPS display (I think it had a 16ms response time) and 2) I havent noticed any ghosting on it and Ive been playing a lot of FPSs in the past couple of weeks (about how long Ive owned it).
Just a quick note for anyone who's new to pc building, a good starting point is the OP for this thread and Alecthar's blog which is linked in the OP. I'm not having a go at anyone nor am I directing this at anyone specifically, but it would be good for people to check it out. More often than not you'll find your question has been answered there or at the very least will help you get your head around the current state of pc building and will make your questions a lot more specific and easy for people to answer
Depending on the distribution of the rails, I think you'll be fine with that supply. I'm pretty sure it's an earlier version of the same platform that Rosewill's current 630W Green supply is running on (all the output numbers are the same, except for the removal of multiple OCP rails for the 12V rail, which is acceptable at a voltage like 630W.
As for vendors, I don't think you'd be going wrong either way. Gigabyte is a solid card vendor. I myself like eVGA for their warranty, but your mileage may vary.
Edit: ...and it's 6 AM which means it's time for my happy ass to go to bed. So enjoy your whatever the hell time it is where you are, folks.
Just a quick note for anyone who's new to pc building, a good starting point is the OP for this thread and Alecthar's blog which is linked in the OP. I'm not having a go at anyone nor am I directing this at anyone specifically, but it would be good for people to check it out. More often than not you'll find your question has been answered there or at the very least will help you get your head around the current state of pc building and will make your questions a lot more specific and easy for people to answer
Definitely agree. I came into this thread and didn't know jack. My first post I just blindly asked what I should do.
After reading the OP and blog, I was able to piece together some decent specs and really only needed help with some minor tweaks.
I definitely recommend everyone check out the OP and blog.
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AlectharAlan ShoreWe're not territorial about that sort of thing, are we?Registered Userregular
Depending on the distribution of the rails, I think you'll be fine with that supply. I'm pretty sure it's an earlier version of the same platform that Rosewill's current 630W Green supply is running on (all the output numbers are the same, except for the removal of multiple OCP rails for the 12V rail, which is acceptable at a voltage like 630W.
As for vendors, I don't think you'd be going wrong either way. Gigabyte is a solid card vendor. I myself like eVGA for their warranty, but your mileage may vary.
Edit: ...and it's 6 AM which means it's time for my happy ass to go to bed. So enjoy your whatever the hell time it is where you are, folks.
I was imagining the 600 W on the +12V rail combined would be sufficient.
It's not the power available across the rails you really need to be concerned about, it's how the components are distributed on the rails. Are all the PCI-E power cables on one rail? Etc.
As for warranties, some eVGA cards come (came?) with lifetime warranties. Apparently the one you're looking at doesn't. Go Gigabyte.
If I'm not mistaken the evga cards that have an AR at the end of the model name are the lifetime warranty version, and KR/TR are the 2 year warranty version.
It's not the power available across the rails you really need to be concerned about, it's how the components are distributed on the rails. Are all the PCI-E power cables on one rail? Etc.
As for warranties, some eVGA cards come (came?) with lifetime warranties. Apparently the one you're looking at doesn't. Go Gigabyte.
Ah, I see. Yeah. Maybe I should see if my GTX has a lifetime and get a free one .
Anyway, for the PSU, the 6 pins are on separate rails, as far as I can tell. If you look at THIS photo, the two 6-pin connectors feed back to the supply independently, which I am assuming means they are separate rails, as I've seen other supply that just breaks two 6-pin connectors out on a single cable. Would that be a (somewhat) valid assumption?
If I'm not mistaken the evga cards that have an AR at the end of the model name are the lifetime warranty version, and KR/TR are the 2 year warranty version.
Interesting, because my 9800 GTX+ is 512-P3-N873-AR. Newegg's listing says lifetime. I am going to contact eVGA. Nix that. Says I need a copy of my receipt or invoice. Not a chance in hell I still have that. =P
Question: is the onboard audio "Realtek ALC892" onboard mobo's better than an aged Sound Blaster Audigy from yawn ages past? model# SB0090
Personally, I don't see much difference nowadays. I had an Audigy about 5-6 years ago. My current PC (built a little over 3 years ago) just had onboard sound. I haven't really noticed a difference. To be fair, I usually just have headphones, not 5.1, but there ya go.
Neato. I think I'm going to skip out on 3D this time around. Maybe in the next couple years I might give it a shot, but it just doesn't interest me that much to be honest.
Question: is the onboard audio "Realtek ALC892" onboard mobo's better than an aged Sound Blaster Audigy from yawn ages past? model# SB0090
Personally, I don't see much difference nowadays. I had an Audigy about 5-6 years ago. My current PC (built a little over 3 years ago) just had onboard sound. I haven't really noticed a difference. To be fair, I usually just have headphones, not 5.1, but there ya go.
I do have a 5.1 system and while Ive always been curious to see if Id see an improvement in sound quality, Ive never been $50 curious as so far everything sounds fine to me (but sounds fine compared to what!? Maybe things could be so much better and I dont even know it. Maybe Im the last caveman living in a cave while everybody else has moved to grass huts?)
Posts
I just picked up an i5-2500k for $150 and I need something to cram it into. I am probably not going to overclock right away, but I will want to in the future. I'm also not going to do Crossfire / SLI stuff right away, but I figure it is worth investing for that future possibility, which this board would let me do I think. I don't wanna spend more than $130ish, but I'd love to save as much as possible if I can get away with it. Am I going to cripple my future self and/or fail to take advantage of my awesome processor by getting something this cheap?
1) are there any ~$50 cases that have cool wiring like the 600T?
2) what was the best 8x AGP card available before PICx took over?
3) anybody use a 120/140mm fan instead of 4x80mm fans? If so which one fits bets? the 140?
4) holy poo I just found my AGED PSU: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=905179&CatId=1079 - would that power a 6870+i5 2500k? assuming it's still working up to cuff?
Short Answer: I wouldn't buy that board.
Long Answer: There are a few significant issues for what you want to do. First, the CPU power system on that board is pretty unimpressive. You're definitely getting what you're paying for there. Sandy Bridge is power efficient and less demanding than previous generation processors, but there's a limit to how few power phases I'm willing to overclock on, and that one is under mine. The least I would be willing to spend on a x8/x8 Crossfire/SLI board would be the ~$130.00 for the ASRock Extreme3 Gen3. I don't have any personal experience with the board, but it's pretty much the cheapest option that looks good on paper.
However, how likely do you feel like SLI/Crossfire is for you? I had planned on it originally as well, when I built my system last year, but I just ended up not really feeling the need for 5870 #2. Depending on what you're planning to put inside this machine, the a single card might be all you'll need until you feel the need to upgrade the card entirely. Be realistic on this particular decision, it sucks to pay a price premium for a board that you end up not using the way you'd originally intended. For overclocking and a single card, the ASRock P67 Pro3 is a good option. It seems more expensive than it should be on Newegg, maybe Amazon or Tiger Direct or a Microcenter can give you a better deal on it.
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I don't know what your original questions were but:
1) It depends on what you mean by cool wiring. There are some that have very solid cable management (HAF 912, NZXT Beta Evo) but they don't have rubber grommets. That's really not a big issue, unless you really like rubber grommets. Obviously they aren't as big and don't have the same capacity for holding loads of case wiring behind the tray, but the basics are present.
2) I have no clue. I'm curious as to why you're asking. The question is also somewhat ambiguous in its phrasing. The best 8x AGP video card released before PCI-E (which is distinct from PCI-X) took over isn't necessarily the best 8x AGP card that's been released. Some companies continued to make a limited line of cards for legacy interfaces even after PCI-E began dominating the marketplace. In fact, Zotac is releasing a new line of very basic (520 is the model number, I believe) cards for PCI and PCI x1 interfaces. They're intended for upgrades to OEM PCs, or for those who need additional horsepower/connectivity with weird slot constraints.
3) In what context are we talking here? I haven't put an 80mm fan in anything in a long time. Hell, I modded hot-swap hard drive cages to accept 92mm fans just so I could keep saying that (well, not just for that reason).
4) Short Answer: No, get a new PSU.
Long Answer: Maybe, but you should still get a new PSU. I lied, if you even attempt to run a 2500K/6870 on that PSU I'll come to your house and take your PC away from you, after which I will install a non-terrible PSU and bring it to a warm, loving home, as though it were an orphaned kitten, taken from a cruel and undeserving master.
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You're probably right about not needing the crossfire setup. Is this http://www.amazon.com/ASRock-Pro3-B3-Intel-Motherboard/dp/B004R9PCNK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1317523159&sr=8-1 the motherboard you are referring to as my good option? Just want to make sure, because technically the original thing I linked was also a P67 Pro3 (SE) and this second one is the (B3).
That's the one. I'm not sure what the SE is supposed to designate (I've seen it in a few different boards) but whatever it is doesn't appear to be good. The slot setup on the Pro3 SE board is admittedly a bit better than on the standard Pro3 B3, but it's layout overall is worse, and it's seriously unimpressive in the VRM department.
I think that deal on Amazon is a really good option for you.
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Also, to the people commenting that the price premium of the 6870 over 6850 (a single card) didn't seem worth it, what of the 560 (non-TI) over the 460?
I'll add in a vote for my Samsung S27A950D. It's a 27" 120hz (non-IPS) screen. It's also 3D, which, I'm almost embarrassed to admit, is kind of surprisingly fun.
I was a staunch IPS snob until my Apple Cinema Display just became too much of a pain in the ass because of the stupid mini-Displayport converter I had to use. Since I couldn't find a single 27" IPS screen locally, I went with a 120hz screen and it's kind of great. I really don't need to use VSync anymore (especially impressive, since I'm Crossfiring, which often introduces more screen tearing), which eliminates a more significant amount of input lag than I had realized, and allows for higher, smoother framerates. This particular screen has color accuracy that is handily on par with a good IPS display (seriously, it was near perfect right out of the box. I literally gave a miniscule tweak to the green and it was perfect), and better than average viewing angles (although not quite up to IPS standards).
It's a tad expensive, but hey, it's goddamn gorgeous, and it does come with the 3D glasses and all.
Once you go 120hz, you don't go back, as the kids say.
I'm not sure of anything to be on the lookout for on that board, and I wish I'd been around earlier as I'm not a huge fan of that board. I've seen some okay OCing results from other individuals, not enough to say with any accuracy how good the board is, but I think you'll be okay for an overclock within reason (I'd try to stay under 4.5Ghz and avoid raising voltage if at all possible).
As for the price premium on the 6870, it's hard to say there. There's a reasonable difference in the costs of the cards (~$20 from what I'm seeing at the moment on Newegg) but the power requirements do demand another 10-15 bucks on a PSU over what you'd have to spend for a 6850. At full HD and higher resolutions, I think the 6870 is going to give you your money's worth, and the 520Wish PSU you probably got to run it is going to have more mileage for you overall than a 380-400W unit would (unless you really like lower power cards).
The price premium on the GTX 560 (non-Ti) is worthwhile over the 460 GTX (20-30 bucks). The 560 outperforms the 6870, many (if not most) models come factory OCed for additional performance, and they're competitively priced. It also shares very similar power requirements, so you don't need to factor in additional PSU capacity as an element of the price premium.
I think the move up to a GTX 560 from a GTX 460 is a better spent 30ish bucks than the move up from a 6850 to a 6870, but the latter isn't a bad move, either. It really depends on how much you're willing to spend and what kind of performance you're looking for at what resolution.
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1] There are some nice Sentey and BitFenix cases for good prices that all have nice cable management. This is a good area to cross reference youtube for videos/unboxings/etc for detailed shots of how the cable routing works on specific cases.
3] I'd always opt for larger fans over 80mms. 80's sound like tiny screaming jet engines. 120/140 is a nice sweet spot for compact size and decent airflow without sounding like a rape whistle.
4] Oh my god, I'm blind.
Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, no intent to OC right now. Down the road I may try to hit like 3.8 or 4.0 GHz, but doubt much more. I'd get a new cooler at that time.
As for the PSU, going to attempt some cost reduction here by using what I have in my old PC (Rosewill RX630-S-B). It says it has 4 12V rails limited to 20 A each, but a 50 A total combined. It's a few years old, but with a 100,000 hour lifetime, I am no where near that, so I am hoping I can squeeze a few more years out of it.
Thanks also for the heads up on the 460 vs 560. Was planning on a 560 (actually was looking at the 6870 first, but I haven't had any issues with nVidia in the past and have heard a number of complaints about Radeon driver issues recently, so decided to stick with nVidia). Any thoughts on Gigabyte as a video card manf? I was looking at THIS card, mainly as it has a rebate and two fans, for ideally better cooling with less noise. Otherwise I may go with the eVGA 560, as eVGA made my 9800 GTX (that just went, but otherwise was solid for >3 years).
A list of reasons why that PSU is awful (off the top of my head):
1. Fan Control Knob: You know the company cheaped out on the PSU when...they include a potentiometer for fan control rather than extremely basic PWM control.
2. 4 Pin CPU power: And not because this is a low capacity unit, but (I'm betting) because the relevant ATX12V/EPS12V standard didn't exist when this PSU was first designed.
3. 20 Pin Power: They're still selling this? Seriously? Seriously?
4. Fuck this list: It's an ATX 1.3 PSU with a 6-pin PCI-E cable soldered on. It's too old to use for anything but legacy systems, it's cheaply built, and I don't know why Apevia is still selling this crap like it would power a system made in the last 5 years.
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Depending on the distribution of the rails, I think you'll be fine with that supply. I'm pretty sure it's an earlier version of the same platform that Rosewill's current 630W Green supply is running on (all the output numbers are the same, except for the removal of multiple OCP rails for the 12V rail, which is acceptable at a voltage like 630W.
As for vendors, I don't think you'd be going wrong either way. Gigabyte is a solid card vendor. I myself like eVGA for their warranty, but your mileage may vary.
Edit: ...and it's 6 AM which means it's time for my happy ass to go to bed. So enjoy your whatever the hell time it is where you are, folks.
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Very nice monitor...but $700 is just a TAD out of my price range.
I was thinking more along the lines of 200-300.
Im really liking my HP ZR24w which I picked up for $250, but usually goes on sale for $300. Its a 24" IPS display with a 7ms response time which despite being longer than the TN panels is 1) drastically faster than my previous IPS display (I think it had a 16ms response time) and 2) I havent noticed any ghosting on it and Ive been playing a lot of FPSs in the past couple of weeks (about how long Ive owned it).
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try again. Fail again. Fail better
bit.ly/2XQM1ke
What is different about the Gigabyte versus eVGA warranty? Both appear to be 3 years (http://rma.gigabyte-usa.com/DirectRMA/EndUser_Main.asp).
As for the supply, here are the specifications:
I was imagining the 600 W on the +12V rail combined would be sufficient.
Definitely agree. I came into this thread and didn't know jack. My first post I just blindly asked what I should do.
After reading the OP and blog, I was able to piece together some decent specs and really only needed help with some minor tweaks.
I definitely recommend everyone check out the OP and blog.
It's not the power available across the rails you really need to be concerned about, it's how the components are distributed on the rails. Are all the PCI-E power cables on one rail? Etc.
As for warranties, some eVGA cards come (came?) with lifetime warranties. Apparently the one you're looking at doesn't. Go Gigabyte.
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Are there any known sale days coming up before christmas that I should be waiting for?
example being http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130623 is two year warranty version and http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130604 is the lifetime.
Ah, I see. Yeah. Maybe I should see if my GTX has a lifetime and get a free one
Anyway, for the PSU, the 6 pins are on separate rails, as far as I can tell. If you look at THIS photo, the two 6-pin connectors feed back to the supply independently, which I am assuming means they are separate rails, as I've seen other supply that just breaks two 6-pin connectors out on a single cable. Would that be a (somewhat) valid assumption?
Interesting, because my 9800 GTX+ is 512-P3-N873-AR. Newegg's listing says lifetime. I am going to contact eVGA.
Hrm, having a hard time finding this. Only thing "asus" and 120hz came up with in a search is this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236092&Tpk=asus 120hz
http://www.google.com/m/products/catalog?q=asus+120hz+lcd&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=15837026376500064165&near=Rutherford, NJ&sa=X&ei=2HyITv-OLKTv0gHv77HLDw&ved=0CCYQ8wIwAw
Personally, I don't see much difference nowadays. I had an Audigy about 5-6 years ago. My current PC (built a little over 3 years ago) just had onboard sound. I haven't really noticed a difference. To be fair, I usually just have headphones, not 5.1, but there ya go.
Neato. I think I'm going to skip out on 3D this time around. Maybe in the next couple years I might give it a shot, but it just doesn't interest me that much to be honest.
I do have a 5.1 system and while Ive always been curious to see if Id see an improvement in sound quality, Ive never been $50 curious as so far everything sounds fine to me (but sounds fine compared to what!? Maybe things could be so much better and I dont even know it. Maybe Im the last caveman living in a cave while everybody else has moved to grass huts?)
The nice thing about monitors is that even a low/mid-range new one will look great compared to any model from 4 or 5 years ago.
What does it mean when a monitor says something like this:
What is the 1000:1 in parenthesis?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049
The dynamic ratio is the 20000:1
and the standard "contrast ratio is 1000:1
So, basically, during dark screens it's okay, otherwise it's questionable?